Re: Wiki Spam again
On Sun, Jan 27, 2008 at 07:10:58PM +0100, Simon 'corecode' Schubert wrote: Sd?vtaker wrote: Maybe we should consider a wiki migration, if the one we using doesnt have a lot of basic features that almost every other has. Which basic features are missing? Im not a big experienced wiki user, but heard a lot of good comments about mediawiki. We've been there, the spam was as bad, IIRC. Plus it needs php and mysql I think, so rather a step backwards. cheers simon Also, have you guys looked at *Twiki* http://twiki.org/ ? We are considering using it for our own sites as the main CMS. It is a structured wiki that can be used as a general Content Management System as well. It is written in Perl and has the ability to store it's data in flat text files. The license is the GPL. Apparently a lot of big companies are using it, such as Yahoo!, Motorola, and Texas Instruments. Also, since I there was discussion about a captcha, I just checked and Twiki does have a Captcha Plugin. http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/Plugins/CaptchaPlugin I just thought you guys might like to know, in case you were not already familiar with it.
Re: Wiki Spam again
On Tue, January 29, 2008 12:09 am, Vincent Stemen wrote: Also, have you guys looked at *Twiki* http://twiki.org/ ? We are considering using it for our own sites as the main CMS. It is a structured wiki that can be used as a general Content Management System as well. It is written in Perl and has the ability to store it's data in flat text files. The license is the GPL. The criterion shouldn't be language, but rather what features it offers. I'm not thrilled with the TextCha option in MoinMoin, but I'm hesitant to rip out one wiki for another for just one feature. Now that I've had to actually wrangle MoinMoin a bit, it's not too bad. At least, not bad enough that I think we have to dump it ASAP. I was only seeing 1-2 spams per day, which I was fixing as soon as I saw them, so I'm not that worried about this right now. I think this discussion just happened because there are more people looking at the wiki now (yay!) and it hapened to be a page people saw. Anyway: what features do we need to shop for? - Easier user management: MoinMoin makes you switch to a user ID to disable it, which is a pain for the multiple users that build up from spam. - Easier theme management: I'd like to have the wiki better integrated visually into the dragonflybsd.org site, and no looking so 'wiki-ish'. I've seen a number of Trac installs that are well-integrated that way. - Portable: there should be a conversion method from MoinMoin to any new target we select. I've probably managed to kill the idea with verbiage at this point.
Re: Wiki Spam again
Hi, * Dario 'Capn Sonic' Banno wrote: Hey there, right some minutes ago, Dragonfly Handbook main page was completely replaced with some spam, so I reverted it to the previous version. See http://wiki.dragonflybsd.org/index.cgi/DragonFlyBSD_Handbook?action=diff You can see daily spams from RecentChanges page too. Well, a wiki is a great thing, but I think restricting page editing to registered users only is really needed. What do you think about it? +1 I already talked with Justin about that. Making the wiki read-only for unregistered users is IMO a must-have today. The amount of spam hitting the wiki day by day is too high. Deleting spam takes more time that updating the real content :) If somebody is willing to contribute to the handbook, he can create an account and do some work. Yes, we could loose some minor changes from unregistered users but getting rid of the spam problem is worth loosing these minor changes. Regards Matthias
Re: Wiki Spam again
Justin C. Sherrill wrote: http://moinmo.in/TextCha Where a text question is asked that only a human could easily understand. It doesn't yet appear to be a feature we can apply to only anonymous users, if at all. Seems as if they implemented it in their recently released 1.6 version. I think we should try this. The question might be as easy as where did dragonfly from and such. cheers simon -- Serve - BSD +++ RENT this banner advert +++ASCII Ribbon /\ Work - Mac +++ space for low €€€ NOW!1 +++ Campaign \ / Party Enjoy Relax | http://dragonflybsd.org Against HTML \ Dude 2c 2 the max ! http://golden-apple.biz Mail + News / \
Re: Wiki Spam again
On Sun, January 27, 2008 4:05 am, Matthias Schmidt wrote: I already talked with Justin about that. Making the wiki read-only for unregistered users is IMO a must-have today. The amount of spam hitting the wiki day by day is too high. Deleting spam takes more time that updating the real content :) I wouldn't go that far - I've only been seeing 1-2 spams per day. (They will show up twice - once when spammed, and once when fixed) The wiki is now set to only allow registered users to edit. Of course, there already was a spam page added last night by a registered user. It would appear that a captcha on registration is the logical next step.
