Re: Has anyone deployed a production cluster with less than 6 nodes per DC?

[Ney, Richard]

Everyone, thank you for the responses

Jon, to answer your question we’re using the General Purpose SSD with IOPS of 
1500/3000 so based on your definition I guess we’re using the awful ones since 
they aren’t provisioned IOPS. We’re also trying G1 garbage collection.

I also just looked at our application setting overrides and it appears we are 
using CL=ONE with RF=2 on both of the DCs. We’ve also disabled durable writes 
as shown in the keyspace creation statement below


-  CREATE KEYSPACE reporting WITH replication = {'class': 
'NetworkTopologyStrategy', 'us-east_dc1': '2', 'us-east_dc2': '2'}  AND 
durable_writes = false;

The main table we’re interacting with has these settings for compaction (These 
are Akka persistence journal tables)

compaction = {'bucket_high': '1.5', 'bucket_low': '0.5', 'class': 
'org.apache.cassandra.db.compaction.SizeTieredCompactionStrategy', 'enabled': 
'true', 'max_threshold': '32', 'min_sstable_size': '50', 'min_threshold': '4', 
'tombstone_compaction_interval': '86400', 'tombstone_threshold': '0.2', 
'unchecked_tombstone_compaction': 'false'}

We’re also planning to set a TTL of about 3 hours on the table since we’re 
using these tables for business continuity so we don’t need the data to persist 
for long periods.

RICHARD NEY
TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
+1 (978) 848.6640 WORK
+1 (916) 846.2353 MOBILE
UNITED STATES
richard@aspect.com
aspect.com

[mailSigLogo-rev.jpg]

From: Jonathan Haddad 
Reply-To: "user@cassandra.apache.org" 
Date: Monday, December 26, 2016 at 2:02 PM
To: "user@cassandra.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: Has anyone deployed a production cluster with less than 6 nodes 
per DC?

There's nothing wrong with running a 3 node DC.  A million writes an hour is 
averaging less than 300 writes a second, which is pretty trivial.

Are you running provisioned SSD EBS volumes or the traditional, awful ones?

RF=2 with Quorum is kind of pointless, that's the same as CL=ALL.  Not 
recommended.  I don't know why your timeouts are happening, but when they do, 
RF=2 w/ QUORUM is going to make the problem worse.  Either use RF=3 or use 
CL=ONE.

Your management is correct here.  Throwing more hardware at this problem is the 
wrong solution given that your current hardware should be able to handle over 
100x what it's doing right now.

Jon
This email (including any attachments) is proprietary to Aspect Software, Inc. 
and may contain information that is confidential. If you have received this 
message in error, please do not read, copy or forward this message. Please 
notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and destroy any 
copies. You may not further disclose or distribute this email or its 
attachments.

Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?

[Jonathan Haddad]

> I dont mean to say JVM shouldn't be in hands of large entity but rather
If it was in the hands of companies like Google or Microsoft or say
DataStax I would have been more happy :)

Considering DataStax just announced they are pulling back from open source
Cassandra and are focusing on their DataStax enterprise product instead, I
would strongly disagree.

http://www.datastax.com/2016/11/serving-customers-serving-the-community

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 2:24 PM Kant Kodali  wrote:

