Re: Catalina Entitlements or Permissions (was Possible Catalina problem)

[Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode]

> http://newosxbook.com/ent.jl
> 
> Now, if only I could figure out from the database which ones I need to add.

Wow, that is an AWESOME tool! I hate that Apple won't pull a single engineer 
off a project to write some documentation. A similar solution I use is to 
make-up for Apple’s confusing developer matrix is https://xcodereleases.com/

I think you’re on the right track about figuring out entitlements via that 
database. By randomly selecting some Executable files that I was familiar with 
(iTunes, TextEdit, etc.) it looks like you might be interested in:
com.apple.security.files.user-selected.read-write
com.apple.security.files.user-selected.executable 

com.apple.security.device.camera 

com.apple.security.device.microphone 

com.apple.security.app-sandbox 
 
<— not really sure about this one

—Andrew Bell
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Re: Catalina Entitlements or Permissions (was Possible Catalina problem)

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Arghh!

So I am Googling and Googling and hunting around the Apple Developer 
site to try to find a comprehensive list of macOS entitlements so I can 
code sign my app with the the entitlements my app needs to not generate 
errors under Catalina.


I want to execute: codesign --verbose --deep --force --sign 
"" --entitlements 
 
with an entitlements.plist file with entitlemenst to grant my app 
certain disk access, internet access, email access, and finder integration.


Finally, I find this article that basically says Apple has no 
comprehensive list - their published developer documentation has not 
kept up with the additions they have been making in point release 
updates to macOS: 
https://eclecticlight.co/2019/02/26/entitlements-how-apps-get-back-what-theyve-given-up/


The lack of an up-to-date comprehensive entitlements list was apparently 
bad enough that a guy by the name of Jonathan Levin built a database to 
keep track of them since Apple couldn't (or wouldn't), so at least there 
is this hand database at http://newosxbook.com/ent.jl


Now, if only I could figure out from the database which ones I need to add.

Perhaps, it is time to switch to Mark Talluto's suggestion to use 
AppWrapper!



On 6/16/2020 6:28 PM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Panos,

Thank you very much. The discussion in the bug entry answered  lot of 
my questions. I have one last thing I hope you or someone can point me 
two, which is a list of Apple macOS "entitlements"


From the bug entry I see:

com.apple.security.device.audio-input

com.apple.security.device.camera


I need to figure out the ones for email access, finder integration 
(drag/drop), internet access, and disk access.


We've seen Catalina ask the user for:

1. HyperRESEARCH requests access to the Internet (if Apple Firewall is
   turned on). - We assume this is because out app needs to check for
   new versions and updates and for license management.
2. HyperRESEARCH requests access to the "Finder". - We assume this is
   to receive AppleEvents (system messages) if a Study file is double
   clicked or dragged and dropped on HyperRESEARCH to open the Study.
3. HyperRESEARCH requests access to your "Contacts". We assume this is
   for access to send an email for an error report if an error occurs.
   Our App does not accessing any names or addresses.

I have tried Google for macOS or Catalina and entitlements but all I 
seem to be able to find is articles from the user's perspective, not 
developers information.





On 6/15/2020 12:21 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:

Hello Paul,

I guess you can sign the standalone mac app with entitlements, i.e. 
use a

file that will contain all the necessary entitlements, and include it in
the params passed to the codesign command. See this report for more 
details:


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22660

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 14:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


We're having some macOS Catalina permissions/entitlements issues

We have applications that we deliver for Catalina where the application
(LiveCode standalone) is code-signed. It is then packaged in an
installers (LiveCode standalone) and the installer is code signed. That
is then placed in a DMG, which is code-signed, notarized, and stapled.

This has worked for us since October when Catalina was released.

It still works, except sometimes, after successful downloading and
installation, when the applications is first launched, Catalina does 
not

ask for the permissions the Application needs. Instead certain handler
throw an execution error. The handlers that produce the errors on
startup when Catalina fails to ask for permissions have the 
following in

common:

The set the defaultFolder to folders such as:

/Library/PreferencePanes
/Users//Library/Preferences -- this is using the code: the
home folder & "/Library/PreferencePanes/"
or
/private/var/folders/fj/0llnt4vs44vfzy4r97k_wngcgp/T/TemporaryItems
-- this is 'the temporary folder' on Mojave or Catalina. On Mavericks
and earlier teh temporaty folder was
/Users//Library/Caches/TemporaryItems

After setting the defaultFolder, the code gets 'the files' or 'the
folders' and fails (actually we've not pinned down whether it fails on
set the defaultFolder OR on the call to 'the files/folders')

Going to Apple (menu) > System Preferences (menu item) > Security &
Privacy (control) > Privacy (tab) and selecting Full Disk Access and
adding our applications prevents these errors from occuring.

