Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:07 PM, John Marino dragonfly...@marino.st wrote: On 7/20/2012 20:53, Carsten Mattner wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Stéphane Russell Complaining is important, but contributing platform support patches (if you have the skills) would possibly be a better choice, wouldn't it? Besides that statement also applying to yourself, the answer is no. The BSD community simply will not accept the substandard replacements of BSD functionality that Linux is adding to gnome. I don't use any of the DEs. So, I don't really have an itch, sorry. In other words, the functionality is already on BSD, Linux people are reinventing the wheel, and coming up with a worse product. The BSD folks I'm new to BSDs again after a hiatus of approximately 12 years. Therefore excuse my knowledge gap. What functionality are you referring to? Is it something that also already exists in the Linux world but is reinvented? will just stick with what they have as it's better. That's one of the issues and no amount of patch skills is going to fix that. It's a philosophical difference. Lennart Poettering: BSD isn't relevant anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant-Anymore Slashdot sensationalism, but basically gnome doesn't care if it's BSD-friendly or not and it's diverging to the point of no compatibility. While that's true, from what I read they do welcome patches to support the new stack on other platforms. It's true though that their focus has changed with more work going into adding layers of plumbing.
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
Pierre Abbat a écrit : On Thursday 19 July 2012 21:40:44 Stéphane Russell wrote: I finally got a PC to make myself a GUI workstation with DragonFly. I first tried Gnome, without success. There seem to be issues with GConf and HAL, and the console is not available to GDM. So I tried XDM along with a XFCE GUI and it worked with some average issues. Looks good! I've been running KDE for over a year; the main problem I've had is that sometimes the binary packages weren't available. Are you building a house? I'm going to be building a cabin fairly shortly, and a house next year. I'm doing the drawings in QCad on the DFly box (also LibreCad on the Ubuntu laptop, but it doesn't have a scrollwheel). Pierre We made a lot of renovations in the past years, still in it! I used QCad on DragonFly to modify the plans that I bought for a patio deck. I had to bring down the length from 12 to 8 feets and calculate precisely the position of the pillars, it was a lot of fun. Once I got used to QCad, the job was done very fast. I didn't try LibreCad since QCad fits my needs for now. Your build projects looks good to me! Good luck for your work. :-) Stephane
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
Wojciech Puchar a écrit : despite of an error message at startup is working fine, as long as I'm not trying to configure it, since GConf is not working. just use windows manager like cwm or fvwm2+your own configuration. I for example use my 9 year old .fvwm2rc which results in cwm-alike environment. it's really easier to just run program you need (like openoffice writer, mail client, gimp etc.) instead of running bells and whistles like Gnome. I assume you need workstation (==computer to do actual work). Gnome nor XFCE nor KDE doesn't help in doing actual work. I always try to use Gnome whenever possible, and fall back to XFCE when it's not. When I can't use any, I fall back to mwm which is always installed because of nedit, or WindowMaker if I'm more patient. But to me, mwm, WindowMaker and fvwm2 is rock age as well ;-) Gnome is a standard to many in Unix and Unix like systems. Even Firefox and OpenOffice are build around it. Many others are build around KDE. I think that KDE is the unofficial standard for DragonFly. I explored OpenIndiana latelly and liked the way they split their development in several more or less independent «consolidations»: Package management and publishing (like pkgsrc) The kernel and core userland The bundle software The X Window System Gnome and desktop software Installers and live media tools Internationalization software Server management GUI I think that when DragonFly will reach a mature state, it will have to maintain an integrated desktop environment (KDE or Gnome, at least XFCE which is some minimalist Gnome) apart from pkgsrc, as part of the OS, like OpenIndiana seems to be doing it. OpenIndiana's Gnome is a reduced set of Gnome. I hardly conceive a modern OS without some basic integrated desktop available, compatible with freedesktop.org specifications. Check it out how is it to work normal way. be working fine. But I couldn't raise the volume because PulseAudio seems to need HAL to do it, which is severely bugged. tools like youtube_dl would make your life better - download and then play. And keep interesting movies on your disk so they will not disappear. Thanks for this, I'll sure give it a try. It's been a long time since I could run a GUI desktop with DragonFly. On the other hand, I still can't get my PF firewall to work with my DragonFly server. I didn't have enough time to try to get some traces and report them cannot help without any precise information. Yes, I'll have to capture some traces to get more information. In short, the server become unstable when I block everything and then open some ports. It also seems unstable when used with X Window. I suspect some overflow or maybe problem with ip stacks, but I will have to dig someday to know better. Thanks for all the information. SR
