Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode
On 8/14/20 12:06 PM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote: Same as winning the lottery - you have to have a ticket. Winning the lottery is cheaper if you don't buy a ticket. And the odds are about the same. -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
“I'm just a citizen, like billions of others, looking at the ever-more-accelerated concentration of wealth, power, and control into the hands of just five people, and wondering if this is really in everyone's best interests...“ Probably not. But anything considered must be done very carefully

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
On 8/14/20 9:46 AM, Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode wrote: It's all a pointless debate. Apple can do what it likes with THEIR *platform*! if YOU_choose_ not to agree with their policies for use on THEIR platform, YOU can_choose_ to go elsewhere. We can't all choose. Remember Mylan, the drug

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Brian Milby wrote: "Microsoft can do what it likes with THEIR *platform*! if YOU _choose_ not to agree with their policies for use on THEIR platform, YOU can _choose_ to go elsewhere." Absolutely... on THEIR *XBox* platform. Microsoft leveraged anti-competitive practices to squeeze out

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
"Microsoft can do what it likes with THEIR *platform*! if YOU _choose_ not to agree with their policies for use on THEIR platform, YOU can _choose_ to go elsewhere." Absolutely... on THEIR *XBox* platform. Microsoft leveraged anti-competitive practices to squeeze out competition on the

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Lagi Pittas wrote: > I didn't mean no marketing - it's like the folks that buy books about > the law of attraction and sit on their fata arses visualizing a BMW. > > You can sit in your chair visualizing all you want but the BMW, and > bigger house won't come to you if you don't get off your

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
Hi Richard, I didn't mean no marketing - it's like the folks that buy books about the law of attraction and sit on their fata arses visualizing a BMW. You can sit in your chair visualizing all you want but the BMW, and bigger house won't come to you if you don't get off your ass and meet the

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Sean Cole wrote: > It's all a pointless debate. Apple can do what it likes with THEIR > *platform*! if YOU _choose_ not to agree with their policies for use > on THEIR platform, YOU can _choose_ to go elsewhere. > > The same or similar issues come up with ALL brands! Google, Samsung, > Nike, AT,

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Lagi Pittas wrote: If you sell a $10,000 worth in the second year you get $8500 without having to spend as much on advertising. Oh? The app store is a directory, not a substitute for marketing. Simply having one of a few million indistiguishably-uniform records in a database is

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Also folks, EPIC didn't do that because "they thought they could get away with it". These are all strategic attacks at Apple at the same time that the EU is looking to maybe mount an antitrust case against them. So you have multiple companies taking action that will either prompt a reaction from

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
Hi People are missing something here. Apple allows programs from Argos, Sams, Amazon (not books) , Free software access for the yearly fee of $99. They take 30% the FIRST years and subsequently 15% - that second figure to me is the important one. You have access to that market and IF you have

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Sean, > Andre, What on earth are you talking about regards browsers? There is a > crapload of other browsers to choose from on ALL platforms, including iOS. > They all play happily by the rules. Which ones are you talking about that > can't get onto Apple because they choose not to follow the

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode
Hi all, It's all a pointless debate. Apple can do what it likes with THEIR *platform*! if YOU _choose_ not to agree with their policies for use on THEIR platform, YOU can _choose_ to go elsewhere. The same or similar issues come up with ALL brands! Google, Samsung, Nike, AT, Ford, Cadbury, so on

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread Kee Nethery via use-livecode
Bypassing Apple in app purchasing is technically trivial, plenty of apps have done it for years and they have followed the App Store rules when doing so. Physical services (eg Plumbers) and physical products (eg Amazon) they cannot use Apple IAP. Digital goods and services (eg Epic) are

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-14 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode
Waaah, now even EPIC with Fortnite has been kicked off the appstore, because they found a way to sell things past the appstore. And then Apple don't get 30% https://tweakers.net/nieuws/170916/apple-verwijdert-fortnite-uit-app-store.html It's in dutch but you get the message. or this one

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
Auto-complete made me do it. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 10, 2020 5:35:40 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote: On 8/10/20 2:43 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: I forgot we had a lawyer in our

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread Jerry Jensen via use-livecode
Feeling old. I should have bought the program to know the players. Good thing I’m not named Terry! > On Aug 10, 2020, at 1:45 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode > wrote: > > > Jerry jesticulated, > > >> Are you sure? The W12 used in some Bentleys is made by VW, and many years of >> Phantoms

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread JB via use-livecode
Maybe she has never been to court. JB > On Aug 10, 2020, at 3:35 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode > wrote: > > On 8/10/20 2:43 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: >> I forgot we had a lawyer in our midst. So is Apple a monopoly in the legal >> sense? > > Ha! You used "legal" and

