Re: LC Server and forcing page refreshes

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Couldn't you disable the caching with meta html tags? See here for a explanation

https://cristian.sulea.net/blog/disable-browser-caching-with-meta-html-tags/



Regards,
Matthias


> Am 30.05.2023 um 02:32 schrieb Tim Selander via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.
> 
> I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on on-rev's 
> hosting site.
> 
> Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an LC 
> script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the database, 
> and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:
> 
> 
> 
> where vlink has the member's URL.
> 
> My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows the 
> old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.
> 
> The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the path 
> of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an image tag.
> 
> Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the cache so 
> the browser shows the new photo?
> 
> Many thanks.
> 
> Tim Selander
> Tokyo, Japan
> 
> 
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Re: LC Server and forcing page refreshes

[Ralf Bitter via use-livecode]

Hi Tim,

how about adding a query string in the form of a timestamp to the 
member’s URL like:


?foo=1685433742125


Ralf


On 30.05.2023 02:32, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote:

Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.

I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
on-rev's hosting site.


Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:


  

where vlink has the member's URL.

My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.


The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
image tag.


Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
cache so the browser shows the new photo?


Many thanks.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan




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Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

Thanks Henry, for confirming that Ventura runs on your 2012 iMac with OpenCore 
Legacy Patcher.

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 10:59 PM, HENRY LOWE via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy 
> Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.
> 
> Henry 

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Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!

[HENRY LOWE via use-livecode]

Mac OS Ventura runs just fine on my 2012 iMac courtesy of OpenCore Legacy 
Patcher. I don’t run LC on this machine - use a 2019 iMac for that.

Henry 

> On May 29, 2023, at 7:42 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac
> 
> You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.
> 
> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal 
>> graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
>> 
>> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first 
>> post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as 
>> metal got emulated on older hardware.
>> 
>> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, 
>> though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
>> 
>> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
>> 
>> 
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OpenCore Legacy Patcher Supports 2012 iMac!

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

https://dortania.github.io/OpenCore-Legacy-Patcher/MODELS.html#imac

You are very lucky!  You must have looked at an old post.

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 29, 2023, at 1:11 PM, doc hawk via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal 
> graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.
> 
> There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first 
> post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as 
> metal got emulated on older hardware.
> 
> This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, 
> though—I’m curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.
> 
> But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.
> 
> 
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LC Server and forcing page refreshes

[Tim Selander via use-livecode]

Once again find myself over my head in just a simple programming project.

I made a little club members directory website, using LC server on 
on-rev's hosting site.


Members can edit their info. I use a form, with the action going to an 
LC script. This script gets all the post data, shuffles it off to the 
database, and then goes back to the member's page using a re-direct:


 

where vlink has the member's URL.

My Problem: If folk update their photos, their browser cache still shows 
the old picture -- logically leading them to think the update failed.


The photos are simply stored on the server, the database only stores the 
path of the file. The photo file shown on the member's page with an 
image tag.


Can any of the gurus here tell me how to get the page to ignore the 
cache so the browser shows the new photo?


Many thanks.

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan


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Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

No problems with LC that I have found so far.

> On May 29, 2023, at 11:17 AM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?

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Re: LC compilation

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Mike, sorry I thought it would have been copied with the reply. The original 
post from Skip Kimpel was more or less asking if LC is compiled. The exact post 
was…

"Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not 
currently compilable??

SKIP”

I do have a question based on your reply. You indicate LC doesn’t compile but 
then go on to list all of the stuff it compiles into a standalone application 
(most of which, such as the LC engine, extensions, libraries, etc) are just (I 
would argue) libraries when it builds an application. Taking the definition of 
compiler as “a process to convert (a program) into a machine-code 

 or a lower-level 

 form in which the program can be executed.” I would argue it “sort of” does 
that in that the included scripts (as I understand it) are not in their 
original editable form but have been converted into something that is more 
easily interpreted by the engine. I know it’s not ML, nor is it bytecode, but 
it’s one step removed from the actually editable text in the script editor. 
Would’t you agree?

The true advantage of the byte code, I believe, is that it brings LC in line 
with other similar compilers and therefore allows a more sophisticated (and 
standardised) approach to code optimisation. Or at least that will be one of 
the advantages. Obfuscation of code, as you mention, is another (although I 
have never personally worried about anyone wanting to steal my code ). 

Mark


> On 29 May 2023, at 5:56 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
> LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
> platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
> libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
> bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
> app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
> with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
> The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
> from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
> platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
> real-time code execution trivially.
> For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
> in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
> command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:
> 
> on mouseUp
>   global gDo
>   ask "Do what?" with gDo
>   if it is not empty then
>  put it into gDo
>  do gDo
>   end if
> end mouseUp
> 
> The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
> command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
> button.
> This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
> debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
> the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
> breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
> the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"
> 
> We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
> last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
> not a ML compiler.
> 
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no 
>> expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at 
>> articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone 
>> else can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better 
>> anyway).
>> 
>> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some 
>> sort of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be 
>> executed by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is 
>> mostly Obj C (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree 
>> structures created in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of 
>> compiled? Compiled to execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted 
>> because the tree code is not executed on the target platform directly but is 
>> interpreted by the engine to generate the final executable result.
>> 
>> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to 
>> create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a 
>> possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is 
>> the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a 

Re: Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

If memory serves, the problem with older machines was not running the metal 
graphical system, as they lacked the hardware.

There were some near-contemporaneous patches that allowed at least the first 
post-mohave osx to run, put were reported as glacially and painfully slow as 
metal got emulated on older hardware.

This says that the patch allows supporter non-metal graphical cards, though—I’m 
curious how that would work on apple stuff that calls to metal.

But, alas, the 2012 iMac isn’t the list, so I guess I’m out of luck anyway.


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Re: LC compilation

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

I don't see the original post, so I can only part-comment on this.
LC doesn't compile, per se. It builds standalone apps for all
platforms, but those apps include the LC engine, extensions,
libraries, and your stack(s). There is an obfuscator, but, no, no
bytecode or ML, yet. The apps behave as you would expect a standalone
app to behave, but, with a disassembler, you will have an easier time
with them than you would with a ML or BC compiled app.
The good news is that the current architecture makes remote debugging
from mobes much simpler, and, whether you are on a desktop or mobile
platform, you can include functionality such as side-loading and
real-time code execution trivially.
For example, let's say you have a debug build. If you include a button
in your debug build, with the following script, you can prompt for a
command, and execute it, live, in your standalone:

on mouseUp
   global gDo
   ask "Do what?" with gDo
   if it is not empty then
  put it into gDo
  do gDo
   end if
end mouseUp

The above script will also, as I am sure you deduced, store the last
command you typed, and prompt you with it, the next time you press the
button.
This is, of course, especially useful if you want to invoke the
debugger and then debug some routine. You can do that like by clicking
the button I just described, and then typing into the dialog:
breakpoint;send "mouseUp" to button "someButton" # steps you through
the debug button script, then to the mouseUp handler of "someButton"

We are all patiently waiting for the script compiler, which, as of
last conversation with Mark W., is going to be a bytecode compiler,
not a ML compiler.

On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:27 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
 wrote:
>
> Hi Skip,
>
> I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no 
> expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at 
> articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else 
> can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).
>
> So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort 
> of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed 
> by the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C 
> (or some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created 
> in the first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to 
> execute in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is 
> not executed on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine 
> to generate the final executable result.
>
> As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to 
> create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a 
> possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is 
> the tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of 
> byte codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more 
> fully. This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my 
> wheelhouse) is similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — 
> which I do know was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… 
> although companies like Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that 
> executed directly on the target platform without any interpretation) produce. 
> So, it would bring the LC compiled code more in line with what other 
> compilers are producing which means post compilation the code could be 
> optimised more completely using well developed industry standard approaches. 
> And so everything ends up a little smaller and faster but it also opens the 
> door to doing other things with the script code down the road.
>
> Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. 
> But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark
>
>
>
> > On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not 
> > currently compilable??
> >
> > SKIP
> >
> >> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Skip,
> >>
> >> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and 
> >> then it will be more possible.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> >>>
> >>> Curious minds want to know :)
> >>>
> >>> SKIP
> >>
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > 

Re: OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

It's on my to-do list but I haven't got to it yet. Is there a problem with LC?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 29, 2023 8:30:00 AM harrison--- via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Is there anyone on this list that has tried
OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
on their old mac?

