The efficiency of the PC (oops! er, Mac) is practically without precedent since
the days of the first chipped-flint hand axe, so it is hard to get a handle on
what something like Revolution is worth. It feels to me that it is worth at
least as much as the modest computer on which I run it.
From my reading of what Frank wrote it wasn't a case of charging on a
delivery basis but allowing a cheaper entry to DreamCard, one that didn't
allow delivery. ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to other
DreamCard
on Fri, 25 Nov 2005
Frank R wrote:
Anyone know what tool they use for graphic design...
I would certainly *hope* people are aware of what tool(s) they use...
...and if not, anyone have any good suggestions for
inexpensive, easy graphic design tools?
Me, I use Photoshop. Wonderful
I thought it might be the issue. I stand corrected.
Have you tried destroying the graphic stuff and recreating it?
Doing garbage collection of sorts? Delete local arrays?
cheers
Xavier
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Wilhelm Sanke
I didn't mean charging per-copy distribution fees. I completely agree those
schemes are not well received.
All I meant was:
- 0 to develop inside the IDE, without the ability to deploy anything
- X to deploy anything, where X is the same number whether you deploy
1 or a million
Kay - well said - and, yes, you were the only one who Got the pricing I was
referring to with:
ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to other
DreamCard users you'll need the $99 version
Kay C Lan
David Coker wrote:
Revolution already *is* that later version with the advanced features. ;)
I think most of the users consider Revolution to be Enterprise quality and
is up to virtually any task that you can throw in it's direction. I know I
do.
Quick research:
DreamCard:
United States
I have an application that is comprised on a number of stacks.
The top level stack is built into a Standalone and it calls other
stacks (.rev files) via start using and go stack commands.
When in the IDE the folder stucture is like this:
BaseFolder/StartUp.rev -- just contains a splash
David-
Friday, November 25, 2005, 5:34:28 AM, you wrote:
set itemDelimiter to :/
I'm surprised this works at all...
--
As I said, It was just typeo, the real script compiles and works fine
in the IDE.
All the Best
Dave
___
use-revolution
Before I start my complaint about pricing, let me at least say that
I applaud the company for having a $99 price point for Dreamcard.
It at least opens the doors for more people to explore this
intriguing tool.
On the other hand, the pricing needs to go even further. In my 20
years in the
I'm a high school teacher and support my family single-income-style. I pay for
my software/hardware out of pocket [not even tax credit.] I'm also the world's
cheapest man; to wit we have had marital difficulties because I will not let
love stand in the way of conserving cash.
The background
Oh, Happy Day!
Judy
On Fri, 25 Nov 2005, Ken Ray wrote:
This was the same philosophy espoused by Scott Raney, when he was selling
MetaCard for $999 and nothing else... of course, that was until RunRev
picked it up...
:-)
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I've got a bunch of 64 x 64 icons (myIcon.ico) that I need in a project. Where
to I put them so they are accessible like the RR standard icons?
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Hi Preston,
I've got a bunch of 64 x 64 icons (myIcon.ico) that I need in a
project. Where to I put them so they are accessible like the RR
standard icons?
sorry, but Rev does not support the ICO format.
You will have to convert them to GIF, PNG or JPG format
to be able to use them.
The
So, at least part of my Beef about the end of the 'FREE'
10-lines-of-code may be partly justified . . . see Frank
R's points/moans.
I also understand the arguments put forward by Richard
Gaskin and Co.
I also know that working with the old RR 2 'Free' version
can get extremely frustrating - and
On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:12 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Personally, I think Rev is priced too low.
Sh... don't talk that too loud, I am trying to sum some money to
buy a new license and pounds are expensive ;-)
Cheers
andre
___
use-revolution
Excellent suggestions Sarah. Your right, I need to start simple and
work toward the complex. Between reading about all of the exciting
stuff people are doing with Rev and my own overactive imaginations
its difficult to buckle down and start with Hello World : )
Thanks
Todd
--
Todd
I am one of those free HC to paid HC to paid SC crossgrade to paid
Rev enterprise crossgrade to paid Studio downgrade to paid DC to paid
DC upgrade. My gosh, I have owned one of every license! Personal
circumstances kept me from ever using the first Enterprise license,
and I would never
On 11/24/2005 at 05:04 PM, Thomas McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This definitely sounds like a user error. If you have more than one
menu group it will create confusion. If the group fgttryiolk is in
the place menu then it was because you 'the user' created it first,
Rev certainly did
On Nov 26, 2005, at 10:57 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The MacOS
is a cool and wonderful thing, but there is a certain quirkiness that
often is simply overlooked by its many FANaticS (RunRev Team
included).