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode
On 8/10/20 2:43 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote: I forgot we had a lawyer in our midst. So is Apple a monopoly in the legal sense? Ha! You used "legal" and "sense" in the same sentence! -- Mark Wieder ahsoftw...@gmail.com ___

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread JB via use-livecode
If you sell chocolate chip cookies and the majority of the people buy your cookies, does that make you a monopoly? If Ford designs a new car should they be forced to make companies like Chevy be able to use Chevy parts on the Ford car? Anyone can make cookies, cars, computers and mobile devices

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I forgot we had a lawyer in our midst. So is Apple a monopoly in the legal sense? On 8/10/20 3:45 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode wrote: Jerry jesticulated, Are you sure? The W12 used in some Bentleys is made by VW, and many years of Phantoms used a V12 of the proper displacement. Of

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread doc hawk via use-livecode
Jerry jesticulated, > Are you sure? The W12 used in some Bentleys is made by VW, and many years of > Phantoms used a V12 of the proper displacement. Of course they don’t talk > about mundane stuff like that! But VW now makes “Bentley", while “Rolls” is now a BMW brand. In either case, you

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread Jerry Jensen via use-livecode
Are you sure? The W12 used in some Bentleys is made by VW, and many years of Phantoms used a V12 of the proper displacement. Of course they don’t talk about mundane stuff like that! .Jerry > On Aug 10, 2020, at 12:19 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode > wrote: > > I like my Rolls Royce

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-10 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode
Yes, Apple's approach is very proprietary. But it is simply not monopolistic. Apple does not have a monopoly on smartphones or smartphone OSes. What they do have is a very strict proprietary control of their products. Some argue an overly strict control of their products. I like my Rolls Royce

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-09 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
> Do Apple's actions and policies monopolistically harm consumers? Yes it does. There is a ton of innovation that is user friendly that is prevented from being present in iOS due to Apples practices. A simple example is new browser engines, you can't have them. Which means you can't have more

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-09 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
People saying that there are Apple competitors in the App Store are missing some crucial details. First, since Apple takes 30% cut of all ecommerce that passes through it, it basically means that competitors can't really compete with Apple owns offers that don't need to go through that fee.

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-08 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
This: "PC and Mac users have assumed for decades that they could choose whatever they wanted to see, hear, and play on their own computers. But with iOS, Apple tried to avoid surrendering that level of openness, at least for content viewed through native apps." -- Jacqueline Landman Gay |

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-08 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Two thoughts on this, possibly worth pondering: 1. The definition of "antitrust" may be outdated. Antitrust regs kick in when one company has undue control over an industry. What exactly is "undue"? What exactly is an "industry"? In a world where "products" and "industries" and "platforms"

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-08 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode
BrianM wrote: > One thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is the point of view of > the ?client?, the one who downloads the app and pays for it True. In the U.S. the laws against monopoly (the Sherman Act of 1890, the Clayton Act of 1914 and the Federal Trade Commission Act of

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread prothero--- via use-livecode
Folks: One thing that seems to be missing in this discussion is the point of view of the “client”, the one who downloads the app and pays for it. I agree that the hoops one has to go through to get an app in the Apple store are a big pain, and that it seems unfair for Apple to get a cut of

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
Apple created a closed platform with their own store and rules. Now that they are successful to say that they must change seems incorrect. For whatever reason people like the product and I think a big part IS the store and model. I don’t think another store is the answer and rather think it

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Brian, It is not about Apple allowing clones. It is about Apple opening iOS for other stores. Every other platform has multiple app stores, for example, on my Samsung Galaxy Note 8 I have Play Store, Galaxy Store, F-Droid, and some apps that were sideloaded after being purchased/downloaded from

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Stephen, Web Apps don't level the playing field because Apple controls the web engine on iOS. They don't allow any other web engine on the platform, so if they don't implement an API that would hurt their monopoly for whatever reason their PR machine uses as justification, we end up with a weaker

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Stephen Barncard via use-livecode
I thought "web apps" were going to level the playing field, and they could be made to look just like iPhone apps on an iPhone, one just rigs the css and graphics. How did that work out? I do love Livecode serverbrilliant. (full disclosure, I hate using phones for stuff I can do on a

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
Not sure the question is relevant. You chose to buy the iHouse over the droidHouse for some reason. Maybe you wanted to live in the neighborhood with the lowest crime rate. Also, until Apple is forced to allow other companies to make compatible phones, I don’t see how the logic works.

