LiveCode Server Shared Hosting Environment

2022-03-24 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
Is there any way without root access to solve the problem of missing
libraries preventing LiveCode server from running in a shared server
environment? I'm getting this error when running the 9.6.6 64 bit server
from the command line.

./livecode-server-pro: /lib64/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.17' not found
(required by ./livecode-server-pro)
./livecode-server-pro: /lib64/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.16' not found
(required by ./livecode-server-pro)
./livecode-server-pro: /lib64/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.14' not found
(required by ./livecode-server-pro)

Thanks in advance!

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net



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Re: Livecode Server on Synology NAS with Intel cpu

2021-12-22 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode




> Am 22.12.2021 um 21:51 schrieb Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Sorry - my Synology server has an arm processor, and there has never been an 
> arm build of the server. Plus now it appears that the server build requires a 
> separate license.
> 
> I take it you've already been through the docs at
> https://livecode.com/resources/guides/server/

Yes, thanks Mark, i've checked the docs already

Unfortunately the folder structure/ location of the configuration files for 
Apache on the Synology are different to the description in the docs.

Anyway, it took me now the half day to get it working. 
So now LC server is working in the browser and on the command line and LC 
standalones can be run also from command line in ui mode.
That's awesome.
I will create a Livecode lesson for this, so others can get it working much 
quicker.

Matthias


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Re: Livecode Server on Synology NAS with Intel cpu

2021-12-22 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode

On 12/21/21 2:54 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

Hi,

is there someone on the list who is using Livecode Server on a Synology NAS 
with Intel cpu? If so, did you manage to get it working also with the webserver 
or only from command line?

Today i installed Livecode Server on my Synology NAS with Intel cpu.
I am able to run Livecode scripts from the command line. But i do not get it to 
work, that i can call LC script from my browser. I tried the .htaccess method 
to get Livecode Server running with Apache without success. I tried also to 
modify the httdp-conf file, but also without success. But that is due to a lack 
of knowledge.

I would be really grateful if someone could help me getting Livecode Server to 
work with Apache and not only from command line.


Sorry - my Synology server has an arm processor, and there has never 
been an arm build of the server. Plus now it appears that the server 
build requires a separate license.


I take it you've already been through the docs at
https://livecode.com/resources/guides/server/

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Some questions about Livecode standalones / Livecode Server on Synology NAS with Intel cpu

2021-12-21 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Hi,

is there someone on the list who is using Livecode Server on a Synology NAS 
with Intel cpu? If so, did you manage to get it working also with the webserver 
or only from command line?

Today i installed Livecode Server on my Synology NAS with Intel cpu.
I am able to run Livecode scripts from the command line. But i do not get it to 
work, that i can call LC script from my browser. I tried the .htaccess method 
to get Livecode Server running with Apache without success. I tried also to 
modify the httdp-conf file, but also without success. But that is due to a lack 
of knowledge.

I would be really grateful if someone could help me getting Livecode Server to 
work with Apache and not only from command line.


Or did someone already create a standalone with LC that could be run on the 
Synology desktop  and not only on the command line?

I am able to run 64but Unix LC standalones from the Commandline with the -ui 
switch. It was even possible to use the Synology scheduler to execute those 
standalones.
Now i am wondering how complicate it would be to package LC standalones to get 
them installed so they can be run with a gui. 

Anyone out there who works with LC standalones / LC server on Synology with 
Intel cpu?

Regards,
Matthias
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Re: Writing file to server with Livecode Server

2021-07-09 Thread Tim Selander via use-livecode

Of course, right after posting, new ideas come to mind.

Using "put (variable) into URL (server file)" failed, but using 
the old


Open file (server file)
write (variable) to file (server file)
close file  (server file)

still works fine.

Sorry for the disturbance!

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan


On 2021.07.09 15:31, Tim Selander via use-livecode wrote:

Hi,

Several years back, I had a POST web form for our company where I
saved responses to a .csv file on the same server and same folder
as the .lc file. (All hosted on on-rev.com)

That page is long gone, but I now need to do the same thing. But
when I try to write the data to the csv file, I get a 405 Error.

I suppose new security rules are behind this, but it's also very
like I am simply making a coding mistake. Is it possible for an
.lc script to write a text file to the same folder it resides in?

Any help appreciated!

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan

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Writing file to server with Livecode Server

2021-07-09 Thread Tim Selander via use-livecode

Hi,

Several years back, I had a POST web form for our company where I 
saved responses to a .csv file on the same server and same folder 
as the .lc file. (All hosted on on-rev.com)


That page is long gone, but I now need to do the same thing. But 
when I try to write the data to the csv file, I get a 405 Error.


I suppose new security rules are behind this, but it's also very 
like I am simply making a coding mistake. Is it possible for an 
.lc script to write a text file to the same folder it resides in?


Any help appreciated!

Tim Selander
Tokyo, Japan

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-24 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
certain inalienable rights… Ahhh. I love cheese.

Bob S


On Jan 24, 2021, at 9:26 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Thanks for weighing in on this issue Kee. I realize Apple grants unto itself 
certain inalienable rights that are not always (in my opinion) wise, or 
justified (ie. they are open to all sorts of corporate bias and malfeasance) 
but as you say, “them’s the rules” and if you want to play in their sandbox you 
had better abide by them. I presume there is some semblance of common sense at 
Apple, at least I hope so :)

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-24 Thread Mark Smith via use-livecode
Thanks for weighing in on this issue Kee. I realize Apple grants unto itself 
certain inalienable rights that are not always (in my opinion) wise, or 
justified (ie. they are open to all sorts of corporate bias and malfeasance) 
but as you say, “them’s the rules” and if you want to play in their sandbox you 
had better abide by them. I presume there is some semblance of common sense at 
Apple, at least I hope so :)

Mark

> On Jan 24, 2021, at 3:14 PM, kee nethery via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:20 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>> 
>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable would 
>> be a stretch, no?
> 
> There is a significantly large number of certified developers. I personally 
> have three developer accounts for three separate efforts. If I was willing, I 
> could risk burning one of those accounts. Not that I’m going to do so, just 
> saying, yes, the business amd the developer would have to be in on it. 
> 
>> For example, if I had an app that linked to course selections on University 
>> websites, are they going to suggest that these could be portals to pedophile 
>> shopping sites by entering a secret pass phrase? By the sounds of it, please 
>> correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app can link to a website for content 
>> regardless of the status of the organization that stands behind the site? 
>> H, I still have a lot to learn in this space. 
> 
> Just saying that you need to really read the published rules and follow them. 
> When there is an exception needed, you need to really sell your case to Apple 
> and they might go for it, but assume they won’t. Not all app ideas can be 
> apps.
> 
>> 
>> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these limitations?
> 
> Apple developer site makes you agree to their terms and conditions. Thats 
> what you want to reread with a very critical ete.
> 
> Kee
> 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that 
>>> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping 
>>> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web 
>>> site. (as an extreme example)
>> 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-24 Thread kee nethery via use-livecode


> On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:20 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
> 
> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable would 
> be a stretch, no?

There is a significantly large number of certified developers. I personally 
have three developer accounts for three separate efforts. If I was willing, I 
could risk burning one of those accounts. Not that I’m going to do so, just 
saying, yes, the business amd the developer would have to be in on it. 

> For example, if I had an app that linked to course selections on University 
> websites, are they going to suggest that these could be portals to pedophile 
> shopping sites by entering a secret pass phrase? By the sounds of it, please 
> correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app can link to a website for content 
> regardless of the status of the organization that stands behind the site? 
> H, I still have a lot to learn in this space. 

Just saying that you need to really read the published rules and follow them. 
When there is an exception needed, you need to really sell your case to Apple 
and they might go for it, but assume they won’t. Not all app ideas can be apps.

> 
> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these limitations?

Apple developer site makes you agree to their terms and conditions. Thats what 
you want to reread with a very critical ete.

Kee

> 
> Thanks
> Mark
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that 
>> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping app 
>> by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web site. 
>> (as an extreme example)
> 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread ELS Prothero via use-livecode
Andre,
You are probably correct. 

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my question about deployment on the 
web.

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 20, 2021, at 8:22 AM, Andre Garzia  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bill,
> 
> :-) that topic is too large for a book to be honest.
> 
> What I recommend is actually building a desktop standalone. Forget the web 
> for that app, push for an app.
> 
> Best
> A
> 
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 16:20, ELS Prothero 
>>  wrote:
>> Thank you, Andre, for you wisdom. What I take from your comments is if I 
>> want to develop dynamic interactive web based apps with Livecode, I should 
>> get up to speed on JavaScript and will need to either use Livecode to 
>> generate html5, compiled with webAssembly, or find another platform to 
>> develop the software.
>> 
>> Perhaps this topic is an idea for a short book (hint, hint).
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William Prothero
>> http://es.earthednet.org
>> 
>> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 8:03 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
>> > "you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".
>> > 
>> > WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
>> > are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
>> > since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also, it
>> > can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
>> > transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
>> > will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
>> > of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action and
>> > having something running.
>> > 
>> > WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable LLVM
>> > – which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
>> > doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
>> > with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type. It
>> > is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.
>> > 
>> > Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
>> > JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
>> > do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
>> > WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and WASM
>> > are built to complement each other.
>> > 
>> > Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
>> > Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
>> > combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).
>> > 
>> > The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both are
>> > great.
>> > 
>> > Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the 90s
>> > with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
>> > load on the Web. That is not how this works.
>> > 
>> > If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of MDN
>> > WebDocs:
>> > https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> So,
>> >> 
>> >> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
>> >> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
>> >> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do 
>> >> is
>> >> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
>> >> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start 
>> >> which
>> >> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
>> >> case.
>> >> 
>> >> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
>> >> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
>> >> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
>> >> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
>> >> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not 
>> >> really
>> >> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages 
>> >> and
>> >> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
>> >> webstore and sells stuff.
>> >> 
>> >> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
>> >> 
>> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
>> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >> 
>> >>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>> >>> 
>> >>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
>> >>> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to 
>> >>> course
>> >>> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
>> >>> could be portals to pedophile shopping 

Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Bill,

:-) that topic is too large for a book to be honest.

What I recommend is actually building a desktop standalone. Forget the web
for that app, push for an app.

Best
A

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 16:20, ELS Prothero <
proth...@earthlearningsolutions.org> wrote:

> Thank you, Andre, for you wisdom. What I take from your comments is if I
> want to develop dynamic interactive web based apps with Livecode, I should
> get up to speed on JavaScript and will need to either use Livecode to
> generate html5, compiled with webAssembly, or find another platform to
> develop the software.
>
> Perhaps this topic is an idea for a short book (hint, hint).
>
> Best,
> Bill
>
> William Prothero
> http://es.earthednet.org
>
> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 8:03 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
> > "you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".
> >
> > WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
> > are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
> > since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also,
> it
> > can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
> > transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
> > will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
> > of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action
> and
> > having something running.
> >
> > WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable
> LLVM
> > – which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
> > doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
> > with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type.
> It
> > is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.
> >
> > Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
> > JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
> > do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
> > WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and
> WASM
> > are built to complement each other.
> >
> > Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
> > Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
> > combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).
> >
> > The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both
> are
> > great.
> >
> > Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the
> 90s
> > with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
> > load on the Web. That is not how this works.
> >
> > If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of
> MDN
> > WebDocs:
> >
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> So,
> >>
> >> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static
> analysis
> >> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
> >> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you
> do is
> >> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then
> security
> >> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start
> which
> >> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
> >> case.
> >>
> >> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
> >> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
> >> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give
> Apple a
> >> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with
> this
> >> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not
> really
> >> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages
> and
> >> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
> >> webstore and sells stuff.
> >>
> >> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
> >>
> >> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
> >>>
> >>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
> >>> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to
> course
> >>> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
> >>> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
> >>> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no
> iStore app
> >>> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
> >>> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
> >>> learn in this space.
> >>>
> >>> Are 

Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread ELS Prothero via use-livecode
Thank you, Andre, for you wisdom. What I take from your comments is if I want 
to develop dynamic interactive web based apps with Livecode, I should get up to 
speed on JavaScript and will need to either use Livecode to generate html5, 
compiled with webAssembly, or find another platform to develop the software.

Perhaps this topic is an idea for a short book (hint, hint).

Best,
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Jan 20, 2021, at 8:03 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
> "you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".
> 
> WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
> are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
> since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also, it
> can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
> transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
> will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
> of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action and
> having something running.
> 
> WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable LLVM
> – which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
> doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
> with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type. It
> is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.
> 
> Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
> JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
> do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
> WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and WASM
> are built to complement each other.
> 
> Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
> Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
> combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).
> 
> The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both are
> great.
> 
> Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the 90s
> with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
> load on the Web. That is not how this works.
> 
> If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of MDN
> WebDocs:
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia  wrote:
>> 
>> So,
>> 
>> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
>> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
>> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
>> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
>> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
>> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
>> case.
>> 
>> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
>> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
>> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
>> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
>> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
>> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
>> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
>> webstore and sells stuff.
>> 
>> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
>> 
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>>> 
>>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
>>> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
>>> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
>>> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
>>> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
>>> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
>>> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
>>> learn in this space.
>>> 
>>> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
>>> limitations?
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Mark
>>> 
 On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
 
 An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
>>> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
>>> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
>>> site. (as an extreme example)
>>> 
>>> 

Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
WebAssembly (aka WASM) is not a silver bullet. It is not something like
"you compile to WebAssembly and then PROFIT".

WebAssembly and ASM.js (which is what the current HTML5 LC Runtime uses)
are very similar. The advantages of WASM is that it is a lot smaller –
since it is bytecode and not strings in source code – than ASM.js, also, it
can be streamed so you can start loading it in the VM before it finishes
transferring. Given the same source code in WASM and ASM.js, the WASM one
will transfer and load faster, but that is it. One of the main objectives
of WASM was to reduce latency between the beginning of the load action and
having something running.

WASM backends have been integrated in many languages – mostly notable LLVM
– which means that is somewhat doable to compile C/C++ code to WASM. That
doesn't mean that all libraries work. WASM has no graphics part. It deals
with memory and integers (floats?). It doesn't even have a string type. It
is basically a small assembly language to be targeted by compilers.

Apps made with WASM do not work with just 100% WASM. You always need JS.
JavaScript is the glue that links DOM, events, and WASM. What you usually
do is have a bunch of JS and then speed up some parts of that code with
WASM. WASM can't touch the DOM, WASM can't handle input events. JS and WASM
are built to complement each other.

Most languages targeting WebAssembly deployments have their own "JS
Standard library toolkit" so that when you compile, you end up with a
combination of WASM and JS files (maybe even HTML).

The benefit for LC would be a smaller runtime and faster loading, both are
great.

Just don't believe it is something magical like we were promised in the 90s
with Java Applets that you'd compile your Java App and it would magically
load on the Web. That is not how this works.

If you want to learn more about WebAssembly go to the learning area of MDN
WebDocs:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/WebAssembly/Concepts#what_is_webassembly



On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 15:53, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> So,
>
> Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
> tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
> connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
> display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
> analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
> is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
> case.
>
> As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
> buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
> Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
> cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
> than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
> Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
> buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
> webstore and sells stuff.
>
> I'll write another message about WebAssembly...
>
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>>
>> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
>> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
>> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
>> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
>> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
>> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
>> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
>> learn in this space.
>>
>> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
>> limitations?
>>
>> Thanks
>> Mark
>>
>> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
>> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
>> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
>> site. (as an extreme example)
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>>
>
>
> --
> https://www.andregarzia.com 
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
>


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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
So,

Displaying bundled content only (or mostly) allows Apple's static analysis
tools to take a look at your app. They can also identify outgoing
connections, so they know if you are opening remote pages. If all you do is
display local content, and there is no outgoing connections, then security
analysis of your app is easier (also, it works offline from the start which
is good). This is not an infalible system, but it works for the average
case.

As for having an app, that displays external webpages which allow you to
buy stuff might be a violation of Apple TOS. That is why you don't buy
Kindle books on the Kindle app on iOS. Amazon doesn't want to give Apple a
cut. An app that advertises itself as a browser has more leeway with this
than others. For example it is OK for Mozilla to ship "Firefox" (not really
Firefox, more like mozSafari) in iOS even though you can open web pages and
buy stuff with it. It is not OK for you to create an app that opens your
webstore and sells stuff.

I'll write another message about WebAssembly...