;-)
I resemble that remark ;-)))
M
Just lightening things up a bit, lest anyone
Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
play a MIDI file using the play command. Using the play command, I get a
nice screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an
audio file of some form.
?
Having a small problem with my print script shown below. Will
appreciate any help.
Using a scrolling window stack. Rev 2.5.1, OS 10.3.9, Paper size 8.5x11
The top 232 pixels of the card contains numerous flds ,etc followed
by fld Listfield. Fld Listfield can contain up to 47 lines for one
Frank R wrote:
Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
play a MIDI file using the play command. Using the play command, I get a
nice screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an
audio file of some form.
If the player is
Cuz:
1. It didn't make sense, and I'm trying to learn the product
2. The play command makes it easy to play a segment of the file, which I need
to do
3. I need to start the player programmatically, and while I see messages to
send to the player, I don't see a way to start it yet.
On Nov 25, 2005, at 11:12 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
RealBASIC Standard $99
RealBASIC Pro $399
Macromedia Flash: $699
Macromedia Director: $1,199 (per platform)
I decided a while back not to get involved with tool politics in this
forum (it has caused ill-will in the
Frank R wrote:
Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If the player is working for you why not use that?
1. It didn't make sense, and I'm trying to learn the product
The play command is an old interface to the system's video and audio
playback. While not officially depricated, it
Frank R wrote:
Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but
I can't play a MIDI file using the play command. Using the play
command, I get a nice screech, leading me to believe it is
interpreting the MIDI file as an audio file of some form.
Right. Player objects
hmm, well i havnt seen this flavor of oddness, but the few weird 'how
did that happen???' things with groups have all happened on the Windows
side for me and I do most of my development on the Mac side. Since this
is usually after a lot of development time, its hard to say exactly
what caused
Hello Phil Davis,
I do not have access to it now but two more questions. The question names
are still active when all the buttons are set up as a group (I imagine I
must have to set then up before they are a group)? Why doesn't
answer gQuestion1
return a value when used in a button?
Well-said, Preston! I'm adding this to my quotation list for my
positive reminders of why I do what I do.
On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:04 AM, Preston Shea wrote:
A thousand bucks to set up your own contracting business? You gotta
be kidding!
~~
Dan
I honestly do not believe that a single small company -- and RunRev
is small -- can do a great job of serving both the professional
programming market and the hobbyist/Inventive User market. The needs,
expectations, demands, support requirements, feature sets,
documentation needs, training
Frank.
Can you give us an example or two of where this pricing is common
among development tools? I see feature-crippled and time-limited
evaluation licensing all the time, but I can't honestly think of a
single development tool that has a free learning edition that you
upgrade to so
Frank...
Supplementing my last post with a response to this
On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:41 AM, Frank R wrote:
ie for $20 you can have DreamCard but whatever you create
can only run in your copy of DreamCard, if you want to deploy to
other
DreamCard users you'll need the $99 version
This
There's no such thing as bug-free software.
And the company has recently begun doing a fantastic job of squashing
bugs, so they get the message that they need to be more bug-free.
On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:03 AM, David Burgun wrote:
Before they do that they need to get all the bugs out of it,
As someone who has been playing in the software universe for far, far
too long, I can tell you that:
(a) your basic idea is attractive and workable
(b) it is an economic disaster for the publisher
Why? Because of something called SKUs. That stands for Stock Keeping
Unit and it's the number
On 26 Nov 2005, at 21:01, Dan Shafer wrote:
I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up
with a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing
this since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone
could point me to a real exception to that
Dennis
A well-thought-out and appreciated post.
But, as with others who have offered this viewpoint, I am compelled
to ask you to provide even one example of a development tool company
following the strategy you describe below that you say is being used
by the most successful
Roger
Interestingly, I have *never* encounhtered most of the anomalies
mentioned in this thread and I program in Rev exclusively on OS X.
Yeah, I'm a MacBigot and I may just be blissfully unaware of these
issues. But I've written hundreds of small code snippets for books
and articles
On 26 Nov 2005, at 21:14, Dan Shafer wrote:
As someone who has been playing in the software universe for far,
far too long, I can tell you that:
(a) your basic idea is attractive and workable
(b) it is an economic disaster for the publisher
Why? Because of something called SKUs. That stands
David...
Good response. I agree that new markets can turn into wonderful
exceptions.
On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:34 PM, David Bovill wrote:
No-one has managed to do this with software components yet. My view
is that due to the technology and community involved in the
Revolution environment -
Dan, this is an innocent question, not intended to provoke or
contradict, but where do you think Rev is currently falling down with
regard to either pro developers or inventive users?
