Re: GUI IDE need.
On 3/14/20, 1:54 PM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" wrote: I would disagree with that because a while ago I went deep into the source code for the TLF framework in Flash and there was implementation of various HTML element which could be displayed directly in the Flash DisplayList. IIRC, there is no guarantee that TLF would display anything similar to how a browser would do it, but it would render the same across Flash in all browsers. There was no compliant CSS implementation, for example, and no support for HTML5. That's why I'm saying it is easier/safer to just let the browser render. There is also another project I saw which has a designer view written all in Flex... this could be taken and then injected inside Moonshine in a Loader with whom we could communicate back and forth if we want to export the structure to HTML or other framework. We could ask the author of it to check how could we implement it. The link below is for Radia8. Judah, the author has already chimed in one of these recent GUI threads. https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpasteboard.co%2FIZ6B7EL.pngdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cfebd2b0afef14db516f408d7c859dc55%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198160621955893sdata=kzI5wLZ9Pd2C1F3al0psZDbMjs%2FXNET1R9rvrQ3akZU%3Dreserved=0 Best regards P.S. If you would like to have a reverse engineered images of all the diagrams I did in the past for the TLF please le me know I draw so many pages just for the sake of understanding. 14.03.2020, 19:48, "Alex Harui" : > I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF app. But IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF code to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a particular ID in the DOM. > > What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a SWFLoader between them. I would strongly prefer we not tackle those exceptions in Royale. > > One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that (hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the top level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume that and shouldn't. That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the Royale Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at the root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do that. > > What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser instead of in the IDE. And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me. I think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that browser window. > > Of course, I could be wrong... > -Alex > > On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" wrote: > > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? > > Does this make any sense? > > 11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" : > > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? > > > > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" : > >> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've > >> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the > >> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin > >> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports > >> exporting markup to HTML and CSS. > >> > >> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for > >> prototyping. > >> > >> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be > >> much less work to add in support than write your
Re: GUI IDE need.
I would disagree with that because a while ago I went deep into the source code for the TLF framework in Flash and there was implementation of various HTML element which could be displayed directly in the Flash DisplayList. There is also another project I saw which has a designer view written all in Flex... this could be taken and then injected inside Moonshine in a Loader with whom we could communicate back and forth if we want to export the structure to HTML or other framework. We could ask the author of it to check how could we implement it. https://pasteboard.co/IZ6B7EL.png Best regards P.S. If you would like to have a reverse engineered images of all the diagrams I did in the past for the TLF please le me know I draw so many pages just for the sake of understanding. 14.03.2020, 19:48, "Alex Harui" : > I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF app. But > IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the > FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and > alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF > code to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a > particular ID in the DOM. > > What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that > the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a > SWFLoader between them. I would strongly prefer we not tackle those > exceptions in Royale. > > One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that > (hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the > top level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is > top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume > that and shouldn't. That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the > Royale Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside > any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at > the root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do > that. > > What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in > other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display > boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser > instead of in the IDE. And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing > the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer > in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me. I > think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a > window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that > browser window. > > Of course, I could be wrong... > -Alex > > On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" wrote: > > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built > as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if > we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? > > Does this make any sense? > > 11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" : > > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built > as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if > we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? > > > > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" : > >> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've > >> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the > >> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin > >> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports > >> exporting markup to HTML and CSS. > >> > >> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for > >> prototyping. > >> > >> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be > >> much less work to add in support than write your own design view. > >> > >> YouTube playlist > >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fplaylist%3Flist%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pXdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=oth%2FP5pVUEGwBJ9yKUy8HWBgbVjXeYBQzlnrtyo1700%3Dreserved=0 > >> > >> Documentation > >> > https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvelara-3.gitbook.io%2Fweb-export%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=BWPsL5I5cdOapzep8mu%2FwdNvatQaEvjA4gVV8WeTkIw%3Dreserved=0 > >> > >> More comments inline... > >> > >> On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote: > >>> While it may be that someone offers
Re: GUI IDE need.
