Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-26 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
:) I was aware for several days that we'd usurped the topic but on the 
other hand, it was indeed this week in LC and now due to end.


If anyone else wants to add a comment, now is the last day. :)
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On March 26, 2021 5:10:45 AM Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
 wrote:


On 25 Mar 2021, at 23:29, james--- via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I went for a bike ride this morning.

Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really 
related to the subject anymore.


Didn’t want to feel left out ;-)




huahuahuaahuahuahuahuaahuahu



James

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-26 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 25 Mar 2021, at 23:29, james--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I went for a bike ride this morning.
> 
> Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really 
> related to the subject anymore.
> 
> Didn’t want to feel left out ;-)
> 


huahuahuaahuahuahuahuaahuahu


> James
> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread james--- via use-livecode
I went for a bike ride this morning.

Just thought I would add a post under this subject that is no longer really 
related to the subject anymore.

Didn’t want to feel left out ;-)

James

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Jacque,
if you use ftps:// and enable use_ssl then the mode is 'FTP over SSL implicit'. 
If your FTP Server does not support this mode, then you get an error. So it 
seems your server does only support FTPS explicit and not implicit
FTPS implicit is not very common. Most shared hosts support ftp/sftp and ftps 
explicit. 

Maybe you missed my comment yesterday. tsNet decides which FTP mode is used 
just by the url prefix. There is no need to change any port. This is 
automatically handled by tsNET

URL prefixuse_sslMode 
ftp://   false  FTP
ftp://.  true  FTPeS (ftp over SSL 
explicit) sometimes also called FTPS explicit
ftps:// true   FTPS (ftp over SSL 
implicit) FTPS implicit




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 25.03.2021 um 20:22 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> On 3/25/21 12:52 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> If I continue to use only "ftp" and "use_ssl" then it works but I am not 
>> sure whether the connection is actually encrypted or not.
> 
> Just to complete this little journey, I think I'm in business. I use "ftp" in 
> the URL which defaults to port 21, and tsnet "use_ssl". The server response 
> says: AUTH TLS OK. It also says an unidentified security scheme is not 
> implemented but then goes ahead and uses SSL anyway. This is what came back:
> 
> Transfer complete with server response code 226
> 220-- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] --
> 220-You are user number 5 of 50 allowed.
> 220-Local time is now 14:57. Server port: 21.
> 220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
> 220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
> 220 You will be disconnected after 15 minutes of inactivity.
> 500 This security scheme is not implemented
> 234 AUTH TLS OK.
> 331 User  OK. Password required
> 230 OK. Current restricted directory is /
> 200 PBSZ=0
> 200 Data protection level set to "private"
> 257 "/" is your current location
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/
> 250 OK. Current directory is /public_html//
> 229 Extended Passive mode OK (|||44775|)
> 200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary
> 150 Accepted data connection
> 226-File successfully transferred
> 226 0.140 seconds (measured here), 345.46 Kbytes per second
> 
> So my little upload tool, inspired by Andre's book, is now working and will 
> save me maybe 5 seconds and three clicks about once a month. :) But there is 
> some satisfaction in that.
> 
> As for using AppleScript, Fetch has removed AppleScript support in its latest 
> release. The docs say it hopes to bring it back in the future. I suspect 
> conflicts with Big Sur or something similar. But that's why I wasn't 
> "authorized."
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/25/21 12:52 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
If I continue to use only "ftp" and "use_ssl" then it works but I am not sure whether the 
connection is actually encrypted or not.