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
On 7/20/2012 17:12, Stéphane Russell wrote: Wojciech Puchar a écrit : despite of an error message at startup is working fine, as long as I'm not trying to configure it, since GConf is not working. just use windows manager like cwm or fvwm2+your own configuration. I for example use my 9 year old .fvwm2rc which results in cwm-alike environment. it's really easier to just run program you need (like openoffice writer, mail client, gimp etc.) instead of running bells and whistles like Gnome. I assume you need workstation (==computer to do actual work). Gnome nor XFCE nor KDE doesn't help in doing actual work. I always try to use Gnome whenever possible, and fall back to XFCE when it's not. It might be time to rethink that approach. The gnome library version numbers are all mismatched. Some are 2.24, others 2.26, others 2.32. Effectively they can't all be brought to the current level of glib2 due to the increasing amount of linux-only functionality there. The days of Gnome on non-Linux might be numbered, at least modern Gnome... On the flipside, KDE has been compiling completely and all the modules have matching versions numbers. Currently KDE 3.5 just lost regressed a module or two, but before that we had fully building KDE 3.5 and 4.8.x. XFCE has been building as well, but it's still on 4.6 John
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
John Marino a écrit : On 7/20/2012 17:12, Stéphane Russell wrote: Wojciech Puchar a écrit : despite of an error message at startup is working fine, as long as I'm not trying to configure it, since GConf is not working. just use windows manager like cwm or fvwm2+your own configuration. I for example use my 9 year old .fvwm2rc which results in cwm-alike environment. it's really easier to just run program you need (like openoffice writer, mail client, gimp etc.) instead of running bells and whistles like Gnome. I assume you need workstation (==computer to do actual work). Gnome nor XFCE nor KDE doesn't help in doing actual work. I always try to use Gnome whenever possible, and fall back to XFCE when it's not. It might be time to rethink that approach. The gnome library version numbers are all mismatched. Some are 2.24, others 2.26, others 2.32. Effectively they can't all be brought to the current level of glib2 due to the increasing amount of linux-only functionality there. The days of Gnome on non-Linux might be numbered, at least modern Gnome... On the flipside, KDE has been compiling completely and all the modules have matching versions numbers. Currently KDE 3.5 just lost regressed a module or two, but before that we had fully building KDE 3.5 and 4.8.x. XFCE has been building as well, but it's still on 4.6 John I think your right about this. Even the Illumos community complains about this.
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Stéphane Russell sruss...@prodigeinfo.qc.ca wrote: John Marino a écrit : On 7/20/2012 17:12, Stéphane Russell wrote: Wojciech Puchar a écrit : despite of an error message at startup is working fine, as long as I'm not trying to configure it, since GConf is not working. just use windows manager like cwm or fvwm2+your own configuration. I for example use my 9 year old .fvwm2rc which results in cwm-alike environment. it's really easier to just run program you need (like openoffice writer, mail client, gimp etc.) instead of running bells and whistles like Gnome. I assume you need workstation (==computer to do actual work). Gnome nor XFCE nor KDE doesn't help in doing actual work. I always try to use Gnome whenever possible, and fall back to XFCE when it's not. It might be time to rethink that approach. The gnome library version numbers are all mismatched. Some are 2.24, others 2.26, others 2.32. Effectively they can't all be brought to the current level of glib2 due to the increasing amount of linux-only functionality there. The days of Gnome on non-Linux might be numbered, at least modern Gnome... On the flipside, KDE has been compiling completely and all the modules have matching versions numbers. Currently KDE 3.5 just lost regressed a module or two, but before that we had fully building KDE 3.5 and 4.8.x. XFCE has been building as well, but it's still on 4.6 John I think your right about this. Even the Illumos community complains about this. Complaining is important, but contributing platform support patches (if you have the skills) would possibly be a better choice, wouldn't it?
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
On 7/20/2012 20:53, Carsten Mattner wrote: On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Stéphane Russell Complaining is important, but contributing platform support patches (if you have the skills) would possibly be a better choice, wouldn't it? Besides that statement also applying to yourself, the answer is no. The BSD community simply will not accept the substandard replacements of BSD functionality that Linux is adding to gnome. In other words, the functionality is already on BSD, Linux people are reinventing the wheel, and coming up with a worse product. The BSD folks will just stick with what they have as it's better. That's one of the issues and no amount of patch skills is going to fix that. It's a philosophical difference. Lennart Poettering: BSD isn't relevant anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant-Anymore Slashdot sensationalism, but basically gnome doesn't care if it's BSD-friendly or not and it's diverging to the point of no compatibility.