I never looked too closely at the SWF portion of FB DV. It was a SWF app. But IIRC, the main work in DV was in the communications between the SWF and the FB Java code in Eclipse that displayed properties and managed alignment and alignment-guides and whatever else DV offered. IOW, it isn't that much SWF code to handle a request to set or return properties on an object with a particular ID in the DOM. What I do remember is that the SWF portion was an exception to the rule that the DOM would not have an Application as a child of an Application without a SWFLoader between them. I would strongly prefer we not tackle those exceptions in Royale. One thing about Royale that is a bit different from Flex and SWFs is that (hopefully) the Royale Applications do not presume they are essentially the top level node in the DOM. Maybe Basic Application could assume that it is top-level for simplicity, but other Application tag do not need to presume that and shouldn't. That's because you don't really know where in the DOM the Royale Application will end up. In Flex, you could wrap the SWF Object inside any amount of HTML and the SWF Object was a black box and the Flex app ran at the root of the SWF Object. In Royale, we probably can't and don't want to do that. What that means is that it should be easier to wrap a Royale Application in other DOM widgets and thus it should be far easier to create property display boxes, alignment guides, selection, and other UI a DV needs in the browser instead of in the IDE. And the advantage of that is that the browser is doing the rendering so it is truly WYSIWYG. Any attempt to emulate an HTML renderer in AIR or Java/Eclipse or other IDE platforms would be concerning to me. I think you would get better fidelity if the IDE would run a browser in a window of the IDE and talk to it, and potentially do most of the UI in that browser window. Of course, I could be wrong... -Alex On 3/14/20, 11:26 AM, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" wrote: This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? Does this make any sense? 11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" : > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? > > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" : >> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've >> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the >> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin >> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports >> exporting markup to HTML and CSS. >> >> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for >> prototyping. >> >> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be >> much less work to add in support than write your own design view. >> >> YouTube playlist >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fplaylist%3Flist%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pXdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=oth%2FP5pVUEGwBJ9yKUy8HWBgbVjXeYBQzlnrtyo1700%3Dreserved=0 >> >> Documentation >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvelara-3.gitbook.io%2Fweb-export%2Fdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757779259sdata=BWPsL5I5cdOapzep8mu%2FwdNvatQaEvjA4gVV8WeTkIw%3Dreserved=0 >> >> More comments inline... >> >> On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote: >>> While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that wasn't possible with Flash Player. >>> >>> IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the browser. >> >> Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it >> updates live in the browser (for HTML). >> >> https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkfQQkxi8eG4%26list%3DPLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX%26index%3D10%26t%3D0sdata=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Ce725dd9fb9554a1760a108d7c8452d3f%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C637198071757789220sdata=w1NpFDdP7OuzvfwDdpFpMfeIGNP%2BfikpoJulUM%2Fh1J0%3Dreserved=0 >> >> You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the
Re: GUI IDE need.
This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? Does this make any sense? 11.03.2020, 22:43, "Ramazan Ergüder Bekrek" : > This is just my idea and my intuition tells me that the FB DV was built as an > SWF app which was loaded inside of eclipse like a browser SWF what if we > decompile its source code and just inject it in Moonshine editor? > > 11.03.2020, 19:57, "QA" : >> Hi, I agree that a GUI IDE is needed or would be beneficial. I've >> planned Royale as an export target for Web Export but it's been on the >> backlog. I've mentioned this in another post but Web Export is a plugin >> for Adobe XD that exports artboards to the web. Currently it supports >> exporting markup to HTML and CSS. >> >> XD supports all the layout, positioning and design features used for >> prototyping. >> >> To support Royale more fully would require some work but it would be >> much less work to add in support than write your own design view. >> >> YouTube playlist >> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX >> >> Documentation >> https://velara-3.gitbook.io/web-export/ >> >> More comments inline... >> >> On 3/9/20 11:28 PM, Alex Harui wrote: >>> While it may be that someone offers a GUI IDE some day for Royale, there >>> is are some other approaches, one that has been prototyped, and one that >>> wasn't possible with Flash Player. >>> >>> IIRC, one prototype adds some things to your app that allow you to edit >>> the x/y/width/height in your MXML and immediately see the results in the >>> browser. >> >> Web Export has a live export feature so that as you make changes it >> updates live in the browser (for HTML). >> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfQQkxi8eG4=PLFBNT6gqr5u_NvUaLdHziGES_7Rw8-2pX=10=0s >> >> You can have it update the MXML in an existing file or have it write the >> MXML document each time it changes. >> >>> The other approach is to write a bead that can track your MXML from the >>> browser so you can use the browser tools to modify the UI and hit some >>> button that will then update the MXML. >>> >>> There are some limitations to these approaches which is why none are >>> available at this time. The main one is that use of view states greatly >>> complicates these approaches (as it does for a GUI IDE as well). So one >>> question for you, are you using view states (mx:State)? >> >> XD supports states in a way. What I've seen from users is they have >> different pages and manually switch between them. I think the way XD >> creates it's live prototypes is listing all property changes. That >> information can be stored in State markup. >> >> If you (or other Flex devs) want to join me on adding Royale support to >> Web Export I can add you to the github project and you'll be about one >> year further along towards a GUI. >> >> Jude
