Re: BN Guides

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

15(?) years ago I wrote an app that bounced a bunch of balls across the screen. 
Each was a shaped-stack. It has no trouble being pretty smooth even with twenty 
or so stacks, as I recall. It would be more than enough for guides, especially 
with the 100x hardware we have today. 

Positioning a stack is as simple as positioning a control, but for any 
translations to/from global coordinates. 

gc

> On Aug 30, 2022, at 10:44 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've fantasized about being able to paint directly to the window buffer 
> without using an object, but having done that in C back in the day I enjoy 
> the conveniences scripted objects bring.
> 
> Your stack suggestion is intriguing, but how does it work in practice?
> 
> I find the systemic overhead of dynamically reinstantiating windows to fit a 
> changing shape makes things a bit less smooth than I'd prefer.
> 
> Or are you suggesting a separate stack for each guide line?  That would keep 
> the performance up, but seems tedious to write.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geoff Canyon wrote:
>> He's also throwing controls into the stack to show guides for the
>> alignment, and then disposing of those. So maybe in for a penny?
>> If I were doing something like this I think I'd try:
>> 1. A frontscript, as you say, or just setting up to receive IDE messages --
>> pretty sure there's an objectMoved IDE message or something like it.
>> 2. Using stacks with the shape set as guides.
>> But maybe my idea is out of date or impractical in some way. I experimented
>> with some sort of auto-alignment code a long time ago. I have no memory of
>> how far I got with it.
>> gc
>>> On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
>>> use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:
>>> Geoff Canyon wrote:
>>> 
>>> > Okay, so it looks like BN Guides works by assigning behaviors to
>>> > controls and temporarily adding controls to your stack as you drag
>>> > things. I think this is meant to be transient as you drag controls.
>>> 
>>> Instinctively I'd be inclined to try a frontscript before something as
>>> intrusive as altering an object's behavior property for something this
>>> transient.
>>> 
>>> But Bernd does good work, so I'm curious: why this approach and not a
>>> frontScript?
>>> 
>>> --
>>>  Richard Gaskin
>>>  Fourth World Systems
> 
> 
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Re: BN Guides

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

I've fantasized about being able to paint directly to the window buffer 
without using an object, but having done that in C back in the day I 
enjoy the conveniences scripted objects bring.


Your stack suggestion is intriguing, but how does it work in practice?

I find the systemic overhead of dynamically reinstantiating windows to 
fit a changing shape makes things a bit less smooth than I'd prefer.


Or are you suggesting a separate stack for each guide line?  That would 
keep the performance up, but seems tedious to write.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems




Geoff Canyon wrote:

He's also throwing controls into the stack to show guides for the
alignment, and then disposing of those. So maybe in for a penny?

If I were doing something like this I think I'd try:

1. A frontscript, as you say, or just setting up to receive IDE messages --
pretty sure there's an objectMoved IDE message or something like it.
2. Using stacks with the shape set as guides.

But maybe my idea is out of date or impractical in some way. I experimented
with some sort of auto-alignment code a long time ago. I have no memory of
how far I got with it.

gc

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode at lists.runrev.com> wrote:


Geoff Canyon wrote:

 > Okay, so it looks like BN Guides works by assigning behaviors to
 > controls and temporarily adding controls to your stack as you drag
 > things. I think this is meant to be transient as you drag controls.

Instinctively I'd be inclined to try a frontscript before something as
intrusive as altering an object's behavior property for something this
transient.

But Bernd does good work, so I'm curious: why this approach and not a
frontScript?

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems



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Re: BN Guides

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

He's also throwing controls into the stack to show guides for the
alignment, and then disposing of those. So maybe in for a penny?

If I were doing something like this I think I'd try:

1. A frontscript, as you say, or just setting up to receive IDE messages --
pretty sure there's an objectMoved IDE message or something like it.
2. Using stacks with the shape set as guides.

But maybe my idea is out of date or impractical in some way. I experimented
with some sort of auto-alignment code a long time ago. I have no memory of
how far I got with it.

gc

On Mon, Aug 29, 2022 at 1:52 PM Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Geoff Canyon wrote:
>
>  > Okay, so it looks like BN Guides works by assigning behaviors to
>  > controls and temporarily adding controls to your stack as you drag
>  > things. I think this is meant to be transient as you drag controls.
>
> Instinctively I'd be inclined to try a frontscript before something as
> intrusive as altering an object's behavior property for something this
> transient.
>
> But Bernd does good work, so I'm curious: why this approach and not a
> frontScript?
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>
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Re: BN Guides

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

> Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Mon, 29 Aug 2022 13:53:13 -0700
> so I'm curious: why this approach and not a frontScript?