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
Carsten Mattner a écrit : On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 8:33 PM, Stéphane Russell sruss...@prodigeinfo.qc.ca wrote: John Marino a écrit : On 7/20/2012 17:12, Stéphane Russell wrote: Wojciech Puchar a écrit : despite of an error message at startup is working fine, as long as I'm not trying to configure it, since GConf is not working. just use windows manager like cwm or fvwm2+your own configuration. I for example use my 9 year old .fvwm2rc which results in cwm-alike environment. it's really easier to just run program you need (like openoffice writer, mail client, gimp etc.) instead of running bells and whistles like Gnome. I assume you need workstation (==computer to do actual work). Gnome nor XFCE nor KDE doesn't help in doing actual work. I always try to use Gnome whenever possible, and fall back to XFCE when it's not. It might be time to rethink that approach. The gnome library version numbers are all mismatched. Some are 2.24, others 2.26, others 2.32. Effectively they can't all be brought to the current level of glib2 due to the increasing amount of linux-only functionality there. The days of Gnome on non-Linux might be numbered, at least modern Gnome... On the flipside, KDE has been compiling completely and all the modules have matching versions numbers. Currently KDE 3.5 just lost regressed a module or two, but before that we had fully building KDE 3.5 and 4.8.x. XFCE has been building as well, but it's still on 4.6 John I think your right about this. Even the Illumos community complains about this. Complaining is important, but contributing platform support patches (if you have the skills) would possibly be a better choice, wouldn't it? I never complain, I only report bugs when I think it will be useful to someone. The Illumos community was the one who complained :-) Once I had all my time to myself, but with a full time job, 17 hours of train a week, a family and a house to maintain, please forgive the little left... I did try to publish some useful packages but I'll have to seek for another computer to install a current version of DragonFly to succeed, otherwise my work gets completely obsolete before I publish it. I also tried to create a BSD group in french for my area, but people here are using Linux. I cancelled it for lack of interest. Contribution for OpenSource should also be seeked in corporations like many I know, who are using tons of «free» OpenSource (and unlike me making money of it), never returning anything back to the community - even when I advise them that «free» is a relative word. That's the price of «freedom», sometime I don't blame Larry Ellison for closing Solaris even if it was unethical! Where were the tons of free Sun product users while Sun was on bankruptcy? Now, theses belongs to Oracle, pay! DragonFly will have to focus on open requests to community and a donation button on it's portal to get more help. I know theses are tasks in progress. Cheers SR
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
Hi, Maybe we're not using the same pkgsrc version? I didn't upgraded from pkgsrc-2011Q4 since the beginning of 2012. I used this version to build my workstation, along with DragonFly v3.0.1-RELEASE. Theses versions where tested on my server, so I used them instead of trying the latest versions. SR Edward M a écrit : Stéphane Russell wrote: Seamonkey browser and mail (sorry, I'm old fashion: I'm dedicated to Netscape since always You got seamonkey to build from pkgsrc? mine stopped on a error when I was trying to build.
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
On Thursday 19 July 2012 21:40:44 Stéphane Russell wrote: I finally got a PC to make myself a GUI workstation with DragonFly. I first tried Gnome, without success. There seem to be issues with GConf and HAL, and the console is not available to GDM. So I tried XDM along with a XFCE GUI and it worked with some average issues. Looks good! I've been running KDE for over a year; the main problem I've had is that sometimes the binary packages weren't available. Are you building a house? I'm going to be building a cabin fairly shortly, and a house next year. I'm doing the drawings in QCad on the DFly box (also LibreCad on the Ubuntu laptop, but it doesn't have a scrollwheel). Pierre -- sei do'anai mi'a djuno puze'e noroi nalselganse srera
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
Justin Sherrill wrote: I just happened to read about a fix in pkgsrc-current for seamonkey. I don't know if this applies to the version you were trying to build. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/pkgsrc-users/2012/07/19/msg016746.html thanks for the info. different version, version i am trying to build is 2.10 from pkgsrc-2012Q2. i think now is the time i should subscribe to pkgsrc-users mailing list.
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
On 20/07/12 13:40, Edward M wrote: Justin Sherrill wrote: I just happened to read about a fix in pkgsrc-current for seamonkey. I don't know if this applies to the version you were trying to build. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/pkgsrc-users/2012/07/19/msg016746.html thanks for the info. different version, version i am trying to build is 2.10 from pkgsrc-2012Q2. i think now is the time i should subscribe to pkgsrc-users mailing list. If you are having trouble accessing GDM capability, I know that Debian have a package that attributes GDM capability to KDM. Might be worth looking at to see how it's put together. Regards, David. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
Stéphane Russell wrote: Hi, Maybe we're not using the same pkgsrc version? I didn't upgraded from pkgsrc-2011Q4 since the beginning of 2012. I used this version to build my workstation, along with DragonFly v3.0.1-RELEASE. Theses versions where tested on my server, so I used them instead of trying the latest versions. SR Edward M a écrit : Stéphane Russell wrote: Seamonkey browser and mail (sorry, I'm old fashion: I'm dedicated to Netscape since always You got seamonkey to build from pkgsrc? mine stopped on a error when I was trying to build. did not realized Stephane cc his reply to dfly mailing list so i will do same with my reply. :-) hello, thanks for the reply. i think that is my problem, i am using pkgsrc-2012Q2, which has seamonkey 2.10. I am trying to reproduce the error again so i can post it in dflybsd mailing list and see anybody can solve it
Re: DragonFly GUI desktop at work - not bad at all
David.Crosswell wrote: If you are having trouble accessing GDM capability, I know that Debian have a package that attributes GDM capability to KDM. Might be worth looking at to see how it's put together. Regards, David. thanks for reply. I not using gdm to login if that is what you mean?
