Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-07 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Clinton Begin wrote: The fact that it currently translates the resultsets into an object model As a matter of fact, it could be argued that /that/ part of iBatis is its /weakness/. That part? That's not a part...that's ALL iBATIS does. If you've misunderstood that, then I'm sorry for our

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-07 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Abdullah Kauchali wrote: BTW, I mean offense or disrespect LOL. I mean *NO* offense or disrespect ... Sheesh, as if the discussion isn't sensitive already! :-D

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-07 Thread Clinton Begin
Vic, For what it's worth, it's the same argument that we'd use against Maps as the domain model, which we've been through (a thread almost as long and tedious as this one). ;-) Obviously there are some significant design philosophy differences at work here. And that's okay. iBATIS is our

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-07 Thread Clinton Begin
If we are going to have support for disconnected rowsets in the future What would be the reasons why you might introduce such a concept in iBatis? I don't know. Personally I see no need. But I am just one person of thousands who use this framework. It will need to be discussed, a case will

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-06 Thread Medium
Hmmm...sounds like a pyramid scam opportunity. Now all you have to do is convince them to pay everyone on the list above them 1 dollar. Except they get to use ibatis which should definitely get them their money back sooner or later. Clinton Begin wrote: But if those two people convert

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-06 Thread Medium
Hi Adib, Thanks for sharing such a detailed account of your experiences. Did you ever run into any problems with the object identity hashCode/equals issue with hibernate. I know the hibernate people keep saying this is a general java issue (which I understand) but I find it a major reason for

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-06 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Clinton Begin wrote: This is really good discussion. I hope you guys help Kim with the FAQ, and post your feature requests to JIRA (I think use iBATIS as a spreadsheet is already in there). ;-) If you mean my JIRA entry, then I agree. But, hey, you started the iBatis is a spreadsheet

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-06 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Alan Chandler wrote: Hang on a sec here, don't we also map Java Classes to database tables with iBatis? A User class in my design maps to a User table in the database. Isn't this exactly how the iBatis docs tell us we should map our result beans? Well a) I was simplifying, but yes we

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-06 Thread Clinton Begin
The fact that it currently translates the resultsets into an object model As a matter of fact, it could be argued that /that/ part of iBatis is its /weakness/. That part? That's not a part...that's ALL iBATIS does. If you've misunderstood that, then I'm sorry for our lack of clarity. Look at

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Alan Chandler
On Friday 04 Nov 2005 15:17, Clinton Begin wrote: Quick comparison... ORM 1) Maps classes to tables, and columns to fields. 2) Must support Object Identity 3) Generates SQL SQL Mapping 1) Maps objects (not necessarily a custom type, or even the same type) to statements 2) Generally

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Clinton Begin wrote: Try this with Hibernate: int i = (Integer) client.queryForObject (countUsersInGroup, MyGroup); select id=countUsersInGroup resultClass=int parameterClass=string SELECT Count(1) FROM Users WHERE GroupName = #groupName# /select So, we're saying Hibernate has to

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Alan Chandler wrote: Wow - thank you very much. I had long been wondering why I was so attracted to iBatis rather than Hibernate given that the latter is obviously the way everyone has been going. Its made a light come on in my head. Yeah, I like the way Clinton writes about these

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Alan Chandler wrote: http://home.chandlerfamily.org.uk/archive/26/ibatis-v-hiberbate) Quote In simple terms, Hibernate maps Java Objects to database tables. iBatis maps Java Objects to SQL statements. /Quote Hang on a sec here, don't we also map Java Classes to database tables with iBatis?

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Alan Chandler
On Saturday 05 Nov 2005 09:38, Abdullah Kauchali wrote: Alan Chandler wrote: http://home.chandlerfamily.org.uk/archive/26/ibatis-v-hiberbate) Quote In simple terms, Hibernate maps Java Objects to database tables. iBatis maps Java Objects to SQL statements. /Quote Hang on a sec here, don't

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread netsql
What iBatis lets ME do is create a DAO base class that I can re-use. Eventualy DAO maps to a ... model suchas as TableModel (wahtever else... and TableModel maps to a jTableView. And TableModel is my disconected row set/data set that matheces my view requirment). The pooint of OO is to increase

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Larry Meadors
Getting kind of philosophical here... On 11/5/05, Alan Chandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wow - thank you very much. I had long been wondering why I was so attracted to iBatis rather than Hibernate given that the latter is obviously the way everyone has been going. Its made a light come on in

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Clinton Begin
This is really good discussion. I hope you guys help Kim with the FAQ, and post your feature requests to JIRA (I think use iBATIS as a spreadsheet is already in there). ;-) Cheers, ClintonOn 11/5/05, Alan Chandler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 05 Nov 2005 09:38, Abdullah Kauchali wrote:

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Alan Chandler
On Saturday 05 Nov 2005 14:51, Clinton Begin wrote: This is really good discussion. I hope you guys help Kim with the FAQ, and post your feature requests to JIRA (I think use iBATIS as a spreadsheet is already in there). ;-) Just dumped a simplified example of use of groupBy clause into the

RE: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Adib Saikali
Here are is a record of my experiences with Hibernate on a recent web project where I was the team lead and had complete control over choice of technology. This message is in the spirit of theory vs. practice. A wise programmer once told me that Simple things should be simple and hard things

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Clinton Begin
Fantastic. Thanks for sharing Adib! I may even forward this on to a few people. Cheers, ClintonOn 11/5/05, Adib Saikali [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are is a record of my experiences with Hibernate on a recent webproject where I was the team lead and had complete control over choice

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Paul Benedict
Does iBATIS have a free wiki? There should be a section for good and bad testimonials. This is one worth keeping. __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-05 Thread Clinton Begin
Yep, we have a wiki. It's linked from the homepage (Wiki in the sidebar). I've added this to the Feedback and Experiences section. Cheers, ClintonOn 11/5/05, Paul Benedict [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does iBATIS have a free wiki? There should be asection for good and bad testimonials. This is

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Larry Meadors
Man, this is a big one, and i am late already..i'll get it started. The question is not DAO vs ORM, it is ORM vs Data Mapping. ORM = mapping database objects to java objects (or c#, whatever). Data mapping = mapping sql *statements* to java objects (c#, blah, whatever). DAO can be used with

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Clinton Begin
Quick comparison... ORM 1) Maps classes to tables, and columns to fields. 2) Must support Object Identity 3) Generates SQL SQL Mapping 1) Maps objects (not necessarily a custom type, or even the same type) to statements 2) Generally does not support object identity (would be hard to

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Fantastic. Some more questions in-line. g Clinton Begin wrote: ORM 1) Maps classes to tables, and columns to fields. Don't we do that with iBatis too? Are we saying that mapping classes to tables, and columns to fields is generally a bad idea? 2) Must support Object Identity Yes,

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
Larry Meadors wrote: Man, this is a big one, and i am late already..i'll get it started. Sorry. :) I know Friday's almost over, but I need some ammo for something I am preparing for next week. The question is not DAO vs ORM, it is ORM vs Data Mapping. Got it! ORM = mapping

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Clinton Begin
Try this with Hibernate: int i = (Integer) client.queryForObject (countUsersInGroup, MyGroup); select id=countUsersInGroup resultClass=int parameterClass=string SELECT Count(1) FROM Users WHERE GroupName = #groupName# /select In asking yourself why this isn't possible in Hibernate, you'll

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Larry Meadors
Preamble/disclaimer: It is late on friday afternoon. On 11/4/05, Kim Goings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clinton - This discussion is probably far too old for you since you've been around it for so long. :) I think it's still valid. I've Clinton, Kim just called you OLD, I think. ;-) started

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Clinton Begin
Sorry everyone. I didn't mean to sound like I don't care about such comparisons. I think it is old for me, and I'm able to look at situation objectively and decide whether Hibernate or iBATIS (or neither) is the best choice. To me, it seems obvious. Perhaps this is a VERY long overdue FAQ that

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Clinton Begin
Clinton, Kim just called you OLD, I think. ;-) Yeah, but in dog years, I'm only 4. ClintonOn 11/4/05, Larry Meadors [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Preamble/disclaimer: It is late on friday afternoon.On 11/4/05, Kim Goings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Clinton - This discussion is probably far too old

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Kim Goings
I will try. I've only been able to convert 2 people so far and would love to reach more. :) Kim On Nov 4, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Clinton Begin wrote: Sorry everyone.  I didn't mean to sound like I don't care about such comparisons.  I think it is old for me, and I'm able to look at situation

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Clinton Begin
But if those two people convert two people each.exponential growth!On 11/4/05, Kim Goings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I will try.I've only been able to convert 2 people so far and would love to reach more.:)KimOn Nov 4, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Clinton Begin wrote:Sorry everyone. I didn't mean to sound

Re: iBatis and ORM's

2005-11-04 Thread Abdullah Kauchali
netsql wrote: Let me try another approach of how I answer this: Thanks, I appreciate it greatly! :) SQL is a set processing langage. You select a set, update a set where, etc., SQL engines are optimised for this for many decades. (See set theory, unions, intersections, SQL PT, etc.) In