Let me know.

Thanks,

Rick

On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Hi LC Mac users,

Last week I came across the following:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher

I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new 
machine

running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too!

After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible
it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are
perfectly capable.

It behaves well with LC too!

Check it out and let me know what you think.

Cheers,

Rick
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OpenCore Legacy Patcher for LC

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

Is there anyone on this list that has tried
OpenCore Legacy Patcher to run LiveCode
on their old mac?

Let me know.

Thanks,

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:54 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi LC Mac users,
> 
> Last week I came across the following:
> 
> https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher
> 
> I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
> that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new 
> machine
> running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 
> 
> After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
> it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
> perfectly capable.  
> 
> It behaves well with LC too!
> 
> Check it out and let me know what you think.  
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Rick
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Re: LC compilation

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Skip,

I’m surprised no one has taken a stab at answering this. I'm certainly no 
expert on the internal workings of LC or compilers but I can take a stab at 
articulating what I think the answer is, and when I get it wrong someone else 
can jump in to correct me (I should probably know this stuff better anyway).

So if I am correct, the current environment converts LC script into some sort 
of (possibly binary) tree structure that is better organised to be executed by 
the LC engine. The engine is a big chunk of what I think is mostly Obj C (or 
some relative thereof) code that interprets the tree structures created in the 
first phase. So I guess that makes it sort of compiled? Compiled to execute 
in/on the LC engine, but also interpreted because the tree code is not executed 
on the target platform directly but is interpreted by the engine to generate 
the final executable result. 

As far as the script compiler project is concerned, I believe the goal is to 
create a byte code stream that can be interpreted more efficiently by (a 
possibly new?) engine. Not sure about the new engine part, but the idea is the 
tree structure thing goes away and in its place is a linear stream of byte 
codes that can both be executed more effiencetly but also optimised more fully. 
This particular byte stream (and here I’m going way outside my wheelhouse) is 
similar to what other compilers like Java, Python, (Pascal? — which I do know 
was a byte code compiled run time interpreted language… although companies like 
Borland eventually wrote Pascal compilers that executed directly on the target 
platform without any interpretation) produce. So, it would bring the LC 
compiled code more in line with what other compilers are producing which means 
post compilation the code could be optimised more completely using well 
developed industry standard approaches. And so everything ends up a little 
smaller and faster but it also opens the door to doing other things with the 
script code down the road. 

Well, that's my take on Mark Waddinghams’ most recent seminar on this topic. 
But he assuredly can fill you in much better than I can.

Cheers,
Mark



> On 28 May 2023, at 3:54 pm, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently 
> compilable??
> 
> SKIP
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Skip,
>> 
>> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and 
>> then it will be more possible.
>> 
>> Rick
>> 
>>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>>> 
>>> Curious minds want to know :)
>>> 
>>> SKIP
>> 
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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Re: android remote debugger

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

That's happened to me twice over the years and nothing I could do fixed it 
until a new LC version was released, where suddenly it started working 
again. I don't think it's LC, it is something in the OS. I tried fiddling 
with system prefs permissions but it didn't help. The two instances were 
years apart and I still don't know why.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 28, 2023 7:21:05 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
 wrote:



i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
debugger to run.
it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
with the breakpoint command.

--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
  and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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android remote debugger

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

i'm back to futzing with android, again, now trying to get the remote
debugger to run.
it's included with the stack, but i can't seem to get it to fire, even
with the breakpoint command.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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Re: AR applications?

[Skip Kimpel via use-livecode]

Wait… what?  I have been away from this list for a while, LC is not currently 
compilable??

SKIP

> On May 27, 2023, at 4:39 PM, harrison--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Skip,
> 
> Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and 
> then it will be more possible.
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
>> 
>> Curious minds want to know :)
>> 
>> SKIP
> 
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WordReport 1.3 - Order Download Link fixed

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

WordReport's after-order Download Link fixed in CurryK/SendOwl store.

(And an unrelated WordReport delivery issue fixed by LC in their store.)

Thanks Fernando Riccio and Heather!

Anyone previously affected, please use the Download on the page below.

More news soon

Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

WordReport: Professional pre-formatted reports
for MS Word and OpenOffice files in LiveCode!
http://livecodeaddons.com/wordreport.html

Radically Innovative Christian LiveCode Development
"Passion for Elegant and Efficient Code"
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Did you try Cmd-tab to cycle to another app and back? Does it also work if 
you bring another app to the front and then use the dock to return to LC? 
If so that would be good news.


I did find a backdrop glitch in a standalone on Monterey. Only one window 
showed where there should have been two.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 27, 2023 10:06:43 AM Richmond via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with
MacOS Ventura.

Kisses, Richmond.

On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:

Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Bob Sneidar wrote:

  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
  > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front


Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Run LC on old Mac with Ventura!

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

Hi LC Mac users,

Last week I came across the following:

https://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/64141/opencore-legacy-patcher

I was very skeptical at first, so I took out my old 15 inch 2012 MacBook Pro
that I was thinking about recycling, and I tried it.  It works like a new 
machine
running Ventura!  It’s fast enough too! 

After I saw how good it works, all I could think of was how terrible 
it is that Apple has sidelined all of these old computers, that are 
perfectly capable.  

It behaves well with LC too!

Check it out and let me know what you think.  

Cheers,

Rick
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

i just tried, again, with the v.4 model.
it is now literally inventing documentation (which it presents,
formatted similarly to the way the dictionary appears), claims that it
can be found in the dictionary, and provides links to examples (which,
of course, are broken), and proceeds to insist that it is correct,
even after being told to load the pages in question.

On Thu, May 25, 2023 at 11:06 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
 wrote:
>
> I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. 
> For instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So 
> I came up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a 
> datagrid, where I can select a column from the table, and then wherever I 
> click next, it will create a field and label in a group, all named after the 
> column wherever I click next. The fields I produce also have a property for 
> the column name, so when I populate a form, I provide an array of the 
> datagrid data to the handler which iterates through all the fields looking 
> for that property, and fills the fields with data from that array.
>
> So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious 
> by doing some coding on the front end.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> -Original Message-
> Hi Mike,
>
> Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve 
> seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as 
> no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax 
> to deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it 
> can get tedious.
>
> Mark
>
> > On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> > gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> > not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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Re: AR applications?

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

Hi Skip,

Doubtful.  I would wait until after we have a compilable version of LC and then 
it will be more possible.

Rick

> On May 27, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Skip Kimpel via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?
> 
> Curious minds want to know :)
> 
> SKIP

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AR applications?

[Skip Kimpel via use-livecode]

Has anybody done anything with LC and AR?

Curious minds want to know :)

SKIP

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Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[Richmond via use-livecode]

Note that the LC backdrop with LC 9.6.3 community works just fine with 
MacOS Ventura.


Kisses, Richmond.

On 27.05.23 6:58, panagiotis m via use-livecode wrote:

Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Bob Sneidar wrote:

  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
  > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front


Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Will this be fixed?
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 26, 2023 11:01:09 PM panagiotis m via use-livecode 
 wrote:



Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos





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Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[panagiotis m via use-livecode]

Hello all,

Note that the LC backdrop does not work on MacOS Ventura.

Cheers,
Panos

On Fri, 26 May 2023, 22:23 J. Landman Gay via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> > Bob Sneidar wrote:
> >
> >  > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> >  > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> >  > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> >  > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> >  > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> >  > window.
> >
> > The OS vendors help with that too:
> >
> > Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"
> >
> > macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front
> >
>
> Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>
> ___
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Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 5/26/23 1:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
 > app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
 > window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
 > the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
 > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front



Clicking the icon in the Mac Dock also brings all windows forward.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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RE: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Huh. Windows not working for me. I'll try MacOS when I get my laptop up and 
running again. MacOS Update bricked the boot volume. Again. For the 3rd time. 