> The observations that James Gosling did aren't just relevant in the year
> 2010 but rather he expressed Oracle's DNA. He clearly expressed how the
> upper management in that company works. And even today it works the same
> way starting from decades ago.
> If you know a character of someone you can predict what he or she would
> do. And in that video Gosling more or less described the character of
> Oracle!
>
> I dont mean to say JVM shouldn't be in hands of large entity but rather If
> it was in the hands of companies like Google or Microsoft or say DataStax I
> would have been more happy :)
>
> Above all, I love JVM and the work of many smart people that are behind.
> I do wish Java 9 takes off really well with the module system where
> containerized deployments
>
>
> Google and andriod (j++--) ??? I don't even about j++-- existence. any
> links? I tried a quick google search but couldn't find anything.
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Brice Dutheil 
> wrote:
>
> A note on this video from the respected James Gosling, is that it is from
> 2010, when Oracle was new to the Java stewardship ecosystem. The company
> came a long since. I'm not saying everything is perfect. But I doubt that a
> product such as the JVM will be as good without a company guidance.
>
> The module system is interesting and is good thing regardless of the
> Oracle features. Having AWT classes for a server always annoyed me, for IoT
> as well. I'm really excited about Java 9.
>
>
> -- Brice
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Edward Capriolo 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>
> @Edward Agreed JVM is awesome and it is a work of many smart people and
> this is obvious if one looks into the JDK code. But given Oracle history of
> business practices and other decisions it is a bit hard to convince oneself
> that everything is going to be OK and that they actually care about open
> source. Even the module system that they are trying to come up with is
> something that motivated by the problem they have faced internally.
>
> To reiterate again just watch this video
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ei-rbULWoA
>
> My statements are not solely based on this video but I certainly would
> give good weight for James Gosling.
>
> I tend to think that Oracle has not closed Java because they know that
> cant get money from users because these days not many people are willing to
> pay even for distributed databases so I don't think anyone would pay for
> programming language. In short, Let me end by saying Oracle just has lot of
> self interest but I really hope that I am wrong since I am a big fan of JVM.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Edward Capriolo 
> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>
> Java 9 Module system looks really interesting. I would be very curious to
> see how Cassandra would leverage that.
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>
> I would agree with Eric with his following statement. In fact, I was
> trying to say the same thing.
>
> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is a
> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
> implicit dependency)."
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Brice Dutheil 
> wrote:
>
> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>
> Clickbait imho. Search ‘The Register’ in this wikipedia page
> 
>
> @Ben Manes
>
> Agreed, OpenJDK and Oracle JDK are now pretty close, but there is still
> some differences in the VM code and third party dependencies like security
> libraries. Maybe that’s fine for some productions, but maybe not for
> everyone.
>
> Also another thing, while OpenJDK source is available to all, I don’t
> think all OpenJDK builds have been certified with the TCK. For example the
> Zulu OpenJDK is, as Azul have access to the TCK and certifies
>  the builds. Another example OpenJDK
> build installed on RHEL is certified
> . Canonical probably is
> running TCK comliance tests as well on thei OpenJDK 8 since they are listed
> on the signatories
> 

Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?

[Kant Kodali]

The observations that James Gosling did aren't just relevant in the year
2010 but rather he expressed Oracle's DNA. He clearly expressed how the
upper management in that company works. And even today it works the same
way starting from decades ago.
If you know a character of someone you can predict what he or she would do.
And in that video Gosling more or less described the character of Oracle!

I dont mean to say JVM shouldn't be in hands of large entity but rather If
it was in the hands of companies like Google or Microsoft or say DataStax I
would have been more happy :)

Above all, I love JVM and the work of many smart people that are behind.  I
do wish Java 9 takes off really well with the module system where
containerized deployments


Google and andriod (j++--) ??? I don't even about j++-- existence. any
links? I tried a quick google search but couldn't find anything.

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Brice Dutheil 
wrote:

> A note on this video from the respected James Gosling, is that it is from
> 2010, when Oracle was new to the Java stewardship ecosystem. The company
> came a long since. I'm not saying everything is perfect. But I doubt that a
> product such as the JVM will be as good without a company guidance.
>
> The module system is interesting and is good thing regardless of the
> Oracle features. Having AWT classes for a server always annoyed me, for IoT
> as well. I'm really excited about Java 9.
>
>
> -- Brice
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Edward Capriolo 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>>
>>> @Edward Agreed JVM is awesome and it is a work of many smart people and
>>> this is obvious if one looks into the JDK code. But given Oracle history of
>>> business practices and other decisions it is a bit hard to convince oneself
>>> that everything is going to be OK and that they actually care about open
>>> source. Even the module system that they are trying to come up with is
>>> something that motivated by the problem they have faced internally.
>>>
>>> To reiterate again just watch this video https://www.youtube.com/
>>> watch?v=9ei-rbULWoA
>>>
>>> My statements are not solely based on this video but I certainly would
>>> give good weight for James Gosling.
>>>
>>> I tend to think that Oracle has not closed Java because they know that
>>> cant get money from users because these days not many people are willing to
>>> pay even for distributed databases so I don't think anyone would pay for
>>> programming language. In short, Let me end by saying Oracle just has lot of
>>> self interest but I really hope that I am wrong since I am a big fan of JVM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Edward Capriolo 
>>> wrote:
>>>

