Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

Last I checked you have to pay a licensing fee for every copy of an app you 
distribute, even if it is internal. At least for Filemaker itself. Not sure 
about filemaker for livecode, whatever that is. 

Bob S


> On Apr 15, 2017, at 16:48 , Mark Wieder via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> On 04/15/2017 03:39 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
> 
>> Here's a start:
>> https://filemaker.livecode.com/
>> 
> 
> Hmmm... I'd forgotten about that.
> Any idea what the licensing is like?
> 
> -- 
> Mark Wieder
> ahsoftw...@gmail.com
> 
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Mark Wieder wrote:

> On 04/15/2017 03:39 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:
>
>> Here's a start:
>> https://filemaker.livecode.com/
>>
>
> Hmmm... I'd forgotten about that.
> Any idea what the licensing is like?

Nada.  The pricing is shown (seems to be per # users, but not sure if 
that's accounts or concurrent), but I couldn't turn up the terms.


There might be something in these resources:
https://filemaker.livecode.com/support/

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Mark Wieder via use-livecode]

On 04/15/2017 03:39 PM, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode wrote:


Here's a start:
https://filemaker.livecode.com/



Hmmm... I'd forgotten about that.
Any idea what the licensing is like?

--
 Mark Wieder
 ahsoftw...@gmail.com

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

jonathandlynch wrote:

> I feel that livecode needs a suite of adaptable commercial software,
> so that people become aware of LC through using that software, in
> much the same way people became aware of VBA through using MS Word.

Here's a start:
https://filemaker.livecode.com/

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Bob:
> As a result, we have no business talking about how much they
> should charge for licensing. I am up for renewal on the Indy
> license. I am not well to do. I am balking at the price right
> now. Still, I could use the non-comm version, but then I feel
> like I am not contributing, so I am torn betwixt the two.

To promote LiveCode to various people, I would also love to see a lower 
entry point on Indy or another closed source edition. Like you, I don't 
presume to know or wish to control how the business should be run or 
priced. But I've known and worked with enough people on smaller budgets 
to have no doubt that price point affects some of us, and people have 
very different situations and mindsets.


This has been discussed at great length before, the hobbyist and so on, 
and it's so true that for many people the free version does the job. 
Problem solved. For many others, having a business means their ducks are 
sufficiently in a row that $999 is a no-brainer price. Even better. And 
yes, it is an amazing price for all the technology and platforms included.


All true, and yet repeating these often enough can lead people to buy 
into the fallacy that this covers the entire range of interested 
LiveCode users. Unfortunately I happen to know that it doesn't. There 
are people who have their own reasons for wanting something more than 
free, but the current Indy price makes that a pretty big jump. Obviously 
wannabe iOS publishers on a shoestring is one group, although there are 
others I could name, including those with more proprietary ambition than 
cash in the short term.


It's not my place to judge or defend these people and their reasons, any 
more than LiveCode's decisions and their model. But I would still like 
to have those people onboard, so I would love to see anything to that 
end, such as an Indy special or perhaps another column in the price 
continuum of free, ___, 1K, 2K. Lagi's point about impulse buys was 
interesting too. So long as an edition reached those people I wouldn't 
really mind which method it would use.


In your own particular case, if the open source version sufficed, you 
could still voluntarily contribute a certain amount annually. But I 
would hate to see anyone leave the Indy edition, which is my own 
personal favorite!


No expectations of easy agreement, especially on this of all things. But 
there's value in planting a seed now and then and seeing what other 
people think too. The future will sort it all out. I've just burned 
through another budget rather quickly, my public communication time, so 
I'll duck back to work. I enjoyed the chat very much as always! Happy 
coding. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy
--
WordLib: Take charge of MS Word and OpenOffice documents
SpreadLib: "Excel-lent" spreadsheet import/export for LC
http://livecodeaddons.com/


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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Keith Martin via use-livecode]

On 14 Apr 2017, at 13:49, Lagi Pittas via use-livecode wrote:


The $500,000 limit on INDY is on an
honour system anyway - LC can't tell whether I made a million last 
week or

not.