The issue is clearly with Catalina failing to detect and ask for the
correct permissions. This is a known issue a number of developers have
run into. See https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/125438 as one
example where an Apple support person admits that detecting what
permissions a process is requesting that is tied back to your user
visible app (something Apple calls 'responsibility tracking') is 

Re: Catalina Entitlements or Permissions (was Possible Catalina problem)

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Hi Panos,

Thank you very much. The discussion in the bug entry answered  lot of my 
questions. I have one last thing I hope you or someone can point me two, 
which is a list of Apple macOS "entitlements"


From the bug entry I see:

com.apple.security.device.audio-input

com.apple.security.device.camera


I need to figure out the ones for email access, finder integration 
(drag/drop), internet access, and disk access.


We've seen Catalina ask the user for:

1. HyperRESEARCH requests access to the Internet (if Apple Firewall is
   turned on). - We assume this is because out app needs to check for
   new versions and updates and for license management.
2. HyperRESEARCH requests access to the "Finder". - We assume this is
   to receive AppleEvents (system messages) if a Study file is double
   clicked or dragged and dropped on HyperRESEARCH to open the Study.
3. HyperRESEARCH requests access to your "Contacts". We assume this is
   for access to send an email for an error report if an error occurs.
   Our App does not accessing any names or addresses.

I have tried Google for macOS or Catalina and entitlements but all I 
seem to be able to find is articles from the user's perspective, not 
developers information.





On 6/15/2020 12:21 PM, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode wrote:

Hello Paul,

I guess you can sign the standalone mac app with entitlements, i.e. use a
file that will contain all the necessary entitlements, and include it in
the params passed to the codesign command. See this report for more details:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22660

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 14:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


We're having some macOS Catalina permissions/entitlements issues

We have applications that we deliver for Catalina where the application
(LiveCode standalone) is code-signed. It is then packaged in an
installers (LiveCode standalone) and the installer is code signed. That
is then placed in a DMG, which is code-signed, notarized, and stapled.

This has worked for us since October when Catalina was released.

It still works, except sometimes, after successful downloading and
installation, when the applications is first launched, Catalina does not
ask for the permissions the Application needs. Instead certain handler
throw an execution error. The handlers that produce the errors on
startup when Catalina fails to ask for permissions have the following in
common:

The set the defaultFolder to folders such as:

/Library/PreferencePanes
/Users//Library/Preferences -- this is using the code: the
home folder & "/Library/PreferencePanes/"
or
/private/var/folders/fj/0llnt4vs44vfzy4r97k_wngcgp/T/TemporaryItems
-- this is 'the temporary folder' on Mojave or Catalina. On Mavericks
and earlier teh temporaty folder was
/Users//Library/Caches/TemporaryItems

After setting the defaultFolder, the code gets 'the files' or 'the
folders' and fails (actually we've not pinned down whether it fails on
set the defaultFolder OR on the call to 'the files/folders')

Going to Apple (menu) > System Preferences (menu item) > Security &
Privacy (control) > Privacy (tab) and selecting Full Disk Access and
adding our applications prevents these errors from occuring.

The issue is clearly with Catalina failing to detect and ask for the
correct permissions. This is a known issue a number of developers have
run into. See https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/125438 as one
example where an Apple support person admits that detecting what
permissions a process is requesting that is tied back to your user
visible app (something Apple calls 'responsibility tracking') is really
hard.

For iOS and Android, you can specify entitlements or requested
permissions in the Standalone Builder Settings. How do you do this for
macOS Catalina?

Does anyone know if there is a way to specify entitlements for a macOS
desktop app built in LiveCode? I have been googling and googling and can
seem to find anything. I found one discussion on stackExchange that seem
to imply that the PLIST file could be edited to specify entitlements. I
have tried the Apple Developer site, but SO MUCH of it is orient towards
people with lots of Apple Developer experience and focuses of C and
SWIFT and Apple specific technologies I don't understand.

