Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[kee nethery via use-livecode]

Mark, Thanks!

Here’s the script I created based upon your example. This is a stack with one 
card and on the card is a field “counter”. I put “0” into the field to seed it.

When the stack file is opened, it launches LiveCode and does the preOpenStack 
and the send in seconds causes the stack to display. The field counter starts 
incrementing.

And to get it to stop, hold down the option key and processing halts.

Damn, wish I had known about this years ago. Thanks,
Kee


on preOpenStack
choose browse tool
send idleDoit to this stack in 1 second
end preOpenStack

on idleDoit
put field "counter" + 1 into field “counter"
if the optionKey is up then
send idleDoit to this stack in 1 second
end if
end idleDoit



> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:30 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 2/1/21 10:29 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> Basically I needed a stack to launch and run in the IDE and LiveCode didn’t 
>> have a way to do that.
> 
> ???
> 
> on preOpenStack
>  choose pointer tool
>  startMeUp
> end preOpenStack
> 
> on startMeUp
>  answer "I'm started"
> end startMeUp
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 2/1/21 10:29 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode wrote:


Basically I needed a stack to launch and run in the IDE and LiveCode didn’t 
have a way to do that.


???

on preOpenStack
  choose pointer tool
  startMeUp
end preOpenStack

on startMeUp
  answer "I'm started"
end startMeUp

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[kee nethery via use-livecode]

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 1:52 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for 
> another time.
> 
> In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a 
> utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of 
> some other processes.
> 
> For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather 
> than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.

When I was running Kagi, we had a bunch of headless MacMini’s running HyperCard 
that processed various transactions. HyperCard would launch on machine startup 
and the stack would run through it’s cards, each with a separate thing it 
looked for to process.

One beautiful thing about this setup was that I would not code situations that 
I thought were unlikely to occur. I’d trap for them, but not code them. If that 
situation occurred, the stack would text me and halt into the debugger. I could 
log onto the machine, look at the variables, see what the situation was, and 
write code to handle it. 

1. Stack ran forever, cycling through cards.
2. Stack sent me a text when new code needed to be written.
3. Script was in the debugger allowing me to see why it halted.
4. I could alter the script immediately, test with the weird data, and then 
copy that stack to the other machines running the same stack.

I was unable to get LiveCode to mimic this functionality.

Basically I needed a stack to launch and run in the IDE and LiveCode didn’t 
have a way to do that. 

Kee Nethery
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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Superb, thank you Matthias. Apologies not having RTFM'd properly myself.

Ben

On 01/02/2021 12:07, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:



Am 01.02.2021 um 10:52 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:

Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for 
another time.

In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a 
utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of 
some other processes.

For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather 
than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.

So two questions:

- just to be clear, does LiveCode Server only work receiving requests from 
Apache/nginx/whatever? Or can it be run from the command line?


You can run LiveCode Server from the command line


- is there a way to install ordinary LiveCode on a headless linux box? Or will 
the installer demand a GUI to complete?



According to page 7 of the Livecode 9.6.2 Release Notes, it is possible to run 
the installer without a gui.
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf 


Excerpt...



Command-line installation
It is possible to invoke the installer from the command-line on Linux and 
Windows. When doing command-line installation, no GUI will be displayed. The 
installation process is controlled by arguments passed to the installer.
Run the installer using a command in the form:

   install -ui [OPTION ...]

where  should be replaced with the path of the installer executable 
or app (inside the DMG) that has been downloaded. The result of the installation 
operation will be written to the console.

The installer understands any of the following options:

-allusers
Install the IDE for "All Users". If not specified, LiveCode will be installed 
for the current user only.

- desktopshortcut
Place a shortcut on the Desktop (Windows-only)

-startmenu
  Place shortcuts in the Start Menu (Windows-only)

-location LOCATION
The folder to install into. If not specified, the LOCATION defaults to those described in 
the "Installation" section above.

-log LOGFILE
The file to which to log installation actions. If not specified, no log is 
generated.