An interesting point.

Personally, I prefer positive incentives for upgrading. Making someome 
think even for a second that they'll be 'penalised' for doing well and 
you lose your grip on their interest. This is a very jaundiced 
interpretation of that indy/business differentiation point, I know, but 
one has to put onesself into the shoes of potential customers who could 
easily get the wrong end of the stick.


k


---

Keith Martin
Senior Lecturer, LCC (University of the Arts London)
Technical Editor, MacUser magazine (1997-2015)
http://PanoramaPhotographer.com
http://thatkeith.com
+44 (0)7909541365

---
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

On 4/14/17 6:13 pm, Mike Bonner via use-livecode wrote:

I too am not well off, but in order to "help within my means" I am paying
for membership.  Its not much, but far better than 0.  The only thing I
want to find out now is where to get nightly builds from. (a perk of
membership, yet no info that I can locate on how to actually find them)


That would be nice.



On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:


On Apr 14, 2017, at 05:49 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
wrote:


The Differentiation of INDY with Business can stay should be SQLITE for
INDY or at least for any future Mobile only versions. The price hike
probably wouldn't make this sustainable) and BUSINESS allows say Oracle,


We have no frame of reference for what it takes to run the company in
terms of financing. Not very many of us have an idea of how many PAYING
developers are in their base either. As a result, we have no business
talking about how much they should charge for licensing. I am up for
renewal on the Indy license. I am not well to do. I am balking at the price
right now. Still, I could use the non-comm version, but then I feel like I
am not contributing, so I am torn betwixt the two.

I will probably re-up just because I would like to go to V9 in the future.
Lots of good things there.

Bob S
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Mike Bonner via use-livecode]

I too am not well off, but in order to "help within my means" I am paying
for membership.  Its not much, but far better than 0.  The only thing I
want to find out now is where to get nightly builds from. (a perk of
membership, yet no info that I can locate on how to actually find them)

On Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 9:02 AM, Bob Sneidar via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> On Apr 14, 2017, at 05:49 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode <
> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
> The Differentiation of INDY with Business can stay should be SQLITE for
> INDY or at least for any future Mobile only versions. The price hike
> probably wouldn't make this sustainable) and BUSINESS allows say Oracle,
> 
>
> We have no frame of reference for what it takes to run the company in
> terms of financing. Not very many of us have an idea of how many PAYING
> developers are in their base either. As a result, we have no business
> talking about how much they should charge for licensing. I am up for
> renewal on the Indy license. I am not well to do. I am balking at the price
> right now. Still, I could use the non-comm version, but then I feel like I
> am not contributing, so I am torn betwixt the two.
>
> I will probably re-up just because I would like to go to V9 in the future.
> Lots of good things there.
>
> Bob S
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Bob Sneidar via use-livecode]

On Apr 14, 2017, at 05:49 , Lagi Pittas via use-livecode 
> wrote:


The Differentiation of INDY with Business can stay should be SQLITE for
INDY or at least for any future Mobile only versions. The price hike
probably wouldn't make this sustainable) and BUSINESS allows say Oracle,


We have no frame of reference for what it takes to run the company in terms of 
financing. Not very many of us have an idea of how many PAYING developers are 
in their base either. As a result, we have no business talking about how much 
they should charge for licensing. I am up for renewal on the Indy license. I am 
not well to do. I am balking at the price right now. Still, I could use the 
non-comm version, but then I feel like I am not contributing, so I am torn 
betwixt the two.

I will probably re-up just because I would like to go to V9 in the future. Lots 
of good things there.

Bob S
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

+1

On 4/14/17 11:51 am, Kevin Miller via use-livecode wrote:

Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many other venues.
We just don¹t always agree or have time to respond on every point. As far
as the marketing goes, as with all these things we will test different
approaches over time.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 14/04/2017, 09:45, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via
use-livecode"  wrote:


My interest is primarily for the .com site, and I'm comfortable sharing
my opinion. Of course they have every right to their own decision too
and I have the deepest respect for that. In my experience LiveCode is a
company that does listen over time, so it's always interesting to have a
discussion, whatever the venue and final result, always in a friendly
spirit.