Just to complete this little journey, I think I'm in business. I use "ftp" in the URL which 
defaults to port 21, and tsnet "use_ssl". The server response says: AUTH TLS OK. It also says 
an unidentified security scheme is not implemented but then goes ahead and uses SSL anyway. 
This is what came back:


Transfer complete with server response code 226
220-- Welcome to Pure-FTPd [privsep] [TLS] --
220-You are user number 5 of 50 allowed.
220-Local time is now 14:57. Server port: 21.
220-This is a private system - No anonymous login
220-IPv6 connections are also welcome on this server.
220 You will be disconnected after 15 minutes of inactivity.
500 This security scheme is not implemented
234 AUTH TLS OK.
331 User  OK. Password required
230 OK. Current restricted directory is /
200 PBSZ=0
200 Data protection level set to "private"
257 "/" is your current location
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html/
250 OK. Current directory is /public_html//
229 Extended Passive mode OK (|||44775|)
200 TYPE is now 8-bit binary
150 Accepted data connection
226-File successfully transferred
226 0.140 seconds (measured here), 345.46 Kbytes per second

So my little upload tool, inspired by Andre's book, is now working and will save me maybe 5 
seconds and three clicks about once a month. :) But there is some satisfaction in that.


As for using AppleScript, Fetch has removed AppleScript support in its latest release. The docs 
say it hopes to bring it back in the future. I suspect conflicts with Big Sur or something 
similar. But that's why I wasn't "authorized."


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/25/21 7:19 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode wrote:

Not accepting AppleScript from other apps basically defeats the reason to use 
AppleScript IMHO… those devs are crazy.


I reported the wrong error message. I tried it again and it said "You are unauthorized to use 
AppleScript." There must be something I need to set up.


What I was trying to do when ftp failed was use a nice one-liner:
launch  with . The built-in LC command uses AppleScript 
on Mac OS and that's when I got the error.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com


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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/24/21 5:44 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

It seems Fetch usesftps://  for both  FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit)  and FTPS 
(FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered.
If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used.
If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit).


I tried setting the URL to "ftps" and got "tsneterr: (7) Failed to connect to hyperactivesw.com 
port 990: Operation timed out." So I removed "use_ssl" from the login array but still got the 
same error. Apparently TSNet uses port 990 if the URL is "ftps".


If I continue to use only "ftp" and "use_ssl" then it works but I am not sure whether the 
connection is actually encrypted or not.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Andre Garzia wrote:
>> On 25 Mar 2021, at 14:58, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>> Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a
>> lot of decision-making, and since most of the rest of the
>> world makes the same choice at least we're in good company. :)
>
> Also, HTTP/HTTPS are usually enabled on firewalls, makes your
> life a lot easier when you don’t need to tell your user that
> they need to fiddle with firewall rules.

Ah yes, I remember the good ol' days when Internet P2P seemed promising, 
shut down once everyone began reconsider the implications of expanding 
the attack surface with open ports...


--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 25 Mar 2021, at 14:58, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a lot of 
> decision-making, and since most of the rest of the world makes the same 
> choice at least we're in good company. :)

Also, HTTP/HTTPS are usually enabled on firewalls, makes your life a lot easier 
when you don’t need to tell your user that they need to fiddle with firewall 
rules.
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Andre Garzia wrote:

> On 24 Mar 2021, at 23:50, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>
>> And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows
>> Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling
>> on all OSes:
...
> If you have control of the Windows machine, then you can set it up to
> run as you want, but if you’re shipping software for end-users, you
> can’t assume WSL Ubuntu is there so you can run rsync.
>
> I know you didn’t say that but often I see scripts in other
> communities that assume a ton of stuff (even on macOS where
> many scripts assume homebrew is present).

True, I didn't say that. What I said was:

In this discussion of personal plugins run on macOS,
a macOS solution seemed appropriate.

We often see AppleScript presented on this list, as it was in this 
discussion as well.  But it's far less pervasive than bash: it's only 
available on macOS, with no option at all for using it anywhere else. 
And it's only well supported in an ever-smaller percentage of apps (not 
to mention slow, finicky, and hugely unpopular with the Steve Jobs/NeXT 
acolytes running much of Apple's tech divisions).


For most sysadmin tasks, these days Apple nudges us toward shell, with a 
large and growing number of bash examples in their dev docs.  macOS 
being a certified Unix, bash is a good choice for Apple to promote, and 
for developers and sysadmins to use.