Bob S 

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of Richard 
Gaskin via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2023 11:14 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Richard Gaskin 
Subject: Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

Bob Sneidar wrote:

 > HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
 > If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another  > app's window, 
 > then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC  > window will appear in the 
 > foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL  > the LC windows will become visible when 
 > you tab to any LC  > window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

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Re: The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Bob Sneidar wrote:

> HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is!
> If you have multiple LC windows open and you tab to another
> app's window, then tab back to the LC window, ONLY that LC
> window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop on, ALL
> the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC
> window.

The OS vendors help with that too:

Windows: Shift-click Taskbar icon -> "Bring All Windows Forward"

macOS:   Window menu -> Bring All to Front

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

Hi Klaus,

The mouse receiving device is a USB plug or dongle.
At the very worst you might have to find an adaptor.
It should work!

Rick

On May 26, 2023, at 3:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Hi Rick,

Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode 
:

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect 
too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does 
not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

Have fun!

Rick

On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
 wrote:
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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The Backdrop's Purpose In Life

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

HA! I just figured out what the purpose of the backdrop is! If you have 
multiple LC windows open and you tab to another app's window, then tab back to 
the LC window, ONLY that LC window will appear in the foreground. With Backdrop 
on, ALL the LC windows will become visible when you tab to any LC window.

All these years and I never knew that.

Bob S
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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

> Am 26.05.2023 um 10:39 schrieb Richmond via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1=usb+foot+pedal=1685090338=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107=8-4
> 
> On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
>> bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF 
>> leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to 
>> buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to 
>> browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
>> if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways 
>> to add
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
>> 
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Klaus

:-)

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Richmond via use-livecode]

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Optical-Computer-Keyboard-Fortnite-Transcription/dp/B08QZ4H31C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WJV976H8HKK1=usb+foot+pedal=1685090338=USb+foot+pedal%2Caps%2C107=8-4

On 25.05.23 18:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi friends,

I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
bands.

Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
(= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. 
:-)

There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).

Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if 
they
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

Thanks for any hint!

P.S.
Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to 
add
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Matthias,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html

yep, I will need something like this, thank you!

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included 
> software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other 
> devices without any additonal software. As most Android devices will support 
> USB keyboards, this should work. 

I am counting on this fact! :-)

> If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a 
> memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the 
> PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an 
> external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it 
> in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have a SD card in my old Samsung cell phone and tried exactly this, but did 
not work.
I checked "external storage" in the STAB, installed the test app and connected 
the phone to my Mac.
Then I copied an image into the appropriate "com.whatever...". (sub)folder on 
the SD but LC did not 
see the file in -> specialfolderpath("external documents")!?
Did I do it wrong?

> I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i 
> have to check its os version first.

That would be wonderful, Matthias. Please conact me privately.
LC needs at least Android 5.1.

Thanks a lot!

There is even a feature request/bug report for accessing more public Android 
folders:


> Regards,
> Matthias

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Sean,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 00:24 schrieb Pi Digital via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Klaus
> Get something like this. 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=kxdzbfgltem=2349624=GspHaDqVTAS=_ver=artemis=COPY
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The 
> hub will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual 
> Bluetooth lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub 
> and listen for messages. 
> There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for 
> RaspPi
> https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html
> All the best buddy. 

thank you, I actually want an easy and more straighforward solution.

> Sean Cole
> Pi Digital

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Rick,

> Am 26.05.2023 um 03:32 schrieb harrison--- via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Klaus,
> 
> A  quick and really dirty solution:
> 
> Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
> and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect 
> too!

thank you.

However I said I will need a USB device, since LC on Android (ANDROID!) does 
not 
support bluetooth/wireless.

> Have fun!
> 
> Rick
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

Best

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

Hi Klaus,

A  quick and really dirty solution:

Find an old wireless or BlueTooth computer mouse that you really don’t like,
and use it as a foot switch.  That will be super easy for LiveCode to detect 
too!

Have fun!

Rick

> On May 25, 2023, at 6:24 PM, Pi Digital via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. 

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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Pi Digital via use-livecode]

Hi Klaus
Get something like this. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/404250759038?mkcid=16=1=711-127632-2357-0=kxdzbfgltem=2349624=GspHaDqVTAS=_ver=artemis=COPY
A usb footswitch will work like a mouse but with a different signature. The hub 
will be picked up via the tablet in a LiveCode app through the usual Bluetooth 
lib. Once it’s in you need to connect to the usb port from the hub and listen 
for messages. 

There are also these which work even better with built in BT - designed for 
RaspPi
https://dylanbeattie.net/2020/05/17/turning-a-raspberry-pi-zero-into-a-usb-footpedal.html

All the best buddy. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 25 May 2023, at 17:44, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode 
>> :
>> Klaus,
>> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it 
>> supports pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for 
>> displaying realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among 
>> concert musicians as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that 
>> displays the scores at full page size and supports apple pencil annotating 
>> of scores. It's main drawback is the documentation for the app was written 
>> by the programmer and it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
>> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of 
>> music a lot easier.
> 
> sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.
> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Klaus,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 22:32 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Klaus, 
> 
> this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
> https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html
> 
> 
The following refers to the switch of the above link and not for all usb 
switches.

> The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included 
> software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other 
> devices without any additonal software.
> As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Klaus, 

this footswitch for example is detected as HID device. 
https://www.scythe-eu.com/produkte/pc-zubehoer/usb-foot-switch-ii.html


The functions of the switch(es) have to be configured with the included 
software on a Windows PC first. After that the switch can be used on other 
devices without any additonal software.
As most Android devices will support USB keyboards, this should work. 

If the Android device has a memory card slot you could store the PDFs on a 
memory card and let your LC app then access this storage card. To update the 
PDF files you eihter have  to connect your tablet with your PC or Mac as an 
external drive or you could remove the memory card from the tablet and use it 
in a cardreader on a PC or Mac.

I have here an older table laying around which I could send to you. But i have 
to check its os version first.

Regards,
Matthias

> Am 25.05.2023 um 21:49 schrieb Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi Mark,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Hi friends,
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
>>> bands.
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF 
>>> leadsheets
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to 
>>> buy. :-)
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to 
>>> browse
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
>>> if they
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
>> 
> 
> since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. 
> Or does it?
> Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)
> 
> Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the 
> job.
> But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so 
> LC will support it.
> 
>> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to 
>> three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.
> 
> I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem 
> for me, Sir! :-D
> 
> 
> However my two questions are still unanswered.
> 1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
> if they
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
> 
> 2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other 
> ways to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
>> -- 
>> Mark Wieder
>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de 
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de 
> 
> 
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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Mark,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:
>> Hi friends,
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
>> bands.
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF 
>> leadsheets
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to 
>> buy. :-)
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to 
>> browse
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
>> if they
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.
> 

since LC does not support bluetooth on Android (yet?), I need an USB device. Or 
does it?
Remember, I want to do it by myself! :-)

Already found a cheap USB device on Amazhon which looks like it could do the 
job.
But first I need to get a cheap tablet with a not too old Android version, so 
LC will support it.

> At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down to 
> three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.

I am retired, don't have family and a lot more time than money, no problem for 
me, Sir! :-D


However my two questions are still unanswered.
1. Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
if they
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?

2. Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways 
to add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 5/25/23 08:22, Klaus major-k via use-livecode wrote:

Hi friends,

I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
bands.

Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets
(= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. 
:-)

There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse
through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).

Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if 
they
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC?
Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?


I use a Lekato Page Turner. It also works with my Lekato Looper.



At one point I was also managing to play in four bands. Knocking it down 
to three simplified my life immensely. Highly recommended.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 18:31 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode 
> :
> Klaus,
> I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports 
> pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying 
> realbook scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians 
> as well. Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at 
> full page size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main 
> drawback is the documentation for the app was written by the programmer and 
> it's pretty unclear. I love the app anyway, though.
> Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music 
> a lot easier.

sure, but I can definitively only afford a used Android tablet.