Note: the command-line installer does not do any authentication. When installing for 
"All Users", you will need to run the installer command as an administrator.
As the installer is actually a GUI application, it needs to be run slightly 
differently from other command-line programs.
On Windows, the command is:
start /wait  install -ui [OPTION ...]
<


Regards,
Matthias



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

> Am 01.02.2021 um 10:52 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for 
> another time.
> 
> In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a 
> utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of 
> some other processes.
> 
> For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather 
> than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.
> 
> So two questions:
> 
> - just to be clear, does LiveCode Server only work receiving requests from 
> Apache/nginx/whatever? Or can it be run from the command line?
> 
You can run LiveCode Server from the command line

> - is there a way to install ordinary LiveCode on a headless linux box? Or 
> will the installer demand a GUI to complete?
> 

According to page 7 of the Livecode 9.6.2 Release Notes, it is possible to run 
the installer without a gui.
https://downloads.livecode.com/livecode/9_6_2/LiveCodeNotes-9_6_2_rc_2.pdf 


Excerpt...
> 
Command-line installation
It is possible to invoke the installer from the command-line on Linux and 
Windows. When doing command-line installation, no GUI will be displayed. The 
installation process is controlled by arguments passed to the installer.
Run the installer using a command in the form:

  install -ui [OPTION ...]

where  should be replaced with the path of the installer executable 
or app (inside the DMG) that has been downloaded. The result of the 
installation operation will be written to the console.

The installer understands any of the following options:

-allusers
Install the IDE for "All Users". If not specified, LiveCode will be installed 
for the current user only.

- desktopshortcut
Place a shortcut on the Desktop (Windows-only)

-startmenu
 Place shortcuts in the Start Menu (Windows-only)

-location LOCATION
The folder to install into. If not specified, the LOCATION defaults to those 
described in the "Installation" section above.

-log LOGFILE
The file to which to log installation actions. If not specified, no log is 
generated.

Note: the command-line installer does not do any authentication. When 
installing for "All Users", you will need to run the installer command as an 
administrator.
As the installer is actually a GUI application, it needs to be run slightly 
differently from other command-line programs.
On Windows, the command is:
start /wait  install -ui [OPTION ...]
<


Regards,
Matthias



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Thanks Mark (and Matthias). That's very useful info which I'll stash for 
another time.


In this case I really don't want to use the LC code over HTTP. It is purely a 
utility to run locally on this machine at scheduled intervals, in support of 
some other processes.


For several reasons it would be more convenient to run it as a stack rather 
than just a script, though it would be possible to go the latter way.


So two questions:

- just to be clear, does LiveCode Server only work receiving requests from 
Apache/nginx/whatever? Or can it be run from the command line?


- is there a way to install ordinary LiveCode on a headless linux box? Or will 
the installer demand a GUI to complete?


Many thanks,

Ben

On 31/01/2021 02:22, Mark Talluto wrote:

Hi Ben,

My favorite method is to build server code with standalones and script only 
stacks. You can run them headless using the -ui method as you proposed earlier.
You can have the standalone act as a starter stack that loads in your script 
only stacks as libraries. This model makes it easy to do future updates 
because they are not built into the standalone itself.


Place standalone and stack files here:
- Apache
IP Number/home/standalone
/home/libaries/stack files here

- nginx
IP/usr/local/bin/standalone
/bin/libraries/stack files here

Each executable is always on for performance. They use very little cpu when 
they are waiting for something to do. In my experience, they rest a 0% between 
loops and jump to around 3% when checking on the workload. They will jump up 
to some other value when they are processing. When done, they return to the 
0-3% consumption.


We use PHP to receive incoming posts to the VM. After PHP does its thing, it 
passes the posted request to the LiveCode standalone. The process repeats 
itself as data is posted to the VM.


This has been a proven model for us. We have used it for many years with 
LiveCloud.


You can use this model in many ways. It will depend on what you are trying to 
accomplish.


Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




On Jan 30, 2021, at 8:34 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:


Hi Matthias,

Thanks for answering.

I haven't looked into Livecode Server. When you say I could run livecode 
scripts directly from shell, does that means scripts, but not stacks?


Is Livecode Server easier to install on a 'headless' system? Is there 
somewhere I should look to find explanation of differences/pros/cons of 
Server versus IDE editions?


thank you,

Ben

On 29/01/2021 20:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

Ben,
is there a reason why you do not install/use Livecode Server instead of 
Livecode IDE on your system?