Re: Wiki Spam again
* Matthias Schmidt wrote: He Justin, * Justin C. Sherrill wrote: The wiki is now set to only allow registered users to edit. Of course, there already was a spam page added last night by a registered user. It would appear that a captcha on registration is the logical next step. Agreed. Better now than later :) To second that, we have already some registered users adding spam to the wiki (see Recent Changes). We need to delete these accounts as well. BTW: I cannot delete pages any longer. The entry is gray ... is that intended? Matthias
Re: Wiki Spam again
Matthias Schmidt escribió: * Matthias Schmidt wrote: He Justin, * Justin C. Sherrill wrote: The wiki is now set to only allow registered users to edit. Of course, there already was a spam page added last night by a registered user. It would appear that a captcha on registration is the logical next step. Agreed. Better now than later :) To second that, we have already some registered users adding spam to the wiki (see Recent Changes). We need to delete these accounts as well. BTW: I cannot delete pages any longer. The entry is gray ... is that intended? Matthias I think the registration is a step backwards, captcha for unregistered users will do it a lot easier for users and mantainers. I had read that occacional users changes are minimal, but those changes are those that people registered never see, becouse they already went over the same thing so many times that already skip the lecture, let say the tutorial about how to find a file in the FS, who reads it? maybe a newbie found it doesnt really work, invest some time in find why googling, and want to add his own experience, we loosing that, the experienced user dont see those little details that are key for a well documented OS, the users-comments area can add those experiences for us without give the unregistered users writting access, but like i said before, we got no other way of feedback than the edition. About Textcha, i guess i will never be able to add things to handbook after implemented (my english sucks as you probably already noticed) lot of people doesnt speak english as main language and will get pissed off after 2-3 failed textcha tries. Maybe we should consider a wiki migration, if the one we using doesnt have a lot of basic features that almost every other has. Im not a big experienced wiki user, but heard a lot of good comments about mediawiki. Sdav
Re: Wiki Spam again
Sdävtaker wrote: Maybe we should consider a wiki migration, if the one we using doesnt have a lot of basic features that almost every other has. Which basic features are missing? Im not a big experienced wiki user, but heard a lot of good comments about mediawiki. We've been there, the spam was as bad, IIRC. Plus it needs php and mysql I think, so rather a step backwards. cheers simon -- Serve - BSD +++ RENT this banner advert +++ASCII Ribbon /\ Work - Mac +++ space for low €€€ NOW!1 +++ Campaign \ / Party Enjoy Relax | http://dragonflybsd.org Against HTML \ Dude 2c 2 the max ! http://golden-apple.biz Mail + News / \
Re: Wiki Spam again
On Sun, January 27, 2008 11:23 am, Matthias Schmidt wrote: To second that, we have already some registered users adding spam to the wiki (see Recent Changes). We need to delete these accounts as well. There's about 210 users listed in there, many of those should go. I'll work on that, though it looks like it's not something I can do in bulk. The accounts have to be disabled, not deleted, for the usual reasons of data integrity. BTW: I cannot delete pages any longer. The entry is gray ... is that intended? Oops, no. When I explicitly set it to allow known users write access, that access which was in the default set was overwritten. It should be fixed now.