> Best,
> Bill

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Klaus,
I'm not sure if it is supported on Android, but on an apple ipad, it supports 
pdf display, foot switch (pager) and even has an addon for displaying realbook 
scores in different keys. It's very popular among concert musicians as well. 
Personally, I bought a large screen ipad that displays the scores at full page 
size and supports apple pencil annotating of scores. It's main drawback is the 
documentation for the app was written by the programmer and it's pretty 
unclear. I love the app anyway, though.

Downside is that the ipad is expensive, but sure makes keeping track of music a 
lot easier.

Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
>> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Klaus,
>> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and 
>> it's cheap.
> 
> thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches 
> and if one can "easily" 
> import own PDF files from the device itself!?
> 
> And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
> So my questions are still unanswered
> 
>> Bill Prothero
>> 
>> William A. Prothero, PhD
>> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
>> University of California, Santa Barbara
>> 
 On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi friends,
>>> 
>>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
>>> bands.
>>> 
>>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF 
>>> leadsheets 
>>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to 
>>> buy. :-)
>>> 
>>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to 
>>> browse 
>>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>>> 
>>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
>>> if they 
>>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>>> 
>>> Thanks for any hint!
>>> 
>>> P.S.
>>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other 
>>> ways to add 
>>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> 
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi Bill,

> Am 25.05.2023 um 17:41 schrieb William Prothero via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Klaus,
> I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and 
> it's cheap.

thank you, but what the webpage does not tell is, if it supports footswitches 
and if one can "easily" 
import own PDF files from the device itself!?

And I wanted create this by myself, just for the fun of it. :-)
So my questions are still unanswered

> Bill Prothero
> 
> William A. Prothero, PhD
> Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> 
>> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi friends,
>> 
>> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
>> bands.
>> 
>> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
>> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF 
>> leadsheets 
>> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to 
>> buy. :-)
>> 
>> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to 
>> browse 
>> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
>> 
>> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means 
>> if they 
>> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
>> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
>> 
>> Thanks for any hint!
>> 
>> P.S.
>> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways 
>> to add 
>> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?

Best

Klaus

--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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Re: Android and USB footswitch

[William Prothero via use-livecode]

Klaus,
I'm a musician/hobbyist too. Check out iGigbook. It does all that stuff and 
it's cheap.
Bill Prothero

William A. Prothero, PhD
Prof Emeritus, Dept of Earth Science
University of California, Santa Barbara

> On May 25, 2023, at 8:23 AM, Klaus major-k via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi friends,
> 
> I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
> bands.
> 
> Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
> So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF 
> leadsheets 
> (= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. 
> :-)
> 
> There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to 
> browse 
> through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).
> 
> Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if 
> they 
> will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
> Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?
> 
> Thanks for any hint!
> 
> P.S.
> Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways 
> to add 
> some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?
> 
> 
> Best
> 
> Klaus
> --
> Klaus Major
> https://www.major-k.de
> https://www.major-k.de/bass
> kl...@major-k.de
> 
> 
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Android and USB footswitch

[Klaus major-k via use-livecode]

Hi friends,

I'm still an active musician (bass guitar) and am currently playing in four 
bands.

Nowadays bulky music stands on stage are OUT and tablets are IN!
So I am considering to create a little app for myself to display PDF leadsheets 
(= lyrics and chord symbols) on an Andorid tablet, which I still have to buy. 
:-)

There are some USB footswitches, and I would like to use one of them to browse 
through the (multipage) PDFs (next page, previous page).

Anyone knows if these switches will act like an "external keyboard", means if 
they 
will just send any RAWKEY that I could catch in LC? 
Or will I need something created with LCB to do so?

Thanks for any hint!

P.S.
Since PDFs are not accessible via "mobilepickmedia" are there ANY other ways to 
add 
some PDFs later without having to download them from some URL?


Best

Klaus
--
Klaus Major
https://www.major-k.de
https://www.major-k.de/bass
kl...@major-k.de


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RE: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I create datagrids with some properties that help me with database queries. For 
instance one property is the name of the table I source for the data. So I came 
up with the idea of popping up a menu when I right click on a datagrid, where I 
can select a column from the table, and then wherever I click next, it will 
create a field and label in a group, all named after the column wherever I 
click next. The fields I produce also have a property for the column name, so 
when I populate a form, I provide an array of the datagrid data to the handler 
which iterates through all the fields looking for that property, and fills the 
fields with data from that array. 

So while creating forms is tedious, it can be made a good deal less tedious by 
doing some coding on the front end. 

Bob S


-Original Message-
Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve 
seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as 
no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to 
deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can 
get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still 
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?


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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Mike, 

Not that I’m aware of. Apart from Richard’s utility, the only other way I’ve 
seen used is dragging items from the tools palette. Not a terrible process as 
no-code is involved in doing so (so you don’t have frustrations with syntax to 
deal with), but as Jacque points out, if you have a lot of this to do, it can 
get tedious. 

Mark

> On 23 May 2023, at 8:31 pm, Mike Kerner via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?

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Re: Android Status Bar Icon

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Oops I see you already did a 24x24. That's the suggested size. Maybe see 
what a 16 x 16 does.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
with LC and Android 9?


Anyone have any insight to this issue?

-Dan
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Re: Android Status Bar Icon

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Try 24 x 24.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 24, 2023 11:58:37 AM Dan Friedman via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears 
in a push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 
PNG for the Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device 
running Android 10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is 
there an image size that I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility 
with LC and Android 9?


Anyone have any insight to this issue?

-Dan
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Android Status Bar Icon

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Greetings!   I am seeing inconsistent results on the status bar icon on 
Android.  On some devices (most running Android 9), the icon that appears in a 
push message is a white or grey square.  I have tried using a 24x24 PNG for the 
Status Bar Icon and I also tried a 512x512.   Another device running Android 
10, displays the image just fine (at either size).  Is there an image size that 
I should be using?  Or are there incompatibility with LC and Android 9?

Anyone have any insight to this issue?

-Dan
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

interesting piece on ycombinator on chatgpt and code:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36037559

over the weekend, i was messing around with websockets, and decided to
try messing with chatgpt to build a little library to implement a
websocket client in lc.
the results were ungreat.

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 3:31 PM Mike Kerner  wrote:
>
> didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
> gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
> not) have the ability to build forms from db's?
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
>  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little 
> > utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you 
> > had a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts 
> > showing how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little 
> > widget could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back 
> > to you on that.
> >
> > > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
> > >  wrote:
> > >
> > > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
> > > metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in 
> > > ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe 
> > > that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined 
> > > LiveCodeJournal.com  in the works...
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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Re: websockets...anything?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

i'm also more interested in using lc as a client on mobes than as a server.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 8:48 AM Mike Kerner  wrote:
>
> yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
> not going back.
> anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
> then decided to ask, instead.
> i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
> unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
> point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
> said "oh, sorry, no bueño"
>
> On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
>  wrote:
> >
> > You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> > websocket server
> >
> > https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
> >
> > On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Check out this forum post.
> > >
> > > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672=221502
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod  wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nope.
> > > >
> > > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > > it.
> > > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > > someone else to do it?
> > > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > > sockets have been around?
> > > > Shrug.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > > >>and did a little diving.
> > > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > > >> ___
> > > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > >> subscription preferences:
> > > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > ___
> > > use-livecode mailing list
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > > subscription preferences:
> > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."



-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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Re: websockets...anything?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

yeah, i'm off the forums, permanently. i dumped my account, and i'm
not going back.
anyway, i'm not opposed to teaming up. i started reading the RFC, and
then decided to ask, instead.
i also asked chatgpt to help write some code. it was not only
unhelpful, it made up crap that was complete BS. then it tried to
point me to "mergWebSocket", until I called BS, again, and it finally
said "oh, sorry, no bueño"

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:43 AM Dan Brown via use-livecode
 wrote:
>
> You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
> websocket server
>
> https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd
>
> On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
> > Check out this forum post.
> >
> > https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672=221502
> >
> > On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod  wrote:
> >
> > > Nope.
> > >
> > > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> > it.
> > > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > > someone else to do it?
> > > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > > sockets have been around?
> > > Shrug.
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> > >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> > >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> > >>and did a little diving.
> > >> And God said, "This is good."
> > >> ___
> > >> use-livecode mailing list
> > >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > >> subscription preferences:
> > >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> > >>
> > >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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Re: websockets...anything?