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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

HI

I'm presuming (presumptuous moi?) that my bit about the company not
listening elicited what I wanted - somebody from LC to pipe in - the fact
that was Kevin was a bonus.

So let me say here and now I LOVE LC and the more I use LC the more I like
it BUT.. I will be honest,  if I found the site today I wouldn't give it
any time at all - seriously!!

It was mentioned in a  FOXPRO forum and the OP was rounded on by one of the
Fox Gurus for 1 thing actually - that the INDY license put a limit on what
they could earn
(don't mention the fact that  it runs out yearly!).

Let me state what I stated on MANY occasions.


The Differentiation of INDY with Business can stay should be SQLITE for
INDY or at least for any future Mobile only versions. The price hike
probably wouldn't make this sustainable) and BUSINESS allows say Oracle,
SQL server databases and maybe  some of the other stuff that they have now
(although Andre  Garcia and many others would disagree). The main
Differentiation should be the support. The $500,000 limit on INDY is on an
honour system anyway - LC can't tell whether I made a million last week or
not. This is what I can't understand.I for one if I was on INDY (I'm on
business now but they made me an offer I couldn't refuse and am still only
using 6.7.11) and was earning not even close to $500,000 why wouldn't I
upgrade to the next level if only to help the Tool that is bringing in the
bread and butter.

Related to the above is  the fact that the entry level $100 hobbyist market
 has all but been  eviscerated  because you cannot use Community to create
IOS apps for the APP store is totally  illogical to me.

XOJO has the $100 ish single OS versions (that do not run out),  but you
don't get updates after a year. That to me is real world thinking. If I
have an APP on the APP store and it is moderately successful - at least
returns a few hundred dollars and XCODE is updated so that my version of LC
needs to be updated , why wouldn't I update it? If it isn't successful I
wouldn't have paid for it anyway.

The point being they are losing the impulse purchases of $100 here ,
hundreds dollars their - I have purchased B4A (all versions for the last 6
years) and have never written anything to sell but I have played with it
because $250 for 2 years including the MAC cloud compilation to me is a
steal - I have a MAC but I might want to compile on my PC. I have XOJO - I
only used it to write something that was problematic within LC and got them
to talk - again no-brainer cost. The most expensive development systems I
ever paid for was Clipper Summer 84 - £795 (ALPHA5 as well but that's
another story) when that was real money - It was not protected in any way
and I was given a copy on a couple of disks, but I bought it when a
programmer friend convinced me it wasn't the CR*P that DBASE was - because
it was the right thing to do. If I didn't have the money at the time. I
would have purchased after I had made some money with it - again you either
have that attitude or you don't. Some people will be so honourable that
they would't even think about using it without paying there and then - i'm
a little more pragmatic.

What I'm saying is give the $100 entry system for single platforms a try
again - the longer you leave it the more chance the XOJO's of this world
will catch up.

Make sure the yearly upgrade gives them a discount on the full price and
you have your "sort of lockin" that you are trying to do now - many
companies do it this way (XOJO and B4a are 2 I can mention ) - and I keep
upgrading.



There are more ideas/thoughts but I have work to finish off - no rest for
the really wicked.

Kindest Regards Lagi

As usual excuse any smelling Pistakes


On 14 April 2017 at 10:48, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> Kevin:
> > Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many
> > other venues.
>
> Wow, that post was the perfect confirmation of my thoughts - I knew for
> certain that LiveCode was listening as I said, that always has been the
> case in my experience, and I had a feeling you were too!
>
> I've been absolutely clear in making this an open suggestion and frank
> observation, not demanding a response or expecting any kind of agreement.
> But receiving a response is a nice bonus, thanks for speaking up so quickly.
>
> I'm in the same boat; unfortunately I often don't have time to speak up on
> these trends that come and go, but now and then I make time on one or two,
> and it's great to hear from fellow users and CEO alike. I place enough
> importance on downloads that this was one of those times, and whatever the
> outcome I'm glad I said my piece. :)
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry Kenworthy
>
> Custom Software Development
> LiveCode Training and Consulting
> http://livecodeconsulting.com/
>
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Kevin:
> Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many
> other venues.