Re: Wiki Spam again
On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 19:10:58 +0100 Simon 'corecode' Schubert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We've been there, the spam was as bad, IIRC. Plus it needs php and mysql I think, so rather a step backwards. I know you'd want Instiki. :-P But please, no mediawiki! It's slow and sucks bigtime. -- Gergo Szakal MD [EMAIL PROTECTED] University Of Szeged, HU Faculty Of General Medicine /* Please do not CC me with replies, thank you. */
Wiki Spam again
Hey there, right some minutes ago, Dragonfly Handbook main page was completely replaced with some spam, so I reverted it to the previous version. See http://wiki.dragonflybsd.org/index.cgi/DragonFlyBSD_Handbook?action=diff You can see daily spams from RecentChanges page too. Well, a wiki is a great thing, but I think restricting page editing to registered users only is really needed. What do you think about it? Cheers! -- Dario Cap'n Sonic Banno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wiki Spam again
I second a motion! Tero Mäntyvaara Dario 'Capn Sonic' Banno wrote: Hey there, right some minutes ago, Dragonfly Handbook main page was completely replaced with some spam, so I reverted it to the previous version. See http://wiki.dragonflybsd.org/index.cgi/DragonFlyBSD_Handbook?action=diff You can see daily spams from RecentChanges page too. Well, a wiki is a great thing, but I think restricting page editing to registered users only is really needed. What do you think about it? Cheers! -- Dario Cap'n Sonic Banno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Wiki Spam again
Dario 'Capn Sonic' Banno wrote: Well, a wiki is a great thing, but I think restricting page editing to registered users only is really needed. What do you think about it? I think we should add a captcha for unregistered users and require a captcha for registering. cheers simon -- Serve - BSD +++ RENT this banner advert +++ASCII Ribbon /\ Work - Mac +++ space for low €€€ NOW!1 +++ Campaign \ / Party Enjoy Relax | http://dragonflybsd.org Against HTML \ Dude 2c 2 the max ! http://golden-apple.biz Mail + News / \
Re: Wiki Spam again
Require a second password for registering. Those interested can ask on one of our lists or one of the wiki admins directly. Jeremy C. Reed
Re: Wiki Spam again
I think the captcha for unregistered users is a good idea. I started editing the wiki as unregistered. Now, Im registered, but it is good to be able edit a couple of things without the need of been registered user, it encourages the occasional user to add/change few details of what hi is reading. We could avoid the unregistered users editors if there were any other way to capture the occacional user input having a comments area in each page like PHP manual in www.php.net but we dont have it. Im up for the captcha in unregistered and the captcha in the registration form. We need to find a way to add some backend scripting to import/export the handbook, add navigation bars, etc.. Wiki is not ever the best way to read something, it helps a lot for one little punctual doubt but no way replaces a book-like format. Some times you want to print maybe a chapter like network config becouse you will not have access to the wiki for a while, or want to avoid the navigation reading a pdf-like format in a PC with no internet connection, there is a lot of people who doesnt have 2 PC to install DFBSD in one while reading the docs in the other one, or someone who use a not broadband connection, so want to download and read offline, etc Sdav. Jeremy C. Reed escribió: Require a second password for registering. Those interested can ask on one of our lists or one of the wiki admins directly. Jeremy C. Reed
Re: Wiki Spam again
On Sat, January 26, 2008 6:07 pm, Dario 'Capn Sonic' Banno wrote: Hey there, right some minutes ago, Dragonfly Handbook main page was completely replaced with some spam, so I reverted it to the previous version. See http://wiki.dragonflybsd.org/index.cgi/DragonFlyBSD_Handbook?action=diff You can see daily spams from RecentChanges page too. Well, a wiki is a great thing, but I think restricting page editing to registered users only is really needed. What do you think about it? Going by this: http://moinmo.in/HelpOnAccessControlLists - I think I've changed the site correctly to allow only known users to edit or revert pages. This isn't great, because it locks out anonymous edits from people who are legitimate contributors. It may reduce spam, but there are spambots that will register themselves. I have been watching the rss feed of wiki changes, and deleting/reverting spam changes as I come across them. It's usually on the level of a few each day, and nothing is lost. Tell me if this is not working for people, and I can go back to the old behavior. An aside - If you see a spammed page, click the little blue 'i' icon on the upper right, and you'll get a list of prior versions of the page - click 'Revert' to go back to a pre-spammed version. There is also a BadContent page with a ginormungous regex that will catch most spam and keep it from ever getting posted; this is why most of the spams that do make it through are nonsense. There is also an Admin right that can be given out that lets people delete pages. The captcha idea has been brought up before; the general notes in the past for MoinMoin, the software for our wiki, have been captchas are bad for various reasons. There's been some discussion of a textcha here: http://moinmo.in/TextCha Where a text question is asked that only a human could easily understand. It doesn't yet appear to be a feature we can apply to only anonymous users, if at all. I don't follow MoinMoin development very closely, so there could be an option that I don't know about or a plugin that could work better - suggestions are welcomed.
