Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
Sign me up :) -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
Hmmm. That is problematic. I think the author must have had some intimate experience of devops. On 20 April 2018 at 20:35, Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > On 04/20/2018 12:10 PM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote: > >> Yes - I quite distinctly remember having this very discussion with Mark a >> few years back regarding the Bus Factor. Was clear at that time that a >> centralised backup was infeasible. >> >> I’m glad to say that new additions to the protocol have made possible >> decentralised solutions to this conundrum. >> >> Unfortunately no one so far has been able to discern the meaning of this >> new architecture. Se we’re building an AI solution to manage the >> complexity >> for us. >> > > Long out of print (55 years now), but... > > http://folk.uio.no/knuthe/kuriosa/draper.pdf > > -- > Mark Wieder > ahsoftw...@gmail.com > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
On 04/20/2018 12:10 PM, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote: Yes - I quite distinctly remember having this very discussion with Mark a few years back regarding the Bus Factor. Was clear at that time that a centralised backup was infeasible. I’m glad to say that new additions to the protocol have made possible decentralised solutions to this conundrum. Unfortunately no one so far has been able to discern the meaning of this new architecture. Se we’re building an AI solution to manage the complexity for us. Long out of print (55 years now), but... http://folk.uio.no/knuthe/kuriosa/draper.pdf -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
Yes - I quite distinctly remember having this very discussion with Mark a few years back regarding the Bus Factor. Was clear at that time that a centralised backup was infeasible. I’m glad to say that new additions to the protocol have made possible decentralised solutions to this conundrum. Unfortunately no one so far has been able to discern the meaning of this new architecture. Se we’re building an AI solution to manage the complexity for us. On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 19:59, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I believe the team tried to get a backup of Mark's brain a while back, > but they ran out of disk space and the computer crashed. They had to > settle for copyrighting him and providing an extended health plan. > > On 4/20/18 1:06 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: > > I was only proposing a possible framework. Obviously, Mark's brain is so > complex (perhaps convoluted might be a better term) that the project may > require millions of years and the 2nd most powerful computer ever devised > in any space time to accomplish this task. Knowing the frustration of those > who have attempted this before, it may be a good idea to start with asking > ourselves, what is the question? > > > > Bob S > > > > > >> On Apr 20, 2018, at 09:07 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >> you forgot the most important part of that, the dumbItDownForUsN00bz() > >> function > >> > >> On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Good idea. > >>> > >>> Or a podcast. Yes that is what we should do. I’ll send you an invite > Mark > >>> and describe the topic + projects that will go on the show. > >>> > >>> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > >>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >>> > What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge > Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate > Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own > right) > >>> as > well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the > latter > has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting > >>> started > on the first two. > > Bob S > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com > HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
I believe the team tried to get a backup of Mark's brain a while back, but they ran out of disk space and the computer crashed. They had to settle for copyrighting him and providing an extended health plan. On 4/20/18 1:06 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote: I was only proposing a possible framework. Obviously, Mark's brain is so complex (perhaps convoluted might be a better term) that the project may require millions of years and the 2nd most powerful computer ever devised in any space time to accomplish this task. Knowing the frustration of those who have attempted this before, it may be a good idea to start with asking ourselves, what is the question? Bob S On Apr 20, 2018, at 09:07 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: you forgot the most important part of that, the dumbItDownForUsN00bz() function On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: Good idea. Or a podcast. Yes that is what we should do. I’ll send you an invite Mark and describe the topic + projects that will go on the show. On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own right) as well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the latter has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting started on the first two. Bob S ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
Unfortunately I just had a discussion with our CFO. The business model requires us to sound more impressive than we really are. So we will be mentioning a lot of buzz words, with casual references to Distributed Ledger Technology wherever possible. Marketing has decided it would be good to do in Latin. On 20 April 2018 at 17:07, Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > you forgot the most important part of that, the dumbItDownForUsN00bz() > function > > On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Good idea. > > > > Or a podcast. Yes that is what we should do. I’ll send you an invite > Mark > > and describe the topic + projects that will go on the show. > > > > On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge > > > Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate > > > Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own > right) > > as > > > well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the > latter > > > has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting > > started > > > on the first two. > > > > > > Bob S > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
I was only proposing a possible framework. Obviously, Mark's brain is so complex (perhaps convoluted might be a better term) that the project may require millions of years and the 2nd most powerful computer ever devised in any space time to accomplish this task. Knowing the frustration of those who have attempted this before, it may be a good idea to start with asking ourselves, what is the question? Bob S > On Apr 20, 2018, at 09:07 , Mike Kerner via use-livecode > wrote: > > you forgot the most important part of that, the dumbItDownForUsN00bz() > function > > On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > >> Good idea. >> >> Or a podcast. Yes that is what we should do. I’ll send you an invite Mark >> and describe the topic + projects that will go on the show. >> >> On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >>> What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge >>> Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate >>> Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own right) >> as >>> well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the latter >>> has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting >> started >>> on the first two. >>> >>> Bob S ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