Of course for any customer-facing solution we'll want to be mindful of 
dependencies.


But since everyone here is a developer, and this discussion is about 
developers making tools for themselves, appreciating the full scope of 
options available to us doesn't seem a mistake.


Modern macOS development increasingly means being familiar with 
Terminal. Time spent there is not only necessary for many things, but as 
we learn how to integrate the shell with LiveCode the options for 
automation of both local and remote workflows becomes nearly as 
limitless as one's imagination.




As for Windows, Microsoft doesn't pour millions into building out 
subsystems on a whim. Their embrace of the Linux shell for developers is 
as much a part of their well-thought-out strategy as Nadella's embrace 
of open source.


Microsoft understands what we see in the work that comes our own desks: 
in the modern world, software development is usually client-server 
development, with half of most systems we deliver living in the cloud.


Microsoft IIS remains deeply entrenched within the enterprise, but most 
things customer-facing are Linux. Indeed, even on Microsoft's own Azure 
the most popular OS is Ubuntu.


Like Apple, Microsoft is actively encouraging devs to consider adopting 
bash as a prime choice for admin tasks.  It's where the tooling is, and 
on dev systems it's being made ever more available for today's 
interoperable workflows.


We don't have a truly universal admin language, but bash is as close as 
we get right now:  built into every Mac, native to every Linux server we 
work with, and with strong developer support by Microsoft.


--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems



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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread doc hawk via use-livecode

andre amplified,
>Next time, I’m leaving them in.

Ahh.  The director’s cut . . .

:_)


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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Andre Garzia wrote:

> Devising your own binary file transfer protocol based purely on TCP
> sockets is a very tedious and error prone process that will get you
> no advantages unless you really have some special need that is not
> solved by any of the solutions that already exists.
>
> The easiest way to work around not being able to use FTP and friends,
> is with a simple HTTP server and a CGI on the server machine that has
> logic for receiving file uploads, then you simply use either libURL or
> TSNet to send the files.


When SuperCard introduced socket programming to the Mac xTalk world with 
its companion Marionette add-on, being young folk we got all excited 
about crafting custom protocols for every little thing we needed.


It was a good learning experience, and I came to appreciate the vast 
range of styles in writing clients for NNTP, Gnutella, and FTP, in 
addition to the random protocols I came up with on my own.


But the biggest lesson I learned is not to write custom protocols. :) 
It's a lot of work to get them working well, and far more work to make 
them secure and robust.


These days I rarely think about protocols at all, at least in 
customer-facing code. I've adopted using HTTP as the default solution 
for everything, unless I have a specific reason not to use it.


Most of what we need from a server is to submit a request and get a 
reply, and occasionally have some metadata along for the ride.  HTTP 
does that well, with very slim header requirements that are also vastly 
extensible, so metadata is as simple or rich as you need in the moment. 
 There's more documentation and tooling for HTTP than any other 
protocol, so it's easy to learn to use it well, and if another 
programming joins the team they can work with your code effortlessly.


Defaulting to HTTP for customer-facing systems simplifies a lot of 
decision-making, and since most of the rest of the world makes the same 
choice at least we're in good company. :)


--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems


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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 25 Mar 2021, at 01:14, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I suppose everything networking uses sockets, but these are protocols with 
> standardized ways of establishing the connection and securing it. I was 
> thinking of a custom client server file transfer method, but whether or not 
> it could work for Jacque, I don’t know.
> 
> Bob S

Devising your own binary file transfer protocol based purely on TCP sockets is 
a very tedious and error prone process that will get you no advantages unless 
you really have some special need that is not solved by any of the solutions 
that already exists.

The easiest way to work around not being able to use FTP and friends, is with a 
simple HTTP server and a CGI on the server machine that has logic for receiving 
file uploads, then you simply use either libURL or TSNet to send the files.
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 24 Mar 2021, at 23:50, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows 
> Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling on all 
> OSes:

Just be aware that WSL is not activated by default, and you can’t assume which 
distro is installed (even though Ubuntu is probably 90% of the installs). There 
are shell commands you can use to probe if WSL is installed, which distros are 
installed, and also execute something on a specific installed distro.