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Jim, > Even with 58% of the US smartphone market Apple does not actually have a monopoly. > Now there may be plenty of good reasons to object to Apple’s app store policies but let’s not misuse the term monopoly. There is another way to approach this. Apple has the monopoly of the iOS market,

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Stephen Barncard via use-livecode
And Apple knows it. -- Stephen Barncard - Sebastopol Ca. USA - mixstream.org On Fri, Aug 7, 2020 at 9:08 AM J. Landman Gay via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > My primary reason is that my clients always want their mobile app released > for both platforms. > -- >

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode
"A monopoly refers to when a company and its product offerings dominate a sector or industry. Monopolies can be considered an extreme result of free-market capitalism in that absent any restriction or restraints, a single company or group

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
My primary reason is that my clients always want their mobile app released for both platforms. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com On August 7, 2020 6:34:45 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote: Antti, Android has 85%

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Antti, Android has 85% of the world market, it all depends on which country you're selling and which metrics you're using. In the U.S. iOS has 58% of the smartphone market and 63% of the tablet market. Another important factor is that iOS users spend more money on apps than their Android peers.

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-07 Thread Antti Ilola via use-livecode
If Apple is so horrible, why do you do software to them and I think that Apple has no monopoly, since Android shares 85% of the phone market. Antti to 6. elok. 2020 klo 22.23 JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode ( use-livecode@lists.runrev.com) kirjoitti: > Wow, that's heavy Jacque. > I'm not at all

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-06 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode
Wow, that's heavy Jacque. I'm not at all against Apple products, although it may seem like it sometimes. I'm against how they work, making it more and more difficult. I'm for a safe store too. But this is grabbing money from wherever they can. Op do 6 aug. 2020 om 20:53 schreef J. Landman Gay via

RE: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-06 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
unrev.com] On Behalf Of J. Landman Gay via use-livecode Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2020 2:52 PM To: How to use LiveCode Cc: J. Landman Gay Subject: Re: ProtonMail vs Apple I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house. Their customers are large organizations that buy products in

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-06 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I've been working on mobile apps for a non-profit publishing house. Their customers are large organizations that buy products in bulk and then resell to their own customers. Thus, the app does not sell to users at all, nor does our client. I made a minor mistake in one of my progress spinners;

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-06 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode
Hmpff i just read in the news that even Microsoft can't bring out an xcloud application due to the apple store rules. What a mess. Only Android users will be able to stream games as mentioned on dutch tweakers.net website. I think it's going to cost MS to much money to pay Apple ifvthey would

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
JeeJeeStudio wrote: > 1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now also is > removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created mobile app... "Possible" is a big word. It covers nearly everything. It's possible to use LC Build to support ad network APIs. It's also

RE: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
- From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of Mark Wieder via use-livecode Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2020 3:38 PM To: Dev via use-livecode Cc: Mark Wieder Subject: Re: ProtonMail vs Apple On 8/4/20 11:39 AM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > I think that the

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode
1 positive thing then on a thing we don't have in LC and now also is removed...the possibility to put ads in your LC created mobile app... Op di 4 aug. 2020 21:38 schreef Mark Wieder via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>: > On 8/4/20 11:39 AM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > > > I

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode
On 8/4/20 11:39 AM, Dev via use-livecode wrote: > I think that the changes being made are actually done from a protectionist perspective in an increasingly hostile digital world. The point here, though, is that Apple is now demanding that anything sold through mobile ads requires a 30%

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread Dev via use-livecode
It may feel like a monopoly because Apple takes 80% of the profits in the overall field of mobile apps. Generally, Android users don’t pay for apps, iOS users will. So a choice to NOT develop for iOS has some severe economic consequences that a developer has to think about. There are many

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode
It's not a contradictory, Apple has Worldwide Monopoly of iOs and the Apple store. I don't know any other store for Apple iOs software. (are there?) As for Android there are multiple stores (yes Google hold the monopoly of the OS itself) Op di 4 aug. 2020 om 20:20 schreef Jim Lambert via

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode
That article is an interesting read. Still these two sentences: Apple is using its monopoly to hold all of us hostage Apple’s iOS controls 25% of the global smartphone market (the other 75%, is largely controlled by Google’s Android). are self contradictory. By definition a company with 25% of

Re: ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-04 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode
1 solution :Ban apple and their appstore. Your users use Apple, aah, to bad for them. First they bought overprized hardware...and the rest you know Op 3-8-2020 om 23:33 schreef Mark Wieder via use-livecode: ...catching up on some reading here. One of my email providers

ProtonMail vs Apple

2020-08-03 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode
...catching up on some reading here. One of my email providers (ahsoftw...@protonmail.com) has gone public with some of the heavy-handed tactics Apple uses on developers. For example: "Apple has now even gone so far as to ban apps from the App Store if they refuse to offer in-app purchases