Re: Number of items

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

richmond rattled,

> Not as obvious as it seems as with MacOS you can reset many function keys, for
> some odd reason you cannot assign another key to do the "fN" thing.

Sure you can:  settings->keyboard->modifier keys, and you can mix and match 
capslock, control, escape, command, and fn to the others and escape (I don’t 
know if you can map the physical escape key for keyboards that have one)

The first thing I do on a new computer or reinstall is fix the key mislabeled 
capslock to its proper control function.  I then map the silly little key to 
the right of fn to serve as a typeable escape.
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Re: Number of items

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

peter provided,

> And there is also ᠁ ⋰ ⋱ ︙ ᠁   the last being the MONGOLIAN ELLIPSIS.

The latter being useful for separating mountain ponies  . . .

> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 01:52, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:

>> It’s all in the Character Viewer, on the Mac -- Control/Command/Space.
> 

> OMG! That's wonderful. Where's this shortcut been all my life :D


Waiting for apple to add a control key to the keyboard?

:_)

Shift-cmd-3 and -4 actually date to the original 128k Mac, in which one 
captured the window, and the other the whole screen.

-1 and -2 seem to have disappeared a few years ago.  Originally they ejected 
the floppies, and then cd/dvd, but now they’re disconnected.

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Re: Number of items

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Now THAT is cool. 

Bob S


> On Oct 25, 2021, at 17:52 , Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Not many know about the ellipsis character:
> 
> HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS …
> 
> And there is also ᠁ ⋰ ⋱ ︙ ᠁   the last being the MONGOLIAN ELLIPSIS.
> 
> It’s all in the Character Viewer, on the Mac -- Control/Command/Space.
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On Oct 25, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> One. The three dots are an ellipsis, not a period :-) :-)
>> 
>> On 25/10/2021 20:32, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>>> On 10/25/21 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
 
 On 25/10/2021 17:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
> Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a 
> sentence. The delimiter basically "belongs" to the string preceeding it.
> 
 So I wonder how many sentences this reply might contain ...
>>> 
>>> Three. :P
>>> 
>>> Technically speaking, of course.
>>> 
>> 
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Re: Number of items

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Not as obvious as it seems as with MacOS you can reset many function 
keys, for

some odd reason you cannot assign another key to do the "fN" thing.

On 26.10.21 17:10, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote:

Richmond wrote:


Not unless you have a fN key to start with.


Obvs :D
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Re: Number of items

[Sean Cole via use-livecode]

Richmond wrote:

> Not unless you have a fN key to start with.
>

Obvs :D
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Re: Number of items

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Not unless you have a fN key to start with.

On 26.10.21 15:59, Sean Cole via use-livecode wrote:

Apparently, you can get to it with fn-E as well.

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 13:57, Sean Cole  wrote:


On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 01:52, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


It’s all in the Character Viewer, on the Mac -- Control/Command/Space.

Peter


OMG! That's wonderful. Where's this shortcut been all my life :D


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Re: Number of items

[Sean Cole via use-livecode]

Apparently, you can get to it with fn-E as well.

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 13:57, Sean Cole  wrote:

> On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 01:52, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> It’s all in the Character Viewer, on the Mac -- Control/Command/Space.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>
> OMG! That's wonderful. Where's this shortcut been all my life :D
>
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Re: Number of items

[Sean Cole via use-livecode]

On Tue, 26 Oct 2021 at 01:52, Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> It’s all in the Character Viewer, on the Mac -- Control/Command/Space.
>
> Peter
>

OMG! That's wonderful. Where's this shortcut been all my life :D
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Re: Number of items

[Eraklis Pittas via use-livecode]

A feature is a documented bug 

On Mon, 25 Oct 2021 at 16:07, Pi Digital via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> It’s not a bug. It’s a feature. And a welcome one, too. We just have to
> handle it differently to the way it is for CSVs and DB records.
>
> Sean
>
>
> > On 25 Oct 2021, at 15:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 10/25/2021 10:46 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
> >> I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
> >> I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are
> submitted.
> >> And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal
> rights
> >> for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that
> don't
> >> recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are
> not
> >> the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.
> >
> > I didn't realize that. What bug number is it in the Livecode Quality
> Center Bugzilla database? I'd like to CC myself on the bug.
> >
> > ___
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-- 
KIndest Regards Lagi
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Re: Number of items

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Not many know about the ellipsis character:

HORIZONTAL ELLIPSIS …

And there is also ᠁ ⋰ ⋱ ︙ ᠁   the last being the MONGOLIAN ELLIPSIS.

