Re: Design Question

2020-11-20 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Scott:
You are absolutely correct. I have noticed, though, that busy profs prefer to 
use apps they are already familiar with and adding an app to look at student 
work for a single assignment would most likely put them off. So, I’m wanting to 
get student work in a format that can be either viewed with common apps (e.g. 
word, excel, etc) but possibly with a custom livecode app as an option.

I’m still working to finish the student part of the app itself, but this design 
rumination is very helpful.
Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 4:42 PM, scott--- via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> For getting it FROM the student, why not just use a livecode stack file. It 
> could contain everything and be highly editable. For returning it TO the 
> student you could use a pdf. 
> --
> Scott Morrow
> 
> Elementary Software
> (Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
> web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
> email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
> booth1-360-734-4701
> --
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2020, at 11:18 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Richard,
>> I kinda like the pdf idea. Seems it would give me a way to encapsulate and 
>> format the text and images and perhaps a fairly defined pdf format would 
>> make it straightforward to edit it using Livecode as well.
>> Best,
>> Bill
>> 
>> William A. Prothero
>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>> 
>>> On Nov 17, 2020, at 10:10 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> William Prothero wrote:
>>> 
 It seems the effort to make this app work with learning management
 systems would be huge, something I’m definitely not up for.
>>> 
>>> It may not be.  I've made standards-compliant courseware in the past (a 
>>> while ago; the data format was XML ), and it wasn't as bad as I'd 
>>> thought.  With so much work on the modern standards I'd imagine they're far 
>>> better documented and based on more common conventions than they were in 
>>> yesteryear.
>>> 
>>> But maybe the key question is: are your customers asking for LMS 
>>> interoperability specifically?
>>> 
>>> In some segments it can make the difference between being a contender and 
>>> not being considered at all.
>>> 
>>> But I've seen many other segments that seem to have abandoned hope of a 
>>> standards-driven world of interoperable courseware, quite happy to kludge 
>>> together whatever they need to eventually arrive at a means of tracking 
>>> assessment.
>>> 
>>> If no one's asking you for LMS compatibility, there would seem to need to 
>>> bother.
>>> 
>>> If PDF suffices, it's certainly easy to do in LC.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World Systems
>>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>>> 
>>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
> 
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Re: Design Question

2020-11-19 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Jim:
What I’m thinking is that my app would allow students to write their text and 
create the images. I would export the “composition” in pdf format. That would 
be imported into the LMS or sent to the teacher external to my app. The teacher 
could then comment on the writing either in the LMS or an email to the student. 
One thing I'm careful of is making it difficult for a student to copy work from 
the web, so I try program to forbid paste operations. All of the figures also 
have the student’s login name on them.

I thank everyone who’s commented on this and in the process I’ve gotten some 
clarity on the best path forward.
Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 12:45 PM, Jim Lambert via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> The application's core is access to Earth data (that scientists used to 
>> develop the theory of plate tectonics) and capturing and annotating plots 
>> that can be incorporated into student writing.
> 
> If the 'student writing' is created in some other program then wouldn't it be 
> sufficient to allow a student to copy text, data and plots from your program 
> and paste them into whatever writing program the student uses?
> 
> If the 'student writing' is created in your program could their work be 
> exported as PDF that is then imported into the 'learning management system" 
> and/or shared with the teacher?
> 
> Jim Lambert
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Re: Design Question

2020-11-18 Thread Bob Sneidar via use-livecode
Does your stack auto-save anything at any time? If power fails during a save 
operation, there will be another stack file of the same name preceded by a 
tilde (~). Deleting the tilde will restore the prior version of the stack file.

Sometimes a power outage can damage the partition of the HDD. I would have UPS 
backups on all the systems you deem critical, and check these UPS systems every 
three months or replace them outright every three years (typical life 
expectancy of a lead acid battery).