You could run livecode scripts directly from shell.
Regards,
Matthias
-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
Am 29.01.2021 um 19:44 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:


So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - 
Ubuntu 20.


(Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)

I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd 
rather be able to do it with a stack.


The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough 
along to make use of this.


My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the 
installer, e.g. "LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to 
the server and run it there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?


Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?

And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?


Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide 
over here you idiot".


TIA,

Ben

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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[David Bovill via use-livecode]

Mark that is interesting. I would like to something similar during the Learning 
Cohort coding sprint over the next 12 weeks.

I’d be happy to write up documentation and create a community GitHub project 
around that approach including Nginx config etc?

   
 
   ***
   

   \\   //  
\\\//  ***
  \\\
   |||//   ,
   |__/
,,,//\,,o==o
;

Schedule a meeting using this link.
Writing and media work on Media Garden.

LinkedIn: David Bovill
Twitter: @fortyfoxes
On 31 Jan 2021, 16:07 +, Mark Talluto via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> One more thought came to mind. You should run the executable in the
> background by applying an & as in this example:
>
>
> ./yourCoolExecutable -ui &
>
>
> If you run the executable from terminal and you do not apply the & the
> executable will die as terminal quits.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Mark Talluto
>
> livecloud.io
>
> nursenotes.net
>
> canelasoftware.com 
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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

One more thought came to mind. You should run the executable in the
background by applying an & as in this example:


./yourCoolExecutable -ui &


If you run the executable from terminal and you do not apply the & the
executable will die as terminal quits.


Best regards,


Mark Talluto

livecloud.io

nursenotes.net

canelasoftware.com 
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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Mark Talluto via use-livecode]

Hi Ben,

My favorite method is to build server code with standalones and script only 
stacks. You can run them headless using the -ui method as you proposed earlier.
You can have the standalone act as a starter stack that loads in your script 
only stacks as libraries. This model makes it easy to do future updates because 
they are not built into the standalone itself.

Place standalone and stack files here:
- Apache
IP Number/home/standalone
/home/libaries/stack files here 

- nginx
IP/usr/local/bin/standalone
/bin/libraries/stack files here

Each executable is always on for performance. They use very little cpu when 
they are waiting for something to do. In my experience, they rest a 0% between 
loops and jump to around 3% when checking on the workload. They will jump up to 
some other value when they are processing. When done, they return to the 0-3% 
consumption.

We use PHP to receive incoming posts to the VM. After PHP does its thing, it 
passes the posted request to the LiveCode standalone. The process repeats 
itself as data is posted to the VM.

This has been a proven model for us. We have used it for many years with 
LiveCloud.

You can use this model in many ways. It will depend on what you are trying to 
accomplish. 

Best regards,

Mark Talluto
livecloud.io 
nursenotes.net 
canelasoftware.com 




> On Jan 30, 2021, at 8:34 AM, Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> Thanks for answering.
> 
> I haven't looked into Livecode Server. When you say I could run livecode 
> scripts directly from shell, does that means scripts, but not stacks?
> 
> Is Livecode Server easier to install on a 'headless' system? Is there 
> somewhere I should look to find explanation of differences/pros/cons of 
> Server versus IDE editions?
> 
> thank you,
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 29/01/2021 20:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Ben,
>> is there a reason why you do not install/use Livecode Server instead of 
>> Livecode IDE on your system?
>> You could run livecode scripts directly from shell.
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>> Am 29.01.2021 um 19:44 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - 
>>> Ubuntu 20.
>>> 
>>> (Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)
>>> 
>>> I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd 
>>> rather be able to do it with a stack.
>>> 
>>> The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough along 
>>> to make use of this.
>>> 
>>> My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the 
>>> installer, e.g. "LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to 
>>> the server and run it there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?
>>> 
>>> Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?
>>> 
>>> And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
>>> debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?
>>> 
>>> Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide 
>>> over here you idiot".
>>> 
>>> TIA,
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Hi Ben,

Livecode Server can only execute Livecode script files, but it can make use of 
stackfiles if you want to use the stack as a library for example.
I am sorry, if i cannot explain it more detailed. Ask me in German and i could 
tell you what i really mean. ;) 

But good example is this page here   https://splash21.com/sQuiRt.php

The sQuiRt library, which is now included in Livecode as a livecodescript 
library , was a stack library at the beginning.
On this demo page a sample livecode server script is shown that uses a 
stackfile library to create QR codes and shows the QR Code then  in the browser.