Wow, that post was the perfect confirmation of my thoughts - I knew for 
certain that LiveCode was listening as I said, that always has been the 
case in my experience, and I had a feeling you were too!


I've been absolutely clear in making this an open suggestion and frank 
observation, not demanding a response or expecting any kind of 
agreement. But receiving a response is a nice bonus, thanks for speaking 
up so quickly.


I'm in the same boat; unfortunately I often don't have time to speak up 
on these trends that come and go, but now and then I make time on one or 
two, and it's great to hear from fellow users and CEO alike. I place 
enough importance on downloads that this was one of those times, and 
whatever the outcome I'm glad I said my piece. :)


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Jonathan Lynch via use-livecode]

I feel that livecode needs a suite of adaptable commercial software, so that 
people become aware of LC through using that software, in much the same way 
people became aware of VBA through using MS Word.

They need SOME way to get email addresses from prospective customers.

I do agree the direct download link should be more findable.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 14, 2017, at 4:51 AM, Kevin Miller via use-livecode 
>  wrote:
> 
> Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many other venues.
> We just don¹t always agree or have time to respond on every point. As far
> as the marketing goes, as with all these things we will test different
> approaches over time.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
> LiveCode: Everyone can create apps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 14/04/2017, 09:45, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via
> use-livecode"  use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:
> 
>> My interest is primarily for the .com site, and I'm comfortable sharing
>> my opinion. Of course they have every right to their own decision too
>> and I have the deepest respect for that. In my experience LiveCode is a
>> company that does listen over time, so it's always interesting to have a
>> discussion, whatever the venue and final result, always in a friendly
>> spirit.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Kevin Miller via use-livecode]

Of course we listen. We read what comes in here and on many other venues.
We just don¹t always agree or have time to respond on every point. As far
as the marketing goes, as with all these things we will test different
approaches over time.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/
LiveCode: Everyone can create apps




On 14/04/2017, 09:45, "use-livecode on behalf of Curry Kenworthy via
use-livecode"  wrote:

>My interest is primarily for the .com site, and I'm comfortable sharing
>my opinion. Of course they have every right to their own decision too
>and I have the deepest respect for that. In my experience LiveCode is a
>company that does listen over time, so it's always interesting to have a
>discussion, whatever the venue and final result, always in a friendly
>spirit.



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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Richard:
> How they handle email address harvesting at the .com site for
> the proprietary edition is, literally, their business.

My interest is primarily for the .com site, and I'm comfortable sharing 
my opinion. Of course they have every right to their own decision too 
and I have the deepest respect for that. In my experience LiveCode is a 
company that does listen over time, so it's always interesting to have a 
discussion, whatever the venue and final result, always in a friendly 
spirit. That's a nice distinction you have to make a direct contact only 
to the company about .com matters, but I didn't feel that way on this 
particular topic, plus I can learn in the process and see what a few 
other users think too!


While discussing this I should have added that I still LOVE the full 
downloads page at downloads.livecode.com and even made a video about it 
a while back. It could be an overwhelming page for non-geeks on their 
very first day, but it's just right for many initiated users, even when 
they are still fairly new to the LC world. Hope it will never go away. A 
dynamic link at the top could help people quickly access the most 
relevant version or two for their own platform, and there could be other 
tweaks but I like the concept pretty much as it is.


One more observation is that I do see other companies requiring a signup 
too, but interestingly enough the word "Download" is still sometimes 
prominent in their signup mechanism! It's a nice call to action and can 
be paired with other phrases to cover all the bases. Personally I like 
to see a download at the beginning, that's me, but I had to chuckle 
seeing how it's possible to have it both ways, with "Download" leading 
to a sign up. And of course it's very true, people are signing up with 
the goal of accessing those downloads. Pretty good approach.


