Re: no wiki problem
There's a simple solution to abusive comments: IGNORE THEM! The destructive atmosphere builds up because we tend to react (quite naturally). Let's remind ourselves that this list is an exchange of ideas, resources and assistance. Should someone step beyond this, it's better (and more effective) to ignore. Allow the atmosphere to dissipate rather than polarize. With apologies to Garry, he's been a long-time contributer to this list, but also has those destructive episodes. So: there is some good, with bad. As long as we maintain a balance, any excesses can be absorbed... I'm sure Vesa has already contacted Garry about this situation. Amir
Re: no wiki problem - Clifton Hill Extension
Garry, hopefully this is heading toward a round of sincere apologies to everyone you insulted...? Amir
Let's Attack Garry ! was : Re: no wiki problem
I will resurrect myself from the dead, to say that Garry must go. Now. I have waited a long time to say that. He was given a second chance, probably more than once, before and he continues to abuse the priviledge. If he does not go, I suggest we take the mailing list to a new forum and ban his account. Miles/.. (sorry Vesa, but it has to be said) Well said , and thanks for the many many awesome tutorials you have provided through all these many years . So glad you were not one of those people who just kept posting about their problems and their creations . Many here have left their mark on this community , some ... just a quickly fading , and very odd looking stain . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
There's a simple solution to abusive comments: IGNORE THEM! Right , that's what Vesa suggested . The destructive atmosphere builds up because we tend to react (quite naturally). Yes , and some are very , very sensitive too , it seems . Let's remind ourselves that this list is an exchange of ideas, resources and assistance. Should someone step beyond this, it's better (and more effective) to ignore. Allow the atmosphere to dissipate rather than polarize. So right , with Vesa's suggestion to Cool it comes another barrage of attacks . Very odd . With apologies to Garry, he's been a long-time contributer to this list, but also has those destructive episodes. So: there is some good, with bad. As long as we maintain a balance, any excesses can be absorbed... No apologies required . I have very little in my life to be sensitive about (except for that one time in Samoa ... but that's another story) . I'm sure Vesa has already contacted Garry about this situation. Amir Actually no, Vesa took the time to contact all of us at once by posting his sentiments to this list . That was enough for me , but for some it seems it was an invite to flame away , at will . Kind of bizzare , if you ask me . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
Gary Thanks for the offer , but I have a very elaborate archive that goes way-way back to V3.x . I feel that I should put you straight , however . I wasn't asking for help from anyone . I was suggesting that those with advanced knowledge share it with the community . You and Jason are telling me how I should work hard and learn , but I've known that for many years now . I wasn't suggesting that Jason create an advanced Gi tutorial for me , I feel I have a very good grasp on RS3D Gi now for the last 2 years . I was suggesting Jason share some of his project files , or at least create a project file that he could share , so _THE REST_ of the community could begin to come to grips wuth RS3D Gi This is not what you asked for Gary ? You got know where near asking for this. Instead you were abusive to me and eventually my wife for no founded reason other than your frustration of the lists lack of response to your general ranting. You accused me of giving nothing to the list of which I have disproved with these previously mentioned emails alone and my years of contributions to the beta testing and development which you have never been privee to see and could not possibly have any idea of what you are talking about. I have shown you in the previous emails my working methods which have NO GREAT SECRET you keep eluding to, just hard work of tweaking and testing. You now choose to ignore this information as I have proved you wrong and instead find a new reason to complain to me and others. Why was I suddenly to be named as solely responsible for the Realsoft user list demise in your previous email, when GI is only a small part of Realsoft 3D ? You chose to slander and critisize me and now I have proved your accusations to be misplaced you still cannot bring yourself to apologise for your behaviour. I am amazed you are still allowed to voice your opinion on this list and hope you are not permitted to speak to anyone else the way you have to me ever again. What is so odd is that you could have asked me in a nice pleasant manner as you have managed to do in the past and I would have no doubt found the time to answer your concerns as best I could. You contradict yourself over and over. If you know GI very well then you can surely apply a sky texture map as an illumination channel in a single shader to a skydome sphere, throw in your scene, a GI shader, a light and tweak the controls as explained. This is no secret and it's how I make my images as I have told you over and over. You clearly have a lot more time than many of us here, so if you are not doing it for you alone, perhaps you can put your time where your mouse is and upload the project file yourself. Somehow , you 2 percieve a tiny possibility that I am asking for myself . If I was , I wouldn't attemp to shame someone into finally sharing some concrete tutorials , of course . Shame someone into creating concrete tutorials ??? None of us are under any obligation to provide any tutorials especially in the manner in which you ask. This kind of pressure would scare people away as they would feel any kind of presence on the list would warrant they must create a tutorial to stay around. This is a free community list to help each other out as and when we can and know how to. What you are suggesting is re-inventing the user list into a different approach from what we have come to know. While you do have some points that are worth discussing as you and the list currently are, your approach to saving good information is entirely different. What I was actually trying to accomplish , was to once again point out that the Realsoft3D community's success hinges on selfless giving and sharing via HTML tutorials . Not by firing off emails while at work , or showing us yet another awesome render . Garry Considering my work often starts at 8am and finishes between 8pm and 4am the next morning I do not know when else I am supposed to email the list Gary... really what planet are you on... it is now a crime to respond to the list while I am at work ??? I also promise not to post any more renders to the list if that will keep you happy as it clearly irritates you. Now anyone else who would like to post a good image will now have to think... hmmm if I post this image I am happy with, while I have 2 minutes to upload it during my busy day. Will I get lambasted by Gary for not also handing over the project file and a tutorial of how I did it This which I do not have the time to do and my client would not allow me to release publicly anyway hmmm maybe I better not upload it after all... another good piece of work lost in cyber ether for no reason. With your approach the list falls apart a lot quicker as no one will see any inspiring work any more. Jason
Re: no wiki problem
Jason you lost Vesa's game! I've been over ten years on this list but there has never been so much negative energy. Garry (right with two R) tries to destroy this list. Unfotunately the mailinglist admin seems to be tolerating pissing and spitting on the most gratefull artists. I was considering the first time since I'm here to leave the list. It's a big big shame that an amoeba from budweiser and stripbar can bring so much trouble here. First he asked for tutorials, then he gets them, oki then he asks for project files. I guess he needs them to make the first great image on his renderfarm. Man ... my bloodpressure goes now nowhere and I can't understand what's going on. Toleration has somewhere it's end. For me it's since last week reached. Bye Boris This is not what you asked for Gary ? You got know where near asking for this. Instead you were abusive to me and eventually my wife for no founded reason other than your frustration of the lists lack of response to your general ranting. You accused me of giving nothing to the list of which I have disproved with these previously mentioned emails alone and my years of contributions to the beta testing and development which you have never been privee to see and could not possibly have any idea of what you are talking about. I have shown you in the previous emails my working methods which have NO GREAT SECRET you keep eluding to, just hard work of tweaking and testing. You now choose to ignore this information as I have proved you wrong and instead find a new reason to complain to me and others. Why was I suddenly to be named as solely responsible for the Realsoft user list demise in your previous email, when GI is only a small part of Realsoft 3D ? You chose to slander and critisize me and now I have proved your accusations to be misplaced you still cannot bring yourself to apologise for your behaviour. I am amazed you are still allowed to voice your opinion on this list and hope you are not permitted to speak to anyone else the way you have to me ever again. What is so odd is that you could have asked me in a nice pleasant manner as you have managed to do in the past and I would have no doubt found the time to answer your concerns as best I could. You contradict yourself over and over. If you know GI very well then you can surely apply a sky texture map as an illumination channel in a single shader to a skydome sphere, throw in your scene, a GI shader, a light and tweak the controls as explained. This is no secret and it's how I make my images as I have told you over and over. You clearly have a lot more time than many of us here, so if you are not doing it for you alone, perhaps you can put your time where your mouse is and upload the project file yourself. Somehow , you 2 percieve a tiny possibility that I am asking for myself . If I was , I wouldn't attemp to shame someone into finally sharing some concrete tutorials , of course . Shame someone into creating concrete tutorials ??? None