And here's the script in action
http://splash21.on-rev.com/index.lc 


Regards,
Matthias







-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 30.01.2021 um 17:34 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Matthias,
> 
> Thanks for answering.
> 
> I haven't looked into Livecode Server. When you say I could run livecode 
> scripts directly from shell, does that means scripts, but not stacks?
> 
> Is Livecode Server easier to install on a 'headless' system? Is there 
> somewhere I should look to find explanation of differences/pros/cons of 
> Server versus IDE editions?
> 
> thank you,
> 
> Ben
> 
> On 29/01/2021 20:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Ben,
>> is there a reason why you do not install/use Livecode Server instead of 
>> Livecode IDE on your system?
>> You could run livecode scripts directly from shell.
>> Regards,
>> Matthias
>> -
>> Matthias Rebbe
>> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>>> Am 29.01.2021 um 19:44 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - 
>>> Ubuntu 20.
>>> 
>>> (Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)
>>> 
>>> I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd 
>>> rather be able to do it with a stack.
>>> 
>>> The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough along 
>>> to make use of this.
>>> 
>>> My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the 
>>> installer, e.g. "LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to 
>>> the server and run it there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?
>>> 
>>> Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?
>>> 
>>> And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
>>> debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?
>>> 
>>> Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide 
>>> over here you idiot".
>>> 
>>> TIA,
>>> 
>>> Ben
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

Hi Matthias,

Thanks for answering.

I haven't looked into Livecode Server. When you say I could run livecode 
scripts directly from shell, does that means scripts, but not stacks?


Is Livecode Server easier to install on a 'headless' system? Is there 
somewhere I should look to find explanation of differences/pros/cons of Server 
versus IDE editions?


thank you,

Ben

On 29/01/2021 20:30, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

Ben,

is there a reason why you do not install/use Livecode Server instead of 
Livecode IDE on your system?

You could run livecode scripts directly from shell.


Regards,
Matthias


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code


Am 29.01.2021 um 19:44 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
:

So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - Ubuntu 
20.

(Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)

I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd rather 
be able to do it with a stack.

The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough along to 
make use of this.

My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the installer, e.g. 
"LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to the server and run it 
there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?

Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?

And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?

Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide over here 
you idiot".

TIA,

Ben

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Re: installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Ben,

is there a reason why you do not install/use Livecode Server instead of 
Livecode IDE on your system?

You could run livecode scripts directly from shell. 


Regards,
Matthias


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 29.01.2021 um 19:44 schrieb Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - Ubuntu 
> 20.
> 
> (Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)
> 
> I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd 
> rather be able to do it with a stack.
> 
> The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough along 
> to make use of this.
> 
> My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the 
> installer, e.g. "LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to the 
> server and run it there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?
> 
> Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?
> 
> And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
> debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?
> 
> Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide 
> over here you idiot".
> 
> TIA,
> 
> Ben
> 
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installing and running LC on 'headless' linux server

[Ben Rubinstein via use-livecode]

So I want to install LC on a headless - i.e. no GUI, access over SSH - Ubuntu 
20.

(Then I'll be using it to run a particular stack on a cron job.)

I've done this a long time ago with a standalone - but in this case I'd rather 
be able to do it with a stack.


The only thing that I know about is "-ui" but I'm not even far enough along to 
make use of this.


My first question is what's the best way to install it? Do I download the 
installer, e.g. "LiveCodeCommunityInstaller-9_6_1-Linux.x64", move it to the 
server and run it there? Or is that going to be a GUI installer?


Are there options I need to know about like where it should go?

And then are there tips about where I put my stacks, how to see error or 
debugging output, how the stack reads command line parameters etc?


Any and all advice welcome - especially of course "go and read this guide over 
here you idiot".


TIA,

Ben

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