you forgot the most important part of that, the dumbItDownForUsN00bz() function On Fri, Apr 20, 2018 at 10:50 AM, David Bovill via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Good idea. > > Or a podcast. Yes that is what we should do. I’ll send you an invite Mark > and describe the topic + projects that will go on the show. > > On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge > > Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate > > Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own right) > as > > well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the latter > > has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting > started > > on the first two. > > > > Bob S > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
Good idea. Or a podcast. Yes that is what we should do. I’ll send you an invite Mark and describe the topic + projects that will go on the show. On Fri, 20 Apr 2018 at 15:46, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge > Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate > Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own right) as > well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the latter > has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting started > on the first two. > > Bob S > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
What is needed for this is for someone to write a Waddingham Knowledge Extractor API, which would probably involve wtiting an intermediate Waddingham Syntax Distiller (and advanced kind of DSL in it's own right) as well as a mind wave to digital conversion device. To my mind, the latter has not been invented yet, but nothing is stopping you from getting started on the first two. Bob S > On Apr 20, 2018, at 24:50 , Mark Waddingham via use-livecode > wrote: > >> Mark any chance of sending the gift of your knowledge our way? > > I could ramble on at length ( not that I'm prone to that, of course ;) ) > about designing programming languages, interpreters, compilers, parsers, > tokenisers, name analysis, abstract syntax trees, concrete syntax trees, code > generation and a great many other things... > > However, I suspect something more focused would be more helpful and for that > I really need a greater idea of what you are wanting to achieve - in > particular, what is the DSL you are wanting to create, how do you want it to > be used, and what is it intended to do? > > Warmest Regards, > > Mark. > > -- > Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
On 2018-04-19 09:57, David Bovill via use-livecode wrote: So let's ask some dumb questions: 1. Is there an abstract syntax tree (AST) for the Livecode language? Yes - the AST is defined by the set of syntax classes in the engine source-code (such as MCAnswer, MCMinus, MCProperty). 2. Where can I buy it? You don't need to - all the source-code is at https://github.com/livecode/livecode.git 3. How hard would it be to create one? Well, one already exists so there is no real need to 'create' one per-se, although whether its current form is suitable for your needs is another matter - I suspect you aren't asking the right question :) Google told me that I should use Coco, to generate an AST from the C++ code. But i don't trust Google, I much prefer Siri due to her business model. My hope is that Mark Waddingham will explain this properly. I trust Mark. CoCo is a compiler front-end generator. It allows you to express a tokenizer as a set of regular expressions, and a parser as a formal grammar conforming to LL(k)ish (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LL_grammar). CoCo then generates something which given a source-text will give you a syntax tree of some kind. *Open Language* My understanding is that we are steadily, if not slower than hoped, moving towards open language in Livecode. It's something I need, hence my interest in DSL's, AST's and compilers. I'd like to know more. Yes we are still moving towards it, but it is taking a lot longer than expected (although lc-compile, the LCB compiler, does have a non-dynamic version of Open Language to a certain extent which, unfortunately, isn't suitable for LCS in its full gory detail). At the moment I believe from previous posts, it is possible to create DSL's in Livecode, but you have to compile from source. I'd like to have a go at that if possible, as it may well be a shorter path to creating my DSL, than trying to get Siri to teach me about abstract syntax trees. Without knowing any details of the new project, or what you would like to be able to do it is hard for me to advise here. Certainly augmenting engine syntax is possible by writing C++ and building from source - although the difficult in doing that is entirely related to what syntax you'd like to augment / extend / change. That wouldn't really create a DSL per-se, but an extended version of LiveCode Script (which may be what you want, or maybe not). Indeed, it is entirely possible that the DSL you want to create doesn't require fettling with the engine at all - LCS is a really good language for writing DSLs as it stands, as well as interpreters and compilers. For example, Ali's tutorial system is a simple DSL, using a parser and interpreter both written in LCS (https://github.com/livecode/livecode-ide/tree/develop/Toolset/palettes/tutorial). Mark any chance of sending the gift of your knowledge our way? I could ramble on at length ( not that I'm prone to that, of course ;) ) about designing programming languages, interpreters, compilers, parsers, tokenisers, name analysis, abstract syntax trees, concrete syntax trees, code generation and a great many other things... However, I suspect something more focused would be more helpful and for that I really need a greater idea of what you are wanting to achieve - in particular, what is the DSL you are wanting to create, how do you want it to be used, and what is it intended to do? Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
OpenLanguage: abstract syntax trees
I'm doing some research around languages for a new project. I'd like to get a firmer handle on where Livecode as a language is going, and need to learn a bit more computer science regarding compilers, abstract syntax trees and language design. So let's ask some dumb questions: 1. Is there an abstract syntax tree (AST) for the Livecode language? 2. Where can I buy it? 3. How hard would it be to create one? Google told me that I should use Coco, to generate an AST from the C++ code. But i don't trust Google, I much prefer Siri due to her business model. My hope is that Mark Waddingham will explain this properly. I trust Mark. *Open Language* My understanding is that we are steadily, if not slower than hoped, moving towards open language in Livecode. It's something I need, hence my interest in DSL's, AST's and compilers. I'd like to know more. At the moment I believe from previous posts, it is possible to create DSL's in Livecode, but you have to compile from source. I'd like to have a go at that if possible, as it may well be a shorter path to creating my DSL, than trying to get Siri to teach me about abstract syntax trees. Mark any chance of sending the gift of your knowledge our way? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