I can edit the XML in a PLIST file in the standalone bundle IF I only
knew what to add?


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Re: Catalina Entitlements or Permissions (was Possible Catalina problem)

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

We use App Wrapper 3 to sign and notarize our apps. You can control all of 
these details from inside the app. It makes it pretty easy. I think you can try 
the app for free and see if this works for you.
https://www.ohanaware.com/appwrapper/ 

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 


> On Jun 15, 2020, at 4:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> We're having some macOS Catalina permissions/entitlements issues
> 
> We have applications that we deliver for Catalina where the application 
> (LiveCode standalone) is code-signed. It is then packaged in an installers 
> (LiveCode standalone) and the installer is code signed. That is then placed 
> in a DMG, which is code-signed, notarized, and stapled.
> 
> This has worked for us since October when Catalina was released.
> 
> It still works, except sometimes, after successful downloading and 
> installation, when the applications is first launched, Catalina does not ask 
> for the permissions the Application needs. Instead certain handler throw an 
> execution error. The handlers that produce the errors on startup when 
> Catalina fails to ask for permissions have the following in common:

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Re: Catalina Entitlements or Permissions (was Possible Catalina problem)

[panagiotis merakos via use-livecode]

Hello Paul,

I guess you can sign the standalone mac app with entitlements, i.e. use a
file that will contain all the necessary entitlements, and include it in
the params passed to the codesign command. See this report for more details:

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22660

Kind regards,
Panos
--

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 at 14:56, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> We're having some macOS Catalina permissions/entitlements issues
>
> We have applications that we deliver for Catalina where the application
> (LiveCode standalone) is code-signed. It is then packaged in an
> installers (LiveCode standalone) and the installer is code signed. That
> is then placed in a DMG, which is code-signed, notarized, and stapled.
>
> This has worked for us since October when Catalina was released.
>
> It still works, except sometimes, after successful downloading and
> installation, when the applications is first launched, Catalina does not
> ask for the permissions the Application needs. Instead certain handler
> throw an execution error. The handlers that produce the errors on
> startup when Catalina fails to ask for permissions have the following in
> common:
>
> The set the defaultFolder to folders such as:
>
> /Library/PreferencePanes
> /Users//Library/Preferences -- this is using the code: the
> home folder & "/Library/PreferencePanes/"
> or
> /private/var/folders/fj/0llnt4vs44vfzy4r97k_wngcgp/T/TemporaryItems
> -- this is 'the temporary folder' on Mojave or Catalina. On Mavericks
> and earlier teh temporaty folder was
> /Users//Library/Caches/TemporaryItems
>
> After setting the defaultFolder, the code gets 'the files' or 'the
> folders' and fails (actually we've not pinned down whether it fails on
> set the defaultFolder OR on the call to 'the files/folders')
>
> Going to Apple (menu) > System Preferences (menu item) > Security &
> Privacy (control) > Privacy (tab) and selecting Full Disk Access and
> adding our applications prevents these errors from occuring.
>
> The issue is clearly with Catalina failing to detect and ask for the
> correct permissions. This is a known issue a number of developers have
> run into. See https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/125438 as one
> example where an Apple support person admits that detecting what
> permissions a process is requesting that is tied back to your user
> visible app (something Apple calls 'responsibility tracking') is really
> hard.
>
> For iOS and Android, you can specify entitlements or requested
> permissions in the Standalone Builder Settings. How do you do this for
> macOS Catalina?
>
> Does anyone know if there is a way to specify entitlements for a macOS
> desktop app built in LiveCode? I have been googling and googling and can
> seem to find anything. I found one discussion on stackExchange that seem
> to imply that the PLIST file could be edited to specify entitlements. I
> have tried the Apple Developer site, but SO MUCH of it is orient towards
> people with lots of Apple Developer experience and focuses of C and
> SWIFT and Apple specific technologies I don't understand.
>
> I can edit the XML in a PLIST file in the standalone bundle IF I only
> knew what to add?
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Catalina Entitlements or Permissions (was Possible Catalina problem)

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

We're having some macOS Catalina permissions/entitlements issues

We have applications that we deliver for Catalina where the application 
(LiveCode standalone) is code-signed. It is then packaged in an 
installers (LiveCode standalone) and the installer is code signed. That 
is then placed in a DMG, which is code-signed, notarized, and stapled.