On Wed, 20 Jan 2021 at 12:22, Mark Smith via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
>
> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable
> would be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course
> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these
> could be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass
> phrase? By the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app
> can link to a website for content regardless of the status of the
> organization that stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to
> learn in this space.
>
> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these
> limitations?
>
> Thanks
> Mark
>
> > On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that
> pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping
> app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web
> site. (as an extreme example)
>
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>


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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Andrew at MidWest Coast Media via use-livecode

> Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.
> 
> That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable would 
> be a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course 
> selections on University websites, are they going to suggest that these could 
> be portals to pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass phrase? By 
> the sounds of it, please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app can link to 
> a website for content regardless of the status of the organization that 
> stands behind the site? H, I still have a lot to learn in this space. 
> 
> Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these limitations?

The guidelines don’t matter much because you’re at the mercy of whatever tester 
get’s your build to approve: it seems to be very subjective by reviewer. What I 
have found is that you can have some website stuff, but you need some mobile 
app specific features as well (push notifications, location services, etc.). It 
has also been my experience that “leading” with the web content isn’t as 
successful as opening with some static content. YMMV

Last week I got a brand new app approved (for TestFlight, not fully released 
yet but is the same approval process) for a University that contains a web 
viewer. This is only 1 of half a dozen cards in the app, and goes directly to a 
mobile landing page for a particular department. You are free to click around 
and visit the site, but you can’t manually enter a URL into a field and visit 
that site you are “stuck” with whatever links we provide. Since this isn’t the 
main focus, and is fairly contained, I had no worries about this being an issue 
(and it wasn’t). If you message me off-list with your AppleID, I’d be happy to 
add to TestFlight so you can see what I’m talking about.

But I have had apps with services that were “coming soon” so to start there was 
some bare bones content and a few browser widgets going to specific pages on a 
business website: this got rejected due to Apple’s 4.2 Minimum Functionality 
clause. After rushing to add a feature or two, and make sure those cards were 
the first to appear rather than the browser widget, got the barebones project 
approved. (A year later, the client still hasn’t paid to finish the project so 
it’s still sitting in the App Store at v0.4.03)

—Andrew Bell
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Mark Smith via use-livecode
Thanks Kee, but I am a bit puzzled by the restriction.

That would require complicity from the businesses, which if reputable would be 
a stretch, no? For example, if I had an app that linked to course selections on 
University websites, are they going to suggest that these could be portals to 
pedophile shopping sites by entering a secret pass phrase? By the sounds of it, 
please correct me if I am wrong, no iStore app can link to a website for 
content regardless of the status of the organization that stands behind the 
site? H, I still have a lot to learn in this space. 

Are there any links available to guidelines that describe these limitations?

Thanks
Mark

> On Jan 20, 2021, at 4:25 AM, kee nethery via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that pulls 
> from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping app by 
> entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web site. (as 
> an extreme example)

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RE: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-20 Thread Paul Richards via use-livecode
This looks to be marked against  9.7.0 DP1.  You can track it's progress on 
GitHub.  

https://github.com/livecode/livecode/pull/7330  



-Original Message-
From: use-livecode  On Behalf Of William 
Prothero via use-livecode
Sent: 20 January 2021 03:27
To: JJS via use-livecode 
Cc: William Prothero 
Subject: Re: Considering work with livecode server

Hmmm…. I see:
"Add WebAssembly build target in HTML5 deployment”, in the"team is working on 
right now” category. I guess, given all the delays and getting HTML5 up, I 
won’t hold my breath. But, I’ll certainly be watching for it. Gaads, another 
subscription to purchase. But getting real livecode dynamic features on the web 
would be a game-changer for me. 

Best,
Bill

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:50 PM, William de Smet via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> WebAssembly is on the roadmap.
> https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/
> 
> 
> 
>> Op 19 jan. 2021 om 20:43 heeft William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>  het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> Dan:
>> I just did a bit of Googling and wow! It sounds like a capability to compile 
>> to WebAssembly would put LiveCode in the big time. I wonder if there is any 
>> interest from the dev team. Sounds much more useful than HTML5.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Dan Brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> When livecode supports WebAssembly as a build target you'll be able to do 
>>> what you've asked
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 20:46 William Prothero via use-livecode, 
>>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> Thanks, all, for your comments. It would sure be nice if there was some 
>>> equivalent to shockwave, back in the days. Of course, downloadable plug-ins 
>>> like shockwave and flash apparently have too many security issues and are 
>>> not allowed anymore. 
>>> 
>>> HTML5 eventually? I assume HTML5 apps would run in a browser.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 19, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>>>>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> If only!
>>>> 
>>>> Bob S
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>>>>> >>>> <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com><mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>>>>  <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> A website from 1995
>>>> needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.
>>>> 
>>>> ___
>>>> use-livecode mailing list
>>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferences:
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>>>> <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero
>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org <https://earthlearningsolutions.org/>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> <http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode>
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

kee nethery wrote:

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Mark Smith wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andre, how are “apps to bundled content” different from “apps that
>> are portals to web content" (Jacque’s description)? Or put another
>> way, if someone wanted to design a tourist app that highlighted
>> interesting local tourist destinations near them with a link you can
>> click on to purchase tickets or book reservations etc, would that
>> violate Apple’s guidelines? Asking for a friend :)
>
> Pick me! I know this one!
>
> An app to bundled content means that they can review everything that
> is going to get displayed to a user and approve or deny based upon the
> content they review.
>
> An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app
> that pulls from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile
> shopping app by entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the
> data on the web site. (as an extreme example)

Any data can be replaced with porn or other contraband.

Any app can transform itself at a later date into something other than 
what was reviewed.


Neither can be prevented.

Both are remedied with banning.

This is not unique to LiveCode; it applies to all apps.

So don't do that, in any language.

I've seen no restrictions on specific binary formats. Stack files, 
spreadsheets, interactive books -- all variants of the same thing.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

William Prothero wrote:

> It would sure be nice if there was some equivalent to shockwave...

For all practical purposes we do:

The Shockwave plugin was an executable engine you could download and 
install once, and then play a wide range of scripted interactive media 
with it.


A LiveCode standalone is an executable engine you can download and 
install once, and then play a wide range of scripted interactive media 
with it.


The differences are that Shockwave was confined to the limitations of a 
browser window. And that it no longer exists.


LiveCode lives outside the confines of a browser window, allowing full 
desktop integration (cache control, document associations, etc.). And 
LiveCode exists. :)


--
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 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread kee nethery via use-livecode


> On Jan 19, 2021, at 7:58 AM, Mark Smith via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Andre, how are “apps to bundled content” different from “apps that are 
> portals to web content" (Jacque’s description)? Or put another way, if 
> someone wanted to design a tourist app that highlighted interesting local 
> tourist destinations near them with a link you can click on to purchase 
> tickets or book reservations etc, would that violate Apple’s guidelines? 
> Asking for a friend :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Mark

Pick me! I know this one!

An app to bundled content means that they can review everything that is going 
to get displayed to a user and approve or deny based upon the content they 
review.

An app to web content is a mystery app. Your restaurant review app that pulls 
from the web could easily be transformed into a pedophile shopping app by 
entering a secret pass phrase and then changing the data on the web site. (as 
an extreme example)

Kee Nethery
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Hmmm…. I see:
"Add WebAssembly build target in HTML5 deployment”, in the"team is working on 
right now” category. I guess, given all the delays and getting HTML5 up, I 
won’t hold my breath. But, I’ll certainly be watching for it. Gaads, another 
subscription to purchase. But getting real livecode dynamic features on the web 
would be a game-changer for me. 

Best,
Bill

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:50 PM, William de Smet via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> WebAssembly is on the roadmap.
> https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/
> 
> 
> 
>> Op 19 jan. 2021 om 20:43 heeft William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>  het volgende geschreven:
>> 
>> Dan:
>> I just did a bit of Googling and wow! It sounds like a capability to compile 
>> to WebAssembly would put LiveCode in the big time. I wonder if there is any 
>> interest from the dev team. Sounds much more useful than HTML5.
>> 
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Dan Brown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> When livecode supports WebAssembly as a build target you'll be able to do 
>>> what you've asked
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 20:46 William Prothero via use-livecode, 
>>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> Thanks, all, for your comments. It would sure be nice if there was some 
>>> equivalent to shockwave, back in the days. Of course, downloadable plug-ins 
>>> like shockwave and flash apparently have too many security issues and are 
>>> not allowed anymore. 
>>> 
>>> HTML5 eventually? I assume HTML5 apps would run in a browser.
>>> 
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Bill
>>> 
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
> wrote:
 
 If only!
 
 Bob S
 
 
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>    >> wrote:
 
 A website from 1995
 needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.
 
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 subscription preferences:
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>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero
>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread William de Smet via use-livecode
WebAssembly is on the roadmap.
https://livecode.com/resources/roadmap/



> Op 19 jan. 2021 om 20:43 heeft William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  het volgende geschreven:
> 
> Dan:
> I just did a bit of Googling and wow! It sounds like a capability to compile 
> to WebAssembly would put LiveCode in the big time. I wonder if there is any 
> interest from the dev team. Sounds much more useful than HTML5.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Dan Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> When livecode supports WebAssembly as a build target you'll be able to do 
>> what you've asked
>> 
>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 20:46 William Prothero via use-livecode, 
>> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>> Thanks, all, for your comments. It would sure be nice if there was some 
>> equivalent to shockwave, back in the days. Of course, downloadable plug-ins 
>> like shockwave and flash apparently have too many security issues and are 
>> not allowed anymore. 
>> 
>> HTML5 eventually? I assume HTML5 apps would run in a browser.
>> 
>> Thanks again,
>> Bill
>> 
 On Jan 19, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
 mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
 wrote:
>>> 
>>> If only!
>>> 
>>> Bob S
>>> 
>>> 
 On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
 >>> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A website from 1995
>>> needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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>>> 
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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>> 
> 
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> 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Dan:
I just did a bit of Googling and wow! It sounds like a capability to compile to 
WebAssembly would put LiveCode in the big time. I wonder if there is any 
interest from the dev team. Sounds much more useful than HTML5.

Best,
Bill

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Dan Brown  wrote:
> 
> When livecode supports WebAssembly as a build target you'll be able to do 
> what you've asked
> 
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 20:46 William Prothero via use-livecode, 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> Thanks, all, for your comments. It would sure be nice if there was some 
> equivalent to shockwave, back in the days. Of course, downloadable plug-ins 
> like shockwave and flash apparently have too many security issues and are not 
> allowed anymore. 
> 
> HTML5 eventually? I assume HTML5 apps would run in a browser.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Bill
> 
> > On Jan 19, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> > mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > If only!
> > 
> > Bob S
> > 
> > 
> > On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
> >  >  > >> wrote:
> > 
> > A website from 1995
> > needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.
> > 
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com 
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
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> > 
> 
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org 
> 
> 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Dan Brown via use-livecode
When livecode supports WebAssembly as a build target you'll be able to do
what you've asked

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021, 20:46 William Prothero via use-livecode, <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Thanks, all, for your comments. It would sure be nice if there was some
> equivalent to shockwave, back in the days. Of course, downloadable plug-ins
> like shockwave and flash apparently have too many security issues and are
> not allowed anymore.
>
> HTML5 eventually? I assume HTML5 apps would run in a browser.
>
> Thanks again,
> Bill
>
> > On Jan 19, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > If only!
> >
> > Bob S
> >
> >
> > On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > A website from 1995
> > needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.
> >
> > ___
> > use-livecode mailing list
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>
>
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Thanks, all, for your comments. It would sure be nice if there was some 
equivalent to shockwave, back in the days. Of course, downloadable plug-ins 
like shockwave and flash apparently have too many security issues and are not 
allowed anymore. 

HTML5 eventually? I assume HTML5 apps would run in a browser.

Thanks again,
Bill

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 8:57 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> If only!
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> A website from 1995
> needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.
> 
> ___
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
If only!

Bob S


On Jan 19, 2021, at 5:56 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

A website from 1995
needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021.

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Mark Smith via use-livecode
Hi Andre, how are “apps to bundled content” different from “apps that are 
portals to web content" (Jacque’s description)? Or put another way, if someone 
wanted to design a tourist app that highlighted interesting local tourist 
destinations near them with a link you can click on to purchase tickets or book 
reservations etc, would that violate Apple’s guidelines? Asking for a friend :)

Cheers,
Mark

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
> Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.
> 
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>> 
>>> Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
>> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>> 
>> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
>> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>> 
>> Am I wrong about this?
>> 
>> --
>>  Mark Wieder
>>  ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Andre Garzia wrote:

> But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you
> get Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all
>> the mobile apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>>
>> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
>> were essentially just web browsers to external content.

Roger that, Andre. Apple's emphasis has to do with the user experience, 
rather than the technical means by which that experience is derived.


What they want to avoid is an app that could just as easily have been a 
web site.  It's one of the few areas in which Apple (or any of the Big 
Five) support the Open Web.


Indeed, even in their most draconian moment, the 
infamous-and-ultimately-backpedaled debacle with iOS SDK v4,0 Section 
3.3.1 mess of 2010, they explicitly blessed JavaScript frameworks as a 
tech stack for deploying native iOS apps.


In this case here, I believe Bill was looking to bypass self-appointed 
gatekeepers altogether, using "web app" to refer to the Open Web, beyond 
the control of FAANG.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Bill,

Let me second what Richard said, you'd be better served by building desktop
stack apps than by building web apps. There is no silver bullet for doing
web work, there is no magical technology that makes it as easy as LC. The
Web is a design by committee with various multi-billion companies doing
power plays around it. To be effective on the web, you need to learn HTML,
CSS, and JS. You don't need to be an expert, but you need to learn up to
some intermediate level to do the kind of interactions you are talking
about. The web has quirks and some anachronisms in it but that is because
it can't afford to break compatibility with itself. A website from 1995
needs to be just as valid to the browser as one from 2021. What this means
is that there are still people programming the web as if it still is 1995,
so the quality of material you find online varies a lot. I'm happy that I
know it well but when I need some app on my day to day work, I will more
often turn to LC than building a web solution.

You can build richer experiences more easily by using LC and shipping a
loader standalone than by using LC server without knowing JS.

Kind regards
a

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 13:49, Andre Garzia  wrote:

> But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
> Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.
>
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>
>> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>>
>> > Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
>> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>>
>> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
>> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>>
>> Am I wrong about this?
>>
>> --
>>   Mark Wieder
>>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>
>> ___
>> use-livecode mailing list
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>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>
>
>
> --
> https://www.andregarzia.com 
> Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
>


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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-19 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
But apps that are browsers to bundled content are OK. That is how you get
Apache Cordova and Phonegap to work.

On Tue, 19 Jan 2021 at 02:06, Mark Wieder via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:
>
> > Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile
> apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.
>
> I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
> were essentially just web browsers to external content.
>
> Am I wrong about this?
>
> --
>   Mark Wieder
>   ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

That's right. Apps that are just portals to web content are forbidden.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On January 18, 2021 8:07:08 PM Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:



On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:

Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile 
apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.


I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that
were essentially just web browsers to external content.

Am I wrong about this?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode

On 1/18/21 2:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode wrote:


Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of all the mobile apps 
and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.


I thought mobile stores (Apple, etc) explicitly disallowed apps that 
were essentially just web browsers to external content.


Am I wrong about this?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

William Prothero wrote:

> Richard,
> I did understand that the server was pretty much like php, but I
> didn’t know how much beyond that it could go in terms of dynamic
> interaction with screen objects.

LC Server does have the ability to export graphics, but being at the far 
end of an HTTP connection it's not quite what you're looking for.


As for client-side option:

> The reason I wanted to look into it’s use in a browser is that for
> education, lower level grades use a lot of browser based materials
> because they don’t require kids to download apps and the most
> disadvantaged of kids can mostly use a browser. Also, teachers are
> pretty much max’d out and want to keep things the way students are
> accustomed. Building a single web-based app that avoids the world of
> all the mobile apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive.

Yeah, it's a funny thing I see as you do, but can't quite wrap my head 
around:


On mobile devices, it's all "No, it can't be in a browser, it MUST be a 
native app!"


But then with a larger screen it's somehow "No, it can't be a native 
app, it MUST be in a browser!"


:)

These days I tend to consider browser first, looking at native apps 
(desktop or mobile both) only when there's some solid reason not to use 
a browser.


