RE: Next steps for Mesos

[Marcel Neuhausler]

Hello everyone,

At Institutional Shareholder Services we just rolled out additional Mesos 
clusters in two of our data-centers. Those are based on Mesos 1.11.0 running on 
Debian 11 (using cgroups v1).

Obviously I personally would like to see the community grow again, and also 
more than happy to contribute. Unfortunately it does seem like the 
Apache-process with all it different rules, policies, 
contributor/commiter/PMC-hierarchies and requirements does not provide enough 
flexibility needed right now to "jump-start"/resurrect the Mesos project. I 
also feel that the Mesos-brand/name itself could benefit from a refresher. Plus 
there are different ideas on how to slim-down/overhaul the source-code/project 
itself. Guess we are also considering maintaining our own branch, ideally as 
open-source.

Cheers,
--Marcel


On 2023/03/18 01:57:00 Qian Zhang wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'd like to restart the discussion around the future of the Mesos project.
> As you may already be aware, the Mesos community has been inactive for the
> last few years, there were only 3 contributors last year, that's obviously
> not enough to keep the project moving forward. I think we need at least 3
> active committers/PMC members and some active contributors to keep the
> project alive, or we may have to move it to attic
> .
> 
> Call for action: If you are the current committer/PMC member and still have
> the capacity to maintain the project, or if you are willing to actively
> contribute to the project as a contributor, please reply to this email,
> thanks!
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Qian Zhang
>

Re: Next steps for Mesos

[Dan Leary]

We're using mesos 1.11 straight out of the box on ubuntu 18.04 at touchplan.io 
running our own bespoke framework.  Would like to get it to ubuntu 22.04.  We 
have limited resources to commit to mesos development, but it's not totally out 
of the question.

-Dan


From: Benjamin Mahler 
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2023 2:55 PM
To: user@mesos.apache.org 
Cc: mesos ; priv...@mesos.apache.org 

Subject: Re: Next steps for Mesos

Also if you are still a user of mesos, please chime in.
Qian, it might be worth having a more explicit email asking users to chime in 
as this email was tailored more for contributors.

Twitter is still using mesos heavily, we upgraded from a branch based off of 
1.2.x to 1.9.x in 2021, but haven't upgraded to 1.11.x yet. We do have a lot of 
patches carried on our branch that have not been upstreamed. I would like to 
upstream them to avoid relying on many custom patches and to get closer to 
HEAD, but it will take time and quite a bit of work, and it's not a priority at 
the moment.

On the contribution side, at this point if I were to continue contributing, it 
would be on a volunteer basis, and I can't guarantee having enough time to do 
so.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 9:57 PM Qian Zhang 
mailto:zhq527...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I'd like to restart the discussion around the future of the Mesos project. As 
you may already be aware, the Mesos community has been inactive for the last 
few years, there were only 3 contributors last year, that's obviously not 
enough to keep the project moving forward. I think we need at least 3 active 
committers/PMC members and some active contributors to keep the project alive, 
or we may have to move it to attic<https://attic.apache.org/>.

Call for action: If you are the current committer/PMC member and still have the 
capacity to maintain the project, or if you are willing to actively contribute 
to the project as a contributor, please reply to this email, thanks!


Regards,
Qian Zhang

Re: Next steps for Mesos

[Andreas Peters]

Hi,

as you know Qian, I'm still on board. 

Andreas


On 18.03.23 02:57, Qian Zhang wrote:

Hi all,

I'd like to restart the discussion around the future of the Mesos project.
As you may already be aware, the Mesos community has been inactive for the
last few years, there were only 3 contributors last year, that's obviously
not enough to keep the project moving forward. I think we need at least 3
active committers/PMC members and some active contributors to keep the
project alive, or we may have to move it to attic
.

Call for action: If you are the current committer/PMC member and still have
the capacity to maintain the project, or if you are willing to actively
contribute to the project as a contributor, please reply to this email,
thanks!


Regards,
Qian Zhang



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Re: Re: Next steps for Mesos

[Thomas Langé via user]

Hello,

Criteo is still an active user of Mesos, running it worldwide for most of its 
production workloads.

We currently run a fork of Mesos 1.9.x (with some patches that were not 
upstreamed but not that much), and we don't plan to upgrade to the latest 
version for now.

We will continue to propose patches regularly upstream when possible, but can't 
really commit on actively contributing on particular needs in Mesos ecosystem.

Regards,

Thomas Langé

From: Benjamin Mahler 
Sent: Monday, 20 March 2023 19:55
To: user@mesos.apache.org 
Cc: mesos ; priv...@mesos.apache.org 

Subject: [BULK]Re: Next steps for Mesos

Also if you are still a user of mesos, please chime in.
Qian, it might be worth having a more explicit email asking users to chime in 
as this email was tailored more for contributors.

Twitter is still using mesos heavily, we upgraded from a branch based off of 
1.2.x to 1.9.x in 2021, but haven't upgraded to 1.11.x yet. We do have a lot of 
patches carried on our branch that have not been upstreamed. I would like to 
upstream them to avoid relying on many custom patches and to get closer to 
HEAD, but it will take time and quite a bit of work, and it's not a priority at 
the moment.

On the contribution side, at this point if I were to continue contributing, it 
would be on a volunteer basis, and I can't guarantee having enough time to do 
so.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 9:57 PM Qian Zhang 
mailto:zhq527...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I'd like to restart the discussion around the future of the Mesos project. As 
you may already be aware, the Mesos community has been inactive for the last 
few years, there were only 3 contributors last year, that's obviously not 
enough to keep the project moving forward. I think we need at least 3 active 
committers/PMC members and some active contributors to keep the project alive, 
or we may have to move it to 
attic<https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fattic.apache.org%2F=05%7C01%7Ct.lange%40criteo.com%7C6e782bd9b402421896d608db2974e0de%7C2a35d8fd574d48e3927c8c398e225a01%7C1%7C0%7C638149354183246959%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=2QLjvfO3KRuvcwcZCEnFFwWGLaBz%2BIY7Yi2K%2Bw1Lm5A%3D=0>.

Call for action: If you are the current committer/PMC member and still have the 
capacity to maintain the project, or if you are willing to actively contribute 
to the project as a contributor, please reply to this email, thanks!