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Richard,

The company reads all this babble and doesn't bother to respond so that we
could all partake of their wisdom.

Regards Lagi

On 13 April 2017 at 23:17, Richard Gaskin via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

> Richmond wrote:
>
> > On 4/13/17 7:44 pm, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
> ...
> >> to have no download links at all on the site. Have you seen the LC
> >> site lately? I could find no download links at all. None. There's
> >> the signup but it's a pretty roundabout process.
> >
> > I raised it, Richard Gaskin agreed; what happens; sweet Football
> > Association.
>
> My comments on the value of allowing voluntary email address submission
> were limited to the Community Edition at the .org site - see the second
> half of this post for what I wrote on the subject:
>
> http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2017-March/235290.html
>
> How they handle email address harvesting at the .com site for the
> proprietary edition is, literally, their business.
>
> I usually direct questions I have about their business to them directly,
> rather than to other users here, because I don't expect the users here to
> answer questions only the company can answer.
>
>
> For the Community .org site, however, I feel it can be most effective in
> terms of both promoting platform adoption and reducing cost to the company
> to the degree that it actively invites community participation.
>
> That is a set of goals I'm still pursuing.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  LiveCode Community Liaison
>  rich...@livecode.org
>
>
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Lagi Pittas via use-livecode]

Hi,

Over the years I found that when there was a trial version of software ,
whether it was 10 days or 30 days , it didn't make any difference because
 except for the first day of download life/work would get in the way and by
the time I had time to test the software the 30 days were up.


XOJO in my opinion has been clever - the system works forever in the IDE
 you just can't compile..

LC should put the community version next to the compare versions table and
allow people to download that - you either love it or hate it so why bother
whether they can see the communirty  version. Like you say we need to get
it in as many hands.

Again time has been spent prettyjng up the site (in your face popups that
sh*t on my windscreen everytime I go to the frontpage - have they heard
about ciookies?.

No thought has been given about the user experience and the hoops people
have to jump through. I say again B4a and Xojo are priced right for an
entry level system and are a no brainer - I have bought both and they won't
run out.

Will Livecode's "digital Marketing" get with the program any time soon? --
I think not until the SHTF

Lagi

On 13 April 2017 at 17:44, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode <
use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote:

>
> > 'Confusion' being an understatement, it would have swiftly
> > caused shock and horror :)
> > Dave
>
> Yep. :) But there are good reasons for comparison. Swift was making an
> outrageous joke to draw attention to other actual proposals for the
> problems of his day.
>
> Right at the moment there may have been a dip in LC newbies (perhaps,
> judging from some imperfect indicators) and naturally there's a "hunger" to
> spread the word and get LC into the hands of interested people. Having a
> download as visible and easy as possible could be a realistic measure to
> help with part of that. Ditto for a very "swift" signup.
>
> So joking about it might go like: Whatever you do, don't show the
> uninitiated and uncouth masses of people your greatest treasure, that is,
> your downloads! You must keep those a secret altogether, or at least make
> people go through a satisfying number of steps first before they reach
> them, so only the elite will find them, being tested and purified, thus in
> the proper state of mind to appreciate the true quality of these
> executables. Never be tempted by frivolous appeals to reduce the number of
> steps or clicks in that process, or to start the download while they are
> verifying their email, or heaven forbid, to roll the signup into the
> installer. No, friends, the real answer has been right in front of us the
> whole time. All we need to do is get LC tattoos in, let's say, "modest"
> places. It flies under the radar, but really makes an impact when revealed
> in some situations. And you always know it's there, gives you secret
> empowerment all day. Something like that.
>
> You can see why I thought again and held off on that the first post!
>
> Anyway, I would say it's also just a tiny bit shocking to have no download
> links at all on the site. Have you seen the LC site lately? I could find no
> download links at all. None. There's the signup but it's a pretty
> roundabout process. If I were a first-time visitor to the LC web site, I'm
> not sure whether I would have snagged a download by the end of my visit or
> not. That's why I posted.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Curry K.
>
>
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richard Gaskin via use-livecode]

Richmond wrote:

> On 4/13/17 7:44 pm, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:
...
>> to have no download links at all on the site. Have you seen the LC
>> site lately? I could find no download links at all. None. There's
>> the signup but it's a pretty roundabout process.
>
> I raised it, Richard Gaskin agreed; what happens; sweet Football
> Association.