But there are many reasons, and for most of the last several years just 
about everything I make is a slim standalone that pulls stuff down from 
web servers, so for the small cost of a one-time install the user always 
has the latest and greatest without ever having to think about it again.



> My experience is that building the app in Livecode is the easy/fun
> part and getting it on the wide variety of platforms (Apple, windows,
> Chromebooks, iPads, the Android variations, etc, etc) is the time-
> consuming/mind-numbing challenge. I have build iOS apps and hate to
> spend my time fighting the deployment issues.

If you need platform coverage that broad your options are narrow.  The 
design requirements for such a range of screen sizes require a deep 
re-think for most UI layouts, something that CSS is designed to handle 
but little else is.



> My comments are from the perspective of a guy who is retired, enjoys
> building useful education tools, and gives away my creations for free
> to pay back the National Science Foundation for all the support I got
> while working. So, I’m trying to maximize my satisfaction from this
> hobby.
>
> I came to Livecode from Director and Shockwave. I love Livecode, but
> wish it could do the same in a browser that it does so well with
> desktop and apps.

If you're not bound to market expectations you may be able to call the 
shots. Do what you want, and if people's preoccupations prevent them 
from enjoying it their loss. :)


Browsers are DEEPLY, VASTLY different from native apps.  Born for 
trading research papers with everything else we enjoy grafted on after 
the fact, browsers handle content with a built-in reflow logic that no 
authoring environment for desktop can or even should be expected to 
match, any more than we bite into an apple expecting it to taste like an 
orange.


A small subset of things can port nicely, and my preferred way of 
working is authoring with custom LC tools and generating web-ready HTML 
from those.


If the only interaction you need is hiding/showing things and maybe a 
few other things, it would be fairly straightforward to write library in 
LC and a matching library in JavaScript, so you can author away to your 
heart's content by just setting properties, and the interaction behavior 
carries over nicely from your desktop authoring to the browser viewing.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Hi Bill,

If you just want to put together good-looking quick and dirty webpages
that don’t need database interaction, you might want to use Apple’s
Keynote software.  You can put together a presentation with links
from one page to another, and just export the whole thing as HTML.
It works really great for what it is.  Try it out!

Good luck!

Rick

> On Jan 18, 2021, at 5:20 PM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richard,
> I did understand that the server was pretty much like php, but I didn’t know 
> how much beyond that it could go in terms of dynamic interaction with screen 
> objects.
> 
> The reason I wanted to look into it’s use in a browser is that for education, 
> lower level grades use a lot of browser based materials because they don’t 
> require kids to download apps and the most disadvantaged of kids can mostly 
> use a browser. Also, teachers are pretty much max’d out and want to keep 
> things the way students are accustomed. Building a single web-based app that 
> avoids the world of all the mobile apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is 
> attractive. My experience is that building the app in Livecode is the 
> easy/fun part and getting it on the wide variety of platforms (Apple, 
> windows, Chromebooks, iPads, the Android variations, etc, etc) is the 
> time-consuming/mind-numbing challenge. I have build iOS apps and hate to 
> spend my time fighting the deployment issues.
> 
> My comments are from the perspective of a guy who is retired, enjoys building 
> useful education tools, and gives away my creations for free to pay back the 
> National Science Foundation for all the support I got while working. So, I’m 
> trying to maximize my satisfaction from this hobby.
> 
> I came to Livecode from Director and Shockwave. I love Livecode, but wish it 
> could do the same in a browser that it does so well with desktop and apps.
> 
> Everybody: Be Well, Be Safe, it’s been a crazy year in the US, and in the 
> world too.
> 
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org


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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Richard,
I did understand that the server was pretty much like php, but I didn’t know 
how much beyond that it could go in terms of dynamic interaction with screen 
objects.

The reason I wanted to look into it’s use in a browser is that for education, 
lower level grades use a lot of browser based materials because they don’t 
require kids to download apps and the most disadvantaged of kids can mostly use 
a browser. Also, teachers are pretty much max’d out and want to keep things the 
way students are accustomed. Building a single web-based app that avoids the 
world of all the mobile apps and desktop idiosyncrasies is attractive. My 
experience is that building the app in Livecode is the easy/fun part and 
getting it on the wide variety of platforms (Apple, windows, Chromebooks, 
iPads, the Android variations, etc, etc) is the time-consuming/mind-numbing 
challenge. I have build iOS apps and hate to spend my time fighting the 
deployment issues.

My comments are from the perspective of a guy who is retired, enjoys building 
useful education tools, and gives away my creations for free to pay back the 
National Science Foundation for all the support I got while working. So, I’m 
trying to maximize my satisfaction from this hobby.

I came to Livecode from Director and Shockwave. I love Livecode, but wish it 
could do the same in a browser that it does so well with desktop and apps.

Everybody: Be Well, Be Safe, it’s been a crazy year in the US, and in the world 
too.

Bill

William Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org
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Re: Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Bill Prothero wrote:

> I’m considering doing some work with LiveCode server.
...
> Can I position and drag graphic images around. For example, I’m
> thinking of the capability to create an image with various parts
> that I can click to hide and position based on mouse drags or
> clicks or whatever I want.

LC Server runs on a server, specifically as a CGI under Apache.  Its 
role is similar to PHP and other server-side languages in allowing a 
developer to add custom functionality to Apache.


It has no direct role in anything client-side, whether a browser or an 
LC app.  Client software sends requests to the server, and the server 
sends them back to the client.  The two are very separate, connected 
only through HTTP.


If you're looking for that sort of client-side interaction, and IF you 
ABSOLUTELY MUST confine the experience to the browser app, your only 
viable option is the browser-native technology stack, JavaScript/HTML/CSS.


LiveCode's HTML export aims to deliver a replacement for browser-native 
options, but by its nature it's well suited only fora very small number 
of projects.


If you're looking for the benefits of lightweight delivery over HTTP, 
and have no requirement that you ABSOLUTELY MUST limit what you're doing 
to be delivered specifically inside of a browser window, the most 
powerful option we have is also the simplest:  just download a stack 
within a lean standalone.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Considering work with livecode server

2021-01-18 Thread prothero--- via use-livecode
Folks:
I’m considering doing some work with LiveCode server. It looks like revigniter 
would be a good startng place, but I have questions before I invest a lot of 
time in it.

Can I position and drag graphic images around. For example, I’m thinking of the 
capability to create an image with various parts that I can click to hide and 
position based on mouse drags or clicks or whatever I want.

It would help me a lot if I could see examples of great sites built with the 
livecode server. If I have to become an expert on Python or Java or javascript 
to do it, though, I’d pass. Basically, I’d like to see what can be done with 
livecode script, livecode server, and whatever html and css are required to do 
what I want. Beginner Python or Javascript might be ok, though.

So, if anyone could post a link to a site like this, I’d very much appreciate 
it. 

Best,
Bill


William A. Prothero
Santa Barbara, CA. 93105
http://earthlearningsolutions.org/

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Re: Livecode server configuration: tracking down and Apache redirect

2020-12-20 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

David Bovill wrote:

> The server return 400 Not Found when routing for a *.json file, while
> 200 OK when routing for a *.txt file - all other conditions seem the
> same.
...
> The .htaccess in the $DOCUMENT_ROOT folder does not mention json file
> endings.

Ah, we may have been looking at this backwards.

Rather than ask why Apache ISN'T serving JSON, we might ask why it SHOULD.

IIRC, following the general principle of least access Apache's defaults 
serve only a small number of types, and additional types must be added 
explicitly.


Just as we use directives to tell Apache to recognize the file type 
".lc", you should be able to tell it to recognize .json by adding this 
to Apache's config:


AddType application/json .json


Details here also show how to force UTF-8 for json, along with other tips:

https://htaccessbook.com/useful-htaccess-rules/


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Livecode server configuration: tracking down and Apache redirect

2020-12-20 Thread David Bovill via use-livecode
Thanks for the tips Richard:
On 18 Dec 2020, 21:05 +, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> David Bovill wrote:
>
> > I have a Livecode server running Revigniter under Apache on Ubuntu. I
> > installed it 8 years ago or so, and it is causing redirect problems
> > with files ending in .json. I am assuming that a long time ago a set
> > the configuration somewhere to handle .json files in a particular way,
> > but I can’t track this down. Any thoughts where to look?
>
> Is the redirect a 301, 302, or something else?

The server return 400 Not Found when routing for a *.json file, while 200 OK 
when routing for a *.txt file - all other conditions seem the same.

If I replace “json” with “json” or “xyz” or any arbitrary txt in the 
(Revigniter) routing everything works as expected. The .htaccess in the 
$DOCUMENT_ROOT folder does not mention json file endings.

I suspect there is another file somewhere doing the Apache based redirect?
> Is the returntype appropriate for JSON?

Yes
> Do you see the problem when access from an LC client, a browser, or both?

Both
> > I’m wondering if there is some sort of log that would allow me to know
> > how Apache is handling a faulty redirect? I’m a bit stuck tracking it
> > down.
>
> The Apache logs are at:
> /var/log/apache2/access.log
> /var/log/apache2/error.log

I can’t see information there that will help debug.
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Re: Livecode server configuration: tracking down and Apache redirect

2020-12-18 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

David Bovill wrote:

> I have a Livecode server running Revigniter under Apache on Ubuntu. I
> installed it 8 years ago or so, and it is causing redirect problems
> with files ending in .json. I am assuming that a long time ago a set
> the configuration somewhere to handle .json files in a particular way,
> but I can’t track this down. Any thoughts where to look?

Is the redirect a 301, 302, or something else?

Is the returntype appropriate for JSON?

Do you see the problem when access from an LC client, a browser, or both?


> I’m wondering if there is some sort of log that would allow me to know
> how Apache is handling a faulty redirect? I’m a bit stuck tracking it
> down.

The Apache logs are at:
/var/log/apache2/access.log
/var/log/apache2/error.log

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 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Livecode server configuration: tracking down and Apache redirect

2020-12-18 Thread David Bovill via use-livecode
I have a Livecode server running Revigniter under Apache on Ubuntu. I installed 
it 8 years ago or so, and it is causing redirect problems with files ending in 
.json. I am assuming that a long time ago a set the configuration somewhere to 
handle .json files in a particular way, but I can’t track this down. Any 
thoughts where to look?

I’ve tried the following places so far: .htaccess and 
/etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default.conf  which do their job - but no 
mention of .json files.

I’m wondering if there is some sort of log that would allow me to know how 
Apache is handling a faulty redirect? I’m a bit stuck tracking it down.

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-31 Thread doc hawk via use-livecode
heriberto harrumphed

>3) Today's macOS is descended from NeXT (which Apple acquired and 
> transitioned macOS to in 1999)

And they got a free Jobs to go with it!

Or did they buy a Jobs, and get a free OS.  I’ve never quite been clear . . 

>  6) The Mach microkernel was replaced with the Appel XNU hybrid kernel

Ooh, I missed that.

> 1) It seems we can run a Livecode headless binary on BSD using the Linux 
> compatibility layer. Is that so?


I’m pretty sure that I ran 5.5 both headless and X under FreeBSD.

Come to think of it, I believe there are multiple threads in the archives, 
probably mid 2012, from when I was asking questions about it.  In there would 
be some discussions as to how far it gets in startup before bouncing off of X 
when not using headless.
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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-31 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode

Richard, Brian thank you very much,

I read about this Livecode execution method a time ago and found it amazing.

Livecode is an amazing product!

So, these are my thoughts:

1) It seems we can run a Livecode headless binary on BSD using the Linux 
compatibility layer. Is that so?
2) How difficult could it be porting Livecode Server to ARM? I tried to 
do this last year using the source code but I got this error: Unknown 
platform.
I tried to remove from the source code the target platform check but it 
didn't work.


Best,
Hery




On 10/29/20 1:57 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Brian Milby wrote:

> On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> But Heriberto's up for an adventure, one enhancement that would lower
>> RAM use and speed things up a bit is this one:
>>
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115
>>
>> Heriberto, if that's interesting to you let me know. I have a
>> workaround in place now...
>
> What is the workaround that you ended up using?  I looked at the code
> once but it quickly went over my head.  I couldn’t see where the fonts
> were pulled in, at least not where it could be cleanly intercepted.

I appreciate the time you and Mark Wieder spent looking into that - 
thanks again.


I just ran another test this morning to verify that the setup works 
reasonably well, and after I get some client work out of the way I'll 
post some notes on it.


In the meantime, another option just occurred to me which may be 
simpler and more complete:



What happens when standalones are run with -ui, and can that flag be 
added to LC Server?


If -ui not only bypasses font init but all other graphics init (like 
the Skia subsystem, buffering, etc.) it should be a far better solution.


And since -ui is already supported for standalones, my hope is it 
would be simpler to make it available for LC Server than any new flag 
which would require a new implementation throughout.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.com http://www.FourthWorld.com

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Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

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​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

*NetDreams S.C.*
http://www.networkdreams.net <http://www.networkdreams.net>

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-31 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode
Not very sure, but months ago I read this (but he seems to talk about 
BSD user utils more than the Kernel).


https://www.quora.com/Is-macOS-considered-to-be-a-BSD-UNIX

Yes, Apple’s macOS can be considered to be a BSD UNIX.

   1) Apple’s macOS is an officially certified UNIX, that takes care of 
the UNIX part of the question.


   2) NeXT was created by using BSD OS, the Mach microkernel and then 
modifying those with new modules created by NeXT.


   3) Today's macOS is descended from NeXT (which Apple acquired and 
transitioned macOS to in 1999)


   4) Apple replaced the NeXT user interface with the world famous 
Macintosh user interface


   5) Apple, slowly over the years removed the NeXT modules and 
replaced them with pure BSD modules and some Apple custom modules


   6) The Mach microkernel was replaced with the Appel XNU hybrid kernel

   7) As of macOS Catalina 10.15, there is no longer any NeXT modules 
in macOS, macOS is now mostly BSD with a few custom Apple modules and of 
course the Macintosh user interface, which has been polished over the years


   8) So yes, macOS is BSD and at the same time it still is Apple Macintosh

   9) If you go to the command line you will see that it is almost 
completely BSD with a few Apple commands for security, file system, etc.


   10) If you are using it normally, then what you see is a pure 
Macintosh user experience.




On 10/29/20 1:32 PM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

Are we sure about this?? I thought Apple had moved completely away from BSD a 
long while back.

Bob S



On Oct 28, 2020, at 12:53 , Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Thanks Andre,

I realized that BSD kernels are not the same as MacOS kernels.
As you say: MacOS has a hybrid kernel based on XNU and some parts of BSD.


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Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

*NetDreams S.C.*
http://www.networkdreams.net 

 Address / Dirección / Adresse:​

*USA: *538 East 85th Street, #1C Manhattan NY, NY 10028 USA
*Europe / Europa: *Paseo de la Castellana 135 10ª Planta Madrid 28024 
Spain / España


*Tel - Phone - Fax:*

Phone / Tel USA : +1 917 287 5644 / +1 646 596 8787
Phone / Tel Spain :+34 627 556 500 / + 34 91 063 74 48

   Please consider the environment before printing this email / Por 
favor considera tu responsabilidad medioambiental antes de imprimir esta 
página.


Confidentiality: The information contained in this message as well as 
the attached file(s) is confidential/privileged and is only intended for 
the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If the reader of this message is 
not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for 
delivering the message to the intended recipient, or you have received 
this comunication in error, please be aware that any dissemination, 
distribution or duplication is strictly prohibited, and can be illegal, 
and please notify us immediately and return the original message to us 
at the address above. Thank you.


Confidencialidad: La información contenida en este mensaje y/o 
archivo(s) adjunto(s) es confidencial/privilegiada y está destinada a 
ser leída sólo por la(s) persona(s) a la(s) que va dirigida. Si usted 
lee este mensaje y no es el destinatario señalado, el empleado o el 
agente responsable de entregar el mensaje al destinatario, o ha recibido 
esta comunicación por error, le informamos que está totalmente 
prohibida, y puede ser ilegal, cualquier divulgación, distribución o 
reproducción de esta comunicación, y le rogamos que nos lo notifique 
inmediatamente y nos devuelva el mensaje original a la dirección arriba 
mencionada. Gracias.


Viruses: Although we have taken steps to insure that this e-mail and 
attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keeping with good 
computing practice, the recipient should ensure they are actually virus 
free.


Virus: Aunque hemos tomado las medidas para asegurarnos que este correo 
electrónico y sus ficheros adjuntos están libres de virus, le 
recomendamos que a efectos de mantener buenas prácticas de seguridad, el 
receptor debe asegurarse que este correo y sus ficheros adjuntos están 
libres de virus.