 On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:

> Java 9 Module system looks really interesting. I would be very curious
> to see how Cassandra would leverage that.
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Kant Kodali 
> wrote:
>
>> I would agree with Eric with his following statement. In fact, I was
>> trying to say the same thing.
>>
>> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra
>> is a
>> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
>> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
>> implicit dependency)."
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Brice Dutheil <
>> brice.duth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>>
>>> Clickbait imho. Search ‘The Register’ in this wikipedia page
>>> 
>>>
>>> @Ben Manes
>>>
>>> Agreed, OpenJDK and Oracle JDK are now pretty close, but there is
>>> still some differences in the VM code and third party dependencies like
>>> security libraries. Maybe that’s fine for some productions, but maybe 
>>> not
>>> for everyone.
>>>
>>> Also another thing, while OpenJDK source is available to all, I
>>> don’t think all OpenJDK builds have been certified with the TCK. For
>>> example the Zulu OpenJDK is, as Azul have access to the TCK and
>>> certifies  the builds. Another
>>> example OpenJDK build installed on RHEL is certified
>>> . Canonical probably is
>>> running TCK comliance tests as well on thei OpenJDK 8 since they are 
>>> listed
>>> on the signatories
>>> 
>>> but not sure as I couldn’t find evidence on this; on this signatories 
>>> list
>>> again there’s an individual – Emmanuel Bourg – who is related to
>>> Debian 

Re: Has anyone deployed a production cluster with less than 6 nodes per DC?

[Harikrishnan Pillai]

1 million write per hour is around 250 writes per second .its easily achievable 
with 3 nodes .make sure that you have a good gc tuning and compaction tunings.

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 26, 2016, at 1:27 PM, Ney, Richard 
> wrote:

My company has a product we're about to deploy into AWS with Cassandra setup as 
a two 3 node clusters in two availability zones (m4.2xlarge with 2 500GB EBS 
volumes per node). We're doing over a million writes per hour with the cluster 
setup with R-2 and local quorum writes. We run successfully for several hours 
before Cassandra goes into the weeds and we start getting write timeouts to the 
point we must kill the Cassandra JVM processes to get the Cassandra cluster to 
restart. I keep raising to my upper management that the cluster is severely 
undersized but management is complaining that setting up 12 nodes is too 
expensive and to change the code to reduce load on Cassandra.

So, the main question is "Is there any hope of success with a 3 node DC setup 
of Cassandra in production or are we on a fool's errand?"

RICHARD NEY
TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
+1 (978) 848.6640 WORK
+1 (916) 846.2353 MOBILE
UNITED STATES
richard@aspect.com
aspect.com

[mailSigLogo-rev.jpg]
This email (including any attachments) is proprietary to Aspect Software, Inc. 
and may contain information that is confidential. If you have received this 
message in error, please do not read, copy or forward this message. Please 
notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and destroy any 
copies. You may not further disclose or distribute this email or its 
attachments.

Re: Has anyone deployed a production cluster with less than 6 nodes per DC?

[Jonathan Haddad]

There's nothing wrong with running a 3 node DC.  A million writes an hour
is averaging less than 300 writes a second, which is pretty trivial.

Are you running provisioned SSD EBS volumes or the traditional, awful ones?


RF=2 with Quorum is kind of pointless, that's the same as CL=ALL.  Not
recommended.  I don't know why your timeouts are happening, but when they
do, RF=2 w/ QUORUM is going to make the problem worse.  Either use RF=3 or
use CL=ONE.

Your management is correct here.  Throwing more hardware at this problem is
the wrong solution given that your current hardware should be able to
handle over 100x what it's doing right now.