It’s all in the Character Viewer, on the Mac -- Control/Command/Space.

Peter

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> One. The three dots are an ellipsis, not a period :-) :-)
> 
> On 25/10/2021 20:32, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> On 10/25/21 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 25/10/2021 17:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
 Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a 
 sentence. The delimiter basically "belongs" to the string preceeding it.
 
>>> So I wonder how many sentences this reply might contain ...
>> 
>> Three. :P
>> 
>> Technically speaking, of course.
>> 
> 
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Re: Number of items

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

One. The three dots are an ellipsis, not a period :-) :-)

On 25/10/2021 20:32, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

On 10/25/21 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:


On 25/10/2021 17:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a 
sentence. The delimiter basically "belongs" to the string preceeding 
it.



So I wonder how many sentences this reply might contain ...


Three. :P

Technically speaking, of course.



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Re: Number of items

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I like my NULL trick. :-)

Bob S


> On Oct 25, 2021, at 15:07 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/25/2021 5:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> Found it:
>> 
>>  
> 
> Thank you! It continues to make more sense to ignore trailing delimiters 
> however initially non-intuitive it may seem.
> 
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Re: Number of items

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 10/25/2021 5:03 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

Found it:
 



Thank you! It continues to make more sense to ignore trailing delimiters 
however initially non-intuitive it may seem.


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Re: Number of items

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Found it:


Turns out what I was looking for was in the forums, not this list.

On 10/25/21 11:43 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a sentence. The delimiter 
basically "belongs" to the string preceeding it.


There was a long discussion here quite a while ago about this and Mark Waddingham posted some 
interesting and difficult issues that would arise if the rule were changed. If I can find that 
discussion I'll post a link.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 25, 2021 10:24:54 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode  
wrote:



Why is it a feature? (I'm sorry, I am sure it has been explained before
in these lists)

I searched the Quality Center and could find no open bug entry for this.
As LC 9.6.3 still gives and item count of ",1" as 2 and an item count of
"1," as 1 that this is indeed the expected behavior?!?

I would have personally expected them both to be 2, but perhaps these is
a reason trailing empty items are not counted?




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AW: Number of items

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Ok Bob, Mark, and Jacqueline,

Now I know. I hope I remember.

I just checked the Dictionary entry for "number" and "item" and the 
"Item" entry actual states:


/Note:/In LiveCode, if the last character of a string is the 
itemDelimiter, then this character is ignored by theitemkeyword. For 
example the last item of the string "1,2,3," is "3" (assuming comma is 
the itemDelimiter)


Sorry, I should have just read the Dictionary!

Paul Dupuis
Researchware


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Re: Number of items

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 10/25/21 1:00 PM, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:


On 25/10/2021 17:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a sentence. The delimiter 
basically "belongs" to the string preceeding it.



So I wonder how many sentences this reply might contain ...


Three. :P

Technically speaking, of course.

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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Number of items

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 25/10/2021 17:43, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a 
sentence. The delimiter basically "belongs" to the string preceeding it.



So I wonder how many sentences this reply might contain ...

:-)

Alex.


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Re: Number of items

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Delimiters signify the end of a unit, like a period at the end of a 
sentence. The delimiter basically "belongs" to the string preceeding it.


There was a long discussion here quite a while ago about this and Mark 
Waddingham posted some interesting and difficult issues that would arise if 
the rule were changed. If I can find that discussion I'll post a link.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On October 25, 2021 10:24:54 AM Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Why is it a feature? (I'm sorry, I am sure it has been explained before
in these lists)

I searched the Quality Center and could find no open bug entry for this.
As LC 9.6.3 still gives and item count of ",1" as 2 and an item count of
"1," as 1 that this is indeed the expected behavior?!?

I would have personally expected them both to be 2, but perhaps these is
a reason trailing empty items are not counted?




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Re: Number of items

[Mark Waddingham via use-livecode]

On 2021-10-25 16:22, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

Why is it a feature? (I'm sorry, I am sure it has been explained
before in these lists)


Its a fundamental rule in the way xTalk string lists work.

It is neither a bug nor a feature - it is a rule - much like xTalks are 
one-based rather than zero-based for indexing.



I searched the Quality Center and could find no open bug entry for
this. As LC 9.6.3 still gives and item count of ",1" as 2 and an item
count of "1," as 1 that this is indeed the expected behavior?!?


