Re: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
Hi Curry... This was helpful on a day where LC threw a curveball at me. Hard coded AWS endpoints. I agree with a lot of the sentiments. Overall there is a lot to love and most bugs have workaroundsbut some things are dragging on. Have a great day Tom On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:36 PM Sean Cole (Pi) via use-livecode, < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Good luck, Curry. That’s all I’m gonna say this time :P > > On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > > Me, recently: > > > > > I don't have any big headaches, thank God! > > > > That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :) > > But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck. > > Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around. > > > > It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs! > > Only in the last few days, I've run across: > > > > - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies > > - a PDF bug or limitation > > - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors > > - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget) > > > > So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline. > > Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC! > > Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug. > > When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist. > > > > I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help! > > Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline. > > I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living. > > > > But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough. > > Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them. > > Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself. > > > > I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck. > > With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC. > > I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code! > > > > (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log. > > Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming. > > I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first. > > But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.) > > > > We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground. > > Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE. > > The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build. > > > > THE GOOD NEWS: > > > > There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on! > > I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up. > > Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project. > > The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points. > > That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation. > > > > This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches. > > To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations. > > I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health! > > I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better > > > > So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope! > > I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches. > > This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original. > > Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share. > > My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases. > > > > As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs! > > If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive. > > > > Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added. > > So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED. > > We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs. > > Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed! > > > > THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS: > > > > But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury. > > Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :) > > From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message. > > > > I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!" > > Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit. > > If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing. > > And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds. > > But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug. > > > > Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win. > > But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another. > > We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs. > > > > I do my part: I'll start reporting this lates
Re: LC Bugmageddon or Bugportunity?
Good luck, Curry. That’s all I’m gonna say this time :P On Tue, 23 Feb 2021 at 16:58, Curry Kenworthy via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Me, recently: > > > I don't have any big headaches, thank God! > > That's true; it's rare that I get stuck. I'm workaround-musclebound. :) > But I do understand why people get headaches and get stuck. > Hope I didn't sound aloof from the problems; just busy working around. > > It's not just features; it's LiveCode's level of quality/bugs! > Only in the last few days, I've run across: > > - two, maybe three clipboard copy/paste bugs or deficiencies > - a PDF bug or limitation > - a field glitch, and a couple of other suspicious behaviors > - oh yeah, and a hard crash (almost forget) > > So I'll recipe and search/report those right after meeting my deadline. > Meanwhile, I see many old friends/old bugs still in the latest LC! > Rule of thumb: if you try ANY new route in LC, usually there's a bug. > When you use an old route, often still the same bug, or a new twist. > > I can handle that. It's where the "workaround muscles" really help! > Rarely bothers me, unless there's a showstopper on a tight deadline. > I even enjoy a good workaround session; it's what I do for a living. > > But when beginners and intermediate users run into LC bugs, it's tough. > Confuses them to sort their own bugs from LC's, much less solving them. > Who do bugs hurt most? Newbies, people on deadlines, and LC itself. > > I've helped many newbies and oldbies get past LC bugs and get unstuck. > With various competition, being buggy won't help make the world LC. > I've warned about quality for many years. New code should be good code! > > (Yes, my own addons still need updating: the proverbial speck & log. > Although here the log usually derives from the speck! It's coming. > I know this would sound better if my own stuff was finished first. > But I must and will stay involved, and speak up, while doing that.) > > We all build on top of the LC layer: the proverbial sandy/solid ground. > Your software. My addons. Your clients. My clients. The IDE. > The ground we build upon is more crucial than any single thing we build. > > THE GOOD NEWS: > > There are tactics you can use to roll past bugs and soldier on! > I'll be sharing some of those as soon as I write them up. > Choice of dev tactics can really make or break a project. > The key is how to leverage LC's strong points and avoid its weak points. > That's the bright side, or "Bugportunity" of the situation. > > This can help coders survive and thrive in LC-land without headaches. > To some extent, it can negate the effects of bugs and limitations. > I had to adjust my own tactics for MORE LC bugs & LESS CK energy/health! > I'm still not Speedy Gonzales yet, but it's getting better > > So that's why I decided to write again. To the frustrated, there's hope! > I know we always hear the same mantras and see the same approaches. > This is NOT stuff you've heard; I'm the anti-mantra: mostly original. > Just need to finish writing them up, and I'll share. > My increased involvement on this list is the first step toward releases. > > As I also mentioned recently, credit where due: LC fixes MANY bugs! > If we look at # of bugs fixed, it's impressive. > > Problem is that there are many MORE bugs. One gets fixed, another added. > So far I haven't noticed a big reduction in the # of bugs ADDED. > We're mere mortals, so I suggest turning the tide by reducing NET bugs. > Either way, whether LC stays buggy or improves, users can succeed! > > THE GLASS-HALF-BUGGY NEWS: > > But tactics are like an uber-bandaid; easy to forget about the injury. > Later that can lead to further injury, infection, gangrene, etc. :) > From there, the Apocalypse. That's the "Bugmageddon" half of my message. > > I saw a funny YouTube animal video comment: "Damn nature, you scary!" > Likewise, sometimes "Wow LC, you pretty buggy!" It's part luck & habit. > If you have experience and stick to what works, smooth sailing. > And of course, often sailing on top of previous workarounds. > But when you need something different - boom! Likely to hit an LC bug. > > Tactics help there, too. Leverage LC's strong points & good code to win. > But LC still needs fewer bugs. Fixing one bug without adding another. > We all help, but ultimately it's LC's job/decision to reduce LC's bugs. > > I do my part: I'll start reporting this latest bug batch ASAP. > Not only that, I'll post resources on tactics & LC paradigm when I can. > Along with addon updates and some next-gen tools! Good things coming. > > Other people, and LC Ltd themselves, have great stuff coming soon too. > So it's an exciting time! But I hope LC Bugs are decimated soon. > Having a solid product would help LC reach a wider audience. > > This has always been a consistent problem in LC, from v111 to v962. > Luckily we can usually work around bugs, but a solid LC would rock! > Time to reach a new LC generation. T