Jon

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 1:28 PM Carlos Rolo  wrote:

> It depends on a lot of factors.
>
> What causes the cluster to get crazy? I/O, Network, CPU?
>
> I manage clusters of all sizes (even 3 nodes per DC) but it all depends on
> usage and configuration.
>
> Regards,
>
> Carlos
>
> Regards,
>
> Carlos Juzarte Rolo
> Cassandra Consultant / Datastax Certified Architect / Cassandra MVP
>
> Pythian - Love your data
>
> rolo@pythian | Twitter: @cjrolo | Skype: cjr2k3 | Linkedin:
> *linkedin.com/in/carlosjuzarterolo
> *
> Mobile: +351 918 918 100 <+351%20918%20918%20100>
> www.pythian.com
>
> On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Ney, Richard 
> wrote:
>
> My company has a product we’re about to deploy into AWS with Cassandra
> setup as a two 3 node clusters in two availability zones (m4.2xlarge with 2
> 500GB EBS volumes per node). We’re doing over a million writes per hour
> with the cluster setup with R-2 and local quorum writes. We run
> successfully for several hours before Cassandra goes into the weeds and we
> start getting write timeouts to the point we must kill the Cassandra JVM
> processes to get the Cassandra cluster to restart. I keep raising to my
> upper management that the cluster is severely undersized but management is
> complaining that setting up 12 nodes is too expensive and to change the
> code to reduce load on Cassandra.
>
>
>
> So, the main question is “Is there any hope of success with a 3 node DC
> setup of Cassandra in production or are we on a fool’s errand?”
>
>
>
> *RICHARD NEY*
>
> TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
>
> *+1 (978) 848.6640 <+1%20978-848-6640>* WORK
>
> *+1 (916) 846.2353 <+1%20916-846-2353> *MOBILE
>
> *UNITED STATES*
>
> *richard@aspect.com *
>
> *aspect.com *
>
>
>
> [image: mailSigLogo-rev.jpg]
> This email (including any attachments) is proprietary to Aspect Software,
> Inc. and may contain information that is confidential. If you have received
> this message in error, please do not read, copy or forward this message.
> Please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and
> destroy any copies. You may not further disclose or distribute this email
> or its attachments.
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>

Re: Has anyone deployed a production cluster with less than 6 nodes per DC?

[Carlos Rolo]

It depends on a lot of factors.

What causes the cluster to get crazy? I/O, Network, CPU?

I manage clusters of all sizes (even 3 nodes per DC) but it all depends on
usage and configuration.

Regards,

Carlos

Regards,

Carlos Juzarte Rolo
Cassandra Consultant / Datastax Certified Architect / Cassandra MVP

Pythian - Love your data

rolo@pythian | Twitter: @cjrolo | Skype: cjr2k3 | Linkedin:
*linkedin.com/in/carlosjuzarterolo
*
Mobile: +351 918 918 100
www.pythian.com

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 9:26 PM, Ney, Richard 
wrote:

> My company has a product we’re about to deploy into AWS with Cassandra
> setup as a two 3 node clusters in two availability zones (m4.2xlarge with 2
> 500GB EBS volumes per node). We’re doing over a million writes per hour
> with the cluster setup with R-2 and local quorum writes. We run
> successfully for several hours before Cassandra goes into the weeds and we
> start getting write timeouts to the point we must kill the Cassandra JVM
> processes to get the Cassandra cluster to restart. I keep raising to my
> upper management that the cluster is severely undersized but management is
> complaining that setting up 12 nodes is too expensive and to change the
> code to reduce load on Cassandra.
>
>
>
> So, the main question is “Is there any hope of success with a 3 node DC
> setup of Cassandra in production or are we on a fool’s errand?”
>
>
>
> *RICHARD NEY*
>
> TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
>
> *+1 (978) 848.6640 <+1%20978-848-6640>* WORK
>
> *+1 (916) 846.2353 <+1%20916-846-2353> *MOBILE
>
> *UNITED STATES*
>
> *richard@aspect.com *
>
> *aspect.com *
>
>
>
> [image: mailSigLogo-rev.jpg]
> This email (including any attachments) is proprietary to Aspect Software,
> Inc. and may contain information that is confidential. If you have received
> this message in error, please do not read, copy or forward this message.
> Please notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and
> destroy any copies. You may not further disclose or distribute this email
> or its attachments.
>

-- 


--

Has anyone deployed a production cluster with less than 6 nodes per DC?

[Ney, Richard]

My company has a product we’re about to deploy into AWS with Cassandra setup as 
a two 3 node clusters in two availability zones (m4.2xlarge with 2 500GB EBS 
volumes per node). We’re doing over a million writes per hour with the cluster 
setup with R-2 and local quorum writes. We run successfully for several hours 
before Cassandra goes into the weeds and we start getting write timeouts to the 
point we must kill the Cassandra JVM processes to get the Cassandra cluster to 
restart. I keep raising to my upper management that the cluster is severely 
undersized but management is complaining that setting up 12 nodes is too 
expensive and to change the code to reduce load on Cassandra.