My comments on the value of allowing voluntary email address submission 
were limited to the Community Edition at the .org site - see the second 
half of this post for what I wrote on the subject:


http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2017-March/235290.html

How they handle email address harvesting at the .com site for the 
proprietary edition is, literally, their business.


I usually direct questions I have about their business to them directly, 
rather than to other users here, because I don't expect the users here 
to answer questions only the company can answer.



For the Community .org site, however, I feel it can be most effective in 
terms of both promoting platform adoption and reducing cost to the 
company to the degree that it actively invites community participation.


That is a set of goals I'm still pursuing.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 LiveCode Community Liaison
 rich...@livecode.org


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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

On 4/13/17 7:44 pm, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


> 'Confusion' being an understatement, it would have swiftly
> caused shock and horror :)
> Dave

Yep. :) But there are good reasons for comparison. Swift was making an 
outrageous joke to draw attention to other actual proposals for the 
problems of his day.


Right at the moment there may have been a dip in LC newbies (perhaps, 
judging from some imperfect indicators) and naturally there's a 
"hunger" to spread the word and get LC into the hands of interested 
people. Having a download as visible and easy as possible could be a 
realistic measure to help with part of that. Ditto for a very "swift" 
signup.


So joking about it might go like: Whatever you do, don't show the 
uninitiated and uncouth masses of people your greatest treasure, that 
is, your downloads! You must keep those a secret altogether, or at 
least make people go through a satisfying number of steps first before 
they reach them, so only the elite will find them, being tested and 
purified, thus in the proper state of mind to appreciate the true 
quality of these executables. Never be tempted by frivolous appeals to 
reduce the number of steps or clicks in that process, or to start the 
download while they are verifying their email, or heaven forbid, to 
roll the signup into the installer. No, friends, the real answer has 
been right in front of us the whole time. All we need to do is get LC 
tattoos in, let's say, "modest" places. It flies under the radar, but 
really makes an impact when revealed in some situations. And you 
always know it's there, gives you secret empowerment all day. 
Something like that.


You can see why I thought again and held off on that the first post!

Anyway, I would say it's also just a tiny bit shocking


It's daft! And I have ALREADY made the point about the teeny-weeny green 
Community button way at bottom-left of the page

to minimise the chance that anyone sees it.

BUT: don't tell the people at LiveCode centre that because they know 
BETTER than anyone how to market something,

as one can see from the way the LC newbie number is dropping.

I have criticised the LiveCode web-site many times, as have many others; 
and as far as I recall not once have the LiveCode
people admitted that a criticism might, just, possibly have a spot of 
validity.


Of course elsewhere if someone never, ever admitted to having made a 
misjudgement they'd be called "arrogant",
but you cannot do that with LiveCode because they pay good money to 
marketing people to do their website, and they
cannot be seen admitting they might have got the wrong firm; Oh, and 
they are perfect.


to have no download links at all on the site. Have you seen the LC 
site lately? I could find no download links at all. None. There's the 
signup but it's a pretty roundabout process.


I raised it, Richard Gaskin agreed; what happens; sweet Football 
Association.


If I were a first-time visitor to the LC web site, I'm not sure 
whether I would have snagged a download by the end of my visit or not. 
That's why I posted.


Best wishes,

Curry K.



Richmond.

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

> 'Confusion' being an understatement, it would have swiftly
> caused shock and horror :)
> Dave

Yep. :) But there are good reasons for comparison. Swift was making an 
outrageous joke to draw attention to other actual proposals for the 
problems of his day.