Regards,
Qian Zhang

RE: Next steps for Mesos

[GATOUILLAT Pierre Damien (PRESTA EXT)]

Hi,

We are using mesos/marathon here, version 1.9.x under RHEL7. Migrating to 
1.11.x as we migrate to RHEL8.  I wonder if it is safe to compile the actual 
master branch to use in production. (1.12 version)

Regards,
Pierre

De : Benjamin Mahler 
Envoyé : lundi 20 mars 2023 19:56
À : user@mesos.apache.org
Cc : mesos ; priv...@mesos.apache.org
Objet : Re: Next steps for Mesos

Also if you are still a user of mesos, please chime in.
Qian, it might be worth having a more explicit email asking users to chime in 
as this email was tailored more for contributors.

Twitter is still using mesos heavily, we upgraded from a branch based off of 
1.2.x to 1.9.x in 2021, but haven't upgraded to 1.11.x yet. We do have a lot of 
patches carried on our branch that have not been upstreamed. I would like to 
upstream them to avoid relying on many custom patches and to get closer to 
HEAD, but it will take time and quite a bit of work, and it's not a priority at 
the moment.

On the contribution side, at this point if I were to continue contributing, it 
would be on a volunteer basis, and I can't guarantee having enough time to do 
so.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 9:57 PM Qian Zhang 
mailto:zhq527...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi all,

I'd like to restart the discussion around the future of the Mesos project. As 
you may already be aware, the Mesos community has been inactive for the last 
few years, there were only 3 contributors last year, that's obviously not 
enough to keep the project moving forward. I think we need at least 3 active 
committers/PMC members and some active contributors to keep the project alive, 
or we may have to move it to attic<https://attic.apache.org/>.

Call for action: If you are the current committer/PMC member and still have the 
capacity to maintain the project, or if you are willing to actively contribute 
to the project as a contributor, please reply to this email, thanks!


Regards,
Qian Zhang
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Re: Next steps for Mesos

[Benjamin Mahler]

Also if you are still a user of mesos, please chime in.
Qian, it might be worth having a more explicit email asking users to chime
in as this email was tailored more for contributors.

Twitter is still using mesos heavily, we upgraded from a branch based off
of 1.2.x to 1.9.x in 2021, but haven't upgraded to 1.11.x yet. We do have a
lot of patches carried on our branch that have not been upstreamed. I would
like to upstream them to avoid relying on many custom patches and to
get closer to HEAD, but it will take time and quite a bit of work, and it's
not a priority at the moment.

On the contribution side, at this point if I were to continue contributing,
it would be on a volunteer basis, and I can't guarantee having enough time
to do so.

On Fri, Mar 17, 2023 at 9:57 PM Qian Zhang  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to restart the discussion around the future of the Mesos project.
> As you may already be aware, the Mesos community has been inactive for the
> last few years, there were only 3 contributors last year, that's obviously
> not enough to keep the project moving forward. I think we need at least 3
> active committers/PMC members and some active contributors to keep the
> project alive, or we may have to move it to attic
> .
>
> Call for action: If you are the current committer/PMC member and still
> have the capacity to maintain the project, or if you are willing to
> actively contribute to the project as a contributor, please reply to this
> email, thanks!
>
>
> Regards,
> Qian Zhang
>

Re: Next Steps

[Vinod Kone]

>
>
> How many man hours where spend on mesos in 2020, 2019 and 2018?
>
>
Roughly 5-6 ppl (in 2020),10-11 (in 2019), 16-18 (in 2018)

RE: Next Steps

[Marc]

> 
> Most existing PMC members who have chimed in so far seemed to be in
> favor of moving the project to Attic. The exception is Qian (who is
> willing to step up to be the new PMC chair, thanks Qian!). The main
> argument for this seems to be that it'll be hard to re-activate the
> project at this juncture with new PMC members / committers. Also that it

Yes, Qian great to read this, thanks!

> signals the current state of the project more accurately.
> 
> Re-activate:
> There are some active users in the community who would like to see this
> project stay alive and are even willing to step up to become committers
> / contributors. Some of these users are working for companies who are
> using Mesos in production. They would like to know potential new roadmap
> (there is a separate thread going on for this) and manpower needed (my
> take is 6-8 ppl to cover different areas of the project).
> 

How many man hours where spend on mesos in 2020, 2019 and 2018?

Re: Next Steps

[Vinod Kone]

Hi folks,

Sorry for the radio silence on my part for the last couple weeks. My Apache
emails were not getting delivered to my inbox due to some filter mixup on
my end. Sorry about that.

I've read through the various threads and here's how I summarize the
situation. We basically have 2 camps

*Attic:*
Most existing PMC members who have chimed in so far seemed to be in favor
of moving the project to Attic. The exception is Qian (who is willing to
step up to be the new PMC chair, thanks Qian!). The main argument for this
seems to be that it'll be hard to re-activate the project at this juncture
with new PMC members / committers. Also that it signals the current state
of the project more accurately.

*Re-activate:*
There are some active users in the community who would like to see this
project stay alive and are even willing to step up to become committers /
contributors. Some of these users are working for companies who are using
Mesos in production. They would like to know potential new roadmap (there
is a separate thread going on for this) and manpower needed (my take is 6-8
ppl to cover different areas of the project).

*My take:*

In addition to the public threads, we've had a thread on our private
mailing list to see which of the current committers are interested in being
active. And so far that thread has gotten *0* responses. This is
unfortunate because, except for Qian no existing committer/PMC members are
willing or able to contribute or mentor new contributors.

Additionally, the current guidelines
<http://mesos.apache.org/documentation/latest/committers/> we have for
adding new committers is a pretty high bar and I don't think any of the
current contributors would be immediately eligible to be voted in as
committers. This means we either need to change the guidelines or we should
have some existing committers mentor some of the contributors into
committers. Given the lack of commitment from most of the existing PMC,
this will fall solely on Qian's shoulders which is quite a burden.

Since the existing committers are unable or unwilling to mentor new
contributors into new committers, I think moving the project to attic is
the right move. If there is no objection to this, I'm happy to call a vote
for this.

We could still explore the possibility of activating "
https://github.com/mesos/mesos; as the one true fork outside of ASF so that
the interested parties can still contribute and collaborate. And if the
project continues to thrive here, we can reach back out to ASF to
re-activate the project, down the line.