All that is possible but it is not exactly trivial. Windows is quite flexible 
in a way that most systems are not. You might be running on Intel or ARM, you 
might be running 32bits or 64bits, you might be using cmd, powershell 5 or 7, 
bash, who knows what shell is running. Your distros under WSL might be WSL1 
(which is syscall translations) or WSL2 (which is hypervisor emulator). You 
kinda need to take those things into account if you’re running shell() commands 
or trying to bundle binaries.

If you have control of the Windows machine, then you can set it up to run as 
you want, but if you’re shipping software for end-users, you can’t assume WSL 
Ubuntu is there so you can run rsync.

I know you didn’t say that but often I see scripts in other communities that 
assume a ton of stuff (even on macOS where many scripts assume homebrew is 
present).
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 24 Mar 2021, at 19:12, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Andre: After TSNet failed, I did try to use AppleScript but Fetch put up a 
> dialog that it did not allow AppleScript sent from other apps. And BTW, next 
> time leave in the fun stuff. :)

Not accepting AppleScript from other apps basically defeats the reason to use 
AppleScript IMHO… those devs are crazy. Anyway, that sucks. I know that 
Transmit has a pretty comprehensive AppleScript dictionary as can be seen in:

https://andregarzia.com/img/shots/transmit-dictionary.png 


It is not a cheap software though, but I think it is worthy it.

Next time, I’m leaving the fun bits :-)
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-25 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode


> On 24 Mar 2021, at 17:11, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think there may be other questions in play as well.
> Will I learn anything from doing this?
> Will I have fun experimenting with it?
> Are there more pressing things I need to do instead?
> etc.

YES, a thousand times yes!

More than half of what I develop here falls into all these categories. I can 
push the “trying this just for fun” pretty far. The last project I made that 
was a fun experiment was 
https://andregarzia.com/2020/04/starting-project-moon-hermit.html 
 and I still 
love it even though it is not really a project or product.

The book is framed around a mindset for building stuff for business needs, not 
for personal growth and understanding, and not for fun. It is more like: “these 
patterns are good when you’re doing something that we would normally call ‘a 
job’.” That doesn’t mean that every other mode of development is excluded or 
less important. 

I think that the ethos of that book can be summarised as in being a mode of 
thinking that prioritises developer comfort and safety in maintaining a 
business or a long project.

Maybe, the next book will be about having fun while developing. Don’t know...
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
I suppose everything networking uses sockets, but these are protocols with 
standardized ways of establishing the connection and securing it. I was 
thinking of a custom client server file transfer method, but whether or not it 
could work for Jacque, I don’t know.

Bob S


On Mar 24, 2021, at 4:53 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

I don't understand.  FTP, SFTP, FTPS, scp, and rsync all use sockets.

Are you suggesting Jacque write her own file upload protocol?

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

I don't understand.  FTP, SFTP, FTPS, scp, and rsync all use sockets.

Are you suggesting Jacque write her own file upload protocol?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems



Bob Sneidar wrote:

> Or sockets.
>
> Bob S
>
>
> On Mar 24, 2021, at 4:22 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
>> FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file
>> repositories.
>>
>> For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-
>> liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to
>> code.
>>
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems


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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
In this discussion of personal plugins run on macOS, a macOS solution 
seemed appropriate.


And with Windows 10, Microsoft is now embracing Linux in its Windows 
Subsystem for Linux, so Win folk can enjoy industry standard tooling on 
all OSes:


https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/learn/modules/get-started-with-windows-subsystem-for-linux/1-introduction

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems




 matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
Wed Mar 24 19:35:02 EDT 2021
-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code


Am 25.03.2021 um 00:22 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode :

FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories.

For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner via 
shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code.


But only on macOS and Linux. Windows has not any of those tools included by 
default.