Right at the moment there may have been a dip in LC newbies (perhaps, 
judging from some imperfect indicators) and naturally there's a "hunger" 
to spread the word and get LC into the hands of interested people. 
Having a download as visible and easy as possible could be a realistic 
measure to help with part of that. Ditto for a very "swift" signup.


So joking about it might go like: Whatever you do, don't show the 
uninitiated and uncouth masses of people your greatest treasure, that 
is, your downloads! You must keep those a secret altogether, or at least 
make people go through a satisfying number of steps first before they 
reach them, so only the elite will find them, being tested and purified, 
thus in the proper state of mind to appreciate the true quality of these 
executables. Never be tempted by frivolous appeals to reduce the number 
of steps or clicks in that process, or to start the download while they 
are verifying their email, or heaven forbid, to roll the signup into the 
installer. No, friends, the real answer has been right in front of us 
the whole time. All we need to do is get LC tattoos in, let's say, 
"modest" places. It flies under the radar, but really makes an impact 
when revealed in some situations. And you always know it's there, gives 
you secret empowerment all day. Something like that.


You can see why I thought again and held off on that the first post!

Anyway, I would say it's also just a tiny bit shocking to have no 
download links at all on the site. Have you seen the LC site lately? I 
could find no download links at all. None. There's the signup but it's a 
pretty roundabout process. If I were a first-time visitor to the LC web 
site, I'm not sure whether I would have snagged a download by the end of 
my visit or not. That's why I posted.


Best wishes,

Curry K.


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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Richmond Mathewson via use-livecode]

"swiftly"

Dunno: tossed a baby on the barbeque just last weekend.

Richmond.

On 4/13/17 11:09 am, Alex Tweedly via use-livecode wrote:



On 13/04/2017 02:49, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


(I was going to joke around a bit for those who are familiar with the 
original "Modest Proposal" in literature, but I'm not sure if that 
work is still popular these days so I decided not to.)

Just as well you didn't, that would swiftly have caused confusion :-)
Alex.

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Dave Kilroy via use-livecode]

‘Confusion' being an understatement, it would have swiftly caused shock and 
horror :)
Dave


>> (I was going to joke around a bit for those who are familiar with the 
>> original "Modest Proposal" in literature, but I'm not sure if that 
>> work is still popular these days so I decided not to.) 
>> 
> Just as well you didn't, that would swiftly have caused confusion :-) 
> Alex. 
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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Alex Tweedly via use-livecode]

On 13/04/2017 02:49, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode wrote:


(I was going to joke around a bit for those who are familiar with the 
original "Modest Proposal" in literature, but I'm not sure if that 
work is still popular these days so I decided not to.)

Just as well you didn't, that would swiftly have caused confusion :-)
Alex.

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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode]

Charles Szasz:
> Curry,
> What is the link to your website store?

Howdy,

Thanks for asking! My addons are now residing at:

http://livecodeaddons.com/

And each product has links to the LiveCode store or the eSellerate 
store, which is here if you need the quickest link:


http://store.esellerate.net/s.aspx?s=STR3897026475

I've been working on several updates that are on the way, there will be 
fixes for LC 8 issues in a couple of products including (gasp) 
WordReport, and SpreadOut's Excel export has very cool image support and 
extensive text styles, among other things. All the addons have an update 
coming sooner or later.


The LiveCode field control keeps getting better, more features and 
fixes, and the import/export addons will continue to make good use of 
this. I'm still learning amazing nuances of the LC field (mostly good, 
still a few quirks to bug report) even after working with it daily all 
these years on advanced formatting. Good stuff ahead!


Which is why I hope more people will be downloading LiveCode, and I 
welcome more downloads of my addons too!


Best wishes,

Curry Kenworthy

Custom Software Development
LiveCode Training and Consulting
http://livecodeconsulting.com/


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Re: Downloads - Immodest Proposal

[Charles Szasz via use-livecode]

Curry,

What is the link to your website store?  The link I have currently have is out 
dated.  

Thanks for your time!

Sent from my iPad
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