of us are under any obligation to provide any tutorials especially in the manner in which you ask. This kind of pressure would scare people away as they would feel any kind of presence on the list would warrant they must create a tutorial to stay around. This is a free community list to help each other out as and when we can and know how to. What you are suggesting is re-inventing the user list into a different approach from what we have come to know. While you do have some points that are worth discussing as you and the list currently are, your approach to saving good information is entirely different. What I was actually trying to accomplish , was to once again point out that the Realsoft3D community's success hinges on selfless giving and sharing via HTML tutorials . Not by firing off emails while at work , or showing us yet another awesome render . Garry Considering my work often starts at 8am and finishes between 8pm and 4am the next morning I do not know when else I am supposed to email the list Gary... really what planet are you on... it is now a crime to respond to the list while I am at work ??? I also promise not to post any more renders to the list if that will keep you happy as it clearly irritates you. Now anyone else who would like to post a good image will now have to think... hmmm if I post this image I am happy with, while I have 2 minutes to upload it during my busy day. Will I get lambasted by Gary for not also handing over the project file and a tutorial of how I did it This which I do not have the time to do and my client would not allow me to release publicly anyway hmmm maybe I better not upload it after all... another good piece of work lost in cyber ether for no reason. With your approach the list falls apart a lot quicker as no one will see any inspiring work any more. Jason
Re: no wiki problem
However, since you've commented about the lack of mailing list archives, I offer you my archive. It goes back 3-4 years and includes all attachments. I might have lost one or two posts due to past computer hiccups. If you're interested, email me off-list. Amir Thanks for the offer , but I have a very elaborate archive that goes way-way back to V3.x . I feel that I should put you straight , however . I wasn't asking for help from anyone . I was suggesting that those with advanced knowledge share it with the community . You and Jason are telling me how I should work hard and learn , but I've known that for many years now . I wasn't suggesting that Jason create an advanced Gi tutorial for me , I feel I have a very good grasp on RS3D Gi now for the last 2 years . I was suggesting Jason share some of his project files , or at least create a project file that he could share , so _THE REST_ of the community could begin to come to grips wuth RS3D Gi . Somehow , you 2 percieve a tiny possibility that I am asking for myself . If I was , I wouldn't attemp to shame someone into finally sharing some concrete tutorials , of course . What I was actually trying to accomplish , was to once again point out that the Realsoft3D community's success hinges on selfless giving and sharing via HTML tutorials . Not by firing off emails while at work , or showing us yet another awesome render . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
Who wants to belong to a list with pathetic individuals like yourself on it!!!? Exactly : This is all you have got ! Sad , so sad . Back up your position in this community with even a single solitary ounce of contribution ... Anyone coming to this list as a newbie would be put of RS3D all together after seeing the attitude you have.. You have not contributed even a single solitary word/verb/noun toward newbies coming to this list . Some people have a life outside RS3D Right , of course , but being a part of the RS3D community is an important part of sharing vital information . That's all the input I am going to put into your pathetic posts ...Garry on the spam/delete list. Yep , that is good thing for the list , and actually the only thing you have ever done since you got here from who knows where ? Please do not stress out over this tiny altercation . We know you are very sick and I wish nothing but the best of health to you and sincerely hope that they do not decide to cut your testicles off . Garry
RE: no wiki problem
I know many usefull trick and could do the following turial : -How to do a portal to another univers with compositing inside realsoft. -How to render the depth of an object to use it as a bump mapping to a lower polygon object. -How to do a manual motion blurr. -How to to cut the scene complexity by 4 by rendering a 360 image and then using it as a background. -How to do a fisheye lens rendering by putting the camera inside a transparent sphere with refraction. -How to controll all the animation of a character with a single channel. -And many more. But I don't have time and I am lazy. I have 2 website to do, a pamphlet to produce, my own website to update, my personnal animation project to complete. And I have to work my regular job 8:00 to 16:30 5 days a week, make some repairing on my house. So my only relax time is reading this interesting realsoft list. I have so many new things to show on my website, I don't have time to put them on my site. I would like to do as many tutorial as I could, but I am tired. And I have been sick for the past 6 months. The other problem is that I don't use realsoft professionaly, Because I find the workflow (rendering setting, GI and material) too slow. So I use other 3D application. I use realsoft only for modeling. This is sad, but I don't have much time. Realsoft is very powerfull but difficult to use. In fact, it is the most difficult software to use. That's why everytime you want to do something with realsoft you need to open the manual and ask this list. Realsoft is very technical. It is the last software I would recommand for a beginer. But if you have time to learn and time to work with it it is the finest of the finest. Everytime I get a new contract, I think of realsoft, but use another software instead because I fear it may take too much time with Realsoft. I still offer my personal texture collection of 18 000, 8 gig textures to anyone asking. If anyone is interested, I will ship the DVD's full of texture. The last time I offered this, nobody replied to it. You have a point Gary, we should, if we can, put as much possible to advance the community. But it's not an obligation. And for the wide variety of subjects and opinions on this list : It's a free bonus. I personally learned to do 3D by myself and by observing others work. Never used any tutorial in my life. I read the manual, try every feature of a software one by one. An advice to every newbie is think of a scene or the image of that scene, sketch it rapidly on a paper, write the list of object needed then start working inside Realsoft. Solve every problem one after the other. A real project will make you go trough the whole process slowly. It took me 17 years of 3D to be where I am now. So be patient. 3D is not about trick and technique, it's about patience and many try. Don't compare to pixar, because nobody there know how to do a 3D animation. They only know part of it. There is a departement by : modeling, texture, lighting, animating, rendering, compositing. So if you do an image from scratch you are already better than them. To understand what is a good photography and composition, To understand what is a good lighted scene with an emotion, To understand what makes an image beatifull is a verrry long process. To do that you have to leave Realsoft there and observe the world aroud you. As for the trick about GI, my better advice is do it in you room with real light. The solution is not in Realsoft, It's in you. Everyone should calm down on the list, It's just a spicy debate. Don't take it personnaly, It's not like we know each other. As for the language and the insults, It's useless and it's going nowhere. Note : I have been banned on the ElectricImage forum a couples of years ago, because I mentionned that realsoft was like electricimage with 20 000$ dollars of plugins included for only half the price of electricimage. People started insulting me, I sold electricimage right after that. I am toltally against banning. A good Idea Gary, if you have time, would be to compile the interesting information from this list and put it on a website. : ) Like that they would never be lost, like tears in the rain. This thread is nice, it shoked and woke up the community. A final advice to anyone, read the tutorial of other 3D software, Most of the time they work with every other application. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ws -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de studio Envoyé : Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:53 AM À : user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Objet : Re: no wiki problem You should leave it there. No . Instead of writing on this List, you should be working with Realsoft instead. Yes . There is no competition about who is the best Realsoft user. Realsoft is there to realize your personnal vision only. Yes again . And you should not associate Realsoft with the people using it. Realsoft is just a tool
Re: no wiki problem
In Outlook 2002 select the menu and type in: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Set it to move it to deleted items folder. Click next and activate Turn on this rule Click finish. Karl Hi Karl , so good to hear from you again ! : Thanks Karl . Much less frustrating than your usual well , I don't have Realsoft3D running right now as I am at work , but if you take the vebelfester and V- notch it starting at the cornfesting cranknob you will perhaps get a solemn nitquacker's aromatic . I have of course expressed my constant frustrations to people like you and David Coombes , about you al- ways shooting VSL from the hip while you are at work . It serves no purpose what-so-ever but only causes deep head scratching high blood pressures. Your above advice runs perfectly (so refreshing) however ! Thank you so much for a detailed working methodology . I knew you had it in you . (even if it is not VSL related in any way at all) ... and of course thanks for your RS noise shader . http://tinyurl.com/zx67o If only you would find the time to ship a few more of those rare gems (and create a permanent link to them ...somewhere) . Garry my web situation is currently in deep flux http://tinyurl.com/hw5cl
Re: no wiki problem - this is my last email on this matter.