This has worked for us since October when Catalina was released.

It still works, except sometimes, after successful downloading and 
installation, when the applications is first launched, Catalina does not 
ask for the permissions the Application needs. Instead certain handler 
throw an execution error. The handlers that produce the errors on 
startup when Catalina fails to ask for permissions have the following in 
common:


The set the defaultFolder to folders such as:

/Library/PreferencePanes
/Users//Library/Preferences -- this is using the code: the 
home folder & "/Library/PreferencePanes/"

or
/private/var/folders/fj/0llnt4vs44vfzy4r97k_wngcgp/T/TemporaryItems 
-- this is 'the temporary folder' on Mojave or Catalina. On Mavericks 
and earlier teh temporaty folder was 
/Users//Library/Caches/TemporaryItems


After setting the defaultFolder, the code gets 'the files' or 'the 
folders' and fails (actually we've not pinned down whether it fails on 
set the defaultFolder OR on the call to 'the files/folders')


Going to Apple (menu) > System Preferences (menu item) > Security & 
Privacy (control) > Privacy (tab) and selecting Full Disk Access and 
adding our applications prevents these errors from occuring.


The issue is clearly with Catalina failing to detect and ask for the 
correct permissions. This is a known issue a number of developers have 
run into. See https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/125438 as one 
example where an Apple support person admits that detecting what 
permissions a process is requesting that is tied back to your user 
visible app (something Apple calls 'responsibility tracking') is really 
hard.


For iOS and Android, you can specify entitlements or requested 
permissions in the Standalone Builder Settings. How do you do this for 
macOS Catalina?


Does anyone know if there is a way to specify entitlements for a macOS 
desktop app built in LiveCode? I have been googling and googling and can 
seem to find anything. I found one discussion on stackExchange that seem 
to imply that the PLIST file could be edited to specify entitlements. I 
have tried the Apple Developer site, but SO MUCH of it is orient towards 
people with lots of Apple Developer experience and focuses of C and 
SWIFT and Apple specific technologies I don't understand.


I can edit the XML in a PLIST file in the standalone bundle IF I only 
knew what to add?



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Re: Possible Catalina problem...

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Well, goofy as it may seem . . .

MacOS 10.15.5 / LiveCode 9.6.0 Community

I made a stack containing 1 butoon and NO code and called it "example 1" 
and ran off a Mac standalone.


The I renamed the stack "example 2" and did exactly the same thing.

Both of the resultant standalones lauched without an "funny" messages.

HOWEVER, that result is only of any value as far as 2 apps built from 
what are effectively "zero" stacks go (not very far at all).


Richmond.

On 8.06.20 17:55, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:
We have run into a possible problem. Researchware makes two 
applications, HyperRESEARCH and HyperTRANSCRIBE. We have new 
forthcoming versions of both built on LiveCode 9.5.1.


These two applications are code signed and the DMG is code signed, 
notarized, and stapled for Catalina. They both work fine on testing on 
macOS ranging from Mavericks (10.9) to Mojave (10.14).


We also only have a single Catalina system to test on. On that single 
system, each application seems to work fine, but if we run them at the 
same time, the second app to launch throws a script error on startup - 
and it looks like it may be related to network actions on startup.


We have a TON more testing to do, but I wanted to ask if anyone have 
seen ANY Catalina specific problems running multiple LiveCode 
standalones at the same time?


Our hope is that this is a problem SPECIFIC to our single Catalina mac 
and not a LC Engine or tsNet Catalina specific bug of some sort. To 
know that some one else has run multiple LC 9 standalones at the same 
time on Catalina and seen no errors would be kind of encouraging right 
now.







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Re: Possible Catalina problem...

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 6/8/20 7:55 AM, Paul Dupuis via use-livecode wrote:

Our hope is that this is a problem SPECIFIC to our single Catalina mac 
and not a LC Engine or tsNet Catalina specific bug of some sort. To know 
that some one else has run multiple LC 9 standalones at the same time on 
Catalina and seen no errors would be kind of encouraging right now.