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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-31 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode

Hi Richard,


Although I love UNIX, I think this is a much better point.
Looking at the feedback comments I have realized that porting Livecode 
to BSD may not be worth it.


However, I think it is critical for our community to be able to run 
Livecode scripting on IOT devices.


IOT and Edge computing is the future (and the present).

I dare to say that Livecode is a much simpler language for IOT than 
Python (although this is a personal opinion).


If you learn Livecode you kill five birds with one stone:
Desktop, Mobile, Scripting, Web and Server development.

Have you tried developing desktop or mobile applications with Python? It 
is a tremendous pain.


We need a much wider community to be able to extend Livecode to all areas.

Can you imagine Livecode as a popular option on most the important job 
posting sites?


I think the first step would be to have a working version of Livecode 
server for Raspberry.


Livecode currently compiles for many ARM versions.

How difficult could it be to adapt Livecode Server to these versions?


On 10/28/20 11:06 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:

Heriberto Torrado wrote:

> So, here is my idea: What about to create non official versions of
> Livecode server (for scripting purposes) for other platforms not yet
> supported?
> I think it could be good for RunRev: They won't have to work
> supporting those versions and Livecode language will spread to other
> fields.
>
> What do you guys think? Do you think we'll have enough manpower into
> our community to do that?

Raspberry Pi, w/ Raspbian or other Debian-based Linux (Linux ARM).

Home servers, school labs, IoT, and so much more - all currently lost 
to us by not having a build for that engine.


The last build was an experiment done by a team member no longer with 
the company, for LC v7.1.


If you could update the Server edition to v9.6 we could at least have 
a modern version to work with for faceless applications, and any 
remaining work for the GUI side would likely be relatively small 
(certainly smaller than one person trying to knock it all off by 
themselves).





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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-29 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Brian Milby wrote:

> On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> But Heriberto's up for an adventure, one enhancement that would lower
>> RAM use and speed things up a bit is this one:
>>
>> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115
>>
>> Heriberto, if that's interesting to you let me know. I have a
>> workaround in place now...
>
> What is the workaround that you ended up using?  I looked at the code
> once but it quickly went over my head.  I couldn’t see where the fonts
> were pulled in, at least not where it could be cleanly intercepted.

I appreciate the time you and Mark Wieder spent looking into that - 
thanks again.


I just ran another test this morning to verify that the setup works 
reasonably well, and after I get some client work out of the way I'll 
post some notes on it.


In the meantime, another option just occurred to me which may be simpler 
and more complete:



What happens when standalones are run with -ui, and can that flag be 
added to LC Server?


If -ui not only bypasses font init but all other graphics init (like the 
Skia subsystem, buffering, etc.) it should be a far better solution.


And since -ui is already supported for standalones, my hope is it would 
be simpler to make it available for LC Server than any new flag which 
would require a new implementation throughout.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-29 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Are we sure about this?? I thought Apple had moved completely away from BSD a 
long while back. 

Bob S


> On Oct 28, 2020, at 12:53 , Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Andre,
> 
> I realized that BSD kernels are not the same as MacOS kernels.
> As you say: MacOS has a hybrid kernel based on XNU and some parts of BSD.


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RE: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-29 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
The session lockup issue also needs to be addressed. This has been raised in 
the past but I found the recipe. This bug occurs when requests come too close 
together. My spidy sense says that this is a file locking race condition. 
https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=22560


Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Brian Milby via use-livecode
Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 9:26 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Brian Milby; Richard Gaskin
Subject: Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

What is the workaround that you ended up using?  I looked at the code once but 
it quickly went over my head.  I couldn’t see where the fonts were pulled in, 
at least not where it could be cleanly intercepted.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:57 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There may be many useful requests in the bug DB worth considering to improve 
> the performance, robustness, and feature set of LC Server.
> 
> But Heriberto's up for an adventure, one enhancement that would lower RAM use 
> and speed things up a bit is this one:
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115
> 
> Heriberto, if that's interesting to you let me know. I have a workaround in 
> place now, and I'll bet there's a way to move that inside the engine for a 
> solution that's much simpler than when we discussed it here on this list 
> earlier this year.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web 
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-29 Thread Brian Milby via use-livecode
What is the workaround that you ended up using?  I looked at the code once but 
it quickly went over my head.  I couldn’t see where the fonts were pulled in, 
at least not where it could be cleanly intercepted.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 28, 2020, at 11:57 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There may be many useful requests in the bug DB worth considering to improve 
> the performance, robustness, and feature set of LC Server.
> 
> But Heriberto's up for an adventure, one enhancement that would lower RAM use 
> and speed things up a bit is this one:
> 
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115
> 
> Heriberto, if that's interesting to you let me know. I have a workaround in 
> place now, and I'll bet there's a way to move that inside the engine for a 
> solution that's much simpler than when we discussed it here on this list 
> earlier this year.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-29 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Friends,

I'm enjoying this thread a lot. I'll not be the person to tell someone not
to port LC to some new ISA or OS, I think it would be great if LC would run
in BSD. Personally, I don't have the time or even the skillset to help
this, but I'd love to benefit from it. Incidentally this is the exact
mindset that prevents good things from happening because many people want
to benefit from something without actually working towards it but I really
can't work on this. The work that LC HQ has done throughout the years
modernizing the codebase and keeping it all working in multiple systems is
amazing and a feat worth of awards but, don't let the convenience of having
that funky download page with all the versions fool you, building LC is not
that easy especially if you're targeting a new ISA/OS combination.

The ideal way in my humble but educated opinion is for LC GPL to be added
to the ports collection of FreeBSD, this is described in the FreeBSD
porters handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/index.html

This is probably not a weekend project and not for the faint of heart. It
will require a lot of work to do this properly, but it can be done.

Before dismissing someone volunteering their own time to work on a FreeBSD
port based on that system's market share remember that Macs used to be a
very small percentage of the market. Under the same rules, LC shouldn't
have focused at all on having it working on Macs, clearly Windows was 90%
of the global marketshare. FreeBSD has a ton of stuff going for it and the
wave of people migrating from Linux towards a BSD experience has been
growing steadily since the encroaching of systemd and other "decisions"
have moved Linux away from a more traditional UNIX experience. Lots of the
shiny things people are doing with Linux have been a part of day to day
life of FreeBSD users much earlier and is usually provided in a more
cohesive experience, such as Jails vs Docker.

I advise people who haven't seen modern FreeBSD workflows to check their
foundation youtube channel, there is a lot of nice in-depth videos there
that might help people see it through new eyes. That being said, I don't
think that LC HQ should dedicate their time to do it, they need to focus on
what produces money regardless of how I or other users here feel about
different operating systems.




On Thu, 29 Oct 2020 at 03:57, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Pi Digital wrote:
>
>  > Here’s my take (for what it’s worth). Although Unix is used in 71.6%
>  > (source: w3techs.com) of all known websites as of today and Linux only
>  > 29.0%, at least we have ‘a’ distro that works on some server.
>
> That struck me as odd, so I took a moment to see how they derived that
> impressive Unix number (thanks for including the source).
>
> It turns out they're lumping Unix and Linux together under "Unix" - when
> you click "Unix" you get this breakdown:
>
> Subcategories of Unix
>
> This diagram shows the percentages of websites using various
> subcategories of Unix.
>
> How to read the diagram:
> Linux is used by 40.5% of all the websites who use Unix
>
> Websites who use Unix
> Linux   40.5%
> BSD 0.5%
> Darwin less than 0.1%
> HP-UX  less than 0.1%
> Solarisless than 0.1%
> Minix  less than 0.1%
> Unknown59.0%
>
> I'd wager most of the 59% using "Unknown" are also Linux.
>
> That would line up well enough with what we see at the Wikipedia page
> for server OS market share:
>
>Linux   FreeBSDUnknown  Windows
> W3Cook July 201596.4% 1.7%   0%  1.9%
> W3TechsFeb  201535.9%   0.95%   30.9%   32.3%
> Security Space  Feb 2014   <79.3% N/A   >20.7%
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Public_servers_on_the_Internet
>
> While Windows has a strong showing in the enterprise for internal
> servers, public-facing servers are by far a Linux story.
>
> This is not only true for most shared and VPS hosting, but public clouds
> as well, with Google, Amazon, and Apple all using Linux to drive their
> infrastructure, and even though Azure is a Win/Linux mix there's a
> surprising amount of Linux going on there (with Ubuntu being the leading
> choice inside containers).
>
> I bring this up not just because I'm a Linux fanboy (though I am and
> make no apologies; I was even worse when I used to be a Mac fanboy ),
> but just as a long-winded way to help support your main thesis:
>
> Aside from new architectures like Linux ARM (Raspberry Pi), the most
> commonly-used platforms where LiveCode Serer would be used are well
> supported.
>
> So, as you wrote:
>
>  > Seriously, if anyone was considering doing this, please..., please,
>  > reconsider and put your efforts and talent into fixing what we already
>  > have. It would be far more 

Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-28 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Pi Digital wrote:

> Here’s my take (for what it’s worth). Although Unix is used in 71.6%
> (source: w3techs.com) of all known websites as of today and Linux only
> 29.0%, at least we have ‘a’ distro that works on some server.

That struck me as odd, so I took a moment to see how they derived that 
impressive Unix number (thanks for including the source).


It turns out they're lumping Unix and Linux together under "Unix" - when 
you click "Unix" you get this breakdown:


   Subcategories of Unix

   This diagram shows the percentages of websites using various
   subcategories of Unix.

   How to read the diagram:
   Linux is used by 40.5% of all the websites who use Unix

   Websites who use Unix
   Linux   40.5%
   BSD  0.5%
   Darwin less than 0.1%
   HP-UX  less than 0.1%
   Solarisless than 0.1%
   Minix  less than 0.1%
   Unknown59.0%

I'd wager most of the 59% using "Unknown" are also Linux.

That would line up well enough with what we see at the Wikipedia page 
for server OS market share:


  Linux   FreeBSDUnknown  Windows
   W3Cook July 201596.4% 1.7%   0%  1.9%
   W3TechsFeb  201535.9%   0.95%   30.9%   32.3%
   Security Space  Feb 2014   <79.3% N/A   >20.7%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Public_servers_on_the_Internet

While Windows has a strong showing in the enterprise for internal 
servers, public-facing servers are by far a Linux story.


This is not only true for most shared and VPS hosting, but public clouds 
as well, with Google, Amazon, and Apple all using Linux to drive their 
infrastructure, and even though Azure is a Win/Linux mix there's a 
surprising amount of Linux going on there (with Ubuntu being the leading 
choice inside containers).


I bring this up not just because I'm a Linux fanboy (though I am and 
make no apologies; I was even worse when I used to be a Mac fanboy ), 
but just as a long-winded way to help support your main thesis:


Aside from new architectures like Linux ARM (Raspberry Pi), the most 
commonly-used platforms where LiveCode Serer would be used are well 
supported.


So, as you wrote:

> Seriously, if anyone was considering doing this, please..., please,
> reconsider and put your efforts and talent into fixing what we already
> have. It would be far more beneficial to a much greater community
> population.

There may be many useful requests in the bug DB worth considering to 
improve the performance, robustness, and feature set of LC Server.


But Heriberto's up for an adventure, one enhancement that would lower 
RAM use and speed things up a bit is this one:


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115

Heriberto, if that's interesting to you let me know. I have a workaround 
in place now, and I'll bet there's a way to move that inside the engine 
for a solution that's much simpler than when we discussed it here on 
this list earlier this year.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-28 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Heriberto Torrado wrote:

> So, here is my idea: What about to create non official versions of
> Livecode server (for scripting purposes) for other platforms not yet
> supported?
> I think it could be good for RunRev: They won't have to work
> supporting those versions and Livecode language will spread to other
> fields.
>
> What do you guys think? Do you think we'll have enough manpower into
> our community to do that?

Raspberry Pi, w/ Raspbian or other Debian-based Linux (Linux ARM).

Home servers, school labs, IoT, and so much more - all currently lost to 
us by not having a build for that engine.


The last build was an experiment done by a team member no longer with 
the company, for LC v7.1.


If you could update the Server edition to v9.6 we could at least have a 
modern version to work with for faceless applications, and any remaining 
work for the GUI side would likely be relatively small (certainly 
smaller than one person trying to knock it all off by themselves).


--
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 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-28 Thread Pi Digital via use-livecode
It’s a great idea. How do you propose it be handled? Assuming this is a build 
based on the current system it will likely have to be compiled in Linux as the 
obvious choice. Do we have anyone with the appropriate skills in coding C to 
look into the various server platforms to be compiled for? Someone with enough 
time and resources, knowledge and energy? 

If so, why aren’t those people helpful enough to fix what we already have? 

[Get’s off soap box (for the time being)]  ;) 

Here’s my take (for what it’s worth). Although Unix is used in 71.6% (source: 
w3techs.com) of all known websites as of today and Linux only 29.0%, at least 
we have ‘a’ distro that works on some server. Like you, I’m currently using a 
CentOS web server with LC happily. But the clincher has to be that currently 
FreeBSD has no support for Dell,HP or IBM servers. The only advantages to 
having FreeBSD is a teeny bit better security, tiny performance improvement and 
have it in a fully fledged OS instead of just a kernel. Is it worth anyone’s 
time and effort building for those ‘advantages’?

Seriously, if anyone was considering doing this, please..., please, reconsider 
and put your efforts and talent into fixing what we already have. It would be 
far more beneficial to a much greater community population. 

All the very best. 

Sean Cole
Pi Digital


> On 28 Oct 2020, at 19:53, Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> So, here is my idea: What about to create non official versions of Livecode 
> server (for scripting purposes) for other platforms not yet supported?
> I think it could be good for RunRev: They won't have to work supporting those 
> versions and Livecode language will spread to other fields.
> 
> What do you guys think? Do you think we'll have enough manpower into our 
> community to do that?
> 
> Best,
> Hery
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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-28 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode

Thanks Andre,

I realized that BSD kernels are not the same as MacOS kernels.
As you say: MacOS has a hybrid kernel based on XNU and some parts of BSD.

I'm only interested in running the Livecode server version and not the IDE.
So, I think that compiling could be the best solution.

I have been coding with Livecode for several years almost every week.
So my mind is very "Livecodized".
In fact, when I have to change to PHP, JS, Python or Golang, I feel very 
unproductive. Everything takes much more time than doing it with Livecode.


I would like not only to run Livecode server on BSD, but also on 
different hardware platforms.
I think on the IOT field Livecode script could have a good opportunity 
to be a killer language.


In the past, I tried to compile Livecode server for this devices, but I 
got several errors: 
https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product=69_id=279


So, here is my idea: What about to create non official versions of 
Livecode server (for scripting purposes) for other platforms not yet 
supported?
I think it could be good for RunRev: They won't have to work supporting 
those versions and Livecode language will spread to other fields.


What do you guys think? Do you think we'll have enough manpower into our 
community to do that?


Best,
Hery



On 10/28/20 11:24 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:31, Paul McClernan via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".

I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile

it.

Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?


As others mentioned, this is dated information. However, last I checked
macOS (or rather the "Darwin" layer of macOS) is POSIX compliant and built
from BSD UNIX 4.4 & bits of FreeBSD. So, I would not be all that surprised
if a LiveCode for macOS GUI-less/CLI executable could run on some other
BSD.



That is not really how this works.

macOS is built on top of old NEXTSTEP and it is POSIX compliant but
that doesn't mean that LC from mac can work on BSD. MacOS uses the XNU
kernel, its executable file format and shared library file format are
unique and not related at all to anything that a BSD can run.

FreeBSD can run Linux binaries though as can be seen in the FreeBSD
Handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html

This is done through emulation and I can't vouch for the performance or
correctness of it but, in theory you can install the necessary components
and libraries and then be able to run the Linux version of LC in FreeBSD.

Another option is trying to build from source. To be effective, this would
require knowledge of the FreeBSD ports and packages system besides knowing
enough of LC source and C++ to patch anything needed. I bet they'd love
such a contribution if you have the chops to do it.