I thought about why I used behaviors a little more.
What intrigued me was the idea that via a behavior a control was made aware of 
its neighbours. Be it a group or a control it knew where all the other objects 
were. Even dragged them along when needed.
And it worked semi autonomously with a little help from "the owner of this me".

I think that was my main fascination when using behaviors. It was a change of 
perspective from the central perspective to a decentralised perspective.


Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: BN Guides

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

> Richard Gaskin via use-livecode Mon, 29 Aug 2022 13:53:13 -0700
> 
> Geoff Canyon wrote:
> 
> > Okay, so it looks like BN Guides works by assigning behaviors to
> > controls and temporarily adding controls to your stack as you drag
> > things. I think this is meant to be transient as you drag controls.
> 
> Instinctively I'd be inclined to try a frontscript before something as 
> intrusive as altering an object's behavior property for something this 
> transient.
> 
> But Bernd does good work, so I'm curious: why this approach and not a 
> frontScript?

Actually I was experimenting and wanted to use behaviors dynamically at the 
time when I wrote this. A proof of principle if you want. It worked 
surprisingly well.
That is why I sticked to behaviors. After fixing some edge cases it even 
removes the behaviors correctly...
At the time there were no guides available for LC.

But as of LC 10 Guidelines will be part of the IDE and that looks and works 
really well. (LC uses a backScript)

Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: BN Guides

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Geoff Canyon wrote:

> Okay, so it looks like BN Guides works by assigning behaviors to
> controls and temporarily adding controls to your stack as you drag
> things. I think this is meant to be transient as you drag controls.

Instinctively I'd be inclined to try a frontscript before something as 
intrusive as altering an object's behavior property for something this 
transient.


But Bernd does good work, so I'm curious: why this approach and not a 
frontScript?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems

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Re: BN Guides

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Okay, so it looks like BN Guides works by assigning behaviors to controls
and temporarily adding controls to your stack as you drag things. I think
this is meant to be transient as you drag controls. Navigator out of the
box assumes that behaviors are what you're interested in when you
double-click to edit a script, so if BN Guides has assigned a behavior, it
opens the script BN Guides assigns as the behavior.

If I'm right and the assignment of behaviors is supposed to be the case
only while you're dragging, then simply deselecting the dragged controls
should correct this.

If there's an issue with BN Guides, or you want to be *sure* to open the
control's script, and not a behavior, you can:

1. In Navigator Preferences, you can choose what to do on double-click --
and double-click with many modifier keys. If all of your scripts are in the
actual controls, then select "Edit Script" for "Double-click" instead of
the default "
2. Right-click a command-bar and select "Edit Script" as the action for
that command bar, and then click it to edit the control's script.

At some point I considered updating the script menu to display all the
controls in the behavior chain. Anyone feel free to let me know if that's a
necessary thing.

gc

On Sun, Aug 28, 2022 at 12:06 PM matthias rebbe via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Geoff,
>
> you can find the most current version here
>
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31920 <
> https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31920>
>
>
> Regards,
> Matthias
>
>
> > Am 28.08.2022 um 19:38 schrieb Geoff Canyon via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >:
> >
> > Where are the BN guides? I'd be curious to see how this is happening. As
> I
> > recall, Navigator is designed to dive through whatever behaviors are set
> > regardless of how deep the rabbit hole goes to find the actual behavior,
> > but I haven't looked at that part of the code in years.
> >
> > gc
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 8:26 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >> Who wrote BN Guides? Very cool, but there is a conflict with Navigator.
> >> When I double-click an object in Navigator to open it's script, I get t
> he
> >> BNGuides script instead.
> >>
> >> Bob S
> >>
> >>
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Re: BN Guides

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Geoff,

you can find the most current version here

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31920 



Regards,
Matthias


> Am 28.08.2022 um 19:38 schrieb Geoff Canyon via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>>:
> 
> Where are the BN guides? I'd be curious to see how this is happening. As I
> recall, Navigator is designed to dive through whatever behaviors are set
> regardless of how deep the rabbit hole goes to find the actual behavior,
> but I haven't looked at that part of the code in years.
> 
> gc
> 
> On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 8:26 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > wrote:
> 
>> Who wrote BN Guides? Very cool, but there is a conflict with Navigator.
>> When I double-click an object in Navigator to open it's script, I get t he
>> BNGuides script instead.
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
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Re: BN Guides