www.pixelperfect.co.uk/TEMP/jason_previous_GI_related_posts.zip Regards Jason Well , I see that Vesa has cracked down . Too bad because I was going to have a riot with your reply ... oh well . So then , let me ask you this question : Do you not grasp the fact (that I've been harping on , over and over till I'm blue in the face) that this .zip file that you have in your TEMP directory will only have the very short life that your one single mail to this list gives it ? Seriously ! Only one single person has ever addressed my simple premise , and that's Jean-Perron . All else here have never commented on the inherent drawbacks of posting info to this list . In my last mail I profusely suggested that you quit posting info to this list and instead create a web page with your RS3D insites . Your response was to post an information-bearing list e-mail. Let me ask you point-blank then . Why don't you simply add a single , solitary web page to your vast web site , that has a/some links to your Realsoft3D findings . Barring that , why not very simply just include a short link to the above .zip file in your email signature ? Having a link to this new informational file (that you have finally taken the time to create) in your sig , will ensure (on your rare visits to the list) that it will have (a brief) perpetualness . This suggested way is better than nothing , isn't it ? (and nothing is what new subscribers to this list will get) I wish I could join some of you in thinking that 'it's just me' ... but I can't . I look for _concrete_ contri- butions to the community and ... ... oh yes , Vesa has spoken . OK . Garry my web situation is currently in deep flux http://tinyurl.com/hw5cl
Re: no wiki problem
You have a point Gary, we should, if we can, put as much possible to advance the community. But it's not an obligation . Not an obligation ? Hmmm ... Do you not feel an obligation of some small amount toward the society that you live in ? I dare you to say no . If you are a 'Leader' in the society that you live in , how can you not contribute ? In my mind , if you are of the 'Leader' status in your society , then you _must_ contribute ! However , in the RS3D society , leaders show awesome works without direction on how the rest of us may follow . Why ? Because the last thing they want is for us to follow ... and pass them easily ! It's the same all over the world . Those on the inside track certainly do not want to share the knowledge that they have gained via their gravitational interactions . Of course , what comes around goes around , and that can be a bitch . Always-always-always there will be those that are hoar-ders and all 'the rest of us' can do is point them out whenever we have the opportunity . And for the wide variety of subjects and opinions on this list : It's a free bonus. This list is like an X-Box or Playstation Game to many . Another diversion is all . I say it 'till I'm Blue In The Face ; Concrete Contribution is all that matters ... Jump on IRC and you will meet all kinds of people who are willing to help you . You say RS3D is too slow but did you ever contact Vesa of Juha and ask them directly ? Robert d. and bore,us J are solid contributers but most are just lazy people looking to kill time at work via the RS3D list . Spew to the list ... who cares , it will all be washed away tomorrow , as everything that is posted to this list inevitably is (no one seems to get it[bizzare]) . Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.cws Garry my web situation is currently in deep flux http://tinyurl.com/hw5cl
Re: no wiki problem
Thanks Robert, but trying to add some humour to a continuing disgruntled thread that is becoming tedious from one corner. Profanity has never been prevalent on this list and is unnecessary. We either diffuse with humour or it gets nasty. Lets finish it here. No more unnecessary swearing and ranting and we can expect a calmer Realsoft society. Uh-huh : and let me personally thank you for all your enormous efforts regarding your elaborate tutorials on how to create incredible indoor Global illumination scenes . I mean , of course you would be a little upset and be so low , considering all the incredible efforts you have personally placed on the RS Wiki regarding skills that you and you alone have mastered . I bow to you , as we have all done for years , since you are indeed the RS Gi King . Thanks , of course ,are not enough . Your tutorial efforts kept so many many of us from floundering needlesly ... haplessly experiment- ing with little or no results . Thank god you were not one of those self-centered cocksuckers who strived to protect in secrecy any and all skillsgained from experimenting with with Vesa's and Juha's hand holding . You are a true pioneer who did all you could to make sure that the rest of the community never had to say how did he do that incredible render? . Yep , you certainly are not one of those cunts who seem to think they are so much better than everyone else , who keep all skills learned close to thier chest in a flacid attempt at being better than all others in the very very tight Realsoft Community . You my friend are about to become confronted with what you truly have become , so relax and enjoy your destiny , you most certainly earned it . good luk ... Garry Curtis
Re: no wiki problem
:) Oh dear I think someone got out of bed on the wrong side today. I have some news for you Gary. There are no great secrets to creating my GI images. I have, in numerous emails already informed the group of my standard workflow and also in personal emails to some individuals. You seem to think just knowing the tools gives you a good image. This is not the case as I have stated before, you also need to have a god eye, a good concept and a good understanding of what kind of image you are trying to achieve. I cannot give you any more information than I already have as its the same method I use today. Stop moaning because know one is holding YOUR hand in showing you how to start and finish a masterpiece. Go and discover if you have the ability (or dare I say talent) alone like the rest of us have to. Technical help is on hand for all of us when we need it. That is primarily what the list is here for. To help with the usage of the realsoft software and to encourage. My lack of posting to the WIKI has something to do with the fact I and a few others are a minority in that we are trying to earn a living using this software, it is no longer a hobby for some of us. I clearly do not have the same time you have to discover every finite trick Realsoft has to offer. I have enormous pressures running a business you obviously have no comprehension of. There are many more on this list with far greater knowledge than I on VSL, mathematics and physics, who you can and are learning a lot from. Something else your hung-over head might also have forgotten is that while the list does not see the effort I have put in over several years in beta testing the software you use. I have bug reported, tested and commented consistently for the benefit of all of us. Apparently this is not enough. Stop trying to find shortcuts Gary. Go learn the art of good imagery and animation THEN learn how to use the Realsoft tools to achieve your concepts. Can Rolf Harris paint the 'Sistine Chapel'... answer... probably not. I am quite happy