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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-28 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
On Mon, 19 Oct 2020 at 21:31, Paul McClernan via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> >
> > OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
> > of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".
> >
> > I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
> > but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile
> it.
> > Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?
> >
>
> As others mentioned, this is dated information. However, last I checked
> macOS (or rather the "Darwin" layer of macOS) is POSIX compliant and built
> from BSD UNIX 4.4 & bits of FreeBSD. So, I would not be all that surprised
> if a LiveCode for macOS GUI-less/CLI executable could run on some other
> BSD.
>
>
That is not really how this works.

macOS is built on top of old NEXTSTEP and it is POSIX compliant but
that doesn't mean that LC from mac can work on BSD. MacOS uses the XNU
kernel, its executable file format and shared library file format are
unique and not related at all to anything that a BSD can run.

FreeBSD can run Linux binaries though as can be seen in the FreeBSD
Handbook:

https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html

This is done through emulation and I can't vouch for the performance or
correctness of it but, in theory you can install the necessary components
and libraries and then be able to run the Linux version of LC in FreeBSD.

Another option is trying to build from source. To be effective, this would
require knowledge of the FreeBSD ports and packages system besides knowing
enough of LC source and C++ to patch anything needed. I bet they'd love
such a contribution if you have the chops to do it.


-- 
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Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-19 Thread Paul McClernan via use-livecode
>
> OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
> of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".
>
> I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
> but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it.
> Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?
>

As others mentioned, this is dated information. However, last I checked
macOS (or rather the "Darwin" layer of macOS) is POSIX compliant and built
from BSD UNIX 4.4 & bits of FreeBSD. So, I would not be all that surprised
if a LiveCode for macOS GUI-less/CLI executable could run on some other BSD.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 12:08 PM Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have a question.   It's not a very important question and I don’t want
> to bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to
> respond,  I'm just curious.
>
> I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never saw a
> LiveCode server  "UNIX" version.
>
> The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, Android,
> OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
> of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".
>
> I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
> but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it.
> Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?
>
> I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working  with LiveCode
> server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many people
> develop software for this platforms nowadays).
> We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or BSD
> servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business).
>
> PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be
> interesting  to test it in FreeBSD.
>
> Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement
>
> Heriberto Torrado
> ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
> ​Director de informática
> Directeur informatique
>
> https://networkdreams.net
>
>
>
>
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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-18 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode

Hi Richmond,

I think it's because since the early 2000's, Linux is the UNIX-like 
standard platform in the world, and maybe Runrev realized that it is not 
worth it to put more effort into other UNIX platforms rather than Linux


It is a pity because now, Linux runs on 90% of the internet servers.
I love Linux, but monopolies are not good (even "free" monopolies).

Solaris, AIX and HP-UX are almost dead and BSDs and illumos derivations 
are decaying day by day.


There are still some companies using them in Spain, but they lack 
technicians, so they are stepping on the gas to get rid of them.
There are still some grey beards that refuse to toss them away, and 
maybe there are some opportunities working with them.


Still here in the US there are many governmental apartments using them.

Sadly, UNIX is part of a world that no longer exists.

Nice an updated reading: 
https://www.unixsheikh.com/articles/freebsd-is-an-amazing-operating-system.html


Best,
Hery

On 10/17/20 2:44 PM, Richmond via use-livecode wrote:
"But rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing 
and they obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, 
etc)"


That sounds super if it were true, but I don't think it is as RunRev 
(as they then were) dropped support for SPARC, UNIX and so

forth a long time before they began work on mobile platforms.

Richmond.

On 16.10.20 10:55, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote:

  Hi Heriberto

Back in the day (20 years ago) the engine/IDE ran on FreeBSD and various
proprietary unixes.

The Linux server version has been seen to work on FreeBSD back in 2011
(after installing Linux compatibility layer).

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Yay-Victory-RevServer-runs-on-FreeBSD-with-Linux-Compat-installed-td3445454.html 



You _might_ be able to get that to work now.  I doubt it would be 
supported
by Livecode.  What amazes me nowadays is just how much more complex 
things
are than they were 20 years ago - looking at the compatibility matrix 
for
Livecode dependencies on OS version, XCode version, device version -- 
all

just to produce apps that run on iOS:

https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

If someone had said 20 years ago that a small company in Scotland could
manage that kind of complexity people would have laughed in 
disbelief.  But
rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing and 
they
obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, etc) to 
be in

a situation to take on this level of complexity.

HTH Bernard

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 5:08 PM Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Dear all,

I have a question.   It's not a very important question and I don’t 
want

to bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to
respond,  I'm just curious.

I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never 
saw a

LiveCode server  "UNIX" version.

The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, 
Android,
OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several 
variations

of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".

I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to 
compile it.

Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?

I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working with 
LiveCode
server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many 
people

develop software for this platforms nowadays).
We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or 
BSD

servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business).

PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be
interesting  to test it in FreeBSD.

Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

https://networkdreams.net




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--

Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

*NetDreams S.C.*
http://www.networkdreams.net <http://www

Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-18 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode

Barnand, Thanks for your kindly response

"What amazes me nowadays is just how much more complex things
are than they were 20 years ago"

Yes,that's the main problem today.

Regardless of the programming language, nowadays we have to deal with desktops, 
mobiles, servers, etc. and that is crazy.

In the web design world, they "fixed" it using CSS + HTML + JS + SQL + "insert your 
favorite server language here", but that is also a mess too.

I miss the old days: Just Desktop & servers.:-(

As you said: I don't know how runrev (Livecode) can deal with that complexity 
level.
Five different platforms and 32 & 64 bits.

I'll try the Linux compatibility layer. I think the latest Solaris versions 
have it too.

Best,
Hery//


On 10/16/20 3:55 AM, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote:

  Hi Heriberto

Back in the day (20 years ago) the engine/IDE ran on FreeBSD and various
proprietary unixes.

The Linux server version has been seen to work on FreeBSD back in 2011
(after installing Linux compatibility layer).

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Yay-Victory-RevServer-runs-on-FreeBSD-with-Linux-Compat-installed-td3445454.html

You _might_ be able to get that to work now.  I doubt it would be supported
by Livecode.  What amazes me nowadays is just how much more complex things
are than they were 20 years ago - looking at the compatibility matrix for
Livecode dependencies on OS version, XCode version, device version -- all
just to produce apps that run on iOS:

https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

If someone had said 20 years ago that a small company in Scotland could
manage that kind of complexity people would have laughed in disbelief.  But
rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing and they
obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, etc) to be in
a situation to take on this level of complexity.

HTH Bernard

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 5:08 PM Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Dear all,

I have a question.   It's not a very important question and I don’t want
to bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to
respond,  I'm just curious.

I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never saw a
LiveCode server  "UNIX" version.

The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, Android,
OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".

I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it.
Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?

I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working  with LiveCode
server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many people
develop software for this platforms nowadays).
We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or BSD
servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business).

PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be
interesting  to test it in FreeBSD.

Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

https://networkdreams.net




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Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

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​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

*NetDreams S.C.*
http://www.networkdreams.net <http://www.networkdreams.net>

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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-18 Thread Bernard Devlin via use-livecode
Which is why my sentence finishes with "... to be in a situation to take on
this level of complexity." :-)

Apple first bought the domain iphone.org in 1999. That the iPhone was under
development was even being discussed by mainstream media such as the New
York Times in 2002. The public availability of the iPhone was announced by
Apple at the start of January 2007. Those with an ear to the ground would
have been considering their future options between 2002 and 2007. I'm glad
they had the foresight I didn't have.

Kind regards,
Bernard


On Sat, Oct 17, 2020 at 7:45 PM Richmond via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> That sounds super if it were true, but I don't think it is as RunRev (as
> they then were) dropped support for SPARC, UNIX and so
> forth a long time before they began work on mobile platforms.
>
> Richmond.
>
>
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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-17 Thread Richmond via use-livecode
"But rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing 
and they obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, etc)"


That sounds super if it were true, but I don't think it is as RunRev (as 
they then were) dropped support for SPARC, UNIX and so

forth a long time before they began work on mobile platforms.

Richmond.

On 16.10.20 10:55, Bernard Devlin via use-livecode wrote:

  Hi Heriberto

Back in the day (20 years ago) the engine/IDE ran on FreeBSD and various
proprietary unixes.

The Linux server version has been seen to work on FreeBSD back in 2011
(after installing Linux compatibility layer).

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Yay-Victory-RevServer-runs-on-FreeBSD-with-Linux-Compat-installed-td3445454.html

You _might_ be able to get that to work now.  I doubt it would be supported
by Livecode.  What amazes me nowadays is just how much more complex things
are than they were 20 years ago - looking at the compatibility matrix for
Livecode dependencies on OS version, XCode version, device version -- all
just to produce apps that run on iOS:

https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

If someone had said 20 years ago that a small company in Scotland could
manage that kind of complexity people would have laughed in disbelief.  But
rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing and they
obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, etc) to be in
a situation to take on this level of complexity.

HTH Bernard

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 5:08 PM Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Dear all,

I have a question.   It's not a very important question and I don’t want
to bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to
respond,  I'm just curious.

I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never saw a
LiveCode server  "UNIX" version.

The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, Android,
OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".

I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it.
Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?

I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working  with LiveCode
server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many people
develop software for this platforms nowadays).
We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or BSD
servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business).

PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be
interesting  to test it in FreeBSD.

Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

https://networkdreams.net




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Re: Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-16 Thread Bernard Devlin via use-livecode
 Hi Heriberto

Back in the day (20 years ago) the engine/IDE ran on FreeBSD and various
proprietary unixes.

The Linux server version has been seen to work on FreeBSD back in 2011
(after installing Linux compatibility layer).

http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Yay-Victory-RevServer-runs-on-FreeBSD-with-Linux-Compat-installed-td3445454.html

You _might_ be able to get that to work now.  I doubt it would be supported
by Livecode.  What amazes me nowadays is just how much more complex things
are than they were 20 years ago - looking at the compatibility matrix for
Livecode dependencies on OS version, XCode version, device version -- all
just to produce apps that run on iOS:

https://livecode.com/docs/9-5-0/faq/faq/

If someone had said 20 years ago that a small company in Scotland could
manage that kind of complexity people would have laughed in disbelief.  But
rightly LC saw where the future was headed with mobile computing and they
obviously had to make sacrifices along the way (e.g. FreeBSD, etc) to be in
a situation to take on this level of complexity.

HTH Bernard

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 5:08 PM Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have a question.   It's not a very important question and I don’t want
> to bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to
> respond,  I'm just curious.
>
> I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never saw a
> LiveCode server  "UNIX" version.
>
> The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, Android,
> OS X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations
> of Unix (I think is just means Linux)".
>
> I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,
> but I didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it.
> Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?
>
> I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working  with LiveCode
> server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many people
> develop software for this platforms nowadays).
> We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or BSD
> servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business).
>
> PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be
> interesting  to test it in FreeBSD.
>
> Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement
>
> Heriberto Torrado
> ​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
> ​Director de informática
> Directeur informatique
>
> https://networkdreams.net
>
>
>
>
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Livecode server UNIX version (not Linux).

2020-10-15 Thread Heriberto Torrado via use-livecode
Dear all,

I have a question.   It's not a very important question and I don’t want to 
bother you y 'all, so if you think is off-topic, feel free to not to respond,  
I'm just curious.

I've been working with Livecode for almost five years, and I never saw a 
LiveCode server  "UNIX" version.

The LiveCode Wikipedia’s article says this: LiveCode runs on iOS, Android, OS 
X, Windows 95 through Windows 10, Raspberry Pi and "several variations of Unix 
(I think is just means Linux)".

I'm thinking about tinkering with a FreeBSD server and LiveCode server,  but I 
didn't see a "UNIX" version, so I suppose that I have to compile it. 
Have any of you installed LiveCode server on FreeBSD (or Solaris)?

I'm just thinking, but maybe there's a small niche working  with LiveCode 
server on BSD or Solaris (still many companies use them and not many people 
develop software for this platforms nowadays).
We have a few companies in Spain (my country) still using Solaris or BSD 
servers (mainly in the Graphic arts business).

PS, I currently work with LiveCode Server on Centos, but it could be 
interesting  to test it in FreeBSD.

Best regards/ Saludos cordiales/ Cordialement 

Heriberto Torrado
​Chief Technology Officer (CTO)
​Director de informática
Directeur informatique

https://networkdreams.net




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Re: LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-13 Thread Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the description of your workflow, toolset and dev/test rig - an 
interesting direction of travel, especially as it extends to my current setup.

I really like the division of labour between the LC IDE for LC and Coda for 
html, CSS and native sync to server. Nice too, the 'closed-loop environment, 
with the local test stack that can call, display (and if necessary interrogate) 
specific rendered web pages.

So, my learning path moves on, from tools to building out my own dev/test 
scaffolding and moving my thinking from LC stacks with UI to script-only stacks 
in an LC Server CGI context serving web forms. Plenty of reading to do! :-)

Thanks & regards,
Keith

> On 12 Oct 2020, at 20:51, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Keith,
> 
> My workflow is not much different from Ralph's.
> 
> Short answer:
> 
>  - edit in IDE, test in IDE
> 
>  - upload to server using Coda 2  (which I also use to edit non-lc files).
> 
> Long answer:
> 
>  - I don't use any of the LCserver specific features -  no entangled html, no 
> includes, ... - everything is a regular script-only stack
> 
>  - I have a test stack that I use in the IDE which lets me specify which page 
> (and parameters, cookies, etc.) I want, generates the web page and displays 
> the output in a web browser instance within the testing stack.
> 
>  - when satisfied, I use Coda 2 to upload the LC files (I never edit them in 
> Coda))
> 
>  - I edit other files (menu definitions, form definitions, web pages, views, 
> etc.)  in Coda2
> 
> I use both on-rev and hostM for servers - both have everything already 
> installed,  good support, etc.
> 
> (tbh, if on-rev hadn't had a bad patch a few years ago with email problems, I 
> would probably never have strayed, but it's kind of good to know that hostM 
> is there as an alternate source in case I need it :-)
> 
> Alex.
> 
> On 12/10/2020 15:49, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> Thanks for the response, Ralph.
>> 
>> I've struggled to retain/regain my old local Sites, web server and LC Server 
>> on my home Macs. So, I was thinking of embarking down the script-only stacks 
>> route, using an on-rev LC-Server instance to do any web-services 
>> heavy-lifting work server-to-server, on behalf of client apps that use 
>> either LC desktop or simple html forms.
>> 
>> My html & css 'hackery-pokery' has been on Coda2 to date, but its 
>> replacement, Nova, still lacks any LiveCode autocompletion.
>> 
>> I may need to learn a new text-editing based IDE tool. Thanks for the Atom 
>> suggestion - I see that there's a LiveCode language pack available that 
>> includes LC Server, so that may be a better place to play than VS Code, etc.
>> 
>> Thanks & regards,
>> Keith
>> 
>>> On 12 Oct 2020, at 15:01, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Keith,
>>> 
>>> As a follow up... If you have a web server with LC installed running on your
>>> local machine then just a ctrl S in the LC IDE will let you test your server
>>> script(stack) immediately in the currently open IDE instance.
>>> 
>>> IDE alternatives to edit LC script only stacks are many. I use the Atom for
>>> LC builder and html(when Dreamweaver is just to much).
>>> 
>>> Ralph DiMola
>>> IT Director
>>> Evergreen Information Services
>>> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
>>> Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
>>> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:18 AM
>>> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
>>> Cc: Keith Clarke
>>> Subject: LiveCode server IDE
>>> 
>>> Hi folks,
>>> What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE -
>>> searching around, this seems down to personal preference of text editor plus
>>> FTP?
>>> 
>>> I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
>>> Thanks and regards,
>>> Keith
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
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>>> 
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>>> Pleas

Re: LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-12 Thread Alex Tweedly via use-livecode

Hi Keith,

My workflow is not much different from Ralph's.

Short answer:

 - edit in IDE, test in IDE

 - upload to server using Coda 2  (which I also use to edit non-lc files).

Long answer:

 - I don't use any of the LCserver specific features -  no entangled 
html, no includes, ... - everything is a regular script-only stack


 - I have a test stack that I use in the IDE which lets me specify 
which page (and parameters, cookies, etc.) I want, generates the web 
page and displays the output in a web browser instance within the 
testing stack.


 - when satisfied, I use Coda 2 to upload the LC files (I never edit 
them in Coda))


 - I edit other files (menu definitions, form definitions, web pages, 
views, etc.)  in Coda2


I use both on-rev and hostM for servers - both have everything already 
installed,  good support, etc.


(tbh, if on-rev hadn't had a bad patch a few years ago with email 
problems, I would probably never have strayed, but it's kind of good to 
know that hostM is there as an alternate source in case I need it :-)


Alex.