As a hobbyist/inventive user (an excellent phrase, btw), I feel very
well served by Rev, though perhaps
Dan Shafer wrote:
Not only can I not think of a single *development tool* company
following the strategy of trying to serve two markets with a
single product, I can't even come up with a single successful
software company doing that.
Agreed 100%.
If a tool has any potential to appeal to pros,
Dan Shafer wrote:
On Nov 26, 2005, at 12:34 PM, David Bovill wrote:
No-one has managed to do this with software components yet. My view
is that due to the technology and community involved in the
Revolution environment - RunRev are uniquely placed to pull such a
trick off. Whether anyone
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:03, Mark Smith wrote:
Dan, this is an innocent question, not intended to provoke or
contradict, but where do you think Rev is currently falling down
with regard to either pro developers or inventive users?
Hard one to answer as RunRev do do a VERY good job at trying
David Bovill wrote:
1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial
plugins or open source libraries available compared to other platforms
(this seems to be changing slowly).
They're out there, just poorly cataloged. RunRev currently only lists
components they resell, and
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:02, Dan Shafer wrote:
I have given up on this dream. In the 70's and 80's, several
companies tried -- with true object-oriented platforms such as
Smalltalk and Java -- to create viable third-party marketplaces for
software components, to no avail.
I know what you
David Bovill wrote:
What I would love to see is RunRev let go substantially of the
professional coders end of the market, by adopting an innovative open
content strategy
Letting go of users able and willing to pay top dollar to pursue a
customer self-qualified as less willing to pay seems
I agree Dan...
I have never had any of these issues come up for me.
Tom
On Nov 26, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
Roger
Interestingly, I have *never* encounhtered most of the anomalies
mentioned in this thread and I program in Rev exclusively on OS X.
Yeah, I'm a MacBigot and I
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
David Bovill wrote:
1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial
plugins or open source libraries available compared to other
platforms (this seems to be changing slowly).
They're out there, just poorly cataloged.
Jeffrey Reynolds wrote:
I think some of this is summed up by some stuff just does happen,
whether its a bug, file corruption or a user goof or just doing things
in such an order that a strange event happens
Fortunately you can rule out file corruption for 99% of the cases where
it's
David Bovill wrote:
On 26 Nov 2005, at 22:18, Richard Gaskin wrote:
David Bovill wrote:
1) Lack of the large number of professional grade commercial
plugins or open source libraries available compared to other
platforms (this seems to be changing slowly).
They're out there, just
This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting
Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on
the Message Hierarchy g).
I can only imagine how much work it takes to pull off a project
Us cheap-jacks use GIMP: takes a while to get used to - but
it is worth the work; and, fac it, the price is fantastic!
I use GIMP on Mac OS X and Ubuntu Linux.
GIMP is now available for MAC OS X without having to fool
around with X11.
sincerely, Richmond
For some time I have been toying with the idea that software should
be sold on an income-weighted pricing scheme. If Richard can afford
to pay more for Rev than Andre, it is in large part because he lives
and earns in USA rather than Brazil.
I have a couple of educational titles being sold
Michael Lew wrote:
For some time I have been toying with the idea that software should
be sold on an income-weighted pricing scheme. If Richard can afford
to pay more for Rev than Andre, it is in large part because he lives
and earns in USA rather than Brazil.
I have a couple of
Dan Shafer wrote:
But, as with others who have offered this viewpoint, I am compelled
to ask you to provide even one example of a development tool company
following the strategy you describe below that you say is being used
by the most successful companies today.
And I'll expand on that
Borland. I can't swear they still do it to this day, but in recent years, they
were doing Learning Editions that had lots of function, but you couldn't
legally sell apps built with it.
But, seeing how much dialog this generated, I really I wish I never started
the thread. :)
?? Not according to
http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/
Where'd you see it?
Charles Hartman
On Nov 26, 2005, at 4:52 PM, Mathewson wrote:
GIMP is now available for MAC OS X without having to fool
around with X11.
___
use-revolution mailing
On 11/27/05, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting
Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on
the Message Hierarchy g).
I can only
On Nov 25, 2005, at 8:04 PM, Michael Lew wrote:
For some time I have been toying with the idea that software should
be sold on an income-weighted pricing scheme. If Richard can afford
to pay more for Rev than Andre, it is in large part because he
lives and earns in USA rather than Brazil.
Hello,
can someone help me to understand how to use a Windows DLL in RunRev?
I cannot find the exact function to load a library and use the
functions contained inside. :-(
Thank you!
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use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
I stated in a previous post that the current Mac OS X
version of the GIMP does not require X11.