with who I have become, but thank you for your intellectual insight as always. You may not have noticed this Gary, but over the years I cannot think of anyone else on this list who upsets and alienates people the way you do. You seem consistently on a knife edge and generally a very frustrated individual, turn the mirror on yourself once in a while for a reality check. Careful who you slander on this list my friend ! If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. Love and best wishes Jason - Original Message - From: studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 8:01 AM Subject: Re: no wiki problem Thanks Robert, but trying to add some humour to a continuing disgruntled thread that is becoming tedious from one corner. Profanity has never been prevalent on this list and is unnecessary. We either diffuse with humour or it gets nasty. Lets finish it here. No more unnecessary swearing and ranting and we can expect a calmer Realsoft society. Uh-huh : and let me personally thank you for all your enormous efforts regarding your elaborate tutorials on how to create incredible indoor Global illumination scenes . I mean , of course you would be a little upset and be so low , considering all the incredible efforts you have personally placed on the RS Wiki regarding skills that you and you alone have mastered . I bow to you , as we have all done for years , since you are indeed the RS Gi King . Thanks , of course ,are not enough . Your tutorial efforts kept so many many of us from floundering needlesly ... haplessly experiment- ing with little or no results . Thank god you were not one of those self-centered cocksuckers who strived to protect in secrecy any and all skillsgained from experimenting with with Vesa's and Juha's hand holding . You are a true pioneer who did all you could to make sure that the rest of the community never had to say how did he do that incredible render? . Yep , you certainly are not one of those cunts who seem to think they are so much better than everyone else , who keep all skills learned close to thier chest in a flacid attempt at being better than all others in the very very tight Realsoft Community . You my friend are about to become confronted with what you truly have become , so relax and enjoy your destiny , you most certainly earned it . good luk ... Garry Curtis
Re: no wiki problem
Hi Jason, If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. no way ... the only one who should leave this list is Gary. He is a big shame for the RS community. Bye Boris
Re: no wiki problem
If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. Jason I can only speak for myself, but I value your contributions both to this list and the Realsoft community in general. I'm sure many on this list ( if not all...) appreciate the time and energy it takes to make a living out of 3D. All the best, Glenn McLean
Re: no wiki problem
Jason Saunders wrote: :) Oh dear I think someone got out of bed on the wrong side today. I have some news for you Gary. There are no great secrets to creating my GI images. I have, in numerous emails already informed the group of my standard workflow and also in personal emails to some individuals. You seem to think just knowing the tools gives you a good image. This is not the case as I have stated before, you also need to have a god eye, a good concept and a good understanding of what kind of image you are trying to achieve. I cannot give you any more information than I already have as its the same method I use today. Stop moaning because know one is holding YOUR hand in showing you how to start and finish a masterpiece. Go and discover if you have the ability (or dare I say talent) alone like the rest of us have to. Technical help is on hand for all of us when we need it. That is primarily what the list is here for. To help with the usage of the realsoft software and to encourage. My lack of posting to the WIKI has something to do with the fact I and a few others are a minority in that we are trying to earn a living using this software, it is no longer a hobby for some of us. I clearly do not have the same time you have to discover every finite trick Realsoft has to offer. I have enormous pressures running a business you obviously have no comprehension of. There are many more on this list with far greater knowledge than I on VSL, mathematics and physics, who you can and are learning a lot from. Something else your hung-over head might also have forgotten is that while the list does not see the effort I have put in over several years in beta testing the software you use. I have bug reported, tested and commented consistently for the benefit of all of us. Apparently this is not enough. Stop trying to find shortcuts Gary. Go learn the art of good imagery and animation THEN learn how to use the Realsoft tools to achieve your concepts. Can Rolf Harris paint the 'Sistine Chapel'... answer... probably not. I am quite happy with who I have become, but thank you for your intellectual insight as always. You may not have noticed this Gary, but over the years I cannot think of anyone else on this list who upsets and alienates people the way you do. You seem consistently on a knife edge and generally a very frustrated individual, turn the mirror on yourself once in a while for a reality check. Careful who you slander on this list my friend ! If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. Love and best wishes Jason Well, that sums it up nicely, good work m8! : D Cheers, Zaug P.S. Nah, you can stay ; ) -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. |8?o
RE: no wiki problem
You should leave it there. Forget about this small simple and ridiculous problem (observed from outside). Instead of writing on this List, you should be working with Realsoft instead. There is no competition about who is the best Realsoft user. Realsoft is there to realize your personnal vision only. And you should not associate Realsoft with the people using it. Realsoft is just a tool... so use it. Stop talking about it. Note : The realsoft community is the weirdest one, people Take much of their time trying to write tutorial, finding technical tricks, Writing plugins than actually using Realsoft to create ART(Picture or animation). Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca
Re: Re: no wiki problem
Hi Jason, What a gentleman! I would have had to sleep a couple nights to reply to that email with as much restraint. Thank you Jason for your efforts. Probably the single biggest tip I got from your postings was that you need to have some dim 'ambient' type of lights to 'activate' good transparency and reflection. You are right. These kind of images take a lot of experience (the hard kind you can only learn by doing it yourself) and often they can take a lot of testrendering and tweaking. Having a lot of entourage can help as well. Thanks again. Chris From: Jason Saunders [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2006/09/18 Mon AM 04:09:21 CDT To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: no wiki problem :) Oh dear I think someone got out of bed on the wrong side today. I have some news for you Gary. There are no great secrets to creating my GI images. I have, in numerous emails already informed the group of my standard workflow and also in personal emails to some individuals.