On 12/10/2020 15:49, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:


Thanks for the response, Ralph.

I've struggled to retain/regain my old local Sites, web server and LC Server on 
my home Macs. So, I was thinking of embarking down the script-only stacks 
route, using an on-rev LC-Server instance to do any web-services heavy-lifting 
work server-to-server, on behalf of client apps that use either LC desktop or 
simple html forms.

My html & css 'hackery-pokery' has been on Coda2 to date, but its replacement, 
Nova, still lacks any LiveCode autocompletion.

I may need to learn a new text-editing based IDE tool. Thanks for the Atom 
suggestion - I see that there's a LiveCode language pack available that 
includes LC Server, so that may be a better place to play than VS Code, etc.

Thanks & regards,
Keith


On 12 Oct 2020, at 15:01, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
 wrote:

Keith,

As a follow up... If you have a web server with LC installed running on your
local machine then just a ctrl S in the LC IDE will let you test your server
script(stack) immediately in the currently open IDE instance.

IDE alternatives to edit LC script only stacks are many. I use the Atom for
LC builder and html(when Dreamweaver is just to much).

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:18 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Keith Clarke
Subject: LiveCode server IDE

Hi folks,
What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE -
searching around, this seems down to personal preference of text editor plus
FTP?

I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
Thanks and regards,
Keith


Sent from my iPad
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RE: LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-12 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
Keith,

I use LC Server on the on-rev server. It is already setup and the support
from Heather/Robin is the best! I personally use regular standard issue
binary stacks for everything out of habit. These same stacks are also used
in my apps. This is what I love about LC server, it allows me to use my
libraries on the server and in apps. What other programming language does
this?

If you are doing web pages then look into revIgniter.
For a web service vanilla LC scripts do the trick. 

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net


-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 10:49 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Keith Clarke
Subject: Re: LiveCode server IDE

Thanks for the response, Ralph.

I've struggled to retain/regain my old local Sites, web server and LC Server
on my home Macs. So, I was thinking of embarking down the script-only stacks
route, using an on-rev LC-Server instance to do any web-services
heavy-lifting work server-to-server, on behalf of client apps that use
either LC desktop or simple html forms.

My html & css 'hackery-pokery' has been on Coda2 to date, but its
replacement, Nova, still lacks any LiveCode autocompletion.

I may need to learn a new text-editing based IDE tool. Thanks for the Atom
suggestion - I see that there's a LiveCode language pack available that
includes LC Server, so that may be a better place to play than VS Code, etc.

Thanks & regards,
Keith 

> On 12 Oct 2020, at 15:01, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
 wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
> As a follow up... If you have a web server with LC installed running 
> on your local machine then just a ctrl S in the LC IDE will let you 
> test your server
> script(stack) immediately in the currently open IDE instance.
> 
> IDE alternatives to edit LC script only stacks are many. I use the 
> Atom for LC builder and html(when Dreamweaver is just to much).
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On 
> Behalf Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:18 AM
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Cc: Keith Clarke
> Subject: LiveCode server IDE
> 
> Hi folks,
> What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE - 
> searching around, this seems down to personal preference of text 
> editor plus FTP?
> 
> I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
> Thanks and regards,
> Keith
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
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Re: LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-12 Thread Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Thanks for the response, Ralph.

I've struggled to retain/regain my old local Sites, web server and LC Server on 
my home Macs. So, I was thinking of embarking down the script-only stacks 
route, using an on-rev LC-Server instance to do any web-services heavy-lifting 
work server-to-server, on behalf of client apps that use either LC desktop or 
simple html forms.

My html & css 'hackery-pokery' has been on Coda2 to date, but its replacement, 
Nova, still lacks any LiveCode autocompletion.

I may need to learn a new text-editing based IDE tool. Thanks for the Atom 
suggestion - I see that there's a LiveCode language pack available that 
includes LC Server, so that may be a better place to play than VS Code, etc.

Thanks & regards,
Keith 

> On 12 Oct 2020, at 15:01, Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Keith,
> 
> As a follow up... If you have a web server with LC installed running on your
> local machine then just a ctrl S in the LC IDE will let you test your server
> script(stack) immediately in the currently open IDE instance.
> 
> IDE alternatives to edit LC script only stacks are many. I use the Atom for
> LC builder and html(when Dreamweaver is just to much).
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
> Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:18 AM
> To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Cc: Keith Clarke
> Subject: LiveCode server IDE
> 
> Hi folks,
> What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE -
> searching around, this seems down to personal preference of text editor plus
> FTP?
> 
> I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
> Thanks and regards,
> Keith
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
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> preferences:
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RE: LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-12 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
Keith,

As a follow up... If you have a web server with LC installed running on your
local machine then just a ctrl S in the LC IDE will let you test your server
script(stack) immediately in the currently open IDE instance.

IDE alternatives to edit LC script only stacks are many. I use the Atom for
LC builder and html(when Dreamweaver is just to much).

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:18 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Keith Clarke
Subject: LiveCode server IDE

Hi folks,
What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE -
searching around, this seems down to personal preference of text editor plus
FTP?

I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
Thanks and regards,
Keith


Sent from my iPad
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RE: LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-12 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
I use the standard issue LC IDE to edit the server script, do a "Ctrl S" and
use either a web disk or VPN to drag the saved file to the server. Then I
test my web service in the currently opened IDE. Fast debug cycle.
Easy-peezy...

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf
Of Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 3:18 AM
To: use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
Cc: Keith Clarke
Subject: LiveCode server IDE

Hi folks,
What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE -
searching around, this seems down to personal preference of text editor plus
FTP?

I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
Thanks and regards,
Keith


Sent from my iPad
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LiveCode server IDE

2020-10-12 Thread Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Hi folks,
What is the current state of the art regarding LiveCode server IDE - searching 
around, this seems down to personal preference of text editor plus FTP?

I'm Mac-based and looking to experiment with web services.
Thanks and regards,
Keith


Sent from my iPad
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Re: LiveCode Server Under MAMP

2020-05-27 Thread Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode
I have done that some time ago, nowadays I usually use MAMP Pro if I need more 
sophistication. But I’ll make a try to find it..

:-Håkan
On 27 May 2020, 17:50 +0200, Rick Harrison via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Did you get MAMP to work with SSL?
>
> If you do, let me know as then you might catch my interest.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rick
>
> > On May 27, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
> >  wrote:
> >
> > Ouch,
> >
> > Hit send to early, new try:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS 
> > Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> >
> > 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> > 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the 
> > cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard 
> > installation )
> > 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> > 4. Find the  section and just before 
> > the  you add:
> > AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> > Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> > NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server 
> > with livecode-community-server
> > 5. Just after  add a new line with:
> > ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server 
> > /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the 
> > community version.
> > 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and 
> > tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server 
> > can’t be trusted with no options to allow.
> > 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click 
> > the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have 
> > an “Open” button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for 
> > an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> > 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every 
> > file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in 
> > succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> > 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode 
> > server up and running!
> >
> > There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is 
> > to use:
> > spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> > sudo spctl …
> >
> > So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next 
> > web project ;)
> >
> > Happy Coding!
> >
> > :-Håkan
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
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>
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Re: LiveCode Server Under MAMP

2020-05-27 Thread Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode
Not at all! Go ahead.

:-Håkan
On 27 May 2020, 18:14 +0200, matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
, wrote:
> Håkan,
>
> would you mind if i take your steps and create a detailed Livecode Lesson 
> with it?
>
>
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
>
> > Am 27.05.2020 um 17:44 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
> > :
> >
> > Ouch,
> >
> > Hit send to early, new try:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS 
> > Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> >
> > 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> > 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the 
> > cgi-bin folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard 
> > installation )
> > 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> > 4. Find the  section and just before 
> > the  you add:
> > AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> > Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> > NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server 
> > with livecode-community-server
> > 5. Just after  add a new line with:
> > ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server 
> > /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the 
> > community version.
> > 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and 
> > tries to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server 
> > can’t be trusted with no options to allow.
> > 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click 
> > the application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have 
> > an “Open” button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for 
> > an admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> > 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every 
> > file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in 
> > succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> > 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode 
> > server up and running!
> >
> > There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is 
> > to use:
> > spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> > You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> > sudo spctl …
> >
> > So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next 
> > web project ;)
> >
> > Happy Coding!
> >
> > :-Håkan
> > ___
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> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
> > subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
>
>
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Re: LiveCode Server Under MAMP

2020-05-27 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Håkan,

would you mind if i take your steps and create a detailed  Livecode Lesson with 
it?


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 27.05.2020 um 17:44 schrieb Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Ouch,
> 
> Hit send to early, new try:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS 
> Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> 
> 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin 
> folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard 
> installation )
> 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> 4. Find the  section and just before 
> the  you add:
> AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server 
> with livecode-community-server
> 5. Just after  add a new line with:
> ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server 
> /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the 
> community version.
> 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries 
> to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can’t be 
> trusted with no options to allow.
> 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the 
> application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an 
> “Open” button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an 
> admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every 
> file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in 
> succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode 
> server up and running!
> 
> There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to 
> use:
> spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> sudo spctl …
> 
> So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web 
> project ;)
> 
> Happy Coding!
> 
> :-Håkan
> ___
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> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: LiveCode Server Under MAMP

2020-05-27 Thread Rick Harrison via use-livecode
Did you get MAMP to work with SSL?

If you do, let me know as then you might catch my interest.

Thanks,

Rick

> On May 27, 2020, at 11:44 AM, Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Ouch,
> 
> Hit send to early, new try:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS 
> Catalina and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.
> 
> 1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
> 2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin 
> folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard 
> installation )
> 3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
> 4. Find the  section and just before 
> the  you add:
> AddHandler livecode-script .lc
> Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
> NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server 
> with livecode-community-server
> 5. Just after  add a new line with:
> ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server 
> /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the 
> community version.
> 6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries 
> to access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can’t be 
> trusted with no options to allow.
> 7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the 
> application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an 
> “Open” button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an 
> admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
> 8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every 
> file in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in 
> succession you will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
> 9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode 
> server up and running!
> 
> There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to 
> use:
> spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
> You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
> sudo spctl …
> 
> So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web 
> project ;)
> 
> Happy Coding!
> 
> :-Håkan
> ___
> use-livecode mailing list
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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LiveCode Server Under MAMP

2020-05-27 Thread Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode
Ouch,

Hit send to early, new try:

Hi,

I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina 
and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.

1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin 
folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard 
installation )
3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
4. Find the  section and just before the 
 you add:
AddHandler livecode-script .lc
Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server
NOTE: IF your have the community server you should replace livecode-server with 
livecode-community-server
5. Just after  add a new line with:
ScriptAlias /livecode-cgi/livecode-server 
/Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
Again replace livecode-server with livecode-community-server if you use the 
community version.
6. Now if you restart MAMP and add a .lc file into your web folder and tries to 
access it, you will se a prompt that says that livecode-server can’t be trusted 
with no options to allow.
7. To allow unnotarized applications under MacOS you need to right-click the 
application and select open. You will then get a prompt where you have an 
“Open” button. If you click that you will get another prompt asking for an 
admin user and password. Fill in and continue.
8. Now you finally have to repeat the procedure for every lib (i.e. every file 
in the drivers and the externals folder. But if you do them in succession you 
will probably not get the admin prompt more than once.
9. Now you should have a local web development under MAMP with livecode server 
up and running!

There is also a command line option for point 7 (and 8) above and that is to 
use:
spctl --add /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin/livecode-server
You will get the same prompt for admin user unless you do
sudo spctl …

So, no there is no excuse for not starting to use LiveCode for your next web 
project ;)

Happy Coding!

:-Håkan
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LiveCode Server not notarized?

2020-05-27 Thread Håkan Liljegren via use-livecode
Hi,

I was trying to get LiveCode server up and running under MAMP in macOS Catalina 
and if anyone is interested. This is what I did to get it running.

1. Download and unpack LiveCode Server
2. Move livecode-server, drivers folder and externals folder into the cgi-bin 
folder in MAMP. ( /Applications/MAMP/cgi-bin if you have a standard 
installation )
3. Open up /Applications/MAMP/conf/apache/httpd.conf
4. Find the  section and just before the 
 you add:
AddHandler livecode-script .lc
Action livecode-script /livecode-cgi/livecode-server

Added
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Re: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?

2020-05-10 Thread John McKenzie via use-livecode


 Hello, Kieth.

 My health problems have kept me from really participating on the list
for a long time but I stayed as I want to get back to using Livecode at
some point. Your question about linux distros for server use on old
hardware though is something I can comment on.

 Sorry I did not post this earlier before you more or less made a
decision. At first I though the suggestions made were terrible because
you said it was old hardware. Then I realized the problem is I am old
and the others who responded were not picturing machines from the mid
1990's unlike me.

 I would go along with the suggestions made, especially the Lubuntu one
assuming your hardware can handle it. If it cannot please post a
follow up with an idea of how old your hardware is and I will make some
specific recommendations. Let us hope your machine is not so old we
start talking about Slackware installations but if we do I will get you
some help with it. :-)

 The best way to make Ubuntu more efficient is to use a desktop
environment (DE) that is less fancy and therefore less resource
intensive. (Any flavour of Ubuntu can make use of any DE just by
installing some extra software packages. Keep that in mind if you for
some reason need to change the DE.)

 We could make the system even more efficient by starting with a base
Debian install and building it up piece by piece to what you need.
(Ubuntu is Debian based by the way.) Not as newbie friendly as
installing Lubuntu but not hard either. Just something I am throwing
out there as a backup plan. We can discuss it if you need it, but you
will probably be OK with trying Lubuntu, etc.

 Good luck. Post a follow up if your hardware cannot handle the initial
suggestions and we discuss other options.



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Re: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?

2020-05-10 Thread Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Great, thanks - to all who responded - nothing quite like a shortlist of one to 
ease decision-making! :)

Time to have a play...
Best,
Keith..

>> On 9 May 2020, at 20:01, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Keith Clarke wrote:
>> Hi folks,
>> Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest
>> way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server
>> for lightweight ‘LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?
>> I’ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to
>> delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am
>> very much the newbie on this.
> 
> Ubuntu, without question.
> 
> There many great distros, and I don't think there is a single "best". But 
> Ubuntu has by far the largest installed base, so most of the tutorials and 
> other support materials you'll find are written with Ubuntu in mind.
> 
> This is especially true on servers. Heck, even on Microsoft's Azure cloud 
> ecosystem. Ubuntu is the leading OS.
> 
> Desktop:
> https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop
> 
> Server:
> https://ubuntu.com/download/server
> 
> You may change later; some folks like to distro-hop often. But the vast range 
> of support materials makes Ubuntu the go-to starting point for getting into 
> Linux.
> 
> 
>> Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the
>> cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!
> 
> You can check the requirements at the site, but you probably don't need to 
> worry about it.  If it's for a sever you won't need the GUI desktop edition, 
> and it's the desktop where requirements tend to be much higher.  There's a 
> flavor of Ubuntu for everything from Raspberry Pi to supercomputing clusters 
> - you should have no trouble finding one for your old PCs. The Server edition 
> should get you up and running on just about any machine made in the last 10 
> years or more.
> 
> 
> If you want a GUI desktop edition and have an old machine that's a bit 
> underpowered for Ubuntu, there's a lightweight flavor you can use:
> 
> https://lubuntu.net/
> 
> Lubuntu is the leanest Ubuntu flavor I've tried.  It's been running on my 
> desk almost continuously for the last decade, downloading, collating, and 
> posting data for the info you see in LiveNet (see the GoLiveNet plugin in 
> LC's Plugins menu).
> 
> I prefer Ubuntu's Gnome Shell for my main workstation, but on lower-powered 
> machines I've been impressed with how efficiently Lubuntu runs.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
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Re: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?

2020-05-09 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode

On 5/9/20 6:46 AM, Keith Clarke via use-livecode wrote:

Hi folks,
Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest way to 
repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server for lightweight 
‘LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?

I’ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to delve below 
C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am very much the newbie on 
this.

Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the cupboard to 
reach to source an appropriate box!


Agreed that it's Ubuntu. Shouldn't have to worry about the hardware 
specs, but do note that the LC release notes limit the "officially 
supported" Ubuntu versions to 14.04 and 16.04, if that matters to you 
(hint: it shouldn't).



--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?