--
Richard Gaskin




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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Or sockets.

Bob S


On Mar 24, 2021, at 4:22 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories.

For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner via 
shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code.

--
Richard Gaskin
Fourth World Systems

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 25.03.2021 um 00:22 schrieb Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file repositories.
> 
> For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a one-liner 
> via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler to code.
> 
But only on macOS and Linux. Windows has not any of those tools included by 
default.



> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode
FTP is a great protocol for open-ended traversal of remote file 
repositories.


For just transferring a file, scp or rsync with shared keys is a 
one-liner via shell(), and will be faster in addition to being simpler 
to code.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems




matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de matthias_livecode_150811 at m-r-d.de
Wed Mar 24 18:51:56 EDT 2021

what i forgot

my previous overview

Server scheme use sslis protocol
ftp://   false  ftp
ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
ftps://  trueftp over SSL implicit


is how tsNet needs the server url


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code


Am 24.03.2021 um 23:44 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode :

I've just had a quick look at the documentation of Fetch. 
It seems Fetch uses ftps:// for both  FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit)  and FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. 
If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. 
If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit).


Btw. it is not granted that an FTP server supports all modes.

Regards,
Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code


Am 24.03.2021 um 23:25 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode :

On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

Server scheme use sslis protocol
ftp://   false  ftp
ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
ftps://  trueftp over SSL implicit


Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with 
"ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jacque at hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
what i forgot

my previous overview
>>> Server scheme use sslis protocol
>>> ftp://   false  ftp
>>> ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
>>> ftps://  trueftp over SSL 
>>> implicit

is how tsNet needs the server url


-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.03.2021 um 23:44 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I've just had a quick look at the documentation of Fetch. 
> It seems Fetch uses ftps:// for both  FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit)  and FTPS 
> (FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. 
> If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. 
> If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit).
> 
> Btw. it is not granted that an FTP server supports all modes.
> 
> Regards,
> Matthias
> 
> -
> Matthias Rebbe
> Life Is Too Short For Boring Code
> 
>> Am 24.03.2021 um 23:25 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>>> Server scheme use sslis protocol
>>> ftp://   false  ftp
>>> ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
>>> ftps://  trueftp over SSL 
>>> implicit
>> 
>> Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start 
>> with "ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
>> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
>> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
I've just had a quick look at the documentation of Fetch. 
It seems Fetch uses ftps:// for both  FTPeS (FTP over SSL explicit)  and FTPS 
(FTP over SSL implicit). But it depends on the port number you have entered. 
If you keep port 21 then FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit) is used. 
If you set the port to 990 then Fetch uses FTPS (FTP over SSL implicit).

Btw. it is not granted that an FTP server supports all modes.

Regards,
Matthias

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.03.2021 um 23:25 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> Server scheme use sslis protocol
>> ftp://   false  ftp
>> ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
>> ftps://  trueftp over SSL 
>> implicit
> 
> Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with 
> "ftps" so now I'm not sure what it's doing.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/24/21 4:02 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

Server scheme use sslis protocol
ftp://   false  ftp
ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
ftps://  trueftp over SSL implicit


Thanks. Fetch documentation says that FTP with TLS/SSL URLs should start with "ftps" so now I'm 
not sure what it's doing.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode

-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.03.2021 um 21:47 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> On 3/24/21 3:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:
>> tsNET returns the 'standard' curl error codes. I have bookmarked the 
>> followingurl to  get help, if i got stuck with tsNET and its error code.
>> https://curl.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html
> 
> Thanks, that will be convenient. TSNet also gave a brief description which 
> clued me to the error.
> 
> I gave Scott the wrong lesson URL. Scott, the first one was what I used to 
> test (and the one that gave the error) but after I got that working I used 
> this lesson:
> 
> 
> I had to add "put true into tSettings["use_SSL"]" to the login array in the 
> example and change "put URL("file:"...)" to use "binfile" because I was 
> uploading a stack. Other than that, no changes to the example.
> 
> I'm curious though. I didn't change the server scheme, it still uses "ftp://; 
> but Fetch is now set to use SSL, it shows a padlock in its listing, and I set 
> "use_SSL" to true in the script. Can I assume it really is a secure 
> connection or do I need to change "ftp" to "FTPs" or something else? Fetch 
> did accept the upload without error.
> 
Server scheme use sslis protocol
ftp://   false  ftp
ftp://.  true  ftp over SSL explicit
ftps:// trueftp over SSL implicit





> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/24/21 3:00 PM, matthias rebbe via use-livecode wrote:

tsNET returns the 'standard' curl error codes. I have bookmarked the 
followingurl to  get help, if i got stuck with tsNET and its error code.
https://curl.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html


Thanks, that will be convenient. TSNet also gave a brief description which 
clued me to the error.

I gave Scott the wrong lesson URL. Scott, the first one was what I used to test (and the one 
that gave the error) but after I got that working I used this lesson:



I had to add "put true into tSettings["use_SSL"]" to the login array in the example and change 
"put URL("file:"...)" to use "binfile" because I was uploading a stack. Other than that, no 
changes to the example.


I'm curious though. I didn't change the server scheme, it still uses "ftp://; but Fetch is now 
set to use SSL, it shows a padlock in its listing, and I set "use_SSL" to true in the script. 
Can I assume it really is a secure connection or do I need to change "ftp" to "FTPs" or 
something else? Fetch did accept the upload without error.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Jacque,

tsNET returns the 'standard' curl error codes. I have bookmarked the 
followingurl to  get help, if i got stuck with tsNET and its error code.
https://curl.se/libcurl/c/libcurl-errors.html




-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.03.2021 um 20:39 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> On 3/24/21 2:12 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:
>> My server didn't like it and returned TSNet error 60.
> 
> I fixed it! The issue was that the certificate name didn't match my domain 
> name since I'm on a shared host. I had to set up Fetch to always trust the 
> certificate anyway.
> 
> As the Wise Wieder said, my code is happier now. So am I.
> 
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/24/21 2:12 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode wrote:

My server didn't like it and returned TSNet error 60.


I fixed it! The issue was that the certificate name didn't match my domain name since I'm on a 
shared host. I had to set up Fetch to always trust the certificate anyway.


As the Wise Wieder said, my code is happier now. So am I.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/23/21 10:53 PM, scott--- via use-livecode wrote:

Scott: I followed the lesson here: 


My server didn't like it and returned TSNet error 60.

Andre: After TSNet failed, I did try to use AppleScript but Fetch put up a dialog that it did 
not allow AppleScript sent from other apps. And BTW, next time leave in the fun stuff. :)


Matthias: I may take you up on your kind offer for assistance. I automated most of the actions 
a long time ago and I already know how to send via FTP, but in this case I want a secure 
connection.


Bob: this particular plugin won't be of use to anyone else. Andre's book focuses on plugins and 
scripts that enhance your own private work flow, and that fits exactly with what I do. In fact, 
I have a plugin of various development handlers that is automatically inserted as a backscript 
every time LC launches. I'm so used to it that I'm crippled if it isn't there.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode

On 3/24/21 12:11 PM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode wrote:

my code just seems happier in general these days.


To paraphrase: If code ain't happy, ain't nobody happy.*


*For our non-US friends, it's an American dialect thing, originally: "If mama ain't happy, 
ain't nobody happy." And you can believe that my husband throws that at me now and then. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode

On 3/24/21 8:19 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

The question I always ask myself is, will I ever benefit from this again? 
Additionally, can anyone else ever benefit from this?


I think there may be other questions in play as well.
Will I learn anything from doing this?
Will I have fun experimenting with it?
Are there more pressing things I need to do instead?
etc.

Bernd Niggeman has pushed me to start working with the styledText array 
of fields, and we've been refactoring the glx2 script editor to use 
this. It's been painful, but along the way we've uncovered some areas 
where it makes a lot of sense and is much faster than manipulating text 
in a field, but also found cases where it makes things much harder 
and/or slows operations down.


