Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Jeff Reynolds via use-livecode]

My thoughts as well Jacqueline!

cheers,

Jeff



> On Oct 26, 2021, at 8:08 AM, use-livecode-requ...@lists.runrev.com wrote:
> 
> Thank you for this, you spoke my thoughts.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com 
> 
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com 
> 
> On October 25, 2021 8:34:04 AM "e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode" 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi folks,
>> 
>> What has it for purpose to bully a company with high educated compassioned 
>> people, maybe also fighting to survive, to critisize?
>> 
>> Most of us, cross me when I am wrong, have already a closed license.
>> 
>> Some of us had paid a lot, some less.
>> 
>> Its life.
>> 
>> Kevin, Mark, Heather and all members, Xmas is coming, all wishes in this 
>> hard times to come.

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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I have no great desire to bully any company, but I do feel
that a company that has banged on for donkey's ages about caring about
its installed base should behave itself a bit better.

I have paid quite a bit of money in my own way and my own time into 
LiveCode,

and don't really begrudge that.

On 25.10.21 19:56, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

Thank you for this, you spoke my thoughts.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 25, 2021 8:34:04 AM "e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode" 
 wrote:



Hi folks,

What has it for purpose to bully a company with high educated 
compassioned people, maybe also fighting to survive, to critisize?


Most of us, cross me when I am wrong, have already a closed license.

Some of us had paid a lot, some less.

Its life.

Kevin, Mark, Heather and all members, Xmas is coming, all wishes in 
this hard times to come.





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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Richmond via use-livecode]

An awful lot of people have "kept their lives under Bushels" because 
they are
afraid of getting the several extremely childish and foul-mouthed 
messages I have got from

you-know-who.

Richmond.

On 25.10.21 17:13, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:

On 25 Oct 2021, at 14:54, Richmond via use-livecode:
genuine criticisms

Every word!
‘Extremely intemperate’, maybe, but not without cause. Or, indeed, 
unconsidered. I had held off from commenting at all (to a number of posts in 
fact) while I considered my take on it.

Sometimes a bit of ‘genuine’ (justified) mud gets lobbed along with the 
critique. You don’t have to agree with it. If any of it was false there are 
plenty of others here that could ‘prove’ it. However, here we are.

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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Thank you for this, you spoke my thoughts.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 25, 2021 8:34:04 AM "e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode" 
 wrote:



Hi folks,

What has it for purpose to bully a company with high educated compassioned 
people, maybe also fighting to survive, to critisize?


Most of us, cross me when I am wrong, have already a closed license.

Some of us had paid a lot, some less.

Its life.

Kevin, Mark, Heather and all members, Xmas is coming, all wishes in this 
hard times to come.





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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are submitted.
And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal rights
for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that don't
recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are not
the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.

On Mon, Oct 25, 2021 at 10:14 AM Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > On 25 Oct 2021, at 14:54, Richmond via use-livecode:
>
> > genuine criticisms
>
> Every word!
> ‘Extremely intemperate’, maybe, but not without cause. Or, indeed,
> unconsidered. I had held off from commenting at all (to a number of posts
> in fact) while I considered my take on it.
>
> Sometimes a bit of ‘genuine’ (justified) mud gets lobbed along with the
> critique. You don’t have to agree with it. If any of it was false there are
> plenty of others here that could ‘prove’ it. However, here we are.
>
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>


-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

> On 25 Oct 2021, at 14:54, Richmond via use-livecode:

> genuine criticisms

Every word! 
‘Extremely intemperate’, maybe, but not without cause. Or, indeed, 
unconsidered. I had held off from commenting at all (to a number of posts in 
fact) while I considered my take on it. 

Sometimes a bit of ‘genuine’ (justified) mud gets lobbed along with the 
critique. You don’t have to agree with it. If any of it was false there are 
plenty of others here that could ‘prove’ it. However, here we are.

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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Richmond via use-livecode]

His post was certainly extremely intemperate.

That does NOT mean it does not contain genuine criticisms.

On 24.10.21 4:51, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

If Sean doesn’t like the product, he is certainly within his rights to cancel 
his subscription and cut off all associations.

Sent from my iPhone


On Oct 23, 2021, at 09:47, Richmond via use-livecode 
 wrote:

I am revisiting Sean Cole's posting as some valuable feedback seems
to have got mixed up with some ridiculous claims:

1. "my opinion counts for nothing here"  Well, Yes, there is a slight feeling 
re that as there has been vrry little direct
feedback from LiveCode central.

