Re: What do we know about LC 10?
It's been talked about. But I'm with that other guy over there who thinks a bit more refinement needs doing before going down the New Feature path. Bob S > On Aug 30, 2018, at 22:26 , Geoff Canyon via use-livecode > wrote: > > Maybe? I haven't explored LCB at all. I'm much more interested in extending > Livecode Script, if that ever becomes possible. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
On 2018-08-30 21:42, Mike Kerner via use-livecode wrote: Mark tends to complain about the engine, but they also inherited the engine when they bought it from MetaCard. He has said that it is difficult to work on. Heh - any complaints are more 'frustration' over the effort/time to make significant changes rather than anything else. Stability/robustnss wise it is actually pretty good - sure there are edge cases it is not that great at but the majority of what most people use all the time is rock solid. Interestingly, some of the edge cases are being hit more than they ever used to - but I consider that a good thing as it means people are pushing it much harder than it ever has been in its history. In terms of difficulty working on it: - it comprises C/C++/Obj-C/Obj-C++/Java - it grew very organically in the early days (less so since I've been working on it) - it has a great deal of hand-coded/replicated *almost* consistent but not quite code patterns - it has a language system meaning that changes must work for all reasonably determinable use-cases - it has a language system in which 10,000,000s of lines of code are written, meaning that changes must not break existing code (and if they do there has to be an exceptionally good reason to!) - it has a GUI framework which must largely work the same in multiple different windowing systems - it has a large library of utility functions/commands - it runs on 6 quite different operating systems - it runs on 4 different processor architectures So, yes, it is difficult to work on [ some might say exceptionally difficult ;o) ]. The difficulty is not just because of the size/scale/structure of the source but because the whole of what the engine is and must do puts a huge number of constraints on what can be done (and what should be done!) in any reasonable time frame. Actually, I think I have now been the chief engineer on the engine for longer than it was ever MetaCard (or even existed at all!). In that time the source base has grown from around 150,000 code lines (+ 5,000 comment lines) to 475,000+ code lines (+ 50,000 comment lines). [ This would be comparing v2.0 to v7.1 - I've not done a loc analysis on recent versions - and doesn't include the LCS / LCB which we consider to be engine source code ]. Upshot - I am ultimately responsible for the greater part of what the engine is now regardless of what it was as MetaCard. Aside from any complaints I might make, I do still love working on it; even though, as I get older, my enjoyment from writing C/C++/Obj-C/Obj-C++/Java declines year-on-year. Warmest Regards, Mark. -- Mark Waddingham ~ m...@livecode.com ~ http://www.livecode.com/ LiveCode: Everyone can create apps ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
Maybe? I haven't explored LCB at all. I'm much more interested in extending Livecode Script, if that ever becomes possible. On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 9:42 PM Brian Milby via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Isn’t this somewhat possible in LCB now? I know there isn’t really any > documentation on how to write the syntax, but there are the examples of the > built in libraries. But, the added syntax would only work in LCB code. > > Thanks, > Brian > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
In my opinion the focus should be on performance which has been slow down approx. 9 times compared to version 6. You can build as much as “features” as you want but this should never hit the performance of the product. Just my two cents. On 31/08/2018, 06:41, "use-livecode on behalf of Brian Milby via use-livecode" wrote: >Isn’t this somewhat possible in LCB now? I know there isn’t really any >documentation on how to write the syntax, but there are the examples of the >built in libraries. But, the added syntax would only work in LCB code. > >Thanks, >Brian >On Aug 30, 2018, 11:31 PM -0500, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode >, wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 PM Martin Koob via use-livecode < >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: >> >> > I wonder if Open Language will get some attention.. >> > >> >> Open Language was always my favorite feature. I'd still like to be able to >> grow/morph the syntax. >> ___ >> use-livecode mailing list >> use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode >___ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
Isn’t this somewhat possible in LCB now? I know there isn’t really any documentation on how to write the syntax, but there are the examples of the built in libraries. But, the added syntax would only work in LCB code. Thanks, Brian On Aug 30, 2018, 11:31 PM -0500, Geoff Canyon via use-livecode , wrote: > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 PM Martin Koob via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > I wonder if Open Language will get some attention.. > > > > Open Language was always my favorite feature. I'd still like to be able to > grow/morph the syntax. > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:42 PM Martin Koob via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > I wonder if Open Language will get some attention.. > Open Language was always my favorite feature. I'd still like to be able to grow/morph the syntax. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