I was wrong - and I am sorry if this gave anyone false
hope!
Notwithstanding this, I find the GIMP is an excellent
graphic design tool.
There was (2001) a native Cocoa version of GIMP - but it
was
On 11/26/05 3:56 PM, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hats off and three cheers for Jacque and the contributors who put those
together!
Hear hear!
It was a tremendous effort, and one that will benefit the community for
years to come.
I could not agree more.
Thank you, Jacque,
Does anyone know how to trouble shoot there was an error connecting to the
database? I must have an automatic database connection somewhere that I
don't use which is set-up wrong. Is there some kind of debugger message that
I can set to turn on before everything else that would then put in the
On 27/11/2005, at 9:13 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have a couple of educational titles being sold by my University
that cost the same number of Australian dollars to Harvard as they do
to universities in Africa. It doesn't seem fair. Perhaps software
prices could be adjusted for the
Dan,
I know you qualified that as *development* tool, but I am just
thinking *tool*. I don't look at Dream Card differently than
Elements, or a low end CAD tool, or an outliner... All are
consumer tools to me. I look at the utility of each to me to solve
one type of problem. Being a
Recently,Frank R wrote:
Ok, why can I play a MIDI file using a player copied to a window, but I can't
play a MIDI file using the play command. Using the play command, I get a nice
screech, leading me to believe it is interpreting the MIDI file as an audio
file of some form.
I believe this
Frank-
Saturday, November 26, 2005, 2:40:06 PM, you wrote:
Borland. I can't swear they still do it to this day, but in recent years,
they
were doing Learning Editions that had lots of function, but you couldn't
legally sell apps built with it.
Borland makes their 5.0 compiler freely
On Nov 25, 2005, at 7:45 PM, Michael Lew wrote:
At the moment, in your country and mine, the very wealthy pay very
little tax.
The top 1% earners in the US pay 34% of the taxes.
The top 5% earners in the US pay 54% of the taxes.
The top 50% earners in the US pay 97% of the taxes.
If a
Richard-
Saturday, November 26, 2005, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote:
Hats off and three cheers for Jacque and the contributors who put those
together!
Indeed. Jacque made it easy and fun to put together the conferences
and provided the needed support along the way, in addition to
archiving the
on Sat, 26 Nov 2005
Dan Shafer wrote:
Can you give us an example or two of where this
pricing is common among development tools?
I see feature-crippled and time-limited
evaluation licensing all the time, but
I can't honestly think of a single development
tool that has a free learning
Richard-
Saturday, November 26, 2005, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote:
This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting
Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
than a dozen scripting experts (and one slacker who did the session on
the Message Hierarchy g).
On 11/26/05 8:04 PM, Mark Wieder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Richard-
Saturday, November 26, 2005, 1:56:10 PM, you wrote:
This morning was the last of 16 installments of the Scripting
Conferences organized by Jacque Gay with the help of RunRev and more
than a dozen scripting experts (and
Sorry to put this OT subject on the list but I'm hoping to solicit some of
the more knowledgeable minds out there...
Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
bounced virus email messages. Of course I did not initiate any of the
original messages -- I'm receiving
I wasn't referring to the free and old C++ available. Recently, they had
Learning Editions of All their current development tools - Delphi, C++, Kylix,
Java.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Frank-
Saturday, November 26, 2005, 2:40:06 PM, you wrote:
Borland. I can't swear they still do it to
if messageChunk(someText, (?.)BODY(.+)/BODY, tStart, tEnd) then
-- do something with the text here
end if
...and, of course, that should be (?s) instead of (?.)
--
-Mark Wieder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I've been racking my brain the last 48 hours and I cannot come up with
a single development tool company that has succeeded at doing this
since Borland's very early days. I'd be delighted if someone could
point me to a real exception to that rule, but absent that, I maintain
my position.
Richard Gaskin wrote:
Gray Matter used to be
that source, but they closed their doors many years ago, and today only
Macromedia themselves can afford to be the central repository.
Yeah, and the guy that ran Gray Matter was a crook. Took a bunch of
money from us, and others. Turns out he's
It would be interesting to see some statistics from the company re:
regular, paying customers and per license type. Perhaps the reality is
counter-intuitive, but to what extent does Rev have an in with the big
programming companies?
It seems a conundrum. It would seem that the company has
Hmmm, but for really simple stuff (and the ability to translate from and
two ~75 or more graphic file formats), there's nothing like the shareware
program GraphicConverter:
http://www.lemkesoft.de
Love it...
It's no Photoshop, but if you don't quite need Photoshop and, in any
event, can't
Frank-
Saturday, November 26, 2005, 7:13:30 PM, you wrote:
I wasn't referring to the free and old C++ available. Recently,
they had Learning Editions of All their current development tools -
Delphi, C++, Kylix, Java.