Don't have an answer, but I'm amused that SuperCard now recommends that 
you install Parallels and a previous OSX because of the Catalina apocalypse.


https://youtu.be/WdNjnCVDjNY

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Possible Catalina problem...

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Torsten,

Thank you. That is encouraging. I may take you up on your offer later to 
run a test on your Catalina Mac.


-- Paul

On 6/8/2020 11:10 AM, Torsten Holmer via use-livecode wrote:

Hi Paul,

I have started three LiveCode standalones on Catalina with no problems. But 
they are just standalones created frome the IDE with no signing etc.

If you like, I can test your apps on my MacBook with Catalina in order to check 
if the problems are replicable.

CU,
Torsten



Am 08.06.2020 um 16:55 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
:

We have run into a possible problem. Researchware makes two applications, 
HyperRESEARCH and HyperTRANSCRIBE. We have new forthcoming versions of both 
built on LiveCode 9.5.1.

These two applications are code signed and the DMG is code signed, notarized, 
and stapled for Catalina. They both work fine on testing on macOS ranging from 
Mavericks (10.9) to Mojave (10.14).

We also only have a single Catalina system to test on. On that single system, 
each application seems to work fine, but if we run them at the same time, the 
second app to launch throws a script error on startup - and it looks like it 
may be related to network actions on startup.

We have a TON more testing to do, but I wanted to ask if anyone have seen ANY 
Catalina specific problems running multiple LiveCode standalones at the same 
time?

Our hope is that this is a problem SPECIFIC to our single Catalina mac and not 
a LC Engine or tsNet Catalina specific bug of some sort. To know that some one 
else has run multiple LC 9 standalones at the same time on Catalina and seen no 
errors would be kind of encouraging right now.






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Re: Possible Catalina problem...

[Torsten Holmer via use-livecode]

Hi Paul,

I have started three LiveCode standalones on Catalina with no problems. But 
they are just standalones created frome the IDE with no signing etc.

If you like, I can test your apps on my MacBook with Catalina in order to check 
if the problems are replicable.

CU,
Torsten


> Am 08.06.2020 um 16:55 schrieb Paul Dupuis via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> We have run into a possible problem. Researchware makes two applications, 
> HyperRESEARCH and HyperTRANSCRIBE. We have new forthcoming versions of both 
> built on LiveCode 9.5.1.
> 
> These two applications are code signed and the DMG is code signed, notarized, 
> and stapled for Catalina. They both work fine on testing on macOS ranging 
> from Mavericks (10.9) to Mojave (10.14).
> 
> We also only have a single Catalina system to test on. On that single system, 
> each application seems to work fine, but if we run them at the same time, the 
> second app to launch throws a script error on startup - and it looks like it 
> may be related to network actions on startup.
> 
> We have a TON more testing to do, but I wanted to ask if anyone have seen ANY 
> Catalina specific problems running multiple LiveCode standalones at the same 
> time?
> 
> Our hope is that this is a problem SPECIFIC to our single Catalina mac and 
> not a LC Engine or tsNet Catalina specific bug of some sort. To know that 
> some one else has run multiple LC 9 standalones at the same time on Catalina 
> and seen no errors would be kind of encouraging right now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Possible Catalina problem...

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

We have run into a possible problem. Researchware makes two 
applications, HyperRESEARCH and HyperTRANSCRIBE. We have new forthcoming 
versions of both built on LiveCode 9.5.1.


These two applications are code signed and the DMG is code signed, 
notarized, and stapled for Catalina. They both work fine on testing on 
macOS ranging from Mavericks (10.9) to Mojave (10.14).


We also only have a single Catalina system to test on. On that single 
system, each application seems to work fine, but if we run them at the 
same time, the second app to launch throws a script error on startup - 
and it looks like it may be related to network actions on startup.


We have a TON more testing to do, but I wanted to ask if anyone have 
seen ANY Catalina specific problems running multiple LiveCode 
standalones at the same time?


Our hope is that this is a problem SPECIFIC to our single Catalina mac 
and not a LC Engine or tsNet Catalina specific bug of some sort. To know 
that some one else has run multiple LC 9 standalones at the same time on 
Catalina and seen no errors would be kind of encouraging right now.







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