Re: no wiki problem
Hi List, Jason, Boris ... Garry Jason wrote: If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. Boris wrote: no way ... the only one who should leave this list is Gary. He is a big shame for the RS community. I agree with Boris. I expect that the List can not vote a user off the list since access to the list might be a contract offered by Realsoft to anyone purchasing RS. The solution many of us have found is to simply not respond to or even read posts from those who do not deserve the effort. But in this reply I suppose I am breaking my own rule. The paradox of justice. Neil Cooke - Original Message - From: Boris Jahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Sent: Monday, September 18, 2006 9:52 PM Subject: Re: no wiki problem Hi Jason, If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. no way ... the only one who should leave this list is Gary. He is a big shame for the RS community. Bye Boris
Re: no wiki problem
If the rest of the list feel the same way Gary has indicated, then I will gladly leave the user list today as I have not intention of offending anyone else. Love and best wishes Jason You're cracked . Elitist's like yourself hoard profusely but will consistently remind you of their non-tangible cont- ributions . Your beta-testing gives you free software . Your sporadic mails to this list are lost forever (there is no archive) . So what have you got to show for yourself , as far as community contributions go ? Yep , excellent Gi renderings ... I rest my case (of Bud) . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
I can only speak for myself, but I value your contributions both to this list and the Realsoft community in general. I'm sure many on this list ( if not all...) appreciate the time and energy it takes to make a living out of 3D. Glenn McLean Contributions ??? : What contributions ? Here , this is what I have rendered with Realsoft3D is the only contribution I have ever seen out of Jasmine Slanders . ...Years Years Later : Where are the RS3D project files ? Where are the advanced RS3D Gi tutorials ? Where are the RS3D VSL Indoor Textures ? Of course making a living in 3D is an enormous task , and a hill I never had the talent to climb , but it's no excuse to hoard crucial information , as far as I'm concerned anyway . Jason is a hoar-der . We all know that . His wife may put up with his endless 3D for Jason , but I will not and will call a spade a spade . Whatever ... Garry PS : Forgot about possible youngsters on this list . Will attempt to filter my army mouth from now on .
RE: no wiki problem
Man, This list has sunk sow low ... The lowest of low.. R -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of studio Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2006 16:12 To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: no wiki problem I can only speak for myself, but I value your contributions both to this list and the Realsoft community in general. I'm sure many on this list ( if not all...) appreciate the time and energy it takes to make a living out of 3D. Glenn McLean Contributions ??? : What contributions ? Here , this is what I have rendered with Realsoft3D is the only contribution I have ever seen out of Jasmine Slanders . ...Years Years Later : Where are the RS3D project files ? Where are the advanced RS3D Gi tutorials ? Where are the RS3D VSL Indoor Textures ? Of course making a living in 3D is an enormous task , and a hill I never had the talent to climb , but it's no excuse to hoard crucial information , as far as I'm concerned anyway . Jason is a hoar-der . We all know that . His wife may put up with his endless 3D for Jason , but I will not and will call a spade a spade . Whatever ... Garry PS : Forgot about possible youngsters on this list . Will attempt to filter my army mouth from now on .
Re: no wiki problem (the list is garbage)
Love and best wishes Jason Well, that sums it up nicely, good work m8! : D Zaug P.S. Nah, you can stay ; ) My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. |8?o Inspiring words from one of the 'Dubie' Brothers : I remember a day when list sharing was monumental , when there was so much sharing the list actually 'split' into a specific catagory . Has the time come to start to think about what is good and what is not good for this list , perhaps ? No , not even close . This list is nothing . Anyone can subscribe . Anyone can attempt to set the pace here and lately the pace is absurdly slow . The first thing 'real' Realsoft3D lovers must come to understand is that the list is nothing but garbage ! Yep , you read that right ... the list is garbage ! It's venting , and bullcrap and very little info , and the info that is sparingly shared will disappear forever into the void . The whole Realsoft3D community actually centers around web sites similiar to what 'Bore-Us John' have created . IRC is another true wealth of info . Of course Robert denbroeder has attempted to create an all in one RS3D web site where even inside beta-testing info can be had , and maybe this is the one true RS3D information site , but Robert d. only has so much time ... Satu helped to create yet another RS3D site that may have been the 'be-all-and-end-all' of RS3D sites , but somehow that site did not actually emerge as was antic- ipated , and Satu retired from the RS family in order to spend more time with her own family . Then came the Wiki , which turned out to be just an- other version of the mailing list . Crucial info could be easily added and just as easily subtracted by any- RS hating clown who happened to wander in ... HTML tutorials are all that actually count . Here, lick my renders are nothing more or less than meaningless egotisticall crap that people like Gay-son Saunters have been flaunting for years and years . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
Man, This list has sunk sow low The lowest of low.. R Ya , but where have you been ? : Haven't you been one of those people who have promised all kinds of tutorials but have never actually delivered even a single ounce of usefull information? Of course not . Yep , you are a mailing list garbage person . You comment once and a while , but do not provide even a single morsel of usefullness , although you obviously promise otherwise , endlessly . So who are you ? Where did you come from ? What are your true intensions ? What have you given the community ? Examine this logical equation (below) : A) (If) The mailing list is nothing but a place for people like yourself to throw garbage (like your above comments) . B) (And If) The only place the Realsoft3D community has any kind of interaction with you is this mailing list . C) (Then) You are nothing but garbage . D) Time for you and your clown buddies to go Fluk themselves . E) Contribute or Fluk Off ! F) Time to determine who is for the RS3D community and and who is for the Maya/Max/LW community . G) That can only be determined by the amount of effort that has been applied toward advanced HTML tutorials . We know Robert and Bore-us John are all for RS3D , but what about the rest of you that contribute nothing , ex- cept your useless promises and critiques ... That's correct ! You are against . You have nothing to offer except shallow promises that never happen , of course . You are not of the community and have no intentions of becoming part of the RS3D user base . You are garbage . So now we may look at Swanson Swinders and ask who's side is she on ? Who knows ? She only contributes to the garbage list ... no tutorials ... no textures ... no contibutions except lick my renders . I'm eager to hear your pansy rebuttal . (Please do forgive this mail if you're finally dead) . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
But in this reply I suppose I am breaking my own rule. The paradox of justice. Neil Cooke Ya , OK : Go back to sleep now . Garry
RE: no wiki problem
Ha ha, Man you are a joke... Take your blood pressure medication and get some counselling... you are a disgrace to RS3D and are pathetic! Who wants to belong to a list with pathetic individuals like yourself on it!!!? Anyone coming to this list as a newbie would be put of RS3D all together after seeing the attitude you have.. Some people have a life outside RS3D R That's all the input I am going to put into your pathetic posts...Garry on the spam/delete list. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of studio Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2006 17:20 To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Subject: Re: no wiki problem Man, This list has sunk sow low The lowest of low.. R Ya , but where have you been ? : Haven't you been one of those people who have promised all kinds of tutorials but have never actually delivered even a single ounce of usefull information? Of course not . Yep , you are a mailing list garbage person . You comment once and a while , but do not provide even a single morsel of usefullness , although you obviously promise otherwise , endlessly . So who are you ? Where did you come from ? What are your true intensions ? What have you given the community ? Examine this logical equation (below) : A) (If) The mailing list is nothing but a place for people like yourself to throw garbage (like your above comments) . B) (And If) The only place the Realsoft3D community has any kind of interaction with you is this mailing list . C) (Then) You are nothing but garbage . D) Time for you and your clown buddies to go Fluk themselves . E) Contribute or Fluk Off ! F) Time to determine who is for the RS3D community and and who is for the Maya/Max/LW community . G) That can only be determined by the amount of effort that has been applied toward advanced HTML tutorials . We know Robert and Bore-us John are all for RS3D , but what about the rest of you that contribute nothing , ex- cept your useless promises and critiques ... That's correct ! You are against . You have nothing to offer except shallow promises that never happen , of course . You are not of the community and have no intentions of becoming part of the RS3D user base . You are garbage . So now we may look at Swanson Swinders and ask who's side is she on ? Who knows ? She only contributes to the garbage list ... no tutorials ... no textures ... no contibutions except lick my renders . I'm eager to hear your pansy rebuttal . (Please do forgive this mail if you're finally dead) . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
You should leave it there. No . Instead of writing on this List, you should be working with Realsoft instead. Yes . There is no competition about who is the best Realsoft user. Realsoft is there to realize your personnal vision only. Yes again . And you should not associate Realsoft with the people using it. Realsoft is just a tool... so use it. Stop talking about it. Yes again again . Note : The realsoft community is the weirdest one, people Take much of their time trying to write tutorial, finding technical tricks, Writing plugins than actually using Realsoft to create ART(Picture or animation). Jean-Sebastien Perron www.neuroworld.ca Ok , but if you yourself Jean-Sebastien find something very interesting that you know without question that the whole RS3D community would absolutely love to have access to , that would love to have a project file or a VSL file , or would go crazy for an elaborate Web Page Tutorial ... Would you not share ? My whole point is : A) There are many here . B) Some will contribute with tutorials . C) Some will endeavor to degrade the RS3D community via various useless mails to the list that serve no purpose except to promote certain individuals as RS3D proponents when in actuality it's all about them . This is my whole point (above) again. ** I totally agree that the best you can do is create awesome art with RS3D but it really only takes a few tutorials first , and those tutorials are being pro- mised by some users , and never-ever-ever-ever-ever delivered . Also , some so called advanced users simply choose not to share vital knowledge (yet another point I'm trying desperately to make) . Garry
Re: no wiki problem
studio wrote: http://www.killmeplease.com/ Hmm, The link does not work for me. Zaug -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. |8?o
Re: no wiki problem
studio wrote: http://www.killmeplease.com/ couldn't one do him this favour?
