Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
Hi Phil Your decision should be to build the training materials for IE, but make your client understand there will be reduced performance using IE and you have no way to adjust this performance. Actually there is a app named Hand Brake that will allow large video files to be optimized and reduced in size. It even improves the visual quality for the compressed MP4 files. If you want to contact me offline I can fill in much more about interactive training and related products. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclem...@gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on ooVoo at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 Cloud Hosting Registration Web Site: https://my.oditech.com/cart.php?a=addpid=41 On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: On 10/8/13 8:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 9:37 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I see you've been there, Jacque. Well, I was asked to go there. When I found out how it worked, I didn't. :) I do not envy you. Me neither. ;-) Believe it or not, I was an IT guy for about 15 years and even worked in a state agency for a couple of years. Then I saw the light... of a Mac Plus screen and the new world of HyperCard. It ruined me! Phil Phil On 10/8/13 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Phil Davis __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
Hi Phil, I don't deliver web training but I do have some experience with getting videos to work across a lot of browsers. The only way of delivering videos to old browsers and maintaining your sanity is Flash. Even then, Adobe dropped support for IE6 last year, so the user has to have an old version already installed and if they've got a dud there's not a lot you can do to upgrade it. You'd definitely need to check if they really are using IE6 and if the browsers haven't been locked down to prevent plugin installs. YouTube isn't a magic solution either unfortunately - they dropped support for IE6 back in 2010 and IE7 in 2012. Google have actually stopped supporting IE8 in some of their apps (although not YouTube). I was going to suggest Brightcove instead because they serve video for a lot of dinosaur corporate environments but I checked and they ended IE6 7 support early this year: http://support.brightcove.com/en/video-cloud/docs/customer-communication-about-end-life-ie6-and-ie7 Sadly the reason government clients are interested in web-based solutions in the first place is the same reason it's nearly impossible to guarantee a consistent experience - locked down and inflexible IT policy. I don't think you really can do much better than mediaelement.js as a general purpose solution. If you can find out from the IT folks a specific minimum Flash version, for example, that's installed on all PCs then you might have a chance to do better. If they really are still using IE6 without the chance to upgrade then I fear you have no chance - even Microsoft is trying to kill IE6: http://www.ie6countdown.com/ Probably not the advice you were looking for but I hope it helps avoid too much searching for a magic bullet. Mark From: Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net To: How to use LiveCode use-livecode@lists.runrev.com; LiveCode Developer List livecode-...@lists.runrev.com Sent: Tuesday, 8 October 2013, 21:44 Subject: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it? Hi Friends, If your clients or company deliver web training that includes videos, I would greatly appreciate any insight you can share from your experience. My largest client delivers web training to his customers. His entire content development / deployment / management system is built with Livecode, and one app uses FFMPEG to render desktop movies (mostly QT) for the web (mp4, ogv, webm). That app then uploads content to an on-rev server. The server has code that serves the content and collects the training results. (To be clear, the training content is a set of web pages containing text, video, images and sometimes audio. It's interactive. We don't upload a single monolithic 30-minute training video, but rather a training title may have any number of smaller videos that are available on various pages in the training.) My client now has a new opportunity to enter US state and fed government agencies in a big way. Problem is, they often use IE6/7/8 and are not open to change. As you may know, these are THE most problematic browsers in existence. We have found it extremely difficult to make all movies work all the time in all (IE) browsers. (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, later IE browsers are not a problem.) We're very concerned that we'll blow this opportunity if we can't deliver a rock-solid web training experience, specifically the video part. Do your clients or company have a great way of delivering web training that includes videos that always work every time, even in old IEs? If so, how do you do it? (Maybe your JS/CSS/HTML is better than ours.) We use John Dyer's mediaelement.js http://mediaelementjs.com/ as the core of our web video playback. We're considering ditching our in-house movie rendering process and using a media delivery service (like YouTube) for videos. Then the training movies would be uploaded to that service, and movies would be served from their server. We would use their embedded links and THEY would handle browser compatibility. At least that's how we're thinking about it. What am I missing? Have you ever done this? What has your experience been? I'm stretching the limits of approved list subject matter with this, but here I am anyway. As you can imagine, there is a LOT resting on the way we go forward in this. Thanks so much for your time and feedback. Feel free to contact me off-list as well. -- Phil Davis p...@pdslabs.net 503-307-4363 mobile ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