Thanks,


On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 7:45 AM Damien GERARD  wrote:

> On 2021-02-26 09:05 PM, Charles-François Natali wrote:
> > As mentioned before I'd also be happy to contribute.
> >
> > Concretely, what's the next step to move this forward?
> >
> > On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, 11:15 Thomas Langé,  wrote:
> >
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I'm part of Criteo team as well, and as Grégoire said, we plan to
> >> support Mesos internally for some time. I would like to
> >> propose my help as well as a committer, and contribute as much as I
> >> can to this project.
>
> At Rakuten we also have a couple of clusters. As also mentionned before,
> happy to contribute.
> But yeah, need a plan of action :p
>
>
> >>
> >> Br,
> >>
> >> Thomas
> >>
> >> -
> >>
> >> From: Grégoire Seux 
> >> Sent: Friday, 26 February 2021 11:12
> >> To: priv...@mesos.apache.org ; dev
> >> ; user 
> >> Subject: Re: Next Steps
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> here at Criteo, we heavily use Mesos and plan to do so for a
> >> foreseeable future alongside other alternatives.
> >> I am ok to become committer and help the project if you are looking
> >> for contributors.
> >> It seems finding committers will be doable but finding a PMC chair
> >> will be difficult.
> >>
> >> To give some context on our usage, Criteo is running 12 Mesos
> >> cluster running a light fork of Mesos 1.9.x.
> >> Each cluster has 10+ distinct marathons frameworks, a flink
> >> framework, an instance of Aurora and an in-house framework.
> >> We strongly appreciate the ability to scale the number of nodes
> >> (3500 on the largest cluster and growing), the simplicity of the
> >> project overall and the extensibility through modules.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Grégoire
>
> --
> Damien GERARD
>

Re: Next Steps

[Damien GERARD]

On 2021-02-26 09:05 PM, Charles-François Natali wrote:

As mentioned before I'd also be happy to contribute.

Concretely, what's the next step to move this forward?

On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, 11:15 Thomas Langé,  wrote:


Hello,

I'm part of Criteo team as well, and as Grégoire said, we plan to
support Mesos internally for some time. I would like to
propose my help as well as a committer, and contribute as much as I
can to this project.


At Rakuten we also have a couple of clusters. As also mentionned before, 
happy to contribute.

But yeah, need a plan of action :p




Br,

Thomas

-

From: Grégoire Seux 
Sent: Friday, 26 February 2021 11:12
To: priv...@mesos.apache.org ; dev
; user 
Subject: Re: Next Steps

Hello all,

here at Criteo, we heavily use Mesos and plan to do so for a
foreseeable future alongside other alternatives.
I am ok to become committer and help the project if you are looking
for contributors.
It seems finding committers will be doable but finding a PMC chair
will be difficult.

To give some context on our usage, Criteo is running 12 Mesos
cluster running a light fork of Mesos 1.9.x.
Each cluster has 10+ distinct marathons frameworks, a flink
framework, an instance of Aurora and an in-house framework.
We strongly appreciate the ability to scale the number of nodes
(3500 on the largest cluster and growing), the simplicity of the
project overall and the extensibility through modules.

--

Grégoire


--
Damien GERARD

Re: Next Steps

[Charles-François Natali]

As mentioned before I'd also be happy to contribute.

Concretely, what's the next step to move this forward?



On Fri, 26 Feb 2021, 11:15 Thomas Langé,  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm part of Criteo team as well, and as Grégoire said, we plan to support
> Mesos internally for some time. I would like to
> propose my help as well as a committer, and contribute as much as I can to
> this project.
>
> Br,
>
> Thomas
> --
> *From:* Grégoire Seux 
> *Sent:* Friday, 26 February 2021 11:12
> *To:* priv...@mesos.apache.org ; dev <
> d...@mesos.apache.org>; user 
> *Subject:* Re: Next Steps
>
> Hello all,
>
> here at Criteo, we heavily use Mesos and plan to do so for a foreseeable
> future alongside other alternatives.
> I am ok to become committer and help the project if you are looking for
> contributors.
> It seems finding committers will be doable but finding a PMC chair will be
> difficult.
>
> To give some context on our usage, Criteo is running 12 Mesos cluster
> running a light fork of Mesos 1.9.x.
> Each cluster has 10+ distinct marathons frameworks, a flink framework, an
> instance of Aurora and an in-house framework.
> We strongly appreciate the ability to scale the number of nodes (3500 on
> the largest cluster and growing), the simplicity of the project overall and
> the extensibility through modules.
>
> --
> Grégoire
>

Re: Next Steps

[Thomas Langé]

Hello,

I'm part of Criteo team as well, and as Grégoire said, we plan to support Mesos 
internally for some time. I would like to
propose my help as well as a committer, and contribute as much as I can to this 
project.

Br,

Thomas

From: Grégoire Seux 
Sent: Friday, 26 February 2021 11:12
To: priv...@mesos.apache.org ; dev 
; user 
Subject: Re: Next Steps

Hello all,

here at Criteo, we heavily use Mesos and plan to do so for a foreseeable future 
alongside other alternatives.
I am ok to become committer and help the project if you are looking for 
contributors.
It seems finding committers will be doable but finding a PMC chair will be 
difficult.

To give some context on our usage, Criteo is running 12 Mesos cluster running a 
light fork of Mesos 1.9.x.
Each cluster has 10+ distinct marathons frameworks, a flink framework, an 
instance of Aurora and an in-house framework.
We strongly appreciate the ability to scale the number of nodes (3500 on the 
largest cluster and growing), the simplicity of the project overall and the 
extensibility through modules.

--
Grégoire

Re: Next Steps

[Grégoire Seux]

Hello all,

here at Criteo, we heavily use Mesos and plan to do so for a foreseeable future 
alongside other alternatives.
I am ok to become committer and help the project if you are looking for 
contributors.
It seems finding committers will be doable but finding a PMC chair will be 
difficult.

To give some context on our usage, Criteo is running 12 Mesos cluster running a 
light fork of Mesos 1.9.x.
Each cluster has 10+ distinct marathons frameworks, a flink framework, an 
instance of Aurora and an in-house framework.
We strongly appreciate the ability to scale the number of nodes (3500 on the 
largest cluster and growing), the simplicity of the project overall and the 
extensibility through modules.

--
Grégoire

Re: Next Steps

[Javi Roman]

I'm thinking we can create a document in the
http://mesos.apache.org/documentation/latest/design-docs/ section (Drive
document) as a central point for discussing the roadmap and future of a new
Mesos era.

A lot of interesting things we can do, I have IMHO interesting ideas
regarding Mesos and edge devices (embedded systems) and other things we can
discuss.