I can't say that much of what I've been learning is in the category of 
"things I'll put to use again", and we've put in way more time on this 
project than we could ever justify for the ROI, but the end result is 
satisfying, I've found a new bug report to file, and my code just seems 
happier in general these days.


--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
The question I always ask myself is, will I ever benefit from this again? 
Additionally, can anyone else ever benefit from this?

Bob S


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A 
couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools and 
plugins but I did get some ideas from the book.

I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. So the next 
question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have done 
it faster the manual way?

I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't 
work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole project. 
So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut.
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | 
jac...@hyperactivesw.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Folks,

Thanks a lot for the kind words, it really made my day! <3

Mark, I guarantee that I learned more from you than you from me.

Scott, exploding tea infusers are quite dangerous. We managed to get a refund 
but I’m still terrified of what happened. As for coffee, I’m deep into coffee 
stuff, if you liked that Hario Switch Dripper shown there, you might also enjoy 
the Clever Dripper which makes very similar coffee but it costs way less. About 
25 bucks if I remember. I just find the Hario Switch Dripper prettier. Thanks a 
ton for the kind words as well.

Jacque, I think you made a good choice in deciding to stop working on your FTPs 
tool. It is not worthy to devote too much time into a tool that you won’t see 
much usage. Much easier to create a tool that helps you use Fetch or whatever 
client you normally use. This is a prime candidate for a stack that uses 
AppleScript to automate Fetch (or Transmit, my preferred client). Let me tell 
you that I removed a ton of funny footnotes from the text. Originally the text 
was much more fun, but I was afraid people wouldn’t like it so I removed most 
of the jokes and useless-but-flavourful notes. Next time, I’m leaving them in.

Matthias, you got it! Thats the exact use case that bespoke tools are made for. 
Making something that you need to do often repeatable and safe. 

Bob, oh I never learned to play any musical instrument even though I tried a 
bunch of them. I’m happy that you’re making good use of the book.


So for those that already read it, is there any kind of extra topic or material 
regarding plugins and bespoke tools that you’d like to see covered? I’m keen to 
update this book with new chapters but I have no idea what people are looking 
for.

Om om
A
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
"Sometimes 3 times, because have to projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux and 
that several times a month."

meant to be

Sometimes 3 times, because i have two  projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux 
several times a month and the tasks has to be done for each standalone and 
platform.



-
Matthias Rebbe
Life Is Too Short For Boring Code

> Am 24.03.2021 um 10:45 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Sometimes 3 times, because have to projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux and 
> that several times a month.

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-24 Thread matthias rebbe via use-livecode
Jacque,

> Am 24.03.2021 um 03:32 schrieb J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A 
> couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools 
> and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book.
> 
> I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck.


> So the next question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you 
> could have done it faster the manual way?
> 
That's a question, that one has to answer for oneself. I for example created a 
script which does some tasks with the created standalones after their creation. 
It took some time to get the script working the way i want it to. Before that 
script i had to do these tasks manually for each created standalone. Sometimes 
3 times, because have to projects i create for Win/Mac/Linux and that several 
times a month.
So even if it takes not much time after standalone creation, it takes very much 
time in a month or a year. So the time it took to create the script was much 
less than i have to spent to manually do the tasks in future.



> I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't 
> work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole 
> project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut.
If you need some help, contact me privately. I am sure we get it working 
quickly. ;) 


Matthias
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On March 23, 2021 7:08:59 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I finished reading Andre’s book last night. Always happy to read his musings 
>> about Livecode development!
>> --
>> Scott Morrow
>> 
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
>> booth1-360-734-4701
>> --
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
 I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I 
 learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There 
 are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way.
>>> 
>>> I grabbed the book as well.
>>> I always learn things from Andre.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mark Wieder
>>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-23 Thread scott--- via use-livecode
Jacque,

