[libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Virgil Arrington-2 wrote That said, it might be interesting to see how the poll might fare if there were an option of MS Office running under Wine. Does anybody actually do that? Four free Microsoft downloads to view file formats rtf, doc(x), xls(x), ppt(x) flawlessly under Wine: https://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5t=68280p=304336#p304336 -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/LinuxQuestions-org-s-Office-Suite-of-the-Year-LibreOffice-tp4139055p4139458.html Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 6 February 2015 at 12:25, Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? Yes, interesting, given that LO contains non-native components - those that require Java VM. LO Base with HSQL even requites it. So yes, for me there are technical parallels between MSO with the 'emulated' runtime and LO. History similarities are present too, both products come from large corporations and one tried to emulate the other to address the price issue above any other factors (from the history of StarOffice under Sun). Both suites were completely or partially acquired from smaller vendors (IIRC, entire OO but Base from StarDivision, PowerPoint, Visio, Outlook Mobile, FrontPage from other companies). So it's good to be aware of the roots. LO started clean at some point; let's look into the future and focus on positives. As for the original concern -- congratulations for the 1st place but in the current context... I don't care too much about the poll as it's not close to something scientifically correct. Obviously Linux users is a small population of LO users (my claim as a long time employe of an OpenOffice vendor), too small to extrapolate the results and then construct any hypothesis. Yes I know this is LinuxQuestions. For the record neither I even voted there nor any contributor of Calligra known to me told me she/he voted this year, we have never even spread the word within the community to vote there. I remember LQ from maybe 2006. It seems that LQ staff do not contact the teams about their plans for subsequent polls. We can construct other of similar scale on G+ for example. Too often people tend to read these overly generic polls as Cheapest Office Suite. -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 7 February 2015 at 13:22, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbfa...@libreoffice.org wrote: Le 06/02/2015 22:02, Urmas a écrit : Italo Vignoli: You need to understand that there are only two kinds of soft- and hardware: that which solves the client problem at adequate cost, and that which doesn't. Anything else is irrelevant. You're right. But the issue is how you calculate the costs. For me proprietary licenses are unacceptable high costs for office suites. In other words, proprietary licenses create problems and do not solve none of my problems. The FOSS isn't to lower your cost. Freeware and SaaS/Freemium *are*, among others. If FOSS lowers your cost, +1 for FOSS and all, but it's by the way. Long term it does because absence of issues (vendor lock-in for example) it addresses as a consequence of its freedoms indeed lowers the cost. But it's hard to claim that attracting by lowering the cost was the original plan. (you're right if by cost you mean something else than the raw money) -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 02/08/2015 01:09 PM, Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: On 7 February 2015 at 13:22, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbfa...@libreoffice.org wrote: Le 06/02/2015 22:02, Urmas a écrit : Italo Vignoli: You need to understand that there are only two kinds of soft- and hardware: that which solves the client problem at adequate cost, and that which doesn't. Anything else is irrelevant. You're right. But the issue is how you calculate the costs. For me proprietary licenses are unacceptable high costs for office suites. In other words, proprietary licenses create problems and do not solve none of my problems. The FOSS isn't to lower your cost. Freeware and SaaS/Freemium *are*, among others. If FOSS lowers your cost, +1 for FOSS and all, but it's by the way. Long term it does because absence of issues (vendor lock-in for example) it addresses as a consequence of its freedoms indeed lowers the cost. But it's hard to claim that attracting by lowering the cost was the original plan. (you're right if by cost you mean something else than the raw money) While we tend to focus on financial costs with FOSS vs proprietary that probably is not as big an issue for many. The real problem with proprietary packages is they often use proprietary file formats. If you realize that proprietary formats impede file sharing between users because each must have a reliable way of reading the format. This leaves at the mercy of the owner of the format; will they support it in the future or even will they be in business in the future. If one remember the 80's and early 90's every word processing program used its own format. While file sharing was not a prime concern, many of the programs were produced by companies that are out of business. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Hi :) I think my favourite answer so far has been Alex's. I liked all those stats kinda suggesting that one reason for excluding MS Office from the poll is just that it's sooo unpopular in Linux. Regards from Tom :) On 8 February 2015 at 18:09, Jaroslaw Staniek stan...@kde.org wrote: On 7 February 2015 at 13:22, Jean-Baptiste Faure jbfa...@libreoffice.org wrote: Le 06/02/2015 22:02, Urmas a écrit : Italo Vignoli: You need to understand that there are only two kinds of soft- and hardware: that which solves the client problem at adequate cost, and that which doesn't. Anything else is irrelevant. You're right. But the issue is how you calculate the costs. For me proprietary licenses are unacceptable high costs for office suites. In other words, proprietary licenses create problems and do not solve none of my problems. The FOSS isn't to lower your cost. Freeware and SaaS/Freemium *are*, among others. If FOSS lowers your cost, +1 for FOSS and all, but it's by the way. Long term it does because absence of issues (vendor lock-in for example) it addresses as a consequence of its freedoms indeed lowers the cost. But it's hard to claim that attracting by lowering the cost was the original plan. (you're right if by cost you mean something else than the raw money) -- regards, Jaroslaw Staniek KDE: : A world-wide network of software engineers, artists, writers, translators : and facilitators committed to Free Software development - http://kde.org Calligra Suite: : A graphic art and office suite - http://calligra.org Kexi: : A visual database apps builder - http://calligra.org/kexi Qt Certified Specialist: : http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Il 06/02/2015 09:35, Graham Luffrum ha scritto: Urmas, I obviously missed the announcement that MS have a version of Office for Linux. Can you please provide the link. Hey, Hi! Still waiting for the link from him/her... On 6 February 2015 at 06:04, Urmas davian...@gmail.com wrote: Robinson Tryon: Grabbing over 86% of the vote, LibreOffice was announced to be the winner of the 'Office Suite of the Year' poll: Any poll without Microsoft Office option is invalid. -- Valter Open Source is better! LibreOffice: www.libreoffice.org KDE: www.kde.org Kubuntu: www.kubuntu.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Le 06/02/2015 22:02, Urmas a écrit : Italo Vignoli: You need to understand that there are only two kinds of soft- and hardware: that which solves the client problem at adequate cost, and that which doesn't. Anything else is irrelevant. You're right. But the issue is how you calculate the costs. For me proprietary licenses are unacceptable high costs for office suites. In other words, proprietary licenses create problems and do not solve none of my problems. Best regards. JBF -- Seuls des formats ouverts peuvent assurer la pérennité de vos documents. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Valter Mura: a version of Office for Linux. Can you please provide the link. Still waiting for the link... This version is called 'wine' and it's available in your repository or at www.winehq.org/download. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/02/15 09:09, Paul wrote: Surely running MSO under Wine on Linux is a valid choice? Not one I would choose, for sure, but a choice that should be on the poll none the less? The idea is to highlight _Linux_ software. By allowing _use x under WINE_ as an option_, the poll then becomes a contest about the non-native software. That would also mandate including programs whose developers have promised will never be released as native *Nix software. jonathon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJU1TlBAAoJEKG7hs8nSMR77rIP/0WDc8UHmZVZrLL7hFa6W8iv XOzM2eoGOU84Z+yaE1z5JWURFsmyTp8iBfudoeJgrbf2j75Q2sPHXlfLyioRNK1o oTL6Htqw9bPUXbXbtuuf2LeIXFjhk5haKh3dpTWHuSNEums1pzA06pNrvZLjgeWx 0xuTObBkRfd+hp4CTeMG1Bc/22O13ZU1JzVIeZhFtPYZku4BGactDm0eN