Let's reboot this awesome project.
--
Javi Roman

Twitter: @javiromanrh
GitHub: github.com/javiroman
Linkedin: es.linkedin.com/in/javiroman
Big Data Blog: dataintensive.info


On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 11:05 PM Vinod Kone  wrote:

> Good to see some interest in helping with project maintenance.
>
> Qian can you start a new email about figuring out the roadmap for the
> project?
>
> Thanks,
> Vinod
>
> > On Feb 18, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Charles-François Natali <
> cf.nat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Speaking as someone who contributed a few patches and would like to get
> > more involved, I find it a bit difficult to get MRs reviewed and merged.
> > I think it's probably because the current committers have other
> priorities
> > now that D2iQ focus has shifted, which is understandable but makes it
> > harder for outsiders to contribute.
> > Is there anything which could be done about that?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 14:30 Qian Zhang,  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Vinod,
> >>
> >> I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we need to
> have
> >> a direction for the project. I think there are still a lot of Mesos
> >> users/customers in the mail list, can you please send another mail to
> >> collect their requirements / pain points on Mesos, and then we can try
> to
> >> set up a roadmap for the project to move forward.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Qian Zhang
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko <
> asekrete...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have active users
> >>> and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.
> >>>
> >>> Key items about moving project to Attic:
>  It is not intended to:
>  - Rebuild community
>  - Make bugfixes
>  - Make releases
> >>>
>  Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a release, who
> have
> >>> no active committers or are unable to fulfill their reporting duties
> to the
> >>> board are all good candidates for the Attic.
> >>>
> >>> As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug critical for our
> >>> customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should the project be
> >>> moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks (which might
> >>> mean our internal forks).
> >>>
> >>> I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos are in a
> >>> similar position with regards to bugfixes.
> >>> If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the near future
> >>> is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient bandwidth of the
> >>> active PMC members/chair.
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> A long-term future of the project is a different story, which, in my
> >>> personal view, will "end" either in moving the project into Attic or
> >>> in shifting the project direction from what it used to be in the
> >>> recent few years to something substantially different. IMO, this
> >>> requires a  _separate_ discussion.
> >>>
> >>> Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
> >>> discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC member
> >>> perspective when I have enough time.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
> >>>  wrote:
> 
>  Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
>  It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on
> >>> since it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
>  I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
>  I hope it can be avoided.
> 
> 
>  Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
>  On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski, 
> >>> wrote:
> >
> > Moving to attic is making project read only
> > https://attic.apache.org/
> > https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
> >
> > czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
> >>> cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:
> >>
> >> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
> >> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier, 
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Vinod,
> >>>
>  I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
> >>> project.
> 
>  As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
> >>> contributors
>  to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
> >>> there's
>  no active development of any features or a public release
> >>> planned. On the
>  flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still
> >>> actively
> 

Re: Next Steps

[Vinod Kone]

Good to see some interest in helping with project maintenance. 

Qian can you start a new email about figuring out the roadmap for the project?

Thanks,
Vinod

> On Feb 18, 2021, at 11:18 AM, Charles-François Natali  
> wrote:
> 
> Speaking as someone who contributed a few patches and would like to get
> more involved, I find it a bit difficult to get MRs reviewed and merged.
> I think it's probably because the current committers have other priorities
> now that D2iQ focus has shifted, which is understandable but makes it
> harder for outsiders to contribute.
> Is there anything which could be done about that?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 14:30 Qian Zhang,  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Vinod,
>> 
>> I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we need to have
>> a direction for the project. I think there are still a lot of Mesos
>> users/customers in the mail list, can you please send another mail to
>> collect their requirements / pain points on Mesos, and then we can try to
>> set up a roadmap for the project to move forward.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Qian Zhang
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have active users
>>> and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.
>>> 
>>> Key items about moving project to Attic:
 It is not intended to:
 - Rebuild community
 - Make bugfixes
 - Make releases
>>> 
 Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a release, who have
>>> no active committers or are unable to fulfill their reporting duties to the
>>> board are all good candidates for the Attic.
>>> 
>>> As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug critical for our
>>> customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should the project be
>>> moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks (which might
>>> mean our internal forks).
>>> 
>>> I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos are in a
>>> similar position with regards to bugfixes.
>>> If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the near future
>>> is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient bandwidth of the
>>> active PMC members/chair.
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> A long-term future of the project is a different story, which, in my
>>> personal view, will "end" either in moving the project into Attic or
>>> in shifting the project direction from what it used to be in the
>>> recent few years to something substantially different. IMO, this
>>> requires a  _separate_ discussion.
>>> 
>>> Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
>>> discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC member
>>> perspective when I have enough time.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
>>>  wrote:
 
 Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
 It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on
>>> since it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
 I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
 I hope it can be avoided.
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 
 
 On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski, 
>>> wrote:
> 
> Moving to attic is making project read only
> https://attic.apache.org/
> https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
> 
> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
>>> cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:
>> 
>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier, 
>>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Vinod,
>>> 
 I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
>>> project.
 
 As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
>>> contributors
 to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
>>> there's
 no active development of any features or a public release
>>> planned. On the
 flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still
>>> actively
>>> using
 Mesos.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
>>> lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot
>>> in
>>> the last 12+ months.
>>> 
 Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the
>>> community to
>>> keep
 this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active
>>> committers
 and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally,
>>> these would
 be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
 contributions.
>>> 
>>> While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in
>>> the
>>> last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
>>> community at this point.
>>> 
>>> Apache Mesos is still mentioned 

RE: Next Steps

[marc]

Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number of
other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
maintained project.


Indeed that is how I have been caught. This should have been 
communicated way earlier.



In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos these
days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to change
should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would be
to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the 
project
has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from using 
or
further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to 
users.


I wonder what the apache foundation role in all this is. If you put a 
your stamp on a project, I was expecting there would be some 
oversight/quality control on it. So the current situation would be 
prevented. Since using mesos, I have always wondered how the project 
could have been developed only with the interests of mesossphere/d2iq in 
mind (my impression).


Now the change from messossphere to D2iq also makes sense. I guess 
writing of mesos had been in the planning for quite some time.


FWIW I do enjoy using mesos (although I am constantly whining about 
getting stateful tasks with ceph), but I am only launching tasks via 
marathon. So I am dependant on that as well.
If I would get my funding for my new project. I would also commit 
developers to the project, probably even long term. But I decided that 
already long time ago.

