On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 15:40 -0700, Michael Jouravlev wrote:
On 5/12/05, Leon Rosenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe I'm repeating myself, but I give myself a last try :-)
I'm a beliefer of design by responsibility. When I design an
application I identify responsibilities to form and
On 5/13/05, Leon Rosenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It would also be cool if you could give a short comparison to common
design methods, like OOD/COD with AOA, SOA and MDA.
:) Oooh ... acronyms! :)
:) That rock band idea is sounding better and better ... :)
-Ted.
Why would you want to trade our beautiful java world acronyms for other ones
like MP3, OGG, WMA, RIAA, MPAA or SABAM (in belgium)
Ok 2 more hours then it's the really interesting part of the friday: traffic
to get back home from the capital when trains are in strike. Cheers.
Le Vendredi 13
Hey,
I played clarinet 10 years ago... is there space for me? :0
Regards
marco
-Original Message-
From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 May 2005 12:27
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: [FRIDAY] Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
On 5/13/05
#4 ..
#1 - so I generate them from my POJOs using XDoclet. All the other
frameworks I use (JSF, Spring, Tapestry and WebWork) allow me to use
my
POJOs directly.
Matt
On May 11, 2005, at 4:02 PM, Michael Jouravlev wrote:
Turns out, that my way of using action forms differs from
#4
On 5/12/05, Marco Mistroni [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
#4 ..
#1 - so I generate them from my POJOs using XDoclet. All the other
frameworks I use (JSF, Spring, Tapestry and WebWork) allow me to use
my
POJOs directly.
Matt
On May 11, 2005, at 4:02 PM, Michael Jouravlev wrote:
#4
-Original Message-
From: Marco Mistroni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May 2005 09:05
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
#4 ..
#1 - so I generate them from my POJOs using XDoclet. All the other
frameworks I use (JSF, Spring
To all of the #4 voter.
Can you bring in an example?
I mean what exactly do you show on the output page?
thanx
Leon
-Original Message-
From: Marco Mistroni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May 2005 09:05
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use
to display
regards
marco
-Original Message-
From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May 2005 09:42
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
To all of the #4 voter.
Can you bring in an example?
I mean what exactly do
' answer as it's the most useful.
Allistair.
-Original Message-
From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May 2005 09:42
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
To all of the #4 voter.
Can you bring in an example?
I mean
]
Sent: 12 May 2005 09:49
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
Hello,
In output page I just display actionform properties..
For example, @work, I display actionform properties after a search, or
after an update
@home, now that I realize
pretty much what is on the input form. :)
eg: a search form would return the same search form with the set
parameters. the result i pass as a Collection in Request
imho, in a lot of the cases (mostly simple) it is just not worth the
effort to do a separation of input and output ActionForm 's
do you use action forms for?
pretty much what is on the input form. :)
eg: a search form would return the same search form with the set
parameters. the result i pass as a Collection in Request
imho, in a lot of the cases (mostly simple) it is just not worth the
effort to do
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
To all of the #4 voter.
Can you bring in an example?
I mean what exactly do you show on the output page?
thanx
Leon
-Original Message-
From: Marco Mistroni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May
indeed. i was giving a simple example. it can well be an data insert
form (where validation is required) - with some appropriate
message/result returned with it.
it is quite easy to use the same actionform for input/output
riyaz
Allistair Crossley wrote:
well for a search form, it's not like
;)
-Original Message-
From: Leon Rosenberg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May 2005 10:16
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
Sorry, but you described #2 and not #4.
On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 09:49 +0100, Allistair Crossley wrote
My question would be:
* Under this poll how does the Struts MailReader application use ActionForms?
I would think the essential question is whether people use ActionForms to
1) Harvest or populate only the default values of form controls.
2) Populate other page members, such as the items
Some of you needs a struts mentor ;-)
You use display any bean or collection in struts, if it's RO, you don't
use formBeans and you use JSTL/displaytag.
If you edit, update, insert, etc, you have to use and map a form bean
and html tag.