[Dan Brown via use-livecode]

You could use STDIN / STDOUT from livecode to communicate with this
websocket server

https://github.com/joewalnes/websocketd

On Wed, 24 May 2023, 01:28 Tom Glod via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Check out this forum post.
>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672=221502
>
> On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod  wrote:
>
> > Nope.
> >
> > I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement
> it.
> > Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> > someone else to do it?
> > Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> > sockets have been around?
> > Shrug.
> >
> > On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> >> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
> >>
> >> --
> >> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> >> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> >> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
> >>and did a little diving.
> >> And God said, "This is good."
> >> ___
> >> use-livecode mailing list
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
> >>
> >
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: websockets...anything?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Check out this forum post.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?t=37672=221502

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 8:24 PM Tom Glod  wrote:

> Nope.
>
> I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
> Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for
> someone else to do it?
> Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
> sockets have been around?
> Shrug.
>
> On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>>
>> --
>> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
>> On the second day, God created the oceans.
>> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>>and did a little diving.
>> And God said, "This is good."
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
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Re: websockets...anything?

[Tom Glod via use-livecode]

Nope.

I'm wondering how long it would take to go look at specs and implement it.
Anyone in for a team effort? and we get it done without waiting for someone
else to do it?
Or is there a reason why it hasn't been done in all the years that web
sockets have been around?
Shrug.

On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:24 AM Mike Kerner via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> any news from anyone on lc+websockets?
>
> --
> On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
> On the second day, God created the oceans.
> On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
>and did a little diving.
> And God said, "This is good."
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

didn't the old db library (which is still included with LC, and still
gets built into every standalone, whether you choose to include it or
not) have the ability to build forms from db's?

On Tue, May 23, 2023 at 10:49 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode
 wrote:
>
> Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little 
> utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had 
> a lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing 
> how to do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget 
> could come in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on 
> that.
>
> > On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
> > metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in 
> > ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe 
> > that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com 
> >  in the works...
> >
>
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-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."

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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Thanks Richard. Worked as advertised, and nicely done. For a simple little 
utility I could see that it could save an enormous amount of time if you had a 
lot of forms to create. Actually I am working on a demo of sorts showing how to 
do no-code integration of SQL tables into LC and this little widget could come 
in very handy as a “quick form” builder. I may get back to you on that. 

> On 19 May 2023, at 4:51 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
> metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation in 
> ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe that'll 
> be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined LiveCodeJournal.com 
>  in the works...
> 

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websockets...anything?

[Mike Kerner via use-livecode]

any news from anyone on lc+websockets?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: XAVVI and app/code copyright

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

I’m saying that in the US, it isn’t clear *that* there would be copyright 
protection for what the AI generated. The current caselaw for patents is that a 
machine can’t be a creator—but patent and copyright function differently 
(although I ultimately would expect the same answer for that particular 
question).


The changes made to the AI output would belong to the person that made them, 
regardless of the other answers.

But suppose that the AI output is subject to copyright.  If you took that, and 
changed it, and then someone asked the same or similar question, getting 
similar code from the AI, that wouldn’t be "derived from” your output from the 
same question, and thus would be separately eligible for copyright by that 
person.

Merely being identical is *not* a violation of copyright!
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Smith wrote:

> On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> If you need to do that again:
>> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev
>
> Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

"It makes forms." :)

I have a large number of simple tools (a GB by now?) I've made to help 
with things I've worked on over the years. They're not like products or 
anything, just simple stuff to get a job done.


In this case, it reduces the steps needed to make a simple text entry 
form down to the one thing that will always require variance: the names 
of the fields.  Type those in the field provided, click a button, and it 
creates a label and entry field for each line you'd entered, all inside 
a group so you can easily handle appearance things like text font and 
size, and script binding by looping through all members of the group (I 
tend to populate sets of fields from arrays, with field names matching 
keys so one simple handler gives me binding everywhere quickly without 
having to think about it).


Having a good GUI layout tool like LC valuable.
Having it scriptable to automate common tasks is invaluable.


Some day I'll get around to doing a writeup on a layout construction 
metalanguage I was working on a while back to extend layout automation 
in ways that provide the most construction with the least typing. Maybe 
that'll be a good kickoff for the radically-reimagined 
LiveCodeJournal.com in the works...


--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Hi Richard, do you have a short introduction to FormMaker?

> On 18 May 2023, at 10:14 pm, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you need to do that again:
> 
> http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev 
> 

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Re: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Jacque, well said. And I am also happy. It is a giant step forward for the 
platform (especially when you add in the other new capabilities). Congrats to 
everyone who contributed, and to Kevin and all the LC team. We made it happen. 

> On 18 May 2023, at 6:22 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes 
> clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create 
> handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI 
> knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, 
> doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 
> other coding languages.
> 
> Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that the 
> LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are free 
> to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm betting 
> most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or to expedite 
> certain tasks.
> 
> We made the challenge! I'm happy.
> 
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just 
>> the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would 
>> end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work 
>> would then be done.
>> 
>> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the 
>> “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>> 
>> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
>> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: XAVVI and app/code copyright

[Linda Miller via use-livecode]

All that it would take is a simple statement from LC ltd to clear it up.

But, I am not really worried about it. I am just curious.

Linda

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Re: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[Terry Judd via use-livecode]

My day to day work is in medical education – and assessment specifically. I’m 
interested in using LLMs to (1) help generate assessment items (well draft 
versions of them at least) and (2) individualised descriptive feedback based on 
assessment performance.

But, rather than trying to get LC/Xavvi to do it all I think I’ll likely end up 
using LC draw on the relevant data to construct an appropriate query, passing 
that to the LLM (ChatGPT, BioMedLM or whatever) via API to generate and return 
the response, and then having LC deal with it from there (e.g. upload to 
assessment item bank for further work; assemble and distribute feedback report).

A few hours yesterday spent crafting and refining inputs and queries suggests 
that’s all entirely possible.

Should be fun!

> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire
> just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all
> would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real”
> work would then be done.
>
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the
> “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
>
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 5/18/23 4:14 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

J. Landman Gay wrote:

 > I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
 > hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
 > entry fields.

If you need to do that again:

http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev



Cool. That does help with alignment and field creation. It would still need some tinkering to 
get the sizes and properties right but it's a quick start.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

J. Landman Gay wrote:

> I had to make a form yesterday with lots of fields and while it isn't
> hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything and align the labels and
> entry fields.

If you need to do that again:

http://fourthworld.net/lc/4W_FormMaker.rev

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Livecode enhancements

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

I ran into another time today where having the ability to define data 
structures (or templates) in Livecode would be a significant enhancement 
(for me at least) to the language.


I see these 2 enhancement requests that cover defining data 
structures/templates, although they are suggesting different things:


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=4183
and
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9033

I may have missed some other enhancement for the same or similar 
feature. If you know of one, please let me know. I realize most work on 
livecode enhancements will be to support Xavvi and Livecode on the web 
and the things already planned for LC10 and 11, but someday, I really 
like to see a way to define a data structure and make instances of it in LC.




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Re: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[harrison--- via use-livecode]

I used ChatGPT to generate some test data for me.

It took several tries before it was able to give me
a dozen lines of useable data.  

I told it to separate each item with a comma and 
each line with a carriage return.  

Then I just copied and pasted the data into a 
spreadsheet program, created a .csv file from it, 
and imported into my postgresql database that 
my LiveCode server uses.

In your case, you could just copy and paste
the data into an LC text field or table.

Enjoy your day!