RE: Next Steps

[F1 marc]

I am not really familiar with how apache projects are managed, so maybe 
forgive me for asking.


But with this voting, is excluded the possibility that D2iQ is voting 
against, because with mesos gone more users possible migrate to their 
'new' product/service?





-Original Message-
Sent: 18 February 2021 21:09
To: user@mesos.apache.org
Subject: Re: Next Steps

Some perspective from someone who went through something similar with
Apache Aurora:


It's not as simple as electing new committers. It takes time to develop
the trust needed to add new members to the PMC, and that's the most
important aspect of keeping the project going under Apache (my
opinion/experience). Apache rules dictate that there must be 3 *active*
PMC members at all times.

Anything that the project does requires at least 3 PMC members to give 
a

+1. What happened to us in Aurora was that we got to a place where
people didn't want to see it die so we kept putting off moving the
Apache version of the project to the Attic and rebooting as a 
standalone

project.

There were several reasons for eventually moving the project to the
Attic but the most important one being we ran out of folks with enough
history with the project to step into the PMC role. The folks that did
step up, through no fault of their own, did not have the time to
dedicate to the project (I can only imagine Mesos demands way more time
than Aurora behind the scenes).

So all official operations ended up taking for ever due to the 
challenge

of finding the minimum number of votes, the overhead of writing reports
about the project status (not a huge burden, but someone has to do it),
and eventually, it was impossible to do anything. It was consistently
back to square one and trying to find PMC candidates until none were
left.

And then it basically becomes a bootstrapping problem as Charles-
François Natal is experiencing right now. That is to say, you can't get
new contributors to shepherd into committer and into the PMC if you
don't have an active PMC.


I'm not saying Aurora is/was as popular of a project as Mesos, but I am
saying the reality is that it's hard to find the right folks to take 
the

reins this late in the game. Especially when so many qualified
contributors are moving on.


Given the circumstances, including Vinod looking to step down and D2iQ
sunsetting Mesos, and with many of the former contributors moving on, I
very much agree with Benjamin Bannier suggestion to move the project
into the Attic.


If someone still has the keys to https://github.com/mesos/ , an option
would be to revive that org and continue quality of life updates to
Mesos there.

Re: Next Steps

[Kevin Klues]

Hello old friends. Long time no hear.

+1 (binding)

Haven't written that in a while...

I also think moving it to the attic (as far as Apache is concerned) makes a
lot of sense.
It can have a life of its own on github (without the overhead of Apache
PMC, requirements for voting, etc.)

Kevin

Am Do., 18. Feb. 2021 um 21:27 Uhr schrieb Till Toenshoff :

> +1 to what Renan (and Benjamin) suggested.
>
>

-- 
~Kevin

Re: Next Steps

[Till Toenshoff]

+1 to what Renan (and Benjamin) suggested.

Re: Next Steps

[Renan DelValle]

Some perspective from someone who went through something similar with 
Apache Aurora:


It's not as simple as electing new committers. It takes time to develop 
the trust needed to add new members to the PMC, and that's the most 
important aspect of keeping the project going under Apache (my 
opinion/experience). Apache rules dictate that there must be 3 *active* 
PMC members at all times.


Anything that the project does requires at least 3 PMC members to give a 
+1. What happened to us in Aurora was that we got to a place where 
people didn't want to see it die so we kept putting off moving the 
Apache version of the project to the Attic and rebooting as a standalone 
project.


There were several reasons for eventually moving the project to the 
Attic but the most important one being we ran out of folks with enough 
history with the project to step into the PMC role. The folks that did 
step up, through no fault of their own, did not have the time to 
dedicate to the project (I can only imagine Mesos demands way more time 
than Aurora behind the scenes).


So all official operations ended up taking for ever due to the challenge 
of finding the minimum number of votes, the overhead of writing reports 
about the project status (not a huge burden, but someone has to do it), 
and eventually, it was impossible to do anything. It was consistently 
back to square one and trying to find PMC candidates until none were left.


And then it basically becomes a bootstrapping problem as 
Charles-François Natal is experiencing right now. That is to say, you 
can't get new contributors to shepherd into committer and into the PMC 
if you don't have an active PMC.


I'm not saying Aurora is/was as popular of a project as Mesos, but I am 
saying the reality is that it's hard to find the right folks to take the 
reins this late in the game. Especially when so many qualified 
contributors are moving on.


Given the circumstances, including Vinod looking to step down and D2iQ 
sunsetting Mesos, and with many of the former contributors moving on, I 
very much agree with Benjamin Bannier suggestion to move the project 
into the Attic.


If someone still has the keys to https://github.com/mesos/ , an option 
would be to revive that org and continue quality of life updates to 
Mesos there.


-Renan

On 2/18/21 10:49 AM, Tomek Janiszewski wrote:
I think we can elect new committers. Currently we have 49 but most of 
them have left the project long ago.

https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?mesos

czw., 18 lut 2021 o 18:18 Charles-François Natali > napisał(a):


Speaking as someone who contributed a few patches and would like
to get more involved, I find it a bit difficult to get MRs
reviewed and merged.
I think it's probably because the current committers have other
priorities now that D2iQ focus has shifted, which is
understandable but makes it harder for outsiders to contribute.
Is there anything which could be done about that?

Cheers,



On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 14:30 Qian Zhang, mailto:zhq527...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Vinod,

I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we
need to have a direction for the project. I think there are
still a lot of Mesos users/customers in the mail list, can you
please send another mail to collect their requirements / pain
points on Mesos, and then we can try to set up a roadmap for
the project to move forward.


Regards,
Qian Zhang


On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko
mailto:asekrete...@apache.org>> wrote:

IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have
active users
and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.

Key items about moving project to Attic:
> It is not intended to:
> - Rebuild community
> - Make bugfixes
> - Make releases

>Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a
release, who have no active committers or are unable to
fulfill their reporting duties to the board are all good
candidates for the Attic.

As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug
critical for our
customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should
the project be
moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks
(which might
mean our internal forks).

I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos
are in a
similar position with regards to bugfixes.
If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the
near future
is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient
bandwidth of the
active PMC members/chair.

