Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-12 Thread JB via use-livecode
I am still on macOS 10.11.6 so I don’t know much about what is happening but I was wondering if you transferred the file with a secure connection like CyberDuck does the download bit get changed? Another question that might be a work around is if you zip the file and then zip the zip of that

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-12 Thread Keith Martin via use-livecode
On 11 Sep 2019, at 16:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote: At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now If a past OS has been downloaded through one's standard Mac/me/iCloud account in the past it can be downloaded and installed again. It can also be

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-12 Thread Phil Jimmieson via use-livecode
From experiments that I’ve done, it’s the downloading bit which flags an App as needing special treatment by the OS. If you build it and transfer it via a USB stick (or CD), then it’s ok. It’s when you download it - either as the app itself, or as a zipped version. I think the zip file is

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-12 Thread Richmond via use-livecode
I wonder if downloading-qua-downloading is the problem? Possibly downloading some sort of compressed file (.zip, .7zx, other type) and then decompressing it on the target machine will allow installation? Richmond. On 12.09.19 8:05, Rick Harrison via use-livecode wrote: That behavior does

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-12 Thread Richmond via use-livecode
That sounds as if "things" are possible. I have run off a very simple standalone (one card, one button, one field) and uploaded it to Dropbox, and would be most grateful if you can try to get it to run. https://www.dropbox.com/s/518kxvml2si3xic/ISLAND.zip?dl=0 I am currently running Mojave as

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Rick Harrison via use-livecode
That behavior does not sound any different from what we have experienced in older versions of macOS such as High Sierra. Perhaps it won’t get worse until later versions of Catalina? Thanks for the test Marty! Rick > On Sep 11, 2019, at 8:43 PM, Marty Knapp via use-livecode > wrote: > > Just

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Marty Knapp via use-livecode
Just tried my previous tests with non-signed, non-notarized apps with the Catalina beta 8 (just released today) with the same result as beta 7. I also zipped an app, transferred it to the Catalina machine via thumb drive, then unzipped and ran without complaint or warning. So it would appear

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Marty Knapp via use-livecode
I just tried 2 apps that I built in LC 9.5 business. I have Catalina beta 7 installed. Neither app was code signed or notarized. I moved the apps to that machine via a thumb drive and did not zip compress either one. They both launched on Catalina beta without complaint. Next I zipped one of

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Just a couple of comments: On 9/11/19 12:57 AM, Peter Reid via use-livecode wrote: 5. The $100 charge each year is inexcusable. Basically Apple are saying "We'll make any app development more tedious unless you pay up $100 every year.". Even the development of the simplest app, to be used as

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Richmond via use-livecode
The most telling test is if anyone who has a Catalina beta installed runs off a Macintosh standalone and sees if they can run it themselves: wether from the Open Source version or one of the commercial versions. Richmond. On 11.09.19 18:21, Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode wrote:

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode
Keeping a clear look at things... That $100/yr does include "beta OS releases, advanced app capabilities, technical support, and tools to develop, test, and distribute apps." At one time one could get past OSs, but I don't think it is the case now. And you could go down to the test warehouse

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode
On Wed, 11 Sep 2019 at 09:25, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Would it be feasible for these ad hoc apps to be built using the Community > Edition?I have an idea...Richard GaskinFourth World Systems > ___ >

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread JJS via use-livecode
The ratio of money asked from devs is also of course: (considered mobile) Mobile Operating SystemsPercentage Market Share Mobile Operating System Market Share Worldwide - August 2019 Android 76.23% iOS 22.17% KaiOS 0.59% Unknown 0.26% Samsung 0.21% Windows

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-11 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Would it be feasible for these ad hoc apps to be built using the Community Edition?I have an idea...Richard GaskinFourth World Systems ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-10 Thread Peter Reid via use-livecode
I've been reading the responses to my original posting with interest. My thoughts are as follows: 1. Matthias Rebbe's tutorial and helper stack seem to be excellent and appear to be the best way of complying with Apple's requirements, for now. Let's hope that Matthias can maintain this as

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-09 Thread kee nethery via use-livecode
I wrote an article on this process for MacOS and it took some time for me to figure out all the steps. Once documented, doesn’t really take that long to do. Apple doesn’t judge the contents of personally signed apps and the $99 per year is not a burden for me. I know a bunch of users who

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-09 Thread Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode
Thank you for your work in this. I like the idea of identity signing of files, documents, programs, messages and links. I was all PGP at one time. I am making a shortlist of Electronic Lab Notebooks, and automated time-stamping and easy page/paragraph signing are important features. I

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-09 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
I'm on your side on this one. OS developers are not getting sued by end users because they get malware. What is the impetus for all this?? Apple long ago had a policy tthat if they introduced a new way of doing something, the user could revert to the way it used to work. This ought to be a

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-09 Thread Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
If I want to develop an small OSX (or Windows) app for my wife to help her keep track of some hobby related items, I should not have to code sign or notarize it for OSX or Windows or, honestly, any platform. Every OS should provide a way that the USER is still in control of their OS and can