Bob S


On Nov 18, 2020, at 2:20 AM, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
mailto:use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>> wrote:

Hi,

I had 70 PS POS systems in the field and I saved the  list of items and
other info  after each addition it worked 99.9% of the time. But when it
failed (4 or 5  times a year) usually the same
customer (same hardware same windows 7 )I had to log in and copy a blank
livecode stack. In the end I had to save the info in the Sqlite database -
No problems since.

The stackfile never seemed to damage because of a power failure/outage or
anything - but had a greater chance if that was the case. The funny thing
was if you did switch the power off  off
without doing a proper shutdown there was no damage 99.9% of the time.
Never did get to the bottom of it.

Regards Lagi

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Re: Design Question

2020-11-18 Thread Lagi Pittas via use-livecode
Hi,

I had 70 PS POS systems in the field and I saved the  list of items and
other info  after each addition it worked 99.9% of the time. But when it
failed (4 or 5  times a year) usually the same
customer (same hardware same windows 7 )I had to log in and copy a blank
livecode stack. In the end I had to save the info in the Sqlite database -
No problems since.

The stackfile never seemed to damage because of a power failure/outage or
anything - but had a greater chance if that was the case. The funny thing
was if you did switch the power off  off
without doing a proper shutdown there was no damage 99.9% of the time.
Never did get to the bottom of it.

Regards Lagi

On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 at 00:50, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Scott Morrow wrote:
>
>  > For getting it FROM the student, why not just use a livecode stack
>  > file. It could contain everything and be highly editable.
>
> ^ this
>
> LiveCode stack files are an underrated document format.
>
>
> --
>   Richard Gaskin
>   Fourth World Systems
>   Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>   
>   ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
>
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-- 
KIndest Regards Lagi
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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

Scott Morrow wrote:

> For getting it FROM the student, why not just use a livecode stack
> file. It could contain everything and be highly editable.

^ this

LiveCode stack files are an underrated document format.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread scott--- via use-livecode
For getting it FROM the student, why not just use a livecode stack file. It 
could contain everything and be highly editable. For returning it TO the 
student you could use a pdf. 
--
Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   https://elementarysoftware.com/
email sc...@elementarysoftware.com
booth1-360-734-4701
--

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 11:18 AM, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Richard,
> I kinda like the pdf idea. Seems it would give me a way to encapsulate and 
> format the text and images and perhaps a fairly defined pdf format would make 
> it straightforward to edit it using Livecode as well.
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2020, at 10:10 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> William Prothero wrote:
>> 
>>> It seems the effort to make this app work with learning management
>>> systems would be huge, something I’m definitely not up for.
>> 
>> It may not be.  I've made standards-compliant courseware in the past (a 
>> while ago; the data format was XML ), and it wasn't as bad as I'd 
>> thought.  With so much work on the modern standards I'd imagine they're far 
>> better documented and based on more common conventions than they were in 
>> yesteryear.
>> 
>> But maybe the key question is: are your customers asking for LMS 
>> interoperability specifically?
>> 
>> In some segments it can make the difference between being a contender and 
>> not being considered at all.
>> 
>> But I've seen many other segments that seem to have abandoned hope of a 
>> standards-driven world of interoperable courseware, quite happy to kludge 
>> together whatever they need to eventually arrive at a means of tracking 
>> assessment.
>> 
>> If no one's asking you for LMS compatibility, there would seem to need to 
>> bother.
>> 
>> If PDF suffices, it's certainly easy to do in LC.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World Systems
>> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
>> 
>> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com


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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread Jim Lambert via use-livecode


> The application's core is access to Earth data (that scientists used to 
> develop the theory of plate tectonics) and capturing and annotating plots 
> that can be incorporated into student writing.

If the 'student writing' is created in some other program then wouldn't it be 
sufficient to allow a student to copy text, data and plots from your program 
and paste them into whatever writing program the student uses?

If the 'student writing' is created in your program could their work be 
exported as PDF that is then imported into the 'learning management system" 
and/or shared with the teacher?