---
A long-term future of the 

Re: Next Steps

[Tomek Janiszewski]

I think we can elect new committers. Currently we have 49 but most of them
have left the project long ago.
https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?mesos

czw., 18 lut 2021 o 18:18 Charles-François Natali 
napisał(a):

> Speaking as someone who contributed a few patches and would like to get
> more involved, I find it a bit difficult to get MRs reviewed and merged.
> I think it's probably because the current committers have other priorities
> now that D2iQ focus has shifted, which is understandable but makes it
> harder for outsiders to contribute.
> Is there anything which could be done about that?
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 14:30 Qian Zhang,  wrote:
>
>> Hi Vinod,
>>
>> I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we need to
>> have a direction for the project. I think there are still a lot of Mesos
>> users/customers in the mail list, can you please send another mail to
>> collect their requirements / pain points on Mesos, and then we can try to
>> set up a roadmap for the project to move forward.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Qian Zhang
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have active users
>>> and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.
>>>
>>> Key items about moving project to Attic:
>>> > It is not intended to:
>>> > - Rebuild community
>>> > - Make bugfixes
>>> > - Make releases
>>>
>>> >Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a release, who have
>>> no active committers or are unable to fulfill their reporting duties to the
>>> board are all good candidates for the Attic.
>>>
>>> As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug critical for our
>>> customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should the project be
>>> moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks (which might
>>> mean our internal forks).
>>>
>>> I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos are in a
>>> similar position with regards to bugfixes.
>>> If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the near future
>>> is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient bandwidth of the
>>> active PMC members/chair.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> A long-term future of the project is a different story, which, in my
>>> personal view, will "end" either in moving the project into Attic or
>>> in shifting the project direction from what it used to be in the
>>> recent few years to something substantially different. IMO, this
>>> requires a  _separate_ discussion.
>>>
>>> Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
>>> discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC member
>>> perspective when I have enough time.
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
>>>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
>>> > It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on
>>> since it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
>>> > I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
>>> > I hope it can be avoided.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski, 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Moving to attic is making project read only
>>> >> https://attic.apache.org/
>>> >> https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
>>> >>
>>> >> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
>>> cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
>>> >>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier, 
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> > Hi Vinod,
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
>>> >>> > project.
>>> >>> > >
>>> >>> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
>>> >>> > contributors
>>> >>> > > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of
>>> today,
>>> >>> > there's
>>> >>> > > no active development of any features or a public release
>>> planned. On the
>>> >>> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still
>>> actively
>>> >>> > using
>>> >>> > > Mesos.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack,
>>> mailing
>>> >>> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a
>>> lot in
>>> >>> > the last 12+ months.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the
>>> community to
>>> >>> > keep
>>> >>> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active
>>> committers
>>> >>> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally,
>>> these would
>>> >>> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
>>> >>> > > contributions.
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in
>>> the
>>> >>> > last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
>>> >>> > community at 

Re: Next Steps

[Charles-François Natali]

Speaking as someone who contributed a few patches and would like to get
more involved, I find it a bit difficult to get MRs reviewed and merged.
I think it's probably because the current committers have other priorities
now that D2iQ focus has shifted, which is understandable but makes it
harder for outsiders to contribute.
Is there anything which could be done about that?

Cheers,



On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 14:30 Qian Zhang,  wrote:

> Hi Vinod,
>
> I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we need to have
> a direction for the project. I think there are still a lot of Mesos
> users/customers in the mail list, can you please send another mail to
> collect their requirements / pain points on Mesos, and then we can try to
> set up a roadmap for the project to move forward.
>
>
> Regards,
> Qian Zhang
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko 
> wrote:
>
>> IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have active users
>> and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.
>>
>> Key items about moving project to Attic:
>> > It is not intended to:
>> > - Rebuild community
>> > - Make bugfixes
>> > - Make releases
>>
>> >Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a release, who have
>> no active committers or are unable to fulfill their reporting duties to the
>> board are all good candidates for the Attic.
>>
>> As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug critical for our
>> customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should the project be
>> moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks (which might
>> mean our internal forks).
>>
>> I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos are in a
>> similar position with regards to bugfixes.
>> If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the near future
>> is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient bandwidth of the
>> active PMC members/chair.
>>
>> ---
>> A long-term future of the project is a different story, which, in my
>> personal view, will "end" either in moving the project into Attic or
>> in shifting the project direction from what it used to be in the
>> recent few years to something substantially different. IMO, this
>> requires a  _separate_ discussion.
>>
>> Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
>> discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC member
>> perspective when I have enough time.
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
>>  wrote:
>> >
>> > Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
>> > It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on
>> since it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
>> > I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
>> > I hope it can be avoided.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski, 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Moving to attic is making project read only
>> >> https://attic.apache.org/
>> >> https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
>> >>
>> >> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
>> cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
>> >>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier, 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > Hi Vinod,
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
>> >>> > project.
>> >>> > >
>> >>> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
>> >>> > contributors
>> >>> > > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
>> >>> > there's
>> >>> > > no active development of any features or a public release
>> planned. On the
>> >>> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still
>> actively
>> >>> > using
>> >>> > > Mesos.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
>> >>> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot
>> in
>> >>> > the last 12+ months.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the
>> community to
>> >>> > keep
>> >>> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active
>> committers
>> >>> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally,
>> these would
>> >>> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
>> >>> > > contributions.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in
>> the
>> >>> > last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
>> >>> > community at this point.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number
>> of
>> >>> > other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
>> >>> > maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
>> >>> > available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos
>> these
>> >>> > days is probably not a 

Re: Next Steps

[Qian Zhang]

Hi Vinod,

I am still interested in the project. As other folks said, we need to have
a direction for the project. I think there are still a lot of Mesos
users/customers in the mail list, can you please send another mail to
collect their requirements / pain points on Mesos, and then we can try to
set up a roadmap for the project to move forward.