I wonder if Open Language will get some attention.. It was on the Road Map in 2014. https://livecode.com/the-present-and-future-livecode/ >Open Language: With the core refactoring almost complete (LiveCode 7.0) we’ve started to turn our attention >to the final aspect of this project which is to open up the language for extension by anyone. We have been >prototyping for quite some time now and plans are in place to move this project forward at a rapid pace once >LiveCode 7.0 is released. We will complete network, socket and database libraries with easy to use English like >syntax as part of the development and testing of this feature. This is currently slated as one half of our next >major release, currently imaginatively named “8.0”. There was a long thread about it in Oct 2015 in the forums "What is Open Language." http://lists.runrev.com/pipermail/use-livecode/2015-October/220332.html Did Open Language just serve as the foundation for Widgets or was there a more substantial feature in the roadmap? >Theme / Widgets: Another important prototype we’ve invested time in is codenamed “Widgets”. Our aim is to >provide a means for any LiveCode developer to extend the control set. This builds on “Open Language” making >it possible for any developer to extend the language and the UI. While still in its infancy, we are really excited >about the results which will make LiveCode 8.0 a groundbreaking release. I thought it would something that would allow developers to extend the language using more english like form rather than just using a function with parameters. i.e. instead of using a call like this. AWSS3GetPresignedURL(pBucket,pObject,pExpires) You could extend the language allowing the parser to understand something like Get AWS3 PresignedURL for [tObject] in [tBucket] expiring in [tTime] [seconds|milliseconds|minutes] LiveCode has been gaining many features but the code gets less and less English like and less readable. It would be great if the big mystery behind the LiveCode 10 banner is a way to get back as much as possible to following the principle of human readable code. Martin Bob Sneidar via use-livecode wrote > Hey folks, > > What do we know about whats coming in LC 10? > > My only hint was the smile on Kevin's face when he mentioned it when him > and Chris were here in March on the develop yourself trip. But he didn't > give a single hint. > > I'm assuming big improvements to widgets and LC builder. I know there is > also a store & improved sharing mechanism for developers. > > Isn't it time to announce the plans sometime soon? :) > > What do you guys know? > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@.runrev > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- Sent from: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Revolution-User-f278306.html ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
Tom Glod wrote: > We have to remember the engine and the IDE are two distinct > projects. > The problems are mostly in the IDE. I;m finding the engine to be > very solid. The one thing every LiveCode scripter has in common is that they can use LiveCode Script. The more IDE scripting fixes the community takes care of the more engine work the team can do. https://livecode.org/contribute/ -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Systems Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
Mark tends to complain about the engine, but they also inherited the engine when they bought it from MetaCard. He has said that it is difficult to work on. On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:57 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Kevin seemed pretty pumped about it. > > We have to remember the engine and the IDE are two distinct projects. > The problems are mostly in the IDE. I;m finding the engine to be very > solid. > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:29 AM Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > James, considering the previous upgrade steps to major upgrades (eg. 5.x > > -> 6.x -> 7.x -> 8.x -> 9.01) I think it will take at least a year or so > we > > can expect an major upgrade to LiveCode 10. Who knows? Kevin for sure ;-) > > > > Cheers, > > Erik > > > > > > > > > > On 30/08/2018, 01:59, "use-livecode on behalf of James At The Hale via > > use-livecode" > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > > >I am all for seeing where things might be headed, but I am really more > > interested in getting to where they WERE headed first. > > >We still have the completion of Infinite Livecode to be delivered (the > > fully documented examples etc), we still have DG2 to be completed. > > >Given the time being taken to finally deliver on these I wouldn’t hold > my > > breathe for promises about a mythical 10. > > > > > >___ > > >use-livecode mailing list > > >use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
Kevin seemed pretty pumped about it. We have to remember the engine and the IDE are two distinct projects. The problems are mostly in the IDE. I;m finding the engine to be very solid. On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 2:29 AM Erik Beugelaar via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > James, considering the previous upgrade steps to major upgrades (eg. 5.x > -> 6.x -> 7.x -> 8.x -> 9.01) I think it will take at least a year or so we > can expect an major upgrade to LiveCode 10. Who knows? Kevin for sure ;-) > > Cheers, > Erik > > > > > On 30/08/2018, 01:59, "use-livecode on behalf of James At The Hale via > use-livecode" use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > >I am all for seeing where things might be headed, but I am really more > interested in getting to where they WERE headed first. > >We still have the completion of Infinite Livecode to be delivered (the > fully documented examples etc), we still have DG2 to be completed. > >Given the time being taken to finally deliver on these I wouldn’t hold my > breathe for promises about a mythical 10. > > > >___ > >use-livecode mailing list > >use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