2020-05-09 Thread JeeJeeStudio via use-livecode

i would use Ubuntu server as there is much info about it

on HowtoForge.com are very nice tutorials on how to setup Linux servers 
for several distributions of your choice.


You can use these to set up a VPS, but also a Laptop or whatever to use 
as a server.




Op 9-5-2020 om 15:46 schreef Keith Clarke via use-livecode:

Hi folks,
Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest way to 
repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server for lightweight 
‘LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?

I’ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to delve below 
C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am very much the newbie on 
this.

Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the cupboard to 
reach to source an appropriate box!

Thanks & regards,
Keith
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Re: Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?

2020-05-09 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Keith Clarke wrote:
> Hi folks,
> Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest
> way to repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server
> for lightweight ‘LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?
>
> I’ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to
> delve below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am
> very much the newbie on this.

Ubuntu, without question.

There many great distros, and I don't think there is a single "best". 
But Ubuntu has by far the largest installed base, so most of the 
tutorials and other support materials you'll find are written with 
Ubuntu in mind.


This is especially true on servers. Heck, even on Microsoft's Azure 
cloud ecosystem. Ubuntu is the leading OS.


Desktop:
https://ubuntu.com/download/desktop

Server:
https://ubuntu.com/download/server

You may change later; some folks like to distro-hop often. But the vast 
range of support materials makes Ubuntu the go-to starting point for 
getting into Linux.



> Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the
> cupboard to reach to source an appropriate box!

You can check the requirements at the site, but you probably don't need 
to worry about it.  If it's for a sever you won't need the GUI desktop 
edition, and it's the desktop where requirements tend to be much higher. 
 There's a flavor of Ubuntu for everything from Raspberry Pi to 
supercomputing clusters - you should have no trouble finding one for 
your old PCs. The Server edition should get you up and running on just 
about any machine made in the last 10 years or more.



If you want a GUI desktop edition and have an old machine that's a bit 
underpowered for Ubuntu, there's a lightweight flavor you can use:


https://lubuntu.net/

Lubuntu is the leanest Ubuntu flavor I've tried.  It's been running on 
my desk almost continuously for the last decade, downloading, collating, 
and posting data for the info you see in LiveNet (see the GoLiveNet 
plugin in LC's Plugins menu).


I prefer Ubuntu's Gnome Shell for my main workstation, but on 
lower-powered machines I've been impressed with how efficiently Lubuntu 
runs.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Recommended (simple) Linux distro for Livecode server home dev/test?

2020-05-09 Thread Keith Clarke via use-livecode
Hi folks,
Which distro(s) would you recommend for a Linux newbie as the easiest way to 
repurpose an old PC, Mac Laptop or Mini to host Livecode Server for lightweight 
‘LAMP/LAML' dev/test dabbling?

I’ve never had a Linux desktop machine and server-wise, never had to delve 
below C-Panel & WHM on hosted VPS Linux environments - so am very much the 
newbie on this.

Hardware specs would be useful, too - to gauge how far back on the cupboard to 
reach to source an appropriate box!  

Thanks & regards,
Keith   
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Livecode Server - Email

2019-11-28 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
I have a email CGI from a very old cgi for the days when "revolution" was the 
server

Now with LiveCode server, Ubuntu 18+  does have 

/usr/sbin/sendmail

installed, at least I see that, but this old process does not work

put "/usr/sbin/sendmail -t" into mprocess
open process mprocess for write
write "From:" && (urlDecode (tDataIn["from"]))& cr to process mprocess
write "To:" &&   tRecipients  &  cr to process mprocess
write "Subject:" &&   (urlDecode (tDataIn["subject"]))   &  cr & cr to 
process mprocess
write(urlDecode (tDataIn["body"])) &  cr to process mprocess
close process mprocess   
if the result is not empty then 
 put the result into tResponse
else 
put tResponse
end if

I think we don't use "open process" anymore. What is the LiveCode server method 
now?

BR


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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-19 Thread Ralf Bitter via use-livecode
Thanks for the info Todd. This explains why I had
an issue on Mac OS. I once added the directive to .htaccess.

Ralf


> On 19. Oct 2019, at 06:08, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> GOOD NEWS - Got it to work. Someone should take note an issue with
> Apache 2 and LiveCode server
> 
> SetEnvIf Authorization "(.*)" HTTP_AUTHORIZATION=$1
> 
> For Linux in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf
> 
> For Mac (using Homebrew) in /usr/local/etc/httpd/httpd.conf
> 
> Adding this to .htaccess didn't work for some reason - only Apache
> config worked:
> RewriteEngine On
> RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization} ^(.*)
> RewriteRule .* - [e=HTTP_AUTHORIZATION:%1]
> 
> --Todd & Lagi


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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-19 Thread Jjs via use-livecode
I meant the pre-last message at the lesson on how to install lc server on linux 
server. A very good explanation.

Jjs via use-livecode  schreef op 19 oktober 2019 
14:10:19 CEST:
>Follow the pre-last message too, which describes how to install with
>latest apache 2.x, don't mess with Apache 2.conf. the lesson should
>updated as it is no longer valid.
>
>Todd Fabacher via use-livecode  schreef
>op 19 oktober 2019 06:08:03 CEST:
>>GOOD NEWS - Got it to work. Someone should take note an issue with
>>Apache 2 and LiveCode server
>>
>>SetEnvIf Authorization "(.*)" HTTP_AUTHORIZATION=$1
>>
>>For Linux in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf
>>
>>For Mac (using Homebrew) in /usr/local/etc/httpd/httpd.conf
>>
>>Adding this to .htaccess didn't work for some reason - only Apache
>>config worked:
>>RewriteEngine On
>>RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization} ^(.*)
>>RewriteRule .* - [e=HTTP_AUTHORIZATION:%1]
>>
>>--Todd & Lagi
>>
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-19 Thread Jjs via use-livecode
Follow the pre-last message too, which describes how to install with latest 
apache 2.x, don't mess with Apache 2.conf. the lesson should updated as it is 
no longer valid.

Todd Fabacher via use-livecode  schreef op 19 
oktober 2019 06:08:03 CEST:
>GOOD NEWS - Got it to work. Someone should take note an issue with
>Apache 2 and LiveCode server
>
>SetEnvIf Authorization "(.*)" HTTP_AUTHORIZATION=$1
>
>For Linux in /etc/apache2/apache2.conf
>
>For Mac (using Homebrew) in /usr/local/etc/httpd/httpd.conf
>
>Adding this to .htaccess didn't work for some reason - only Apache
>config worked:
>RewriteEngine On
>RewriteCond %{HTTP:Authorization} ^(.*)
>RewriteRule .* - [e=HTTP_AUTHORIZATION:%1]
>
>--Todd & Lagi
>
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Ralf Bitter via use-livecode


> On 17. Oct 2019, at 19:27, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> HI Ralph
> 
> Basically the server script does this
> 
> put arrayEncode($_SERVER) and sends back everything within the $_SERVER
> variable
> we then decode it in the App 
> 
> It gives us everything shown in the documentation but not the header info
> 
> 
>   - GATEWAY_INTERFACE
>   - SERVER_ADDR
>   - SERVER_NAME
>   - SERVER_SOFTWARE
>   - 
>   - SCRIPT_NAME
>   - SCRIPT_FILENAME
>   - CONTENT_TYPE
>   - CONTENT_LENGTH
> 
> But not the headers
> 
> Hope that helps
> 
> Lagi


OK, in case you are interested in all the headers the
server sends in response to a request you might indeed probably
find the answer by checking out the code in revliburl.livecodescript.
But just including the script only stack (using “start using stack”)
won’t work right away. Seems there are modifications needed
to be able to get a value from libURLLastRHheaders().
Would be glad to be wrong.

Ralf
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
HI Ralph

Basically the server script does this

put arrayEncode($_SERVER) and sends back everything within the $_SERVER
variable
we then decode it in the App 

It gives us everything shown in the documentation but not the header info


   - GATEWAY_INTERFACE
   - SERVER_ADDR
   - SERVER_NAME
   - SERVER_SOFTWARE
   - 
   - SCRIPT_NAME
   - SCRIPT_FILENAME
   - CONTENT_TYPE
   - CONTENT_LENGTH

But not the headers

Hope that helps

Lagi



On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 17:55, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
>
> > On 17. Oct 2019, at 17:24, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > There is no  $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"] in the docs the closest is
> > $_SERVER["HTTP] but since
> > the code gives an error and the return is empty it's a moot point.
>
>
> Lagi, the original question was:
>
> > how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
> > LiveCode Script on the server??
>
>
> because
>
> > we want to do basic validation by passing a token from
> > the App to the server script.
>
>
> Please correct me if I am on the wrong track, but to my
> understanding the issue is related to reading
> the Authorization request header sent by an app to
> the server. In this case there is a server variable
> $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"] which can be read
> by LC server. Of course there is no  $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"]
> in the docs.
>
>
> Ralf
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Ralf Bitter via use-livecode



> On 17. Oct 2019, at 17:24, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> There is no  $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"] in the docs the closest is
> $_SERVER["HTTP] but since
> the code gives an error and the return is empty it's a moot point.


Lagi, the original question was:

> how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
> LiveCode Script on the server??


because

> we want to do basic validation by passing a token from
> the App to the server script.


Please correct me if I am on the wrong track, but to my
understanding the issue is related to reading
the Authorization request header sent by an app to
the server. In this case there is a server variable
$_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"] which can be read
by LC server. Of course there is no  $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"]
in the docs.


Ralf
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
Hi Everybody


If anybody else (Mark? even) has any insights

We have found this function libURLLastRHheaders, which seems to get the
last headers set to the server.
 In the documentation, it indicates that it works on the Server version.

We put it in the server code, but get the following error which indicates
that the lib is NOT included on the server.


file /var/www/html/xb_admin_accountant_new.lc
  row 12, col 8: Function: error in function handler (libURLLastRHHeaders)
  row 12, col 8: put: error in expression


My question is, does the internet lib work on LC Server so we can call
libURLLastRHHeaders?

If YES, then which files do we add to the server and where. Also, do we
need to add an include line in the script to load the function?


Thanks for your help


Regards Lagi (and Todd)

btw

There is no  $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"] in the docs the closest is
$_SERVER["HTTP] but since
the code gives an error and the return is empty it's a moot point.




On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 15:13, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Lagi, sorry for not expressing myself well. Of course I
> meant the whole process including reading HTTP
> headers on the server.
> This means $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"]
> should not be empty in your case
>
>
> Ralf
>
>
>
> > On 17. Oct 2019, at 15:51, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Ralf,
> >
> > The problem isn't the sending of the headers but reading them using
> > livecode server.
> > We are using Linux servers so the Mac problem is not an issue.
> >
> > Via PHP the call is get_headers ( string $url [, int $format = 0 [,
> > resource $context ]] ) : array
> >
> > Basically is there a way of doing that in pure livecode server?
> >
> > Regards Lagi (and Todd)
> >
> > On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 14:18, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Todd, sending Authorization HTTP request headers
> >> to LC server on Linux should work. I have
> >> troubles with request headers too, but only on Mac OS.
> >>
> >>
> >> Ralf
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 17. Oct 2019, at 13:56, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode <
> >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello all,
> >>>
> >>> We are running LC Server Scripts to process some DB request and we
> >>> want to do basic validation by passing a token from the App to the
> >>> server script.
> >>>
> >>> The problem is I can not find where I can get the headers on the
> >>> server. I looked in $_SERVER, but not there. I see the CONTENT_TYPE
> >>> and HTTP ACCEPTS which I set in my header, but I can's find anything
> >>> else from the header that was posted.
> >>>
> >>> Does anyone know how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
> >>> LiveCode Script on the server?? Thanks for the help.
> >>>
> >>> --Todd Fabacher
>
>
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Ralf Bitter via use-livecode
Lagi, sorry for not expressing myself well. Of course I
meant the whole process including reading HTTP
headers on the server.
This means $_SERVER["HTTP_Authorization"]
should not be empty in your case


Ralf



> On 17. Oct 2019, at 15:51, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ralf,
> 
> The problem isn't the sending of the headers but reading them using
> livecode server.
> We are using Linux servers so the Mac problem is not an issue.
> 
> Via PHP the call is get_headers ( string $url [, int $format = 0 [,
> resource $context ]] ) : array
> 
> Basically is there a way of doing that in pure livecode server?
> 
> Regards Lagi (and Todd)
> 
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 14:18, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Todd, sending Authorization HTTP request headers
>> to LC server on Linux should work. I have
>> troubles with request headers too, but only on Mac OS.
>> 
>> 
>> Ralf
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 17. Oct 2019, at 13:56, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode <
>> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com <mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello all,
>>> 
>>> We are running LC Server Scripts to process some DB request and we
>>> want to do basic validation by passing a token from the App to the
>>> server script.
>>> 
>>> The problem is I can not find where I can get the headers on the
>>> server. I looked in $_SERVER, but not there. I see the CONTENT_TYPE
>>> and HTTP ACCEPTS which I set in my header, but I can's find anything
>>> else from the header that was posted.
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
>>> LiveCode Script on the server?? Thanks for the help.
>>> 
>>> --Todd Fabacher


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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
Hi Ralf,

The problem isn't the sending of the headers but reading them using
livecode server.
We are using Linux servers so the Mac problem is not an issue.

Via PHP the call is get_headers ( string $url [, int $format = 0 [,
resource $context ]] ) : array

Basically is there a way of doing that in pure livecode server?

Regards Lagi (and Todd)

On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 14:18, Ralf Bitter via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Todd, sending Authorization HTTP request headers
> to LC server on Linux should work. I have
> troubles with request headers too, but only on Mac OS.
>
>
> Ralf
>
>
>
> > On 17. Oct 2019, at 13:56, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > We are running LC Server Scripts to process some DB request and we
> > want to do basic validation by passing a token from the App to the
> > server script.
> >
> > The problem is I can not find where I can get the headers on the
> > server. I looked in $_SERVER, but not there. I see the CONTENT_TYPE
> > and HTTP ACCEPTS which I set in my header, but I can's find anything
> > else from the header that was posted.
> >
> > Does anyone know how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
> > LiveCode Script on the server?? Thanks for the help.
> >
> > --Todd Fabacher
>
>
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> subscription preferences:
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Re: LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Ralf Bitter via use-livecode
Todd, sending Authorization HTTP request headers
to LC server on Linux should work. I have
troubles with request headers too, but only on Mac OS.


Ralf



> On 17. Oct 2019, at 13:56, Todd Fabacher via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We are running LC Server Scripts to process some DB request and we
> want to do basic validation by passing a token from the App to the
> server script.
> 
> The problem is I can not find where I can get the headers on the
> server. I looked in $_SERVER, but not there. I see the CONTENT_TYPE
> and HTTP ACCEPTS which I set in my header, but I can's find anything
> else from the header that was posted.
> 
> Does anyone know how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
> LiveCode Script on the server?? Thanks for the help.
> 
> --Todd Fabacher


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LiveCode Server

2019-10-17 Thread Todd Fabacher via use-livecode
Hello all,

We are running LC Server Scripts to process some DB request and we
want to do basic validation by passing a token from the App to the
server script.

The problem is I can not find where I can get the headers on the
server. I looked in $_SERVER, but not there. I see the CONTENT_TYPE
and HTTP ACCEPTS which I set in my header, but I can's find anything
else from the header that was posted.

Does anyone know how to read an "Authorization: Bearer" header in
LiveCode Script on the server?? Thanks for the help.

--Todd Fabacher

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Re: "do as 'LiveCode Server'"?

2019-04-23 Thread Sannyasin Brahmanathaswami via use-livecode
Agreed that this would have "serious" positive benefits. I imagine  at least 
one use case where input at the UX/UI level would fork the "narrative" response 
from your script in different directions. It would be so easy to write!

BR

Richard Gaskin  

You can write:


Here's some text

Here's some other text


It would be ideal to have the merge function outfitted with this sort of 
logic handling, but there may be backwards-compatibility issues I'm not 
thinking of.

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"do as 'LiveCode Server'"?

2019-04-22 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
Over the years I've had many occasions where I would have loved to have 
something like bash's heredoc, a way of putting a block of text within 
code but without the encumbrance of concatenation, as requested here:


https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17471


Another option is to turn the problem inside-out, in which we have a 
block of text in which we can sprinkle LiveCode commands.


Superficially, we have this now with the merge function.

But the merge function has many limitations, such as no means of using 
conditionals or loops with text blocks between those elements.