Regards,
Qian Zhang


On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 9:16 PM Andrei Sekretenko 
wrote:

> IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have active users
> and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.
>
> Key items about moving project to Attic:
> > It is not intended to:
> > - Rebuild community
> > - Make bugfixes
> > - Make releases
>
> >Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a release, who have
> no active committers or are unable to fulfill their reporting duties to the
> board are all good candidates for the Attic.
>
> As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug critical for our
> customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should the project be
> moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks (which might
> mean our internal forks).
>
> I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos are in a
> similar position with regards to bugfixes.
> If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the near future
> is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient bandwidth of the
> active PMC members/chair.
>
> ---
> A long-term future of the project is a different story, which, in my
> personal view, will "end" either in moving the project into Attic or
> in shifting the project direction from what it used to be in the
> recent few years to something substantially different. IMO, this
> requires a  _separate_ discussion.
>
> Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
> discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC member
> perspective when I have enough time.
>
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
>  wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
> > It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on
> since it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
> > I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
> > I hope it can be avoided.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski,  wrote:
> >>
> >> Moving to attic is making project read only
> >> https://attic.apache.org/
> >> https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
> >>
> >> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
> cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:
> >>>
> >>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
> >>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier, 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > Hi Vinod,
> >>> >
> >>> > > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
> >>> > project.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
> >>> > contributors
> >>> > > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
> >>> > there's
> >>> > > no active development of any features or a public release planned.
> On the
> >>> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still
> actively
> >>> > using
> >>> > > Mesos.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
> >>> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot
> in
> >>> > the last 12+ months.
> >>> >
> >>> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community
> to
> >>> > keep
> >>> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active
> committers
> >>> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally,
> these would
> >>> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
> >>> > > contributions.
> >>> >
> >>> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in the
> >>> > last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
> >>> > community at this point.
> >>> >
> >>> > Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number
> of
> >>> > other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
> >>> > maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
> >>> > available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos
> these
> >>> > days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to
> change
> >>> > should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would
> be
> >>> > to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the
> project
> >>> > has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from
> using or
> >>> > further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to
> users.
> >>> >
> >>> > > If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out
> steps
> >>> > for
> >>> > > retiring the project.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > *Call for action: If you are 

Re: Next Steps

[Andrei Sekretenko]

IIUC, Attic is not intended for projects which still have active users
and thus might be in need of fixing bugs.

Key items about moving project to Attic:
> It is not intended to:
> - Rebuild community
> - Make bugfixes
> - Make releases

>Projects whose PMC are unable to muster 3 votes for a release, who have no 
>active committers or are unable to fulfill their reporting duties to the board 
>are all good candidates for the Attic.

As a D2iQ employee, I can say that if we find a bug critical for our
customers, we will be interested in fixing that. Should the project be
moved into Attic, the fix will be present only in forks (which might
mean our internal forks).

I could imagine that other entities and people using Mesos are in a
similar position with regards to bugfixes.
If this is true, then moving the project to Attic in the near future
is not a proper solution to the issue of insufficient bandwidth of the
active PMC members/chair.

---
A long-term future of the project is a different story, which, in my
personal view, will "end" either in moving the project into Attic or
in shifting the project direction from what it used to be in the
recent few years to something substantially different. IMO, this
requires a  _separate_ discussion.

Damien's questions sound like a good starting point for that
discussion, I'll try to answer them from my committer/PMC member
perspective when I have enough time.

On Thu, 18 Feb 2021 at 12:49, Charles-François Natali
 wrote:
>
> Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
> It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on since 
> it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
> I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
> I hope it can be avoided.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski,  wrote:
>>
>> Moving to attic is making project read only
>> https://attic.apache.org/
>> https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
>>
>> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali 
>>  napisał:
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
>>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier,  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hi Vinod,
>>> >
>>> > > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
>>> > project.
>>> > >
>>> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
>>> > contributors
>>> > > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
>>> > there's
>>> > > no active development of any features or a public release planned. On 
>>> > > the
>>> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still actively
>>> > using
>>> > > Mesos.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
>>> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot in
>>> > the last 12+ months.
>>> >
>>> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community to
>>> > keep
>>> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active 
>>> > > committers
>>> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally, these 
>>> > > would
>>> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
>>> > > contributions.
>>> >
>>> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in the
>>> > last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
>>> > community at this point.
>>> >
>>> > Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number of
>>> > other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
>>> > maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
>>> > available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos these
>>> > days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to change
>>> > should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would be
>>> > to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the project
>>> > has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from using or
>>> > further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to users.
>>> >
>>> > > If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out steps
>>> > for
>>> > > retiring the project.
>>> > >
>>> > > *Call for action: If you are interested in becoming a committer/PMC
>>> > member
>>> > > (including PMC chair) and actively maintain the project, please reply to
>>> > > this email.*
>>> >
>>> > Like I wrote above, I would be in favor of a vote to move Apache Mesos
>>> > to the attic.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> >
>>> > Benjamin
>>> >

Re: Next Steps

[Charles-François Natali]

Thanks Tomek, that's what I suspected.
It would therefore make it much more difficult for anyone to carry on since
it would effectively have to be a fork, etc.
I think it'd be a bit of a shame, but I understand Benjamin's point.
I hope it can be avoided.


Cheers,



On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 11:02 Tomek Janiszewski,  wrote:

> Moving to attic is making project read only
> https://attic.apache.org/
> https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html
>
> czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
> cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:
>
>> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
>> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier,  wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Vinod,
>> >
>> > > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
>> > project.
>> > >
>> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
>> > contributors
>> > > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
>> > there's
>> > > no active development of any features or a public release planned. On
>> the
>> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still actively
>> > using
>> > > Mesos.
>> >
>> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
>> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot in
>> > the last 12+ months.
>> >
>> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community to
>> > keep
>> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active
>> committers
>> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally, these
>> would
>> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
>> > > contributions.
>> >
>> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in the
>> > last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
>> > community at this point.
>> >
>> > Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number of
>> > other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
>> > maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
>> > available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos these
>> > days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to change
>> > should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would be
>> > to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the project
>> > has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from using or
>> > further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to users.
>> >
>> > > If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out
>> steps
>> > for
>> > > retiring the project.
>> > >
>> > > *Call for action: If you are interested in becoming a committer/PMC
>> > member
>> > > (including PMC chair) and actively maintain the project, please reply
>> to
>> > > this email.*
>> >
>> > Like I wrote above, I would be in favor of a vote to move Apache Mesos
>> > to the attic.
>> >
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Benjamin
>> >
>>
>

Re: Next Steps

[Tomek Janiszewski]

Moving to attic is making project read only
https://attic.apache.org/
https://attic.apache.org/projects/aurora.html

czw., 18 lut 2021, 11:56 użytkownik Charles-François Natali <
cf.nat...@gmail.com> napisał:

> I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
> develop, make commits to the repository etc?
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier,  wrote:
>
> > Hi Vinod,
> >
> > > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
> > project.
> > >
> > > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
> > contributors
> > > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
> > there's
> > > no active development of any features or a public release planned. On
> the
> > > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still actively
> > using
> > > Mesos.
> >
> > Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
> > lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot in
> > the last 12+ months.
> >
> > > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community to
> > keep
> > > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active
> committers
> > > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally, these
> would
> > > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
> > > contributions.
> >
> > While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in the
> > last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
> > community at this point.
> >
> > Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number of
> > other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
> > maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
> > available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos these
> > days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to change
> > should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would be
> > to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the project
> > has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from using or
> > further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to users.
> >
> > > If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out steps
> > for
> > > retiring the project.
> > >
> > > *Call for action: If you are interested in becoming a committer/PMC
> > member
> > > (including PMC chair) and actively maintain the project, please reply
> to
> > > this email.*
> >
> > Like I wrote above, I would be in favor of a vote to move Apache Mesos
> > to the attic.
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Benjamin
> >
>

Re: Next Steps

[Charles-François Natali]

I'm not familiar with the attic but would it still allow to actually
develop, make commits to the repository etc?