RE: no wiki problem
studio wrote: http://www.killmeplease.com/ couldn't one do him this favour? send in the Budweiser again me thinks :) Stop this childish behaviour please...
Re: no wiki problem
No Words : Perhaps Your Reply (far-far below) is the Perfect Post to Place on the Wiki's Tombstone ... By the way, 'Bizarre' is a very descriptive ... something . Garry http://www.killmeplease.com No, you are correct, I think that only admins like myself and Matthias may remove a page completely - the page we are talking about is still there. Go to Special pages-All pages to see _all_ pages that are on the wiki. If an admin completely removes a page, however, it won't even appear here and the contents of the page will be lost forever. As for extending the Recent Changes, you can do that yourself by clicking the links at the top of the page. There you can increase the number of changes to show and how old the changes may be. If the numbers presented in there aren't enough, you can modify the URL directly: http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Special:Recentchangeslimit=500days=300 This will give you the latest 500 changes that are less than 300 days old. I suppose that you can exchange 500 and 300 with any number, within reason. If you don't want to type this in every time, you can bookmark the URL in your browser for easy access. If Matthias, as he is the only one with enough access, were to modify the PHP code of the Mediawiki to add more links on that page, he would make it more difficult to upgrade the wiki when that becomes necessary. It is best to minimise the number of such modifications. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz P.S. Note that, on the All pages page you can also easily see the duplicate pages I was bitching about a long time ago. I think most of the duplicates are sorted out, but some may still remain. Sorry , I thought only yourself had the means to comp- letely remove a Wiki page . My sincerest apologies . You also make good points about the pro's con's of simply copying info into the Wiki from a site that is in a constant state of being upgraded , without foll- owing the S/W's Doc upgrade timetable . Well , could we not extend the timeframe of the 'Recent Changes' tool ? Not fair in my opinion to have an author wondering who and what and why , without at least some small info about the date thier efforts were wiped out . Of course in theory , anyone can log in and delete the whole site at will , but still , it would be nice to see a few more details concerning particular page histories , I think . Best . Garry www.parkwild.com Who are these non-contributing administrators you speak of? The page wasn't removed by any administrator, contributing or otherwise. The wiki has mainly contained information about RS3D, not easily found in the official manual. The wiki was never intended to be a carbon-copy of the manual since that only raises unnecessary problems of maintaining consistency. Besides, what would be the point of having redundant information on the wiki? Now, to relate to the greeblez! page, the initial page was, in fact, the user-manual for Real Greeblez!. This was ok since, at that time, the script was shipped with no manual and there was no natural home for such a manual. This has changed, Real Greeblez! has a web site of it's own, this site is linked to from the image contest site and wikipedia. The Real Greeblez! script now ships with a manual and a tutorial that shows how to use the script. There is no need for copying the manual to the wiki, in fact, due to consistency problems, its presence on the wiki could, theoretically cause more damage than assistance. This means that the wiki can go back to be about things _not_ explicitly listed in the official manuals. If you want to make a tutorial about performing a specific task, that maybe nobody even thought about using Real Greeblez! for, feel free to make a new page for that. But I do not think that an outdated copy of the manual is helpful at all. As a final note, if you had taken the time to look at the page history you would have noticed that it was Zaug himself who removed the link to the page. And even though anyone can add and remove things from a wiki, I think that the author of the product has a little bit more than others to say about pages concerning his/her product. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz On 07/09/06, studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh my, Oww! That is a quite dated version; apparently composed prior to the complete rewrite/redesign and several additional small changes. It really should be removed if it is not to be updated. In my opinion that would be rather redundant as Real GreebleZ! has had proper, up to date, documentation since May; available at the source. http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 I looked for my page (above) on the wiki some time
Re: no wiki problem
Ok, I will stop talking to you now. Good luck in life. Or not. :| FreBer : Strive to make it easier , not more difficult . It's already so ... so incredibly difficult , this world of 3D creation , getting worse by the moment . My experience with the RS Wiki so far has been worse than trying 'POV by brail' . Of course _YOU_ can navigate easily , but what about the rest of the community ? Mark H. found my page when I could not . You have advise on how to find things that are now lost forever (unless one saves that particular mail) . The whole idea of the Wiki was to preserve vital information and it has failed so miserably at that one simple impetus that your last mail bearing bizzare directives only served to obscure even more . You volunteered your efforts (thanks) but ... open up your fucking mind just a tiny bit and ask what is the potential of the RS Wiki ? When an administrator responds with ridiculous instructions I have no choice but to say shut down the Wiki , at least until the community pushes for more vital info , more easily accesible info . If the community doesn't care ,well , I'll still say , shut it down instead of creating yet another stupid waste of pre- cious time . Garry No, you are correct, I think that only admins like myself and Matthias may remove a page completely - the page we are talking about is still there. Go to Special pages-All pages to see _all_ pages that are on the wiki. If an admin completely removes a page, however, it won't even appear here and the contents of the page will be lost forever. As for extending the Recent Changes, you can do that yourself by clicking the links at the top of the page. There you can increase the number of changes to show and how old the changes may be. If the numbers presented in there aren't enough, you can modify the URL directly: http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Special:Recentchangeslimit=500days=300 This will give you the latest 500 changes that are less than 300 days old. I suppose that you can exchange 500 and 300 with any number, within reason. If you don't want to type this in every time, you can bookmark the URL in your browser for easy access. If Matthias, as he is the only one with enough access, were to modify the PHP code of the Mediawiki to add more links on that page, he would make it more difficult to upgrade the wiki when that becomes necessary. It is best to minimise the number of such modifications. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz P.S. Note that, on the All pages page you can also easily see the duplicate pages I was bitching about a long time ago. I think most of the duplicates are sorted out, but some may still remain. Sorry , I thought only yourself had the means to comp- letely remove a Wiki page . My sincerest apologies . You also make good points about the pro's con's of simply copying info into the Wiki from a site that is in a constant state of being upgraded , without foll- owing the S/W's Doc upgrade timetable . Well , could we not extend the timeframe of the 'Recent Changes' tool ? Not fair in my opinion to have an author wondering who and what and why , without at least some small info about the date thier efforts were wiped out . Of course in theory , anyone can log in and delete the whole site at will , but still , it would be nice to see a few more details concerning particular page histories , I think . Best . Garry www.parkwild.com Who are these non-contributing administrators you speak of? The page wasn't removed by any administrator, contributing or otherwise. The wiki has mainly contained information about RS3D, not easily found in the official manual. The wiki was never intended to be a carbon-copy of the manual since that only raises unnecessary problems of maintaining consistency. Besides, what would be the point of having redundant information on the wiki? Now, to relate to the greeblez! page, the initial page was, in fact, the user-manual for Real Greeblez!. This was ok since, at that time, the script was shipped with no manual and there was no natural home for such a manual. This has changed, Real Greeblez! has a web site of it's own, this site is linked to from the image contest site and wikipedia. The Real Greeblez! script now ships with a manual and a tutorial that shows how to use the script. There is no need for copying the manual to the wiki, in fact, due to consistency problems, its presence on the wiki could, theoretically cause more damage than assistance. This means that the wiki can go back to be about things _not_ explicitly listed in the official manuals. If you want to make a tutorial about