2. "purchasing a 2-year licence for HTML5 with the promise that it would get 
fixed"

Yup: not very good at keeping promises.

3. "You guys put me in hospital more than once." Possibly one of the most 
preposterous accusations I have
ever seen in my life. The reason someone ended up in hospital was because they 
were ill: and it would be a tough,
tough call to demonstrate a causal effect from a piece of software to one's 
physical/mental state.

Actually a very cheap shot indeed which, of course, makes me want to go "Poo 
Poo" to the other points he made.

4. "Asking people to fill out a survey will only cause more of your users to
become disappointed when 'their' extremely valid top 10 bugs get lost in
the flood of other people's, probably only based on how many remember the
same matching ones. When 'theirs' don't get fixed, it will only feed their
despondency."

I tend to agree with that one.

5. messed up script editor: what is wrong with it? It certainly would be nice 
to know as I have used LiveCode's script
editors for about 21 years with no obviosu problems at all.

6. messed up dictionary: not obviously: just the odd one or 2 things that might 
be explained better.

7. messed up property inspector: not that I am aware of.

Certainly in any type of attempt at constructive criticism those last 3 points 
need to be elaborated on extensively.

8. "use your product for real-world stuff yourself and try to do it without having 
to use workarounds!"

Well: there's a blanket statement to out blanket statements.

Is my Devawriter Pro (for wonky academics and bonkers yoga heads to type stuff 
in dead Indian languages)
real-world stuff? Are the ESL-for-kiddies content reinforcement and delivery 
standalones real-world stuff?
They both are insofar as they are used constantly: especially the latter, by 
children who, oddly enough,
seem to be getting better at the aspects of English those standalones help them 
reinforce.

I suspect Sean Cole may turn his nose up at us "bottom-feeders" who use 
LiveCode for what are, really, bloody
basic, humdrum requirements: but they do make one hell of a difference to the 
learning experiences of a lot
of children.

I am sorry to unearth this, but I do feel that this 'situation' that has arisen 
has to be examined fully for some good
to come out of it.

Richmond.

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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[e.beugelaar--- via use-livecode]

Hi folks,

What has it for purpose to bully a company with high educated compassioned 
people, maybe also fighting to survive, to critisize?

Most of us, cross me when I am wrong, have already a closed license.

Some of us had paid a lot, some less.

Its life.

Kevin, Mark, Heather and all members, Xmas is coming, all wishes in this hard 
times to come.

Best wishes,

Erik


Met vriendelijke groet,
Erik Beugelaar

From: use-livecode  on behalf of Pi 
Digital via use-livecode 
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 11:41:25 AM
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: Pi Digital 
Subject: Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

I would if I could, Bob.

I seriously would if I could!

Sigh.

Sean


> On 24 Oct 2021, at 02:51, Bob Sneidar wrote:
>
> If Sean doesn’t like the product, he is certainly within his rights to 
> cancel his subscription and cut off all associations.
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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

I would if I could, Bob. 

I seriously would if I could!

Sigh. 

Sean


> On 24 Oct 2021, at 02:51, Bob Sneidar wrote:
> 
> If Sean doesn’t like the product, he is certainly within his rights to 
> cancel his subscription and cut off all associations. 
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Re: ‘Mud slinging’ versus ‘genuine criticism’

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Thanks, Richmond Mathewson, for your review from your perspective. 

I’m sure anyone else here not a ‘bottom feeder’ could enlighten you to the 
points I made to better ‘educate’ you. I’m too ‘ill’ to respond myself. 

Sigh

Sean


> On 23 Oct 2021, at 17:45, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> some ridiculous claims …
> 
> I suspect Sean Cole may turn his nose up at us "bottom-feeders" who use 
> LiveCode for what are, really, bloody basic, humdrum requirements: but they 
> do make one hell of a difference to the learning experiences of a lot of 
> children.
> 
> I am sorry to unearth this, but I do feel that this 'situation' that has 
> arisen has to be examined fully for some good
> to come out of it.
> 
> Richmond.
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Re: Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