So, the main question is “Is there any hope of success with a 3 node DC setup 
of Cassandra in production or are we on a fool’s errand?”

RICHARD NEY
TECHNICAL DIRECTOR, RESEARCH & DEVELOPMENT
+1 (978) 848.6640 WORK
+1 (916) 846.2353 MOBILE
UNITED STATES
richard@aspect.com
aspect.com

[mailSigLogo-rev.jpg]
This email (including any attachments) is proprietary to Aspect Software, Inc. 
and may contain information that is confidential. If you have received this 
message in error, please do not read, copy or forward this message. Please 
notify the sender immediately, delete it from your system and destroy any 
copies. You may not further disclose or distribute this email or its 
attachments.

Re: Openstack and Cassandra

[Romain Hardouin]

Hi Shalom,
I assume you'll use KVM virtualization so pay attention to your stack at every 
level:- Nova e.g. CPU pinning, NUMA awareness if relevant, etc. Have a look to 
extra specs.- libvirt - KVM- QEMU
You can also be interested by resources quota on other OpenStack VMs that will 
be colocated with C* VMs.Don't forget to define anti-affinity rules in order to 
spread out your C* VMs on different hosts.Finally, watch out versions of 
libvirt/KVM/QEMU. Some optimizations/bugs are good to know.
Out of curiosity, which OpenStack release are you using?You can be interested 
by Trove but C* support is for testing only.
Best,
Romain



   

Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?

[Brice Dutheil]

A note on this video from the respected James Gosling, is that it is from
2010, when Oracle was new to the Java stewardship ecosystem. The company
came a long since. I'm not saying everything is perfect. But I doubt that a
product such as the JVM will be as good without a company guidance.

The module system is interesting and is good thing regardless of the Oracle
features. Having AWT classes for a server always annoyed me, for IoT as
well. I'm really excited about Java 9.


-- Brice

On Mon, Dec 26, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Edward Capriolo 
wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>
>> @Edward Agreed JVM is awesome and it is a work of many smart people and
>> this is obvious if one looks into the JDK code. But given Oracle history of
>> business practices and other decisions it is a bit hard to convince oneself
>> that everything is going to be OK and that they actually care about open
>> source. Even the module system that they are trying to come up with is
>> something that motivated by the problem they have faced internally.
>>
>> To reiterate again just watch this video https://www.youtube.com/
>> watch?v=9ei-rbULWoA
>>
>> My statements are not solely based on this video but I certainly would
>> give good weight for James Gosling.
>>
>> I tend to think that Oracle has not closed Java because they know that
>> cant get money from users because these days not many people are willing to
>> pay even for distributed databases so I don't think anyone would pay for
>> programming language. In short, Let me end by saying Oracle just has lot of
>> self interest but I really hope that I am wrong since I am a big fan of JVM.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Edward Capriolo 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>>>
 Java 9 Module system looks really interesting. I would be very curious
 to see how Cassandra would leverage that.

 On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:

> I would agree with Eric with his following statement. In fact, I was
> trying to say the same thing.
>
> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is
> a
> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
> implicit dependency)."
>
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Brice Dutheil <
> brice.duth...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>
>> Clickbait imho. Search ‘The Register’ in this wikipedia page
>> 
>>
>> @Ben Manes
>>
>> Agreed, OpenJDK and Oracle JDK are now pretty close, but there is
>> still some differences in the VM code and third party dependencies like
>> security libraries. Maybe that’s fine for some productions, but maybe not
>> for everyone.
>>
>> Also another thing, while OpenJDK source is available to all, I don’t
>> think all OpenJDK builds have been certified with the TCK. For example 
>> the
>> Zulu OpenJDK is, as Azul have access to the TCK and certifies
>>  the builds. Another example
>> OpenJDK build installed on RHEL is certified
>> . Canonical probably is
>> running TCK comliance tests as well on thei OpenJDK 8 since they are 
>> listed
>> on the signatories
>> 
>> but not sure as I couldn’t find evidence on this; on this signatories 
>> list
>> again there’s an individual – Emmanuel Bourg – who is related to
>> Debian  (
>> linkedin ), but not sure again
>> the TCK is passed for each build.
>>
>> Bad OpenJDK intermediary builds, i.e without TCK compliance tests, is
>> a reality
>> 
>> .
>>
>> While the situation has enhanced over the past months I’ll still
>> double check before using any OpenJDK builds.
>> ​
>>
>> -- Brice
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Voytek Jarnot <
>> voytek.jar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Reading that article the only conclusion I can reach (unless I'm
>>> misreading) is that all the stuff that was never free is still not free 
>>> -
>>> the change is that Oracle may actually be interested in the fact that 
>>> some
>>> are using non-free products for free.
>>>
>>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Kant Kodali 