Phil Davis wrote: Problem is, they often use IE6/7/8 and are not open to change. Any sanctioned use of IE6 in any organization is a good argument for workplace drug testing, 'cause they're high as a kite if they think that's a good idea. As a government agency they're not only wasting our money, but putting our publicly-funded systems at unnecessary risk. Microsoft themselves have spent millions of dollars trying to convince people to move away from IE6 - they've even made a web site to explain why it's necessary: http://www.ie6countdown.com/educate-others.aspx When a browser's own maker tells you to stop using it, it's time to board the cluetrain. 143,000 hits for ie6 security vulnerabilities: https://www.google.com/search?q=ie6%20security%20vulnerabilities -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
Thanks Vaughn. I've used HB in the past for personal needs and it's a great product. Currently we use FFMPEG for converting MOVs etc to web formats and it works well, plus we can run it invisibly from shell() in LC, so it gives the appearance that our app is doing the conversion. Thanks - Phil On 10/9/13 7:13 AM, Vaughn Clement wrote: Hi Phil Your decision should be to build the training materials for IE, but make your client understand there will be reduced performance using IE and you have no way to adjust this performance. Actually there is a app named Hand Brake that will allow large video files to be optimized and reduced in size. It even improves the visual quality for the compressed MP4 files. If you want to contact me offline I can fill in much more about interactive training and related products. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclem...@gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on ooVoo at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 Cloud Hosting Registration Web Site: https://my.oditech.com/cart.php?a=addpid=41 On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: On 10/8/13 8:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 9:37 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I see you've been there, Jacque. Well, I was asked to go there. When I found out how it worked, I didn't. :) I do not envy you. Me neither. ;-) Believe it or not, I was an IT guy for about 15 years and even worked in a state agency for a couple of years. Then I saw the light... of a Mac Plus screen and the new world of HyperCard. It ruined me! Phil Phil On 10/8/13 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Phil Davis __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
Yes, agreed. And in my zeal for finding a solution I overstated my case. IE8 is the earliest one my client claims to support. (Thankfully!) Phil On 10/9/13 12:47 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: Phil Davis wrote: Problem is, they often use IE6/7/8 and are not open to change. Any sanctioned use of IE6 in any organization is a good argument for workplace drug testing, 'cause they're high as a kite if they think that's a good idea. As a government agency they're not only wasting our money, but putting our publicly-funded systems at unnecessary risk. Microsoft themselves have spent millions of dollars trying to convince people to move away from IE6 - they've even made a web site to explain why it's necessary: http://www.ie6countdown.com/educate-others.aspx When a browser's own maker tells you to stop using it, it's time to board the cluetrain. 143,000 hits for ie6 security vulnerabilities: https://www.google.com/search?q=ie6%20security%20vulnerabilities -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
Hi Richard My daughter is in the Air Force and she tells me that due to security concerns the military mandates many restrictions on military provided computers. That being said its stupid to mandate a Microsoft browser that has a long history of being Swiss cheese on security. But again if you want to do business with the military and they mandate IE then that is what you must use! So save yourself some time and do a bid no bid decision. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclem...@gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on ooVoo at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 Cloud Hosting Registration Web Site: https://my.oditech.com/cart.php?a=addpid=41 On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: Thanks Vaughn. I've used HB in the past for personal needs and it's a great product. Currently we use FFMPEG for converting MOVs etc to web formats and it works well, plus we can run it invisibly from shell() in LC, so it gives the appearance that our app is doing the conversion. Thanks - Phil On 10/9/13 7:13 AM, Vaughn Clement wrote: Hi Phil Your decision should be to build the training materials for IE, but make your client understand there will be reduced performance using IE and you have no way to adjust this performance. Actually there is a app named Hand Brake that will allow large video files to be optimized and reduced in size. It even improves the visual quality for the compressed MP4 files. If you want to contact me offline I can fill in much more about interactive training and related products. Thank you Vaughn Clement Apps by Vaughn Clement (Support) *http://www.**appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/**home-page/*http://www.appsbyvaughnclement.com/tools/home-page/* Skype: vaughn.clement https://secure.join.me/**appsbyvclementhttps://secure.join.me/appsbyvclement FaceTime: vclem...@gmail.com LogMeIn also avaialble Call on ooVoo at address: vaughnclement or 9282549062 Ph. 928-254-9062 Cloud Hosting Registration Web Site: https://my.oditech.com/cart.**php?a=addpid=41https://my.oditech.com/cart.php?a=addpid=41 On Tue, Oct 8, 2013 at 8:34 PM, Phil Davis rev...@pdslabs.net wrote: On 10/8/13 8:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 9:37 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I see you've been there, Jacque. Well, I was asked to go there. When I found out how it worked, I didn't. :) I do not envy you. Me neither. ;-) Believe it or not, I was an IT guy for about 15 years and even worked in a state agency for a couple of years. Then I saw the light... of a Mac Plus screen and the new world of HyperCard. It ruined me! Phil Phil On 10/8/13 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecode **http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis __**_ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/**mailman/listinfo/use-livecodehttp://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
On Oct 8, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I would greatly appreciate any insight you can share from your experience. Phil, I'll let the wiser people on this list comment on the technical aspects of your question. My experience is that it is better to make a good product for a smaller market rather than a marginal product for a larger market. If your product is good, word will spread. And your market will grow. If your product is compromised, for whatever reason (even if it is not directly related to your product - like the browser on which it is used), that word will also spread. And you will be fighting that reputation with every new sale you attempt. *** A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? Paul Looney ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
On 10/8/13 4:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: On Oct 8, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I would greatly appreciate any insight you can share from your experience. Phil, I'll let the wiser people on this list comment on the technical aspects of your question. My experience is that it is better to make a good product for a smaller market rather than a marginal product for a larger market. If your product is good, word will spread. And your market will grow. If your product is compromised, for whatever reason (even if it is not directly related to your product - like the browser on which it is used), that word will also spread. And you will be fighting that reputation with every new sale you attempt. Well said. *** A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? Uhh, Paul... it's the government. ;-) Their computer and internet experience tends to be a direct outcome of decisions by their IT people. For example, the computers in some (many?) agencies run virtualized systems, and don't allow anything to be installed on a computer by its user. Hence web delivery of training in my case. Paul Looney ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
I see you've been there, Jacque. Phil On 10/8/13 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
On 10/8/13 9:37 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I see you've been there, Jacque. Well, I was asked to go there. When I found out how it worked, I didn't. :) I do not envy you. Phil On 10/8/13 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: [OT] web training video delivery - how do YOU do it?
On 10/8/13 8:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 9:37 PM, Phil Davis wrote: I see you've been there, Jacque. Well, I was asked to go there. When I found out how it worked, I didn't. :) I do not envy you. Me neither. ;-) Believe it or not, I was an IT guy for about 15 years and even worked in a state agency for a couple of years. Then I saw the light... of a Mac Plus screen and the new world of HyperCard. It ruined me! Phil Phil On 10/8/13 7:10 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote: On 10/8/13 6:57 PM, Paul Looney wrote: A related question: if your potential buyers will not invest in a contemporary browser (which offers them many benefits for a minimal cost), why do you believe they will spend their money on your training system? It's for a government contract. The government may be willing to purchase a product but isn't willing to approve a newer OS, so the victi-- er, the users, are stuck with old browsers. So basically to win the contract the software has to support everything or lose out. -- Phil Davis ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