Often do I see a formBean mapped on a page that only
So you use #2? :)
Pedro Salgado
On 12/05/2005 14:40, Vic Cekvenich (netsql) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Some of you needs a struts mentor ;-)
You use display any bean or collection in struts, if it's RO, you don't
use formBeans and you use JSTL/displaytag.
If you edit, update, insert, etc,
Well, your option 1) matched the #2
and
2) matched the #4
:)
Pedro Salgado
#1 Prefer not to use action forms at all
#2 For input data only (usually collected from HTML form)
#3 For output only (to be used in JSP)
#4 Same form for input and output
#5 One form for input, another for output
]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 4:05 AM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
#4 ..
#1 - so I generate them from my POJOs using XDoclet. All the other
frameworks I use (JSF, Spring, Tapestry and WebWork) allow me to use
my
POJOs directly
On 5/12/05, Pedro Salgado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, your option 1) matched the #2
and
2) matched the #4
:)
Pedro Salgado
It might be helpfult to clarify whether by output we mean output that
is being used within the html:form tags, or any arbitrary dynamic
output.
The intended
: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:21 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
On 5/12/05, Pedro Salgado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, your option 1) matched the #2
and
2) matched the #4
:)
Pedro Salgado
It might be helpfult to clarify whether
I've always felt the ActionForm had become something that wasn't
originally intended... I personally use it as something that applies to a
PAGE and not just a form, so it becomes an I/O object for me in the truest
sense.
I love the idea of something like a Velocity-type context. Before I came
to
I've been starting to read up on Spring and I am sure it handles the same BOs
in the view/model/dao tiers.
-Original Message-
From: Frank W. Zammetti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 12 May 2005 15:34
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms
On 12/05/2005 16:34, Frank W. Zammetti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've always felt the ActionForm had become something that wasn't
originally intended... I personally use it as something that applies to a
PAGE and not just a form, so it becomes an I/O object for me in the truest
sense.
So you
#4 Same form for input and output
Vincent
--
Plato is my friend, Aristotle is my friend, but my greatest friend is truth.
- Isaac Newton
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On Thu, 2005-05-12 at 17:07 +0200, Pedro Salgado wrote:
So you mean, on your actionform you use:
The html form attributes + (this is what I understand for input)
The collections needed to present combo/list boxes (and other options) (this
is what I understand for output)
I don't think #2
You raise a good point, but I think there is something to be said for
keeping class count down and keeping those UML diagrams less cluttered.
It's a balancing act, that would be my contention. I never like saying
one approach is bad or improper, because inevitably someone can come
up with an
#2 only.
Michael Jouravlev wrote the following on 5/11/2005 6:02 PM:
What is your preferred way to use action forms?
#1 Prefer not to use action forms at all
#2 For input data only (usually collected from HTML form)
#3 For output only (to be used in JSP)
#4 Same form for input and output
#5 One
Whew! Thank you all for responses. I am sorry that I confuse some of
you. Now I kind of got confused myself, because there are some usages
I did not even thought of :)
First, the things that I can state for sure.
* I started to use Struts when I had rather vague knowledge about
servlets/JSPs, so
But #5 is better in this regard, is not it? ;) Do you think #5 is worse than #2?
On 5/12/05, Leon Rosenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As you see, you don't need the BookForm to present a Book, since you
need other properties for presentation, as for editing.
So if you are working with scenario
Oops, I don't know why did I mention going back again. I guess, I am
too fixated on that. I am sorry.
Anyway, just to reiterate, I have a current object in the session.
Current means currenty being used whatever that means for you.
Object has an ID. I pass this ID to any action which uses this
if we would keep _EVERYTHING_
in session, what amount of ram the server would need?
Regards
Leon
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2005 19:20
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [POLL] What do you use action
if we would keep _EVERYTHING_
in session, what amount of ram the server would need?
Regards
Leon
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2005 19:20
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [POLL] What do you use action
]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:20 PM
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'; 'Michael Jouravlev'
Subject: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
Well the question was, why to use ActionForm if a POJO will do it es well?