There is no bug about it because it is not a bug.


I would have personally expected them both to be 2, but perhaps these
is a reason trailing empty items are not counted?


Trailing delimiters in LiveCode (xTalk) string lists are ignored. If you 
want to express an empty last item in a string list you have to append 
an extra delimiter. i.e.


  the number of items in "" == 0
  the number of items in "," == 1
  the number of items in ",," == 2

Warmest Regards,

Mark.

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LiveCode: Everyone can create apps

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Re: Number of items

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

As I understand it, a blank end line is not counted as a line. It must have 
something in the line. Think of it like this. A list of lines is really a 
return delimited list. If there is only one line, and that line does not 
contain a return delimiter, it is still a line. The delimiter is really a 
delimiter for the next line. 

The same holds true for items, otherwise you could claim that items are being 
treated differently from lines, and call THAT a bug. You could take a 5 item 
string, replace comma with cr, and then have a 4 line string. 

It seems to make better sense if you think of the delimiter as being there for 
the next thing and not for the thing before. If there is no next thing then... 
well there is no next thing. 

If you REALLY want to have empty items, try putting NULL into them. 

put NULL & comma & NULL into tTest;put the number of items of tTest

Yields 2

put empty & comma & empty into tTest;put the number of items of tTest

Yields 1

Bob S


> On Oct 25, 2021, at 08:22 , Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Why is it a feature? (I'm sorry, I am sure it has been explained before in 
> these lists)
> 
> I searched the Quality Center and could find no open bug entry for this. As 
> LC 9.6.3 still gives and item count of ",1" as 2 and an item count of "1," as 
> 1 that this is indeed the expected behavior?!?
> 
> I would have personally expected them both to be 2, but perhaps these is a 
> reason trailing empty items are not counted?


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Re: Number of items

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Why is it a feature? (I'm sorry, I am sure it has been explained before 
in these lists)


I searched the Quality Center and could find no open bug entry for this. 
As LC 9.6.3 still gives and item count of ",1" as 2 and an item count of 
"1," as 1 that this is indeed the expected behavior?!?


I would have personally expected them both to be 2, but perhaps these is 
a reason trailing empty items are not counted?



On 10/25/2021 11:06 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode wrote:

It’s not a bug. It’s a feature. And a welcome one, too. We just have to handle 
it differently to the way it is for CSVs and DB records.

Sean



On 25 Oct 2021, at 15:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
 wrote:

On 10/25/2021 10:46 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are submitted.
And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal rights
for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that don't
recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are not
the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.

I didn't realize that. What bug number is it in the Livecode Quality Center 
Bugzilla database? I'd like to CC myself on the bug.

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Re: Number of items

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

It is indeed a feature, and just requires remembering how LC (and HC before it, 
from the beginning) treat how items are counted.

Craig

> On Oct 25, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It’s not a bug. It’s a feature. And a welcome one, too. We just have to 
> handle it differently to the way it is for CSVs and DB records. 
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
>> On 25 Oct 2021, at 15:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 10/25/2021 10:46 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
>>> I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
>>> I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are submitted.
>>> And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal rights
>>> for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that don't
>>> recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are not
>>> the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.
>> 
>> I didn't realize that. What bug number is it in the Livecode Quality Center 
>> Bugzilla database? I'd like to CC myself on the bug.
>> 
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Re: Number of items

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

It’s not a bug. It’s a feature. And a welcome one, too. We just have to handle 
it differently to the way it is for CSVs and DB records. 

Sean


> On 25 Oct 2021, at 15:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 10/25/2021 10:46 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:
>> I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
>> I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are submitted.
>> And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal rights
>> for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that don't
>> recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are not
>> the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.
> 
> I didn't realize that. What bug number is it in the Livecode Quality Center 
> Bugzilla database? I'd like to CC myself on the bug.
> 
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Re: Number of items

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

On 10/25/2021 10:46 AM, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote:

I'm glad we have these sorts of discussions out in the open.
I hope there is not an appeal coming based on the lists that are submitted.
And even though this horse is dead, maybe some day we can have equal rights
for all items, especially the poor, empty ones. For those of you that don't
recall, the number of items in ",1" and the number of items in "1," are not
the same. Database records and CSV's continue to object.


I didn't realize that. What bug number is it in the Livecode Quality 
Center Bugzilla database? I'd like to CC myself on the bug.


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