If Sean doesn’t like the product, he is certainly within his rights to cancel 
his subscription and cut off all associations. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 23, 2021, at 09:47, Richmond via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am revisiting Sean Cole's posting as some valuable feedback seems
> to have got mixed up with some ridiculous claims:
> 
> 1. "my opinion counts for nothing here"  Well, Yes, there is a slight feeling 
> re that as there has been vrry little direct
> feedback from LiveCode central.
> 
> 2. "purchasing a 2-year licence for HTML5 with the promise that it would get 
> fixed"
> 
> Yup: not very good at keeping promises.
> 
> 3. "You guys put me in hospital more than once." Possibly one of the most 
> preposterous accusations I have
> ever seen in my life. The reason someone ended up in hospital was because 
> they were ill: and it would be a tough,
> tough call to demonstrate a causal effect from a piece of software to one's 
> physical/mental state.
> 
> Actually a very cheap shot indeed which, of course, makes me want to go "Poo 
> Poo" to the other points he made.
> 
> 4. "Asking people to fill out a survey will only cause more of your users to
> become disappointed when 'their' extremely valid top 10 bugs get lost in
> the flood of other people's, probably only based on how many remember the
> same matching ones. When 'theirs' don't get fixed, it will only feed their
> despondency."
> 
> I tend to agree with that one.
> 
> 5. messed up script editor: what is wrong with it? It certainly would be nice 
> to know as I have used LiveCode's script
> editors for about 21 years with no obviosu problems at all.
> 
> 6. messed up dictionary: not obviously: just the odd one or 2 things that 
> might be explained better.
> 
> 7. messed up property inspector: not that I am aware of.
> 
> Certainly in any type of attempt at constructive criticism those last 3 
> points need to be elaborated on extensively.
> 
> 8. "use your product for real-world stuff yourself and try to do it without 
> having to use workarounds!"
> 
> Well: there's a blanket statement to out blanket statements.
> 
> Is my Devawriter Pro (for wonky academics and bonkers yoga heads to type 
> stuff in dead Indian languages)
> real-world stuff? Are the ESL-for-kiddies content reinforcement and delivery 
> standalones real-world stuff?
> They both are insofar as they are used constantly: especially the latter, by 
> children who, oddly enough,
> seem to be getting better at the aspects of English those standalones help 
> them reinforce.
> 
> I suspect Sean Cole may turn his nose up at us "bottom-feeders" who use 
> LiveCode for what are, really, bloody
> basic, humdrum requirements: but they do make one hell of a difference to the 
> learning experiences of a lot
> of children.
> 
> I am sorry to unearth this, but I do feel that this 'situation' that has 
> arisen has to be examined fully for some good
> to come out of it.
> 
> Richmond.
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Mud slinging versus genuine criticism

[Richmond via use-livecode]

I am revisiting Sean Cole's posting as some valuable feedback seems
to have got mixed up with some ridiculous claims:

1. "my opinion counts for nothing here"  Well, Yes, there is a slight 
feeling re that as there has been vrry little direct

feedback from LiveCode central.

2. "purchasing a 2-year licence for HTML5 with the promise that it would 
get fixed"


Yup: not very good at keeping promises.

3. "You guys put me in hospital more than once." Possibly one of the 
most preposterous accusations I have
ever seen in my life. The reason someone ended up in hospital was 
because they were ill: and it would be a tough,
tough call to demonstrate a causal effect from a piece of software to 
one's physical/mental state.


Actually a very cheap shot indeed which, of course, makes me want to go 
"Poo Poo" to the other points he made.


4. "Asking people to fill out a survey will only cause more of your users to
become disappointed when 'their' extremely valid top 10 bugs get lost in
the flood of other people's, probably only based on how many remember the
same matching ones. When 'theirs' don't get fixed, it will only feed their
despondency."

I tend to agree with that one.

5. messed up script editor: what is wrong with it? It certainly would be 
nice to know as I have used LiveCode's script

editors for about 21 years with no obviosu problems at all.

6. messed up dictionary: not obviously: just the odd one or 2 things 
that might be explained better.


7. messed up property inspector: not that I am aware of.

Certainly in any type of attempt at constructive criticism those last 3 
points need to be elaborated on extensively.


8. "use your product for real-world stuff yourself and try to do it 
without having to use workarounds!"


Well: there's a blanket statement to out blanket statements.

Is my Devawriter Pro (for wonky academics and bonkers yoga heads to type 
stuff in dead Indian languages)
real-world stuff? Are the ESL-for-kiddies content reinforcement and 
delivery standalones real-world stuff?
They both are insofar as they are used constantly: especially the 
latter, by children who, oddly enough,
seem to be getting better at the aspects of English those standalones 
help them reinforce.


I suspect Sean Cole may turn his nose up at us "bottom-feeders" who use 
LiveCode for what are, really, bloody
basic, humdrum requirements: but they do make one hell of a difference 
to the learning experiences of a lot

of children.

I am sorry to unearth this, but I do feel that this 'situation' that has 
arisen has to be examined fully for some good

to come out of it.

Richmond.

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