Re: no wiki problem
No, you are correct, I think that only admins like myself and Matthias may remove a page completely - the page we are talking about is still there. Go to Special pages-All pages to see _all_ pages that are on the wiki. If an admin completely removes a page, however, it won't even appear here and the contents of the page will be lost forever. As for extending the Recent Changes, you can do that yourself by clicking the links at the top of the page. There you can increase the number of changes to show and how old the changes may be. If the numbers presented in there aren't enough, you can modify the URL directly: http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Special:Recentchangeslimit=500days=300 This will give you the latest 500 changes that are less than 300 days old. I suppose that you can exchange 500 and 300 with any number, within reason. If you don't want to type this in every time, you can bookmark the URL in your browser for easy access. If Matthias, as he is the only one with enough access, were to modify the PHP code of the Mediawiki to add more links on that page, he would make it more difficult to upgrade the wiki when that becomes necessary. It is best to minimise the number of such modifications. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz P.S. Note that, on the All pages page you can also easily see the duplicate pages I was bitching about a long time ago. I think most of the duplicates are sorted out, but some may still remain. On 11/09/06, studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Fredrik : Sorry , I thought only yourself had the means to comp- letely remove a Wiki page . My sincerest apologies . You also make good points about the pro's con's of simply copying info into the Wiki from a site that is in a constant state of being upgraded , without foll- owing the S/W's Doc upgrade timetable . Well , could we not extend the timeframe of the 'Recent Changes' tool ? Not fair in my opinion to have an author wondering who and what and why , without at least some small info about the date thier efforts were wiped out . Of course in theory , anyone can log in and delete the whole site at will , but still , it would be nice to see a few more details concerning particular page histories , I think . Best . Garry www.parkwild.com Who are these non-contributing administrators you speak of? The page wasn't removed by any administrator, contributing or otherwise. The wiki has mainly contained information about RS3D, not easily found in the official manual. The wiki was never intended to be a carbon-copy of the manual since that only raises unnecessary problems of maintaining consistency. Besides, what would be the point of having redundant information on the wiki? Now, to relate to the greeblez! page, the initial page was, in fact, the user-manual for Real Greeblez!. This was ok since, at that time, the script was shipped with no manual and there was no natural home for such a manual. This has changed, Real Greeblez! has a web site of it's own, this site is linked to from the image contest site and wikipedia. The Real Greeblez! script now ships with a manual and a tutorial that shows how to use the script. There is no need for copying the manual to the wiki, in fact, due to consistency problems, its presence on the wiki could, theoretically cause more damage than assistance. This means that the wiki can go back to be about things _not_ explicitly listed in the official manuals. If you want to make a tutorial about performing a specific task, that maybe nobody even thought about using Real Greeblez! for, feel free to make a new page for that. But I do not think that an outdated copy of the manual is helpful at all. As a final note, if you had taken the time to look at the page history you would have noticed that it was Zaug himself who removed the link to the page. And even though anyone can add and remove things from a wiki, I think that the author of the product has a little bit more than others to say about pages concerning his/her product. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz On 07/09/06, studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh my, Oww! That is a quite dated version; apparently composed prior to the complete rewrite/redesign and several additional small changes. It really should be removed if it is not to be updated. In my opinion that would be rather redundant as Real GreebleZ! has had proper, up to date, documentation since May; available at the source. http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 I looked for my page (above) on the wiki some time ago with the intention of updating it . Couldn't find it , so I gave up . If the page is that offensive , it could have easily been up- dated by deleting the nasty redundant content and add a link to http://www.catmtn.com/realgreeblez for-up-to-date-Doc's . That's the whole idea behind the wiki impetus . Edit , add , delete page content , modify ... perfect ! (verb) . It was
Re: no wiki problem
Hi Fredrik : Sorry , I thought only yourself had the means to comp- letely remove a Wiki page . My sincerest apologies . You also make good points about the pro's con's of simply copying info into the Wiki from a site that is in a constant state of being upgraded , without foll- owing the S/W's Doc upgrade timetable . Well , could we not extend the timeframe of the 'Recent Changes' tool ? Not fair in my opinion to have an author wondering who and what and why , without at least some small info about the date thier efforts were wiped out . Of course in theory , anyone can log in and delete the whole site at will , but still , it would be nice to see a few more details concerning particular page histories , I think . Best . Garry www.parkwild.com Who are these non-contributing administrators you speak of? The page wasn't removed by any administrator, contributing or otherwise. The wiki has mainly contained information about RS3D, not easily found in the official manual. The wiki was never intended to be a carbon-copy of the manual since that only raises unnecessary problems of maintaining consistency. Besides, what would be the point of having redundant information on the wiki? Now, to relate to the greeblez! page, the initial page was, in fact, the user-manual for Real Greeblez!. This was ok since, at that time, the script was shipped with no manual and there was no natural home for such a manual. This has changed, Real Greeblez! has a web site of it's own, this site is linked to from the image contest site and wikipedia. The Real Greeblez! script now ships with a manual and a tutorial that shows how to use the script. There is no need for copying the manual to the wiki, in fact, due to consistency problems, its presence on the wiki could, theoretically cause more damage than assistance. This means that the wiki can go back to be about things _not_ explicitly listed in the official manuals. If you want to make a tutorial about performing a specific task, that maybe nobody even thought about using Real Greeblez! for, feel free to make a new page for that. But I do not think that an outdated copy of the manual is helpful at all. As a final note, if you had taken the time to look at the page history you would have noticed that it was Zaug himself who removed the link to the page. And even though anyone can add and remove things from a wiki, I think that the author of the product has a little bit more than others to say about pages concerning his/her product. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz On 07/09/06, studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh my, Oww! That is a quite dated version; apparently composed prior to the complete rewrite/redesign and several additional small changes. It really should be removed if it is not to be updated. In my opinion that would be rather redundant as Real GreebleZ! has had proper, up to date, documentation since May; available at the source. http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 I looked for my page (above) on the wiki some time ago with the intention of updating it . Couldn't find it , so I gave up . If the page is that offensive , it could have easily been up- dated by deleting the nasty redundant content and add a link to http://www.catmtn.com/realgreeblez for-up-to-date-Doc's . That's the whole idea behind the wiki impetus . Edit , add , delete page content , modify ... perfect ! (verb) . It was not designed to give non-contributing administrators an opportunity to decide what should be and what should not . Oh well , such is life , n'est pas ? Zaug Garry -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.4/401 - Release Date: 7/26/2006
Re: no wiki problem
Who are these non-contributing administrators you speak of? The page wasn't removed by any administrator, contributing or otherwise. The wiki has mainly contained information about RS3D, not easily found in the official manual. The wiki was never intended to be a carbon-copy of the manual since that only raises unnecessary problems of maintaining consistency. Besides, what would be the point of having redundant information on the wiki? Now, to relate to the greeblez! page, the initial page was, in fact, the user-manual for Real Greeblez!. This was ok since, at that time, the script was shipped with no manual and there was no natural home for such a manual. This has changed, Real Greeblez! has a web site of it's own, this site is linked to from the image contest site and wikipedia. The Real Greeblez! script now ships with a manual and a tutorial that shows how to use the script. There is no need for copying the manual to the wiki, in fact, due to consistency problems, its presence on the wiki could, theoretically cause more damage than assistance. This means that the wiki can go back to be about things _not_ explicitly listed in the official manuals. If you want to make a tutorial about performing a specific task, that maybe nobody even thought about using Real Greeblez! for, feel free to make a new page for that. But I do not think that an outdated copy of the manual is helpful at all. As a final note, if you had taken the time to look at the page history you would have noticed that it was Zaug himself who removed the link to the page. And even though anyone can add and remove things from a wiki, I think that the author of the product has a little bit more than others to say about pages concerning his/her product. Regards, Fredrik Bergholtz On 07/09/06, studio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh my, Oww! That is a quite dated version; apparently composed prior to the complete rewrite/redesign and several additional small changes. It really should be removed if it is not to be updated. In my opinion that would be rather redundant as Real GreebleZ! has had proper, up to date, documentation since May; available at the source. http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 I looked for my page (above) on the wiki some time ago with the intention of updating it . Couldn't find it , so I gave up . If the page is that offensive , it could have easily been up- dated by deleting the nasty redundant content and add a link to http://www.catmtn.com/realgreeblez for-up-to-date-Doc's . That's the whole idea behind the wiki impetus . Edit , add , delete page content , modify ... perfect ! (verb) . It was not designed to give non-contributing administrators an opportunity to decide what should be and what should not . Oh well , such is life , n'est pas ? Zaug Garry
Re: no wiki problem
Wiki moved to http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info quite a long while ago. On 06/09/06, Arjo Rozendaal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what do you mean? as far as I can see the wiki is still up. Arjo. I was impressed enough at the time to sit down and create one of the first RS Wiki pages ; bringing RG'z to the attention of wiki surfers . That effort (still one of the very few efforts) appears to have been rendered null , for some reason . Yes , it's been deleted . Considered defunct by the Wiki powers that be , somehow ... I tried to track the deletion but I'm only allowed to see the changes that have occured over the last 30 days . (guess how many changes ? yep . zero) Makes you stop and think , doesn't it (I hope) ? Garry
Re: no wiki problem
Garry, is this it? http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 Couldn't find it at first, only after searching. Anyway: all efforts are always appreciated even if I'm in lurk mode for a while! -Mark H At 08:19 6-9-2006, you wrote: Wiki moved to http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info quite a long while ago. On 06/09/06, Arjo Rozendaal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what do you mean? as far as I can see the wiki is still up. Arjo. I was impressed enough at the time to sit down and create one of the first RS Wiki pages ; bringing RG'z to the attention of wiki surfers . That effort (still one of the very few efforts) appears to have been rendered null , for some reason . Yes , it's been deleted . Considered defunct by the Wiki powers that be , somehow ... I tried to track the deletion but I'm only allowed to see the changes that have occured over the last 30 days . (guess how many changes ? yep . zero) Makes you stop and think , doesn't it (I hope) ? Garry
Re: no wiki problem
Mark Heuymans wrote: Garry, is this it? http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 Couldn't find it at first, only after searching. Anyway: all efforts are always appreciated even if I'm in lurk mode for a while! -Mark H Oh my, Oww! That is a quite dated version; apparently composed prior to the complete rewrite/redesign and several additional small changes. It really should be removed if it is not to be updated. In my opinion that would be rather redundant as Real GreebleZ! has had proper, up to date, documentation since May; available at the source. Perhaps the wiki might adopt the links block that started as links on the contest site, then Richard put them on the Realman site, then I ripped them off of him and. http://www.catmtn.com/realgreeblez/rs_links_block.php Zaug The Real GreebleZ! powers that be (snicker ; ) -- My love of the halfling's leaf has clearly slowed my mind. |8?o
Re: no wiki problem
Garry, is this it? http://rs3dwiki.the-final.info/index.php?title=Real_GreebleZ%21 Couldn't find it at first, only after searching. Anyway: all efforts are always appreciated even if I'm in lurk mode for a while! -Mark H Hi Mark Thanks : Yes , but if you click on the what links here hyper-link on that page you'll see that there are no links to that page for the casual user . I couldn't even find it by searching . Doesn't matter anyway . Any further wiki efforts by myself will simply feature just a basic header and a link to an HTML page on my server . The wiki was a great concept , I think , but my experience there was a mostly negative one , generally . Seen this typi- cal scenario in politics of various kinds , local regional . From now on I will stick with what Realsoft inc. officially supports . On closer examination it appears that the wiki also has as much potential for harm , as good . Probably obvious to those with a commercial focus . To myself initially , I saw nothing but an excellent opportunity for the whole community to share specific information easily . Oh well . Garry