And keeping current object in session isn't a solution to all problems
Benedict, Paul C wrote the following on 5/12/2005 3:25 PM:
My biggest problem with session based forms is that, without a special
mechanism, it prevents multiple instances of a form from being edited at
once within a session.
Not really, because I can just call form.reset() (or assign the
Rick, what do you mean? It sounds like you have an answer.
-Original Message-
From: Rick Reumann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 3:38 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
Benedict, Paul C wrote the following on 5
On 5/12/05, Leon Rosenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well the question was, why to use ActionForm if a POJO will do it es well?
Umm... No reason, unless one wants to use same ActionForm for input,
edit, view, etc.
And keeping current object in session isn't a solution to all problems...
Just
Michael Jouravlev wrote:
P.S. If a problem can be solved by adding more RAM, it is not a real
problem ;) This is what Microsoft keeps proving with Windows: 640K,
1M, 4M, 16M, 64M... But people still use it, they just put more memory
in their machines. Someone can still advertise OS which fits on
70mb might not be much on a single server, but move to a clustered
environment and you might be in for some rude surprises...
Remember replication across the cluster... while 10k per session might not
be much, 5000-7000 sessions constantly replicating 10k across the cluster
could become an issue
Maybe I'm repeating myself, but I give myself a last try :-)
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2005 21:43
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
On 5/12/05, Leon
Maybe I'm repeating myself, but I give myself a last try :-)
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2005 21:43
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
On 5/12/05, Leon
On 5/12/05, Leon Rosenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Maybe I'm repeating myself, but I give myself a last try :-)
I'm a beliefer of design by responsibility. When I design an
application I identify responsibilities to form and define components,
modules and layers. Therefore I like each class
I updated the online poll with information from the mailing list. I
tried my best to recognize your choices when they were not clear ;)
Anyway, after 53 emails and about 15 direct online votes the grand
total looks like this:
http://jmikus.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/pollresults/001
#1 -- 5
#2 -- 10
Turns out, that my way of using action forms differs from many other
Struts users' habits. So, I am wondering how do you use action forms.
I could not find the same poll in mailing list archives, so I am
starting this one.
You can answer here in the thread, or in the poll form, which I
created on
#2 :)
#1 if possible too (means, if I'm too lazy to go for number 2)
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2005 00:03
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
Turns out
#2 :)
#1 if possible too (means, if I'm too lazy to go for number 2)
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Michael Jouravlev [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 12. Mai 2005 00:03
An: Struts Users Mailing List
Betreff: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
Turns out
#4
So (out of interest) how are you using action forms?
Jonathan Wright
- Original Message -
From: Matt Raible [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Struts Users Mailing List user@struts.apache.org
Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [POLL] What do you use action forms for?
#1 - so I
#4 The same action form for both input and output.
On 5/11/05, Michael Jouravlev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Turns out, that my way of using action forms differs from many other
Struts users' habits. So, I am wondering how do you use action forms.
I could not find the same poll in mailing list
#4 and #5
#4
So (out of interest) how are you using action forms?
What is your preferred way to use action forms?
#1 Prefer not to use action forms at all
#2 For input data only (usually collected from HTML form)
#3 For output only (to be used in JSP)
#4 Same form for input
A related question I've wondered about is whether to store everything a
JSP page needs in the ActionForm. When I first learned Struts, that
seemed like a smart idea -- everything that a page needed was stored in
the one object. Obviously some of the fields would be nested objects.
Now it
Ok Matt, so you still use them, even though you do not create them ;-)
And what do you use those generated forms for?
#1 means that people read input data right from the request, and stick
output data in some bean of theirs, which is not an action form.
On 5/11/05, Matt Raible [EMAIL PROTECTED]
#4
Michael Jouravlev wrote:
Turns out, that my way of using action forms differs from many other
Struts users' habits. So, I am wondering how do you use action forms.
I could not find the same poll in mailing list archives, so I am
starting this one.
You can answer here in the thread, or in the
By the way, hopefully by input and output data we understand the same
information. For example, this wiki page
http://wiki.apache.org/struts/StrutsMultipleActionForms treats data
from a page point of view: Most pages have both input data (setup)
and output data (request name/value pairs). That
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