Jim Lambert
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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread William Prothero via use-livecode
Richard,
I kinda like the pdf idea. Seems it would give me a way to encapsulate and 
format the text and images and perhaps a fairly defined pdf format would make 
it straightforward to edit it using Livecode as well.
Best,
Bill

William A. Prothero
https://earthlearningsolutions.org

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 10:10 AM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> William Prothero wrote:
> 
> > It seems the effort to make this app work with learning management
> > systems would be huge, something I’m definitely not up for.
> 
> It may not be.  I've made standards-compliant courseware in the past (a while 
> ago; the data format was XML ), and it wasn't as bad as I'd thought.  With 
> so much work on the modern standards I'd imagine they're far better 
> documented and based on more common conventions than they were in yesteryear.
> 
> But maybe the key question is: are your customers asking for LMS 
> interoperability specifically?
> 
> In some segments it can make the difference between being a contender and not 
> being considered at all.
> 
> But I've seen many other segments that seem to have abandoned hope of a 
> standards-driven world of interoperable courseware, quite happy to kludge 
> together whatever they need to eventually arrive at a means of tracking 
> assessment.
> 
> If no one's asking you for LMS compatibility, there would seem to need to 
> bother.
> 
> If PDF suffices, it's certainly easy to do in LC.
> 
> -- 
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World Systems
> Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
> 
> ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread Richard Gaskin via use-livecode

William Prothero wrote:

> It seems the effort to make this app work with learning management
> systems would be huge, something I’m definitely not up for.

It may not be.  I've made standards-compliant courseware in the past (a 
while ago; the data format was XML ), and it wasn't as bad as I'd 
thought.  With so much work on the modern standards I'd imagine they're 
far better documented and based on more common conventions than they 
were in yesteryear.


But maybe the key question is: are your customers asking for LMS 
interoperability specifically?


In some segments it can make the difference between being a contender 
and not being considered at all.


But I've seen many other segments that seem to have abandoned hope of a 
standards-driven world of interoperable courseware, quite happy to 
kludge together whatever they need to eventually arrive at a means of 
tracking assessment.


If no one's asking you for LMS compatibility, there would seem to need 
to bother.


If PDF suffices, it's certainly easy to do in LC.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread ELS Prothero via use-livecode
I’m re-sending this because I used the wrong email server.
Bill

William Prothero
http://es.earthednet.org

> On Nov 17, 2020, at 8:46 AM, William Prothero  wrote:
> 
> David and Graham,
> One approach that occurred to me is this.
> There are 2 components to the work that students would “hand in” to their 
> teacher. It would consist of simple text and images. So, would it be 
> practical to create a simple pdf as a single file that includes these 
> elements and send that to the teacher as an attachment? The teacher could 
> then either base grading on that pdf alone or use another small app that I 
> write (or other pdf editing software) to add comments and/or a grade to the 
> pdf and return it to the student.
> 
> I haven’t tried to create PDFs in Livecode, but from some of the postings, it 
> seems practical. I’m not sure about the deconstruction in a Livecode app, but 
> a quick google search shows a lot of apps for annotating PDFs.
> 
> Tnx for any comments or wisdom.
> 
> Best,
> Bill
> 
> William Prothero
> http://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
>> On Nov 17, 2020, at 2:15 AM, David V Glasgow  wrote:
>> 
>> Oooh!  For once I might make a contribution!
>> 
>> I had the same issue in a healthcare context.  These IT systems vary 
>> tremendously between services, are complex and often hard to connect with - 
>> either by design, or by lack of interest in supporting other software.
>> 
>> I found the best way to get a combo education and training/clinical app to 
>> be accepted was to create it with no dependencies (local or online), no 
>> attempt to connect with management systems, no writing of data anywhere, 
>> just the ability to copy and paste charts and data that nurses can 
>> incorporate into other reports.  Although clinical information systems are 
>> hostile to most actions, they have to allow pictures (like x rays and other 
>> scans) and spread sheet data to be pasted into the record.  Ironically, they 
>> almost all allow Word documents to be incorporated into the clinical record 
>> too.  Nurses don’t need to be shown how to do these things, because they 
>> wrestle with ugly, poorly designed clinical information systems on a daily 
>> basis.
>> 
>> In other words, you’re on the money, I think.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> David G
>> 
 On 16 Nov 2020, at 11:28 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode 
  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks,
>>> I’m refining an application I used to teach Plate Tectonics when I was a 
>>> working prof. The application’s core is access to Earth data (that 
>>> scientists used to develop the theory of plate tectonics) and capturing and 
>>> annotating plots that can be incorporated into student writing.
>>> 
>>> I am adding features that give the student (and teacher) more direction 
>>> about how to use the material. The final student product would be some kind 
>>> of short writeup with figures, that presents student results of their 
>>> exploration using the data in the application. The major goal is to have 
>>> students learn about the process of doing science and writing about their 
>>> results.
>>> 
>>> However, I am thinking hard about how to proceed. It seems the effort to 
>>> make this app work with learning management systems would be huge, 
>>> something I’m definitely not up for. Yet, an assignment with text and 
>>> figures needs to be packaged in some way that is easy for students to use, 
>>> but can be transmitted to the teacher (who will make comments, assign a 
>>> grade, and return it to the student) in some efficient way. What I’m 
>>> thinking, at the simplest level, is to export the text and figures of the 
>>> student’s work and let the student create a final product using word, 
>>> Pages, google classroom, or some other application I haven’t thought about  
>>> but which they would normally have access to.
>>> 
>>> I’d love to have any of you teachers’ ideas and/or experience with great 
>>> ways to proceed.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Bill
>>> 
>>> William A. Prothero
>>> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 