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread Dar Scott Consulting via use-livecode
Maybe developers should have been pushing for code signing some time ago—on their own terms. > On Sep 8, 2019, at 8:10 AM, Rick Harrison via use-livecode > wrote: > > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their > nonsense. > More developers will rebel and leave

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread Antti Ilola via use-livecode
And then, when everybody use Linux, where do you think the bad guys is going to put their efforts. Antti su 8.9.2019 klo 17.11 Rick Harrison via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> kirjoitti: > That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their > nonsense. >

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I don't think any of us are happy about the contortions we increasingly need to go through to get apps into the app stores or out to the public. Keeping up with Apple is even harder for the LC team. But Apple sells privacy and safety as its primary distinctive feature. There are instances

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread Richmond via use-livecode
This reminds me of the arguments that the British government have used to set up a surveillance society. Richmond. On 8.09.19 17:37, prothero--- via use-livecode wrote: Folks, With respect, I agree with Paul’s comments. We live in an online environment where we are faced, on a daily basis,

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread Richmond via use-livecode
At which point, if Apple and Microsoft have any brain at all, they'll wake up and Linux will, finally, achieve what has always been one of its reasons for being: to stop the smugness of a duopoly that has dominated the computer world far, far too long. Richmond. On 8.09.19 17:10, Rick Harrison

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread prothero--- via use-livecode
Folks, With respect, I agree with Paul’s comments. We live in an online environment where we are faced, on a daily basis, with criminal activity. The worst of it can cost us financially, but even major players like Amazon record our behaviors and choices, for their profit, with disclosure

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread Rick Harrison via use-livecode
That may be exactly what happens next if the big guys continue with their nonsense. More developers will rebel and leave their platforms altogether in favor of Linux. Just my 2 cents. :-) Rick > On Sep 8, 2019, at 2:55 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode > wrote: > > If you want a

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-08 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Paul Dupuis wrote:> I see no one refuting Peter's original > claims that Catalina is a ste towards > the end of ad-hoc and in-house > development for the Apple platform > and I would agree.Me too, FWIW, but I don't think the problem is Apple.What really changed since the olden days is that the

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread Paul Dupuis via use-livecode
Everyone is signing the praises of tools to jump through Apple's hoops, but I see no one refuting Peter's original claims that Catalina is a ste towards the end of ad-hoc and in-house development for the Apple platform and I would agree. Apple's goal for OSX is to get to the same place as

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread Pi Digital via use-livecode
I have an idea on how to get a single ‘Capsule’ app notorized that can open and run any stack file as a standalone. It does mean that the stack won’t be compiled quite like a true standalone but does allow users to open any stack on their desktops. Perhaps there’s a way we could even get it to

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread scott--- via use-livecode
I just wanted to chime in on singing the praises for Matthias’ tool as well. It has made code-signing and notarizing Mac applications so easy and fast for me. And it has a feature that allows it to work with the third party tool DropDMG (which I already used)… so even more amazing! A huge gift

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
I will add that this situation is not unique to LC, it will apply to any environment that creates a compiled app.  I still think that LC will be an optimal choice given the ease of development - especially with the way Mac apps are packaged (everything can be inside the .app folder). Thanks,

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I can't recommend Matthias' tool enough, it can do all Apple requires with a click. Notarization does not go through Apple's approval process, no human ever sees it, it's entirely automated. It simply adds a token that proves you are a verified developer in good standing. Once that token is

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread Colin Holgate via use-livecode
One part you say seems incorrect. I’ve been running Catalina full time since the first developer build, and I’ve seen various combinations of problems. For the one you’re talking about, where right-click Open still doesn’t open the app, in the security control panel where it used to say open

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Hi Peter, We are all pretty miffed about the overly restrictive nature of developing native apps. These is a lot of time wasted on the ever changing hoops one must jump through just to develop in-house or small audience apps. Not only is it pushing away developers from developing for specific

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread JJS via use-livecode
use for free (should it be written) Op 7-9-2019 om 13:53 schreef JJS via use-livecode: I forgot, it was Mattias Rebbe who wrote the notarizing app which you can you fro free, aint that great! He also made an excellent lesson which is on lessons.livecode.com Op 7-9-2019 om 13:36 schreef JJS

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread JJS via use-livecode
I forgot, it was Mattias Rebbe who wrote the notarizing app which you can you fro free, aint that great! He also made an excellent lesson which is on lessons.livecode.com Op 7-9-2019 om 13:36 schreef JJS via use-livecode: Well said. There is help on this. On of the list members will jump

Re: OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread JJS via use-livecode
Well said. There is help on this. On of the list members will jump in i guess and he made an excellent tool which will help you out notarizing and all other stuff Apple tries to kill you with. If you already have a Apple dev account (only 100$ per year) which gives you the ability to help

OT: Catalina - the end of ad hoc & in-house development?

2019-09-07 Thread Peter Reid via use-livecode
I've been using LiveCode as my development platform since 1999. Practically all the apps I've developed have been for in-house use by my family, friends and customers - all very low numbers of copies distributed in an informal manner. I've no interest in App Store distribution and the users of