I just followed a lesson to accomplish the same thing. Were you using LibURL or 
tsNet? I was successful using tsNet but not yet when trying to do it with 
LibURL. I was hoping to have both methods available so that the stack would 
also work with the community version when I shared it…

At the end of Andre’s book I followed a link to his website and ended up 
wanting to purchase one of the drip coffee cones he talked about… but not the 
exploding tea infuser!
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--


> On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:32 PM, J. Landman Gay via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. A 
> couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own tools 
> and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book.
> 
> I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. So the next 
> question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have done 
> it faster the manual way?
> 
> I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted didn't 
> work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a whole 
> project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut.
> --
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> On March 23, 2021 7:08:59 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
>> I finished reading Andre’s book last night. Always happy to read his musings 
>> about Livecode development!
>> --
>> Scott Morrow
>> 
>> Elementary Software
>> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
>> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
>> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
>> booth1-360-734-4701
>> --
>> 
>>> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
 I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I 
 learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There 
 are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way.
>>> 
>>> I grabbed the book as well.
>>> I always learn things from Andre.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mark Wieder
>>> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-livecode mailing list
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>>> subscription preferences:
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-23 Thread J. Landman Gay via use-livecode
I read it today too and it was inspiring, which was the whole point really. 
A couple of the footnotes made me laugh. I already make a lot of my own 
tools and plugins but I did get some ideas from the book.


I immediately set about updating one of my tools and got stuck. So the next 
question is: how long should you spend making a tool when you could have 
done it faster the manual way?


I got stuck trying to FTPs a file to my server. The lesson I consulted 
didn't work, and I stopped because figuring out why would have become a 
whole project. So I'm back to dragging the file to a Fetch shortcut.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
On March 23, 2021 7:08:59 PM scott--- via use-livecode 
 wrote:


I finished reading Andre’s book last night. Always happy to read his 
musings about Livecode development!

--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--

On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
 wrote:


On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I 
learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There 
are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way.


I grabbed the book as well.
I always learn things from Andre.

--
Mark Wieder
ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-23 Thread scott--- via use-livecode
I finished reading Andre’s book last night. Always happy to read his musings 
about Livecode development!
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--

> On Mar 23, 2021, at 10:09 AM, Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:
>> I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I 
>> learned something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There 
>> are always gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way.
> 
> I grabbed the book as well.
> I always learn things from Andre.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-23 Thread Mark Wieder via use-livecode

On 3/23/21 9:59 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote:

I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned 
something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always 
gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way.


I grabbed the book as well.
I always learn things from Andre.

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-23 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
I popped for the book. I already operate somewhat on this level but I learned 
something as a teenager when teaching myself to play guitar: There are always 
gaps in knowledge when a person learns that way.

Bob S


On Mar 23, 2021, at 7:57 AM, Andre Garzia via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hey Panos,

Thanks for including the message about my new book in the newsletter.
Thanks a ton :-)

Best
A

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Re: [ANN] This Week in LiveCode 259

2021-03-23 Thread Andre Garzia via use-livecode
Hey Panos,

Thanks for including the message about my new book in the newsletter.
Thanks a ton :-)

Best
A

On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 at 20:30, panagiotis merakos via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Read about new developments in LiveCode open source and the open source
> community in today's edition of the "This Week in LiveCode" newsletter!
>
> Read issue #259 here: http://bit.ly/3tY74Qj
>
> This is a weekly newsletter about LiveCode, focussing on what's been
> going on in and around the open source project. New issues will be
> released weekly on Mondays. We have a dedicated mailing list that will
> deliver each issue directly to your e-mail, so you don't miss any!
>
> If you have anything you'd like mentioned (a project, a discussion
> somewhere, an upcoming event) then please get in touch.
>
>
>
> --
> Panagiotis Merakos 
> LiveCode Software Developer
>
> Everyone Can Create Apps 
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-- 
https://www.andregarzia.com 
Want to support me? Buy me a coffee at https://ko-fi.com/andregarzia
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