[Geoff Canyon via use-livecode]

Where are the BN guides? I'd be curious to see how this is happening. As I
recall, Navigator is designed to dive through whatever behaviors are set
regardless of how deep the rabbit hole goes to find the actual behavior,
but I haven't looked at that part of the code in years.

gc

On Thu, Aug 25, 2022 at 8:26 AM Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Who wrote BN Guides? Very cool, but there is a conflict with Navigator.
> When I double-click an object in Navigator to open it's script, I get t he
> BNGuides script instead.
>
> Bob S
>
>
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Re: BN Guides

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Works great. Thanks.

Bob S


On Aug 26, 2022, at 13:25 , Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hi Bob,

There is an alternative for guide right now

https://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/1002/DevGuides-Plugin-Installer

and 10.0.0 DP4 has guides built-in. They look and work really well.

I will not develop bnGuides further since starting LC 10 they will be part of 
the IDE.
I liked the idea to push the concept of behaviors for guides. But maybe a bit 
too far.

Nevertheless the version of bnGuides Matthias linked to  in the Forum is one 
version step ahead of the one in Livecodeshare/Sample Stacks.

Kind regards
Bernd

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Re: BN Guides

[Niggemann, Bernd via use-livecode]

Hi Bob,

There is an alternative for guide right now

https://livecodeshare.runrev.com/stack/1002/DevGuides-Plugin-Installer

and 10.0.0 DP4 has guides built-in. They look and work really well.

I will not develop bnGuides further since starting LC 10 they will be part of 
the IDE.
I liked the idea to push the concept of behaviors for guides. But maybe a bit 
too far.

Nevertheless the version of bnGuides Matthias linked to  in the Forum is one 
version step ahead of the one in Livecodeshare/Sample Stacks.

Kind regards
Bernd
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Re: BN Guides

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

Bob,

Just email Heather- she can do everything !

Probably the support @ livecode.com address would be more correct than her 
directly.

Alex

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Aug 2022, at 17:18, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> I found the link to the Board Administrator. The board administrator link 
> has been disabled. LOL!
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
> On Aug 25, 2022, at 09:15 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:
> 
> I am then advised to contact the administrator, but there is no link I can 
> find on the forums page for an administrator.
> 
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Re: BN Guides

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

I found the link to the Board Administrator. The board administrator link has 
been disabled. LOL!

Bob S


On Aug 25, 2022, at 09:15 , Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

I am then advised to contact the administrator, but there is no link I can find 
on the forums page for an administrator.

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Re: BN Guides

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Unfortunately I am unable to login to the forums (again) as the saved password 
I have for it no longer works. Also, if I ask for the activation link to be 
resent, both emails I would have used along with the only user name I use for 
everything (slylabs13), results in Account Not Found. Submitting a password 
reset on either of the two emails never sends a password reset email. Trying to 
register from scratch with slylabs13 as the user name generates an error that 
the user name is already in use!

I am then advised to contact the administrator, but there is no link I can find 
on the forums page for an administrator.

So far, I am unusually calm. Normally I'd be cursing and swearing by now. :-)

Bob S


On Aug 25, 2022, at 08:45 , matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Forgot to place the link to the forum where he announced it.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31920

Matthias

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Re: BN Guides

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Forgot to place the link to the forum where he announced it.

https://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31920

Matthias

> Am 25.08.2022 um 17:33 schrieb matthias rebbe via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Bernd Niggemann wrote it.
> 
>> Am 25.08.2022 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
>> :
>> 
>> Who wrote BN Guides? Very cool, but there is a conflict with Navigator. When 
>> I double-click an object in Navigator to open it's script, I get t he 
>> BNGuides script instead. 
>> 
>> Bob S
>> 
>> 
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Re: BN Guides

[matthias rebbe via use-livecode]

Bernd Niggemann wrote it.

> Am 25.08.2022 um 17:25 schrieb Bob Sneidar via use-livecode 
> :
> 
> Who wrote BN Guides? Very cool, but there is a conflict with Navigator. When 
> I double-click an object in Navigator to open it's script, I get t he 
> BNGuides script instead. 
> 
> Bob S
> 
> 
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