Re: Why does Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM instead of OpenJDK?

[Edward Capriolo]

On Sat, Dec 24, 2016 at 5:58 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:

> @Edward Agreed JVM is awesome and it is a work of many smart people and
> this is obvious if one looks into the JDK code. But given Oracle history of
> business practices and other decisions it is a bit hard to convince oneself
> that everything is going to be OK and that they actually care about open
> source. Even the module system that they are trying to come up with is
> something that motivated by the problem they have faced internally.
>
> To reiterate again just watch this video https://www.youtube.com/
> watch?v=9ei-rbULWoA
>
> My statements are not solely based on this video but I certainly would
> give good weight for James Gosling.
>
> I tend to think that Oracle has not closed Java because they know that
> cant get money from users because these days not many people are willing to
> pay even for distributed databases so I don't think anyone would pay for
> programming language. In short, Let me end by saying Oracle just has lot of
> self interest but I really hope that I am wrong since I am a big fan of JVM.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 7:15 PM, Edward Capriolo 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 23, 2016 at 6:01 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>>
>>> Java 9 Module system looks really interesting. I would be very curious
>>> to see how Cassandra would leverage that.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 9:09 AM, Kant Kodali  wrote:
>>>
 I would agree with Eric with his following statement. In fact, I was
 trying to say the same thing.

 "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is a
 Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
 commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
 implicit dependency)."

 On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 3:09 AM, Brice Dutheil  wrote:

> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>
> Clickbait imho. Search ‘The Register’ in this wikipedia page
> 
>
> @Ben Manes
>
> Agreed, OpenJDK and Oracle JDK are now pretty close, but there is
> still some differences in the VM code and third party dependencies like
> security libraries. Maybe that’s fine for some productions, but maybe not
> for everyone.
>
> Also another thing, while OpenJDK source is available to all, I don’t
> think all OpenJDK builds have been certified with the TCK. For example the
> Zulu OpenJDK is, as Azul have access to the TCK and certifies
>  the builds. Another example
> OpenJDK build installed on RHEL is certified
> . Canonical probably is
> running TCK comliance tests as well on thei OpenJDK 8 since they are 
> listed
> on the signatories
> 
> but not sure as I couldn’t find evidence on this; on this signatories list
> again there’s an individual – Emmanuel Bourg – who is related to
> Debian  (
> linkedin ), but not sure again
> the TCK is passed for each build.
>
> Bad OpenJDK intermediary builds, i.e without TCK compliance tests, is
> a reality
> 
> .
>
> While the situation has enhanced over the past months I’ll still
> double check before using any OpenJDK builds.
> ​
>
> -- Brice
>
> On Wed, Dec 21, 2016 at 5:08 PM, Voytek Jarnot <
> voytek.jar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Reading that article the only conclusion I can reach (unless I'm
>> misreading) is that all the stuff that was never free is still not free -
>> the change is that Oracle may actually be interested in the fact that 
>> some
>> are using non-free products for free.
>>
>> Pretty much a non-story, it seems like.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:55 PM, Kant Kodali 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking at this http://www.theregister.co
>>> .uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/?mt=
>>> 1481919461669 I don't know why Cassandra recommends Oracle JVM?
>>>
>>> JVM is a great piece of software but I would like to stay away from
>>> Oracle as much as possible. Oracle is just horrible the way they are
>>> dealing with Java in General.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

>>>
>> "I don't really have any opinions on Oracle per say, but Cassandra is a
>> Free Software project and I would prefer that we not depend on
>> commercial software, (and that's kind of what we have here, an
>> implicit dependency)."
>>
>> We are a bit