Rick

> On May 18, 2023, at 9:25 AM, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I 
> assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” 
> should be. That is cool.
> 
> That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the 
> staff of a particular bank. 
> 
> If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to 
> create the string associated with each name.
> 
> How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just 
> the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would 
> end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would 
> then be done.
> 
> What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the 
> “inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.
> 
> Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
> that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.
> 
> Craig
> 
>> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is 
>>> generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether 
>>> it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info 
>>> into useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do 
>>> in Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
>> 
>> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. 
>> Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
>> 
>> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each 
>> one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of 
>> your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first 
>> name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one 
>> person per line.
>> 
>> Bard says:
>> 
>> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the 
>> sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname 
>> relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
>> Code snippet
>> 
>> Name | Sentence
>> --- | 
>> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith 
>> relatives.
>> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones 
>> relatives.
>> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown 
>> relatives.
>> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams 
>> relatives.
>> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White 
>> relatives.
>> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green 
>> relatives.
>> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black 
>> relatives.
>> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown 
>> relatives.
>> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith 
>> relatives.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
>> ___
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>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
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> 
> 
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Re: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

If you watch some of the videos posted on the challenge page it becomes 
clearer. LC AI will be integrated into the script editor and will create 
handlers as expected. You can accept, reject, or revise its output. LC AI 
knows all about what's available and how to use it. Bard, on other hand, 
doesn't know LC and can only offer generic output though it does know 20 
other coding languages.


Xavvi is built on top of LC and the team has reassured us many times that 
the LC we know is not going away. There will be regular updates and you are 
free to ignore the AI if you want. But given what I've seen so far, I'm 
betting most of us will use at least some of its features to save time or 
to expedite certain tasks.


We made the challenge! I'm happy.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 18, 2023 8:28:42 AM Craig Newman via use-livecode 
 wrote:


How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire 
just the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all 
would end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” 
work would then be done.


What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the 
“inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.


Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.





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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Thanks Steven,

That sounds like a sensible approach. 

Mark

> On 17 May 2023, at 12:59 pm, Steven Crighton via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mark
> 
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our 
> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make 
> that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we 
> have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile 
> then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code 
> that won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that 
> does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we 
> are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up 
> or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a 
> description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always 
> be options to accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly 
> tweaked prompt. I hope this helps. 
> 
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[Craig Newman via use-livecode]

In Jacque’s “test” AI first had to create a list of ten “people”, garnered, I 
assume, from research into our planet’s knowledge base. It knew what a “name” 
should be. That is cool.

That list could have been a list of actual humans, derived from, say, the staff 
of a particular bank. 

If the list alone was in hand, it would take just a handful of LC code to 
create the string associated with each name.

How to integrate the AI part with the LC part? Again, one could acquire just 
the list, and then let LC generate the output string. But at least all would 
end up in a handler, fully in LC, where I assume additional “real” work would 
then be done.

What I mean is, how can one best integrate the “outside” AI work with the 
“inside” LC work? That is what I have to get my head around.

 Lurking in the background,I do not want AI to put LC out to pasture. I did 
that once with HC, and still have not gotten over it.

Craig

> On May 17, 2023, at 8:26 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:
>> Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is 
>> generic but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether 
>> it might be possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into 
>> useful prose summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in 
>> Livecode - ie generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?
> 
> Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. 
> Here's my test. (Bard thinks it's code.)
> 
> My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each 
> one into this sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of 
> your lastname relatives." Substitute "firstname" with each person's first 
> name and substitute "lastname" with their last name. Return a list, one 
> person per line.
> 
> Bard says:
> 
> Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the 
> sentence "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname 
> relatives." with each person's first and last name substituted in:
> Code snippet
> 
> Name | Sentence
> --- | 
> John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith 
> relatives.
> Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones 
> relatives.
> Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown 
> relatives.
> David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams 
> relatives.
> Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White 
> relatives.
> James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green 
> relatives.
> Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black 
> relatives.
> Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown 
> relatives.
> Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith 
> relatives.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode]

I did the same a few days ago. ;)
Heather told me to purchase a2nd 2 year (now 10  months) and she would take 
care that it would be combined  to 2 years. 



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

> Am 18.05.2023 um 11:48 schrieb Jacques Clavel via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Hi all and Steven,
> 
> I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
> to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
> But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
> Please, how to do that ?
> Jacques CLAVEL
> 
>> Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
>> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
>> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
>> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
>> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
>> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
>> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
>> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
>> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
>> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
>> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
>> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>> 
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jacques Clavel
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Jacques Clavel via use-livecode]

Hi all and Steven,

I had pledged a few days ago to "Xavi Business 1 year" (499$) and now try
to extend it to "Xavi Business 2 Years" (999$).
But there is no option where I pay 500$ only to upgrade my pledge.
Please, how to do that ?
Jacques CLAVEL

Le mer. 17 mai 2023 à 14:00, Steven Crighton via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> a écrit :

> Hi Mark
>
> I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our
> testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to
> make that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time
> and we have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t
> compile then Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually
> accepting code that won’t run. However there may be instances where it
> supplies code that does compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the
> first instance we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can
> provide a thumbs up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as
> well as give a description on what was good or bad about it. Additionally
> there will always be options to accept or decline the result and try again
> with a slightly tweaked prompt. I hope this helps.
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


-- 
Jacques Clavel
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Re: Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

On 5/17/23 5:38 PM, Terry Judd via use-livecode wrote:

Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic 
but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be 
possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose 
summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie 
generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?


Well, I'd expect so since Bard can do it, if I understand what you mean. Here's my test. (Bard 
thinks it's code.)


My prompt: Make a list of 10 people with first and last names. Combine each one into this 
sentence: "Hello firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." 
Substitute "firstname" with each person's first name and substitute "lastname" with their last 
name. Return a list, one person per line.


Bard says:

Here is a list of 10 people with first and last names, along with the sentence "Hello 
firstname, I'm exploring the family tree of your lastname relatives." with each person's first 
and last name substituted in:

Code snippet

Name | Sentence
--- | 
John Smith | Hello John, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith relatives.
Mary Jones | Hello Mary, I'm exploring the family tree of your Jones relatives.
Michael Brown | Hello Michael, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown 
relatives.
David Williams | Hello David, I'm exploring the family tree of your Williams 
relatives.
Susan White | Hello Susan, I'm exploring the family tree of your White 
relatives.
James Green | Hello James, I'm exploring the family tree of your Green 
relatives.
Sarah Black | Hello Sarah, I'm exploring the family tree of your Black 
relatives.
Peter Brown | Hello Peter, I'm exploring the family tree of your Brown 
relatives.
Jessica Smith | Hello Jessica, I'm exploring the family tree of your Smith 
relatives.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Can Xavvi generate sensible text output as well as code?

[Terry Judd via use-livecode]

Let’s say I have a whole lot of input statements/info, some of which is generic 
but some of which varies according by user. Any thoughts on whether it might be 
possible to leverage Xavvi to process and combine that info into useful prose 
summaries for each user in a way that I can’t already do in Livecode - ie 
generative AI text rather than merging into template text)?

Terry

Sent from my iPad
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Re: Android Push Messaging issue

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

Panos,

Thank you for the reply.  Yes, I have seen that lesson – many times.  I have 
everything in place, and I have downloaded and installed the json file.  It’s 
not that the app isn’t getting the push message, it’s that the device isn’t 
getting the message – at all!  If the app is or is not launched, the device 
isn’t getting the message.  Even though Google says it’s been successfully sent.

FYI… I have another app that is using FB and it’s working fine.

Thank you!
-Dan


From: use-livecode  on behalf of 
panagiotis m via use-livecode 
Date: Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 1:21 PM
To: How to use LiveCode 
Cc: panagiotis m 
Subject: Re: Android Push Messaging issue
Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Good point. I want that too. Ditto with dynamic resizing. 

> On 17 May 2023, at 5:21 pm, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday with 
> lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name everything 
> and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a few seconds 
> it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of mindless 
> tinkering we do that isn't script-related.

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Re: Android Push Messaging issue

[panagiotis m via use-livecode]

Hello Dan,

Have you seen this lesson?

https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4069/l/1473964-how-do-i-use-push-notifications-with-android-in-livecode-9-6-5

What is your code that handles the notification?