James, considering the previous upgrade steps to major upgrades (eg. 5.x -> 6.x -> 7.x -> 8.x -> 9.01) I think it will take at least a year or so we can expect an major upgrade to LiveCode 10. Who knows? Kevin for sure ;-) Cheers, Erik On 30/08/2018, 01:59, "use-livecode on behalf of James At The Hale via use-livecode" wrote: >I am all for seeing where things might be headed, but I am really more >interested in getting to where they WERE headed first. >We still have the completion of Infinite Livecode to be delivered (the fully >documented examples etc), we still have DG2 to be completed. >Given the time being taken to finally deliver on these I wouldn’t hold my >breathe for promises about a mythical 10. > >___ >use-livecode mailing list >use-livecode@lists.runrev.com >Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >preferences: >http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
ya i understand any frustration with existing bugs and issues...and v9 has a few of them for sure. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 8:25 PM hh via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > Tom G. wrote: > > What do we know about whats coming in LC 10? > > I'm assuming big improvements to widgets and LC builder. > > Still waiting for big improvements to widgets and LC builder > for LC 9 ... > > Increasing the version number alone doesn't improve the net > content (= gross content - fixes of freshly introduced bugs). > > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
> Tom G. wrote: > What do we know about whats coming in LC 10? > I'm assuming big improvements to widgets and LC builder. Still waiting for big improvements to widgets and LC builder for LC 9 ... Increasing the version number alone doesn't improve the net content (= gross content - fixes of freshly introduced bugs). ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
I am all for seeing where things might be headed, but I am really more interested in getting to where they WERE headed first. We still have the completion of Infinite Livecode to be delivered (the fully documented examples etc), we still have DG2 to be completed. Given the time being taken to finally deliver on these I wouldn’t hold my breathe for promises about a mythical 10. ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
yeah I know but each new version is in DP for many many months I'm just talking about announcing the plans for the next version. STABLE V8 was 4 May 2016 DP 1 v9 was 17 October 2016 Seems like its a similar timeline relatively speaking now. Some of us have long term plans and it helps to know whats coming so that we can plan along with the development of the platform. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 4:04 PM Mike Kerner via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > we don't even have 9.0.1 out yet. > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 3:02 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > > > Hey folks, > > > > What do we know about whats coming in LC 10? > > > > My only hint was the smile on Kevin's face when he mentioned it when him > > and Chris were here in March on the develop yourself trip. But he > didn't > > give a single hint. > > > > I'm assuming big improvements to widgets and LC builder. I know there is > > also a store & improved sharing mechanism for developers. > > > > Isn't it time to announce the plans sometime soon? :) > > > > What do you guys know? > > ___ > > use-livecode mailing list > > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > > subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > > > > > -- > On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth > On the second day, God created the oceans. > On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, >and did a little diving. > And God said, "This is good." > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
Re: What do we know about LC 10?
we don't even have 9.0.1 out yet. On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 3:02 PM Tom Glod via use-livecode < use-livecode@lists.runrev.com> wrote: > Hey folks, > > What do we know about whats coming in LC 10? > > My only hint was the smile on Kevin's face when he mentioned it when him > and Chris were here in March on the develop yourself trip. But he didn't > give a single hint. > > I'm assuming big improvements to widgets and LC builder. I know there is > also a store & improved sharing mechanism for developers. > > Isn't it time to announce the plans sometime soon? :) > > What do you guys know? > ___ > use-livecode mailing list > use-livecode@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode > -- On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth On the second day, God created the oceans. On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours, and did a little diving. And God said, "This is good." ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
What do we know about LC 10?
Hey folks, What do we know about whats coming in LC 10? My only hint was the smile on Kevin's face when he mentioned it when him and Chris were here in March on the develop yourself trip. But he didn't give a single hint. I'm assuming big improvements to widgets and LC builder. I know there is also a store & improved sharing mechanism for developers. Isn't it time to announce the plans sometime soon? :) What do you guys know? ___ use-livecode mailing list use-livecode@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-livecode