However,

LiveCode Server has no such limitation.

You can write:


   Here's some text

   Here's some other text


It would be ideal to have the merge function outfitted with this sort of 
logic handling, but there may be backwards-compatibility issues I'm not 
thinking of.


So maybe at a minimum we could have some other means of using LC 
Server's powerful ability to mix text and code together, with something 
like:


  do tVarContainingLCServerCompatibleText as "LiveCode Server"

Thoughts?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems

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Re: Thoughts on Livecode Server

2019-01-24 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

David Bovill wrote:

> I want to be able to use standard javascript libraries where they
> are available and not have to code every library myself in Livecode.

Practical, even smart.  But disappointing. :)  It would be super-cool if 
we had time to rewrite those in native LC, so the body of code in our 
community grows.  But I can't argue against the practicality of not 
reinventing every wheel.



> So the main requirement - I think - is for practical Javascript
> interoperability on the server side. Ideally we could just "do
> javascript" in the server environment, and load whatever node modules
> we want to do their thing in Javascript = Livecode server extensions
> written in Javascript.
>
> Based on your feedback that we can use "the template xxx" or a stack
> with a widget and execute these in the server environment - the
> thought is that "do as javascript in browser" would do the job here...

Embedding an entire browser application into a GUI widgets seems an 
expensive way to execute JavaScript.  On the desktop we have little 
choice, but in a Node.js environment isn't there some way to pass JS off 
to Node for evaluation?


Whether through command line or sockets or whatever else Node may 
provide, since it already has a great JS interpreter it would seem a 
shame to introduce a second one just for LC.


Moreover, I'm not sure the embedded browser app has options for running 
facelessly; designed for GUI rendering, I would expect it requires GUI 
libs not normally present on servers.


We sometimes get spoiled by LC's GUI-agnostic design, where a simple -ui 
flag turns a GUI system into CLUI.  I'm not sure browser vendors provide 
that.


I don't have enough experience with Node.js to point toward a solution, 
but I suspect that a JS-based environment has options for evaluating JS.


If simpler methods like a command-line call to Node aren't available for 
that, I would imagine any API it has can be accessed from LC Builder.




> The other strategy is basically a web assembly (WASM) take on the same
> issue. WASM promises (AFAIK) a medium term strategy not just for
> creating elements in the browser - but also for creating applications
> based on gluing together various wasm components that could be
> authored in different environments / languages.

Apparently WASM is available in Node.js, so once you work out how to 
exchange calls between LC and Node I'd guess that could include WASM code.




> Related to this approach could be a stop-gap experiment where we
> create a javascript server in node / vue - that loads a Livecode
> engine and modules based on emscripten export.

I would be disinclined to use an interpreted version of the LC engine 
while a machine-code compiled version is available.


Maybe I'm not seeing the vision there, but I can't see the advantage of 
using a version of the engine which can only execute more slowly and 
require more RAM than the compiled version we already know and love.




> From my perspective I'm looking to develop some slow applications over
> a 3-5 year timescale - from that perspective a LAMP / cgi style
> solution looks like it might be a question of running an emulator :)

Maybe.  Half a decade is a long time; so much can happen.  Emulators are 
good where emulation is needed, but it's hard to beat the horsepower of 
machine-native code.



> I also need a positive path / argument for investing more in Livecode
> long term - so having a clearer picture about where the whole open
> language / emscripten / wasm / server strategy is going would give me
> a warm feeling inside. It's also kind of interesting :)

Very interesting.  Perhaps Mark Waddingham will be in a position to tip 
his hand about future options.


For client-side work I would imagine the Emscripten team already has 
WASM output, so LC would likely be able to use that output with little 
work from the LC team, at least for those browsers that support WASM at 
this time.



For the bigger question about justifying investment in LC, there are so 
many factors there that for myself I consider it almost entirely 
subjective, and often positively favoring LC in that regard.


If developers were to choose languages based only on popularity rather 
than features, there would be only one.  But we have hundreds, with new 
ones invented every year.


Ruby was a nearly-forgotten niche project that enjoyed an explosion of 
interest only after some clever team outside of the Ruby core project 
decided to invest in building a framework unique to that language they 
called Rails.


There's always the chance that a sufficiently-compelling toolkit will 
emerge in our community, based wholly in LC as Rails is on Ruby, where 
the benefits are so self-evident it takes off as rapidly as RoR did.




An arguably space-cadet-but-maybe-not PS:

I'm still not over the grace and utility of delivering sta

Re: Thoughts on Livecode Server

2019-01-24 Thread David Bovill via use-livecode
Thanks for the time replying Richard!

Let me outline where a bit the context of my questions. It's not about the
basics of how to rn a server / cgi. It's about the relatively long term
direction of server technology and Livecode server. I'm interested to
experiment with Livecode server again as i feel there are soe promising
recent advances which make the technology interesting to develop for long
term.

I'm very familiar with Pierre's work. I think th eIPC / socket based
approach with dockers and cluster management behind a reverse proxy is the
best way to go / standard way to go right now for achieving a scaleable
server deployment with Livecode in the mix, I'd use Livecode for doing
things that I can do quickly in that language and use the more standard
(probably javascript based) web servers for handling standard web traffic.
I'd probably use Livecode for creating authoring environments. I want to be
able to use standard javascript libraries where they are available and not
have to code every library myself in Livecode.

So the main requirement - I think - is for practical Javascript
interoperability on the server side. Ideally we could just "do javascript"
in the server environment, and load whatever node modules we want to do
their thing in Javascript = Livecode server extensions written in
Javascript.

Based on your feedback that we can use "the template xxx" or a stack with a
widget and execute these in the server environment - the thought is that
"do as javascript in browser" would do the job here... this might be a
pragmatic way to develop server side logic in a mix of Javascript and
Livescript without the need for the whole cluster-docker-sockets thing.

The other strategy is basically a web assembly (WASM) take on the same
issue. WASM promises (AFAIK) a medium term strategy not just for creating
elements in the browser - but also for creating applications based on
gluing together various wasm components that could be authored in different
environments / languages.

Related to this approach could be a stop-gap experiment where we create a
javascript server in node / vue - that loads a Livecode engine and modules
based on emscripten export. Again we get a javascript server and access to
the large set of open source modules available with (hopefully?)
bidirectional communication with Javascript.

>From my perspective I'm looking to develop some slow applications over a
3-5 year timescale - from that perspective a LAMP / cgi style solution
looks like it might be a question of running an emulator :) I also need a
positive path / argument for investing more in Livecode long term - so
having a clearer picture about where the whole open language / emscripten /
wasm / server strategy is going would give me a warm feeling inside. It's
also kind of interesting :)

But I'm sure there are people here that know much more than I do about
these issues. Really happy to have feedback - negative or positive /
pointers on things to read / learn!



On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 19:18, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> David Bovill wrote:
>
>  > Does anyone have any thoughts on where Livecode server should go / is
>  > going?
>
> So far it goes wherever I take it, so I haven't given much thought
> beyond one enhancement request for init optimization (useful for CGI,
> will make no difference for any use as a persistent process):
> https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115
>
>
>  > *Full power of Livecode?*
>  > My first question is what are the actual limits of what you can do on
>  > the server, as compared with the desktop version? I haven't pushed
>  > this to the limit so maybe yo have?
>
> LC Server is designed to run under CGI.  As with any other CGI, anything
> you can do in launch-run-reply-quit command-line scenario will work
> whether it's local or on a server.
>
>
>  > For instance if I want to integrate Javascript / node.js code into my
>  > server, can I use the built in two way communication between
>  > Javascript and Livecode?
>
> I haven't used LC Server for persistent processes, only CGI. I have used
> standalones for that, however (run with the -ui flag).
>
> Pierre Sahores has done extensive benchmarking on using LC behind a
> reverse proxy (NGineX IIRC?), and I did some tests in a related thread
> using standalones as HTTP daemons directly.
>
> I don't have enough familiarity with Node.js configuration to have an
> opinion about integrating with that specifically, but Pierre might.
> Most folks seem content with CGI use.
>
>
>  > This also leads on to the more general question about the headless
>  > Livecode environment of the server - are then any limits to script
>  > that does stuff like create a stack, add a browser element to the
>  > st

Re: Thoughts on Livecode Server

2019-01-23 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

David Bovill wrote:

> Does anyone have any thoughts on where Livecode server should go / is
> going?

So far it goes wherever I take it, so I haven't given much thought 
beyond one enhancement request for init optimization (useful for CGI, 
will make no difference for any use as a persistent process):

https://quality.livecode.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14115


> *Full power of Livecode?*
> My first question is what are the actual limits of what you can do on
> the server, as compared with the desktop version? I haven't pushed
> this to the limit so maybe yo have?

LC Server is designed to run under CGI.  As with any other CGI, anything 
you can do in launch-run-reply-quit command-line scenario will work 
whether it's local or on a server.



> For instance if I want to integrate Javascript / node.js code into my
> server, can I use the built in two way communication between
> Javascript and Livecode?

I haven't used LC Server for persistent processes, only CGI. I have used 
standalones for that, however (run with the -ui flag).


Pierre Sahores has done extensive benchmarking on using LC behind a 
reverse proxy (NGineX IIRC?), and I did some tests in a related thread 
using standalones as HTTP daemons directly.


I don't have enough familiarity with Node.js configuration to have an 
opinion about integrating with that specifically, but Pierre might. 
Most folks seem content with CGI use.



> This also leads on to the more general question about the headless
> Livecode environment of the server - are then any limits to script
> that does stuff like create a stack, add a browser element to the
> stack

A browser is a GUI element.  What would its role be in the server 
environment?


If you need to make HTTP requests you can do that far more efficiently 
directly in LC, without encumbering it with an entire separate complex 
browser app embedded in a GUI widget.



> set behaviors

Common features like frontscripts, backscripts, libraries, and behaviors 
all work whether running GUI or CLUI.



> communicate with the newly created stack

In the same process, as easy as with GUI.  Across processes with sockets 
or pipes, or polling in /run/shm/ or other useful location.



> (and hence Javascript

Node-specific stuff is outside my current experience, but given that LC 
supports the most commonly used forms of IPC I can't imagine it couldn't 
be integrated in one way or another.



> destroy the stack and return a result to the browser?

As CGI no need to destroy anything, since everything in the process goes 
away after the reply is delivered to Apache or whatever else calls it.



> I'll be testing this soon, but are there limits to this approach
> (apart form speed)?

Speed is a concern in CGI environments, where the entire runtime life 
cycle from launch to quit happens with each request; each request spawns 
a new process, so every millisecond counts.


CGI keeps things discrete and easy to work with (which is how we got the 
"C" in "CGI" ), but lazy or complex programming on a sufficiently 
buzy server can create bottlenecks with CPU time and/or RAM.


But that's not an LC thang, that's just how CGI works. Comparing some 
custom scripts to popular frameworks like Drupal shows LC is quite lean 
and performant by comparison (averaging 1/3 CPU time and 1/5 RAM across 
the few scenarios I've benchmarked).


It's an unfair comparison, given the scope of what Drupal does, but was 
enough to encourage me to continue pursuing custom solutions in LC, as I 
can write things from scratch more quickly in LC than I can figure out 
how to move from Drupal 7 to Drupal 8. ;)


Many get hung up on the "But does it scale?" question, but Guy Kawasaki 
and others remind us how many startups fail because they overspent on 
scaling for a market they never grew into because they'd spent all their 
money prematurely on scaling. :)


Look at the number of even reasonably popular sites running through 
Wordpress/PHP on a shared host.  Scaling is overrated for many projects 
that don't have significant marketing budgets to warrant accommodating 
such traffic loads.



> *Emscripten export?*
> How about using the exported javascript in the server? Could we have a
> node.js based server which server-side uses the big fat Livecode
> javascript engine, and exported Livecode HTML5 exported stacks as
> server side code?

The main benefit of the HTML export is to provide a GUI for browser 
clients.  I can't think of any advantage in using an interpreted version 
of the engine on a server when a machine-code-compiled version is available.



> *Livecode Docker behind reverse proxy*
> This is sort of the default I would say in moving on from Nginx or
> Apache based hosting of Livecode server. Does anyone have any plans /
> experience of doing this?

I don't have the URLs handy at the moment, but Pierre's benchmarks 
posted here a 

Thoughts on Livecode Server

2019-01-22 Thread David Bovill via use-livecode
Does anyone have any thoughts on where Livecode server should go / is going?

I thought I'd throw out a few things that have been on my mind to see what
other people are thinking and where the actual underlying technology is
heading. Context - I use Livecode server and Revigniter - but not to the
full ability and I'm looking to improve the way I host things and plan a
strategy moving forwards.

*Full power of Livecode?*
My first question is what are the actual limits of what you can do on the
server, as compared with the desktop version? I haven't pushed this to the
limit so maybe yo have?

For instance if I want to integrate Javascript / node.js code into my
server, can I use the built in two way communication between Javascript and
Livecode? This also leads on to the more general question about the
headless Livecode environment of the server - are then any limits to script
that does stuff like create a stack, add a browser element to the stack,
set behaviors, communicate with the newly created stack (and hence
Javascript, destroy the stack and return a result to the browser?

I'll be testing this soon, but are there limits to this approach (apart
form speed)?

*Emscripten export?*
How about using the exported javascript in the server? Could we have a
node.js based server which server-side uses the big fat Livecode javascript
engine, and exported Livecode HTML5 exported stacks as server side code?

*Livecode Docker behind reverse proxy*
This is sort of the default I would say in moving on from Nginx or Apache
based hosting of Livecode server. Does anyone have any plans / experience
of doing this?
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RE: Livecode Server Post

2019-01-11 Thread Ralph DiMola via use-livecode
Ahh

Your test worked even when I ran it on my account. This confused me for a while 
but I finally found my problem.
Unless you reference the $_Post variable once the script hangs for a second and 
then returns nothing. Bug or feature?
I Commented out the last line "put $_POST["test"]" of your post.lc and it hangs 
for a moment and return nothing. But change it to "put $_POST["test"] into 
tVar" then the previous puts are returned(displayed) and no momentary hang.

Matthias, Thanks for your Help!! This one was a head scratcher for a 1/2 hour. 
I don't know how long it would have taken if you did not send me a script that 
worked. I was just doing some initial tests to get wired into LC server and was 
just testing $_Server["REQUEST_METHOD"] to examine the request method. Funny 
though, if the method is "get" then there is no requirement to touch the $_Get 
variable.

Ralph DiMola
IT Director
Evergreen Information Services
rdim...@evergreeninfo.net

-Original Message-
From: use-livecode [mailto:use-livecode-boun...@lists.runrev.com] On Behalf Of 
Matthias Rebbe via use-livecode
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2019 2:39 AM
To: How to use LiveCode
Cc: Matthias Rebbe
Subject: Re: Livecode Server Post

Hi Ralph,

i tried here now in the message box with the following lc server script "

put "this is the posted value for test:"
put ""
put $_POST["test"]
?>


TIO On-Rev  Commercial Server 7.1
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc 
<https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc>"
put it

TIO On-Rev Community server 9.0.1
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc9 
<https://canary.on-rev.com/post.lc9>"
put it

HostM Professional Server 9.0.2
post "test=HELLO" To URL "https://mr.dermattes.de/post.lc 
<https://mr.dermattes.de/post.lc>"
put it


All 3 tests are successful and all expected information including the post 
value is displayed.


I will keep the post.lc files online for the next 2 days for you to test with 
my accounts.

Regards,

Matthias


Matthias Rebbe

free tools for Livecoders:
https://instamaker.dermattes.de <https://instamaker.dermattes.de/>
https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de <https://winsignhelper.dermattes.de/>

> Am 11.01.2019 um 03:05 schrieb Ralph DiMola via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> When do a post to an LC server script from a .html form no output of "put"s 
> are displayed, just a blank screen. There is also a slight delay until the 
> screen clears. I tested to see if the LC script is actually being executed. 
> It is because I created a file but no display of "Put"s. If I change the 
> method to "get" in the .html form the put in the same .lc is immediately 
> displayed with no delay.
> I want to use post so the params aren’t in the URL and the page can't be 
> bookmarked.
> LC server 9.02 Business on on-rev diesel.
> 
> What am I missing?
> 
> Thanks All!
> 
> Ralph DiMola
> IT Director
> Evergreen Information Services
> rdim...@evergreeninfo.net <mailto:rdim...@evergreeninfo.net>
> 
> 
> 
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