Well, let's see...
C++ Builder *30-day trial* version 6 is dated March
Richard Gaskin wrote:
Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull that
off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.
What a kind thing to say, thanks so much. Ditto to Ken, Sarah, and Mark.
It's true that the conferences were a major effort, but it was something
I
Good question, Mark.
I'm not sure RunRev is falling down with respect to either market at
this point because neither market has yet reched the point where its
demands pose a problem.
If you run through Bugzilla and this list I think you'd find that the
vast majority of current users are
Richard
On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Pros need pro tools, and even hobbysts aspire to professional-
looking results. A strategy that appeals to the high end will
appeal to both.
Ultimately, that's probably true. It's another way of saying
Inventive Users
You put your finger on it for me, Richard. I developed a detailed
strategy for doing just this for another company (one that's no
longer in business, not because they adopted my proposal) and have
shared that with RunRev privately. There is a model I believe would
work but it requires
Here, here! Bravo! Well-done and badly needed.
On Nov 26, 2005, at 1:56 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Thank you, Jacque, for having the vision and perseverence to pull
that off, and the attention to detail to do it so well.
~~
Dan Shafer, Information
Scott Rossi wrote:
Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
bounced virus email messages. Of course I did not initiate any of the
original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server notices
as a result of virus propagation.
I am routinely
From: Scott Rossi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [OT] Handling Returned Virus Mail
Over the last week I've been inundated (yet again) with a tidal wave of
bounced virus email messages. Of course I did not initiate any of the
original messages -- I'm receiving the bounced attempts and server
That's a wonderful sentiment and a princely idea, Michael. But it
would pose a serious administrative nightmare, particularly for
software downloaded over the Net where you can't even know where the
buyer resides!
I have on more than one occasion made one of my products available to
I agree, Alex, but they remain two separate products. Last I checked,
you can't buy Elements and then get credit for an upgrade to Photoshop.
In that way, they are similar to Apple's iMovie-Final Cut Pro and
GarageBand-Logic Pro product mixes.
On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:35 PM, Alex Tweedly
Frank...
On Nov 26, 2005, at 2:40 PM, Frank R wrote:
But, seeing how much dialog this generated, I really I wish I
never started
the thread. :)
Why? This kind of dialog is helpful and meaningful and for a lot of
us who develop in Rev, this is the only place we can discuss such
Scott
And I thought mac users were not affected by window viruses ;)
We get 80K viruses or spam hits a day at work... and the percentage of spam
hits is alluring! Virii are not negligent either...
Here's a few rules:
Virii:
Attachments, JavaScripts
Not sent to you
from address doesn't match
As the author of the work in question, I'm probably not entirely
objective, but my *hope* is that my book is a lot more like an
O'Reilly title than it is a walkthrough of the IDE. In fact, it
doesn't even include an IDE walk-through.
OTOH, it is certainly not for the experienced
Chipp
I would have agreed until the last two revs. I am not personally
acquainted with the situation, but several friends of mine who teach
and study multimedia development at our local university have
complained bitterly to me in the past year about how MM has made
development in
Really? Man, I knew that guy when he was at Macromedia. I can't
remember his name off hand, but that's a startling story.
Dan
On Nov 26, 2005, at 8:26 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
Richard Gaskin wrote:
Gray Matter used to be that source, but they closed their doors
many years ago, and today
Judy
Wow.
Would you believe this?
I've owned a GraphicConverter license for years and I never knew it
could create or modify graphics. All I've ever used it for is
converting from one format to another!
::Sound of open palm smiting forehead::
I just opened it and I actually think I
Dan Shafer wrote:
I maintain that without a significant improvement in the out-of-the- box
experience for DC, the company will never reach broad enough appeal to
reach critical mass among the Inventive User marketplace.
One can hope.
Another reason the readers of this list are glad I have
Dan Shafer wrote regarding Flash:
I would have agreed until the last two revs. I am not personally
acquainted with the situation, but several friends of mine who teach
and study multimedia development at our local university have
complained bitterly to me in the past year about how MM has
I too still cherish my Lemke CD - I should frame it!
Best shareware out there for graphics...
For the story, thanks to GraphickConverter I translated some thousands of
images from my mac to my PC, including icons or to ico format.
PowerFull Tool - paint tools where not as nice as Adobe's
The current thread on how Rev should be priced and marketed led to
several people -- one here on the list and a few others in private
communication -- asking me for my views on the subject because I
mentioned I had studied this kind of market several years ago for a
defunct client.
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