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Re: Design Question

2020-11-17 Thread David V Glasgow via use-livecode
Oooh!  For once I might make a contribution!

I had the same issue in a healthcare context.  These IT systems vary 
tremendously between services, are complex and often hard to connect with - 
either by design, or by lack of interest in supporting other software.

I found the best way to get a combo education and training/clinical app to be 
accepted was to create it with no dependencies (local or online), no attempt to 
connect with management systems, no writing of data anywhere, just the ability 
to copy and paste charts and data that nurses can incorporate into other 
reports.  Although clinical information systems are hostile to most actions, 
they have to allow pictures (like x rays and other scans) and spread sheet data 
to be pasted into the record.  Ironically, they almost all allow Word documents 
to be incorporated into the clinical record too.  Nurses don’t need to be shown 
how to do these things, because they wrestle with ugly, poorly designed 
clinical information systems on a daily basis.

In other words, you’re on the money, I think.

Cheers,

David G

> On 16 Nov 2020, at 11:28 pm, William Prothero via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> I’m refining an application I used to teach Plate Tectonics when I was a 
> working prof. The application’s core is access to Earth data (that scientists 
> used to develop the theory of plate tectonics) and capturing and annotating 
> plots that can be incorporated into student writing.
> 
> I am adding features that give the student (and teacher) more direction about 
> how to use the material. The final student product would be some kind of 
> short writeup with figures, that presents student results of their 
> exploration using the data in the application. The major goal is to have 
> students learn about the process of doing science and writing about their 
> results.
> 
> However, I am thinking hard about how to proceed. It seems the effort to make 
> this app work with learning management systems would be huge, something I’m 
> definitely not up for. Yet, an assignment with text and figures needs to be 
> packaged in some way that is easy for students to use, but can be transmitted 
> to the teacher (who will make comments, assign a grade, and return it to the 
> student) in some efficient way. What I’m thinking, at the simplest level, is 
> to export the text and figures of the student’s work and let the student 
> create a final product using word, Pages, google classroom, or some other 
> application I haven’t thought about  but which they would normally have 
> access to.
> 
> I’d love to have any of you teachers’ ideas and/or experience with great ways 
> to proceed.
> 
> Thanks,
> Bill
> 
> William A. Prothero
> https://earthlearningsolutions.org
> 
> 
> 
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