On Thu, 18 Feb 2021, 08:27 Benjamin Bannier,  wrote:

> Hi Vinod,
>
> > I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos
> project.
> >
> > As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
> contributors
> > to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today,
> there's
> > no active development of any features or a public release planned. On the
> > flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still actively
> using
> > Mesos.
>
> Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
> lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot in
> the last 12+ months.
>
> > Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community to
> keep
> > this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active committers
> > and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally, these would
> > be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
> > contributions.
>
> While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in the
> last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
> community at this point.
>
> Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number of
> other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
> maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
> available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos these
> days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to change
> should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would be
> to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the project
> has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from using or
> further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to users.
>
> > If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out steps
> for
> > retiring the project.
> >
> > *Call for action: If you are interested in becoming a committer/PMC
> member
> > (including PMC chair) and actively maintain the project, please reply to
> > this email.*
>
> Like I wrote above, I would be in favor of a vote to move Apache Mesos
> to the attic.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Benjamin
>

Re: Next Steps

[Benjamin Bannier]

Hi Vinod,

> I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos project.
>
> As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and
contributors
> to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today, there's
> no active development of any features or a public release planned. On the
> flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still actively
using
> Mesos.

Thanks for starting this discussion Vinod. Looking at Slack, mailing
lists, JIRA and reviewboard/github the project has wound down a lot in
the last 12+ months.

> Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community to keep
> this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active committers
> and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally, these would
> be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
> contributions.

While I have seen a few non-committer folks contribute patches in the
last months, I feel it might be too late to bootstrap an active
community at this point.

Apache Mesos is still mentioned prominently in the docs of a number of
other projects which gives off the impression of an active and
maintained project. In reality almost nobody is working on issues or
available to help users, and basing a new project on Apache Mesos these
days is probably not a good idea. I honestly do not see that to change
should new people step up and IMO the most honest way forward would be
to move the project to the attic to clearly communicate that the project
has moved into another phase; this wouldn't preclude folks from using or
further developing Apache Mesos, but would give a clear signal to users.

> If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out steps
for
> retiring the project.
>
> *Call for action: If you are interested in becoming a committer/PMC member
> (including PMC chair) and actively maintain the project, please reply to
> this email.*

Like I wrote above, I would be in favor of a vote to move Apache Mesos
to the attic.


Cheers,

Benjamin

Re: Next Steps

[Charles-François Natali]

Hi,

We're using Mesos at work, and are very happy with it.
I'd be interested in becoming a committer. I could probably get some other
colleagues interested as well but from a diversification point of view it'd
probably be better if more individuals/organisations got involved.

Happy to discuss further,

Charles

Re: Next Steps

[Damien GERARD]

On 2021-02-18 09:08 AM, Samuel Marks wrote:

Mesos is great… conceptually. In practice it requires a lot of work to
setup and keep running.

What my team tried to contribute was a replacement for some of the big
moving parts—namely Apache ZooKeeper—with a choice between etcd, 
Consul,

and ZooKeeeper.

This was the first of many planned contributions, with the goal to turn
Mesos into a tiny component that you could plugin to any scale 
architecture

(1 developer laptop, 1 server, 3 servers, 5 servers, 10,000 servers).

Currently there is a threshold for when your architecture is 
complicated
enough + loaded enough to benefit from Mesos. If instead all a 
developer /
sysadmin / DevOps / cloud engineer needed to consider is how many 
moving

parts they have in their own applications (say: Postgres, MySQL,
Kubernetes, Kafka), and they thought of Mesos as a simple coordinator
between these and their scarce resources, then IMHO Mesos would have a
renewed community and interest, and not be falling into the background.

The other side of things is that most everyone is now comfortable using
cloud hosted services, like DBaaS, container-as-a-Service,
queue-as-a-Service, datalake-as-a-Service  The landscape has 
become so
skewed that, from my experience, very few new engineers + new 
engineering

companies are able to offer complete packages in public [and private]
clouds.

If Mesos makes some key architectural changes, to the point where 
anyone

can use it without so much as a second thought, to the benefit of their
compute resources, then I'd expect a huge growth here.

Samuel Marks
Charity  | consultancy 


| open-source  | LinkedIn


PS: My company may even sponsor further development.

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 10:54 AM Vinod Kone  
wrote:



Hi folks,

I would like to start a discussion around the future of the Mesos 
project.


As you are probably aware, the number of active committers and 
contributors
to the project have declined significantly over time. As of today, 
there's
no active development of any features or a public release planned. On 
the
flip side, I do know there are a few companies who are still actively 
using

Mesos.

Given that, we need to assess if there's interest in the community to 
keep
this project moving forward. Specifically, we need some active 
committers
and PMC members who are going to manage the project. Ideally, these 
would

be people who are using Mesos in some capacity and can make code
contributions.

If there is no active interest, we will likely need to figure out 
steps for

retiring the project.

*Call for action: If you are interested in becoming a committer/PMC 
member
(including PMC chair) and actively maintain the project, please reply 
to

this email.*

I personally don't foresee myself being very active in the Mesos 
project
going forward, so I'm planning to step down from my chair role as soon 
as

we find a replacement.


I think I personally agree with all the previous statements here. I am 
willing

to help eventually in maintaining the project.
But first things first, perhaps we should ask to the current 
maintainers:


 - what do they think the project should be going?
 - what is currently good in mesos?
 - what is currently bad/wrong in mesos?
 - which target of people / use case we should focus on?

We all have ideas I guess, which could to different situations.
From what I see from the slack, there were periodic online meetings to 
give
a roadmap to the projects. It is probably something that should be 
restored

and the future of the project could be discussed.


--
Damien GERARD