Kind regards,
Panos

On Wed, 17 May 2023, 22:38 Dan Friedman via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> I am stumped!I have an app that where push messaging is working fine
> using Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase
> Cloud Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and
> included it in my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on
> a device is registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud
> Messaging test tool (and include the token from my app) it says a message
> was sent successfully but was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?
>
> FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully,
> but no push to the physical device.
>
> If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud
> Messaging services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being
> used in production).
>
> -Dan
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Android Push Messaging issue

[Dan Friedman via use-livecode]

I am stumped!I have an app that where push messaging is working fine using 
Legacy Cloud Messaging (and LC 9.6.2).  I have setup the new Firebase Cloud 
Messaging and downloaded the new “google-services.json” file and included it in 
my updated standalone (LC 10.0.0).  The app when launched on a device is 
registering a valid token.   When I use the Firebase Cloud Messaging test tool 
(and include the token from my app) it says a message was sent successfully but 
was not received on the device.   Any thoughts?

FYI… Sending from our server gives the same result:  sent successfully, but no 
push to the physical device.

If it matters, both Firebase Cloud Messaging API and the Legacy Cloud Messaging 
services are enabled (because the non-Firebase app is still being used in 
production).

-Dan
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Jim Lambert via use-livecode]

Stephen wrote:
> we are providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs 
> up or thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a 
> description on what was good or bad about it. 

And perhaps offer a way to accept code that we re-write so that it does work as 
we intended. This presumably improved code might then be used to 'educate' the 
LLM.

Jim Lambert

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Re: XAVVI and app/code copyright

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

paul provided,


>Just as livecode script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each 
>line 
>by hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished 
>application you
> make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.

This is far less than clear user current US law . . .

It’s not my area of law, but I’ve been following case reports, and both the 
current status 
and what is likely to change are clear as mud.



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Re: XAVVI and app/code copyright

[Paul Dupuis via use-livecode]

Xavvi generates livecode script as directed by you. Just as livecode 
script you create now is copywritable, whether you write each lie by 
hand or copy some code from a freely available library, the finished 
application you make can be copyrighted by you. Same with Xavvi.


On 5/17/2023 10:11 AM, Linda Miller via use-livecode wrote:

Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? 
Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?

Linda
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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

I want the widgets and layout functions. I had to make a form yesterday 
with lots of fields and while it isn't hard, it took 20 minutes to name 
everything and align the labels and entry fields. If Xavvi can do that in a 
few seconds it would save me time and my clients money. There's a lot of 
mindless tinkering we do that isn't script-related.


I'm hoping Xavvi will also do dynamic resizing. Even with the Magic Palette 
it's difficult.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 17, 2023 4:35:52 AM Mark Smith via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into 
Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section 
 (note: the URL is not 
an error, that is where the new video is parked).


I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI 
with lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write 
(and document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of 
thought to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed 
the campaign so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be 
prepared to be blown away.


Thanks LC.

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XAVVI and app/code copyright

[Linda Miller via use-livecode]

Will code and apps be copyright protected for the developer or LiveCode Ltd? 
Are we 100% sure of this answer? Is there a statement declaring this?

Linda
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Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Steven Crighton via use-livecode]

Hi Mark

I’m really pleased to hear you enjoyed the video. What I would say is our 
testing so far has been extremely impressive, it was the inspiration to make 
that video. But you’re right, AI won’t get the script right every time and we 
have to handle that carefully. If the script that comes back won’t compile then 
Xavvi will intervene to make sure you are not actually accepting code that 
won’t run. However there may be instances where it supplies code that does 
compile but is still not what you hoped for, in the first instance we are 
providing an opt in to training feature where you can provide a thumbs up or 
thumbs down to the code you have been supplied as well as give a description on 
what was good or bad about it. Additionally there will always be options to 
accept or decline the result and try again with a slightly tweaked prompt. I 
hope this helps. 

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Re: Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

Having just watched the latest campaign video (showing the integration of AI 
into Xavvi/LC — btw, I highly recommend giving this a watch) I have a question 
for LC. It’s likely that now (and perhaps for the foreseeable future) the AI 
will make coding and documentation errors in its recommendations. Has any 
thought been given as to how we capture these errors from the community (and 
fix them) so they can be fed back into the AI as training to improve the 
product? And, if such a mechanism will exist, might it also be applied to the 
current documentation (I’m thinking mostly of the dictionary) to improve that 
as well?

Thanks
Mark


> On 17 May 2023, at 10:33 am, Mark Smith  wrote:
> 
> I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into 
> Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section 
>  (note: the URL is not 
> an error, that is where the new video is parked). 
> 
> I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with 
> lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and 
> document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought 
> to this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign 
> so far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown 
> away. 
> 
> Thanks LC. 
>  

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Latest video -- integration of AI into script editor

[Mark Smith via use-livecode]

I just watched the latest LC video showing how AI will be integrated into 
Xavvi/LC. https://livecode.com/xavvi/?updates/#tabbed-section 
 (note: the URL is not an 
error, that is where the new video is parked). 

I hadn’t seen how this was going to be done before but  it’s a great UI with 
lot of useful options. This will completely transform how we write (and 
document) our code in the future. It looks like LC has give a lot of thought to 
this and the UI is extremely well done. If you haven’t backed the campaign so 
far I’d give this short 4 minute video a watch and be prepared to be blown 
away. 

Thanks LC. 
 
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Looking for recent, complete Google OAuth2 example

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Anyone know of a good and *recent* example of using Monte's great OAuth2 
lib with Google's API?


I'm updating some stuff and have found that after the Big G changed 
their API in March my stuff needs revision. But the vastness of their 
docs have me poking around when I'm sure it's not a hard thing once I 
find the right example (sorta like the LC Dict: great when you already 
know what you're looking for ).


Side question:

tsNet is a well-crafted wrapper around the industry-standard cURL. 
Fabo.  But unless I've missed something, for all the great ways Charles 
has meticulously made scripting interfaces for cURL functionality, 
there's one thing I can't find documentation for: cURL's own syntax.


Does tsNet support cURL syntax directly, or must we convert the vast 
range of API documentation out there into LC-specific forms to use them?


I'd be done with going back and forth between LC and Postman if I could 
make a Postman-like tool right in LC.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems


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Re: Re: A spinner that keeps spinning

[Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode]

Actually, my phrasing it that the web deployment of the browser animation tool 
is ”just for show” was being a bit unfair to it (I’ll blame not being a native 
English speaker :). 
It works very well as a web application, except for the - until now - inability 
to actually let you copy and use the code it produces.

Anyway, in v1.0.5 I’ve:
- Added the possibility to copy the code when running the web application (note 
that a urlDecode() must be done on the pasted text in LiveCode before using it)
- Added the possibility to enter an RGB value into the color field (works in 
the web application too)
- Made the design responsive on web too

I’m working on getting javascript to convey a clipboard content that doesn’t 
need urlDecoding, but at least you can extract your code from browser to LC 
now. 

I still recommend downloading and using the stack, though! :)

Web app: https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
Stack: https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas
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Re: Am I using the best mail client?

[J. Landman Gay via use-livecode]

Because of how mobile email clients work, I top post when responding on my 
phone or tablet, and bottom post when I'm at the computer. But I do try to 
trim the original message regardless.


I guess you can tell where I am right now.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On May 12, 2023 6:56:07 PM doc hawk via use-livecode 
 wrote:


Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire 
messages, rather than trimming

to the parts to which you are replying.

And “top-posting”, placing your response before the message, was the mark 
of a newbie,

and treated harshly.





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Re: Am I using the best mail client?

[doc hawk via use-livecode]

bob belabored,

>There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant 
>body text, and not 
>every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply with quote, and 
>every reply with 
>quote of every reply with quote of every reply…

That predates this list, and for that matter the creation of NACBA, by decades.

For that matter, it predates the word “internet”, and the constant network 
connection.

Ancient etiquette is that it is simply rude (at best) to include entire 
messages, rather than trimming
to the parts to which you are replying.

And “top-posting”, placing your response before the message, was the mark of a 
newbie,
and treated harshly.

Which worked, until the “Eternal September” of 1993, when rather than once a 
year with 
new students, AOL started dumping a continual supply of newbies, faster than 
they could be assimilated.

[in fairness, the infrastructure in the 80s couldn’t handle the load of all 
that extra text—the backbone
got upgraded *to* 56k (bits/second) in the 80s!]


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Re: [semi OT] mySQL question

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Just as an aside, I do not bother with joins, if I can help it. If I need data 
from multiple tables I query each table for just the data I need, and save it 
in discreet arrays, 1 per table. Of course, my needs are pretty simple. I 
typically have one parent table (the example suggested calls them Strong 
Entities) and and I only query data from the "child" tables (Weak Entities) as 
needed. 

My use case for example is: 

Customer
[CustomerFiles]
Sites
Devices
Accessories
{DeviceFiles]
Service
[ServiceDevices]
Subnets
[SiteContacts]
[SiteFiles]
Contacts
Files

etc. (entities in brackets like SiteContacts are just contacts with the sites 
they are linked to in a itemized string. Contacts are not dependent on sites 
but ARE dependent on Customers.)

I only query for one customer at a time, then all the sites for that customer, 
then all the devices for the selected site, then all the accessories for the 
selected device. As the user selects each Strong Entity, I query for the Weak 
Entities as necessary. 

I like doing it this way because having discrete arrays for each entity type 
makes coding for me much easier, and viewing the data for each table easier. 
The code necessary for querying for the Weak Entities I need is done in LC 
Script. It's much easier to grok than a complex SQL statement. 

I understand that there are definitely use cases where joins should be 
employed, such as finding all the sites who no longer have a customer 
(something I have since coded to prevent, but not before end users managed to 
orphan some sites.) 

I think too often people who really understand and are adept at SQL tend to 
program in SQL instead of the language of the front end. To me this makes the 
solution much less manageable. Also, I am not that adept at SQL (and hope I 
never need to be.) :-)

Bob S



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Re: Am I using the best mail client?

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I thread my mail in Apple Mail, and I also have a rule which moves incoming 
mail from the list into its own folder. The trouble with that is that some mail 
clients quote at the top of the body, and others quote below. That makes 
reading a long string of emails and quoted replies nearly impossible to figure 
out. 

There was some talk years ago about the practice of only quoting the relevant 
body text, and not every single reply with quote, and reply with quote of reply 
with quote, and every reply with quote of every reply with quote of every 
reply... you get the picture. After reading through 20 replies of the same 
quotes over and over and over all these years, well it's a miracle I have not 
been "committed" yet. But I do not think very many really got the memo. Still, 
that simple change in the way people reply to emails would relieve I think most 
of the pain people feel in using a list. 

Bob S


> On May 11, 2023, at 09:30, Craig Newman via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Since I got real help here, and not on the forum(hmph), I am wondering if the 
> eMail client I am using is one reason I do not prefer this venue.
> 
> I am using the native Mac “Mail’ client. Are there much better ones?
> 
> Craig
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Re: A spinner that keeps spinning

[Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode]

Peter,

Well no, the web deployment is just for show, really. It’s the LC stack that is 
the actual tool, that you should download from GitHub to use. From the stack 
you can copy the widget or the code as you prefer.

I don’t think it’s currently possible to get the content of a field in web 
deployment into the general clipboard of your browser/computer. But if anyone 
knows a method, please let me know and I’ll implement it (javascript?). I hope 
that when LC 10 is released as stable, it will be a default function.

Also, in the web deployment you can’t import an svg/png/jpg or use the generic 
color swatch, which you can when running the stack in LC. So do get the stack 
in order to let loose your inner animation designer… :)

/Andreas
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mySQL question party

[R.H. via use-livecode]

Look up Google for the party entity relationships diagram or schema.

A "party" is either a "person" or a "organisation" (company, org) The party
is an entity ( table) that has an id. The org or person tables have a
foreign key to the party id. It is a mutual exclusive relationship. A party
must never be both.

Through the party id you have access to org and person.

The party interacts through a role and relationship table. So party "Smith"
with the role "employee" is employed by employer party "My company Ltd."
with the role "employer".

If you need the "role" entity is something you must decide. But the
relationship table is essential. Any relationship can be created with this
many-to-many table.

These are starting steps... )

Roland
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Re: A spinner that keeps spinning

[Peter Bogdanoff via use-livecode]

Andreas, thanks again!

Am I supposed to be able to copy the CSS or the widget to the clipboard and 
paste directly into desktop LC? I tried using Safari and Chrome, but nothing 
ended up in the clipboard.

Peter Bogdanoff

> On May 12, 2023, at 11:31 AM, Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been 
> released:
> 
> Version 1.0.4
> - More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen 
> animations is now included
> - Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
> - The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the 
> browser, called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is 
> conveniently exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.
> 
> Known issues: 
> - Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using 
> visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, 
> at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).
> 
> Web deployed example:
> https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
> (If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open 
> in a private browser window.)
> 
> Source stack:
> https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation
> 
> /Andreas
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Re: A spinner that keeps spinning

[Andreas Bergendal via use-livecode]

Just a note that an improved version of WIS_BrowserAnimation has been released:

Version 1.0.4
- More efficient CSS code handling - only CSS code needed for the chosen 
animations is now included
- Added the possibility to animate text, with various fonts and styles
- The html/css code is now automatically put into a custom prop of the browser, 
called cHTML. So if you copy the browser widget, the code is conveniently 
exposed in the Property Inspector, Custom props tab.

Known issues: 
- Going (back) to a card with animated browser widgets on it, while using 
visual effects, seems to negatively impact the loading of the widget content, 
at least in the web deployment (i.e. it capriciously fails to load).

Web deployed example:
https://wheninspace.com/browseranimation/
(If the new version does not appear, make sure to clear browser cache or open 
in a private browser window.)

Source stack:
https://github.com/wheninspace/WIS_BrowserAnimation

/Andreas
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Re: [semi OT] mySQL question

[jbv via use-livecode]

Hello Ken,

Thank you so much for your answer.

Your solution confirms what I had more or less in mind.
I will give it a try asap.

Best,
jbv



Le 2023-05-11 15:33, Ken Ray a écrit :

I would recommend a table for People, a table for Companies, and a
table for Employment that acts as a linking table between the first
two. Something like (at its simplest):

people

id  INT(11)
first_name VARCHAR(255)
last_name VARCHAR(255)

companies
===
id INT(11)
name VARCHAR(255)

employment

id INT(11)
person_id INT(11)
company_id INT(11)
job_descrip VARCHAR(255)

To get a list of everyone that worked at a particular company, you'd
do:

 SELECT * FROM people
 INNER JOIN employment ON (people.id [1] = employment.person_id)
 INNER JOIN companies ON (employment.company_id = companies.id [2])
 WHERE companies.name="XYZ, Inc."

To get a list of all companies where a person has worked, you'd do:

 SELECT * FROM companies
 INNER JOIN employment ON (companies.id [2] = employment.company_id)
 INNER JOIN people ON (employment.person_id = people.id [1])
 WHERE people.first_name="John" AND people.last_name="Smith"

Make sure to index the 'id' and '_id' columns, and you can use the
employment.job_descrip to hold info on the particular job an
individual had at a specific company.

This is all off the top of my head, so it may need a little massaging,
but you get the idea.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: k...@sonsothunder.com
Website: https://www.sonsothunder.com


On May 11, 2023, at 9:55 AM, jbv via use-livecode
 wrote:

Hi list,

This is a question for mySQL experts, which I am not.

I have a table of individuals.
I have another table of companies.

Many individuals have worked in more than 1 company with
different jobs descriptions.

I need to build my DB so that, with single requests, I
can get a list of either :
- all individuals who worked in a specific company with
the job description of each one
- all companies in which a specific individual has worked,
along with the job description he had in each company.

The main problem is that the tables might become huge with
the time (several Gb), so searching the tables might take
forever if not carefully built.

I guess I will need to use a third table for the job descriptions
and a combination of fulltext indexes and foreign keys
might do the trick, but my limited skills don't allow me
to find the best solution...

Any help will be much appreciated.
Thank you in advance.

jbv

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Links:
--
[1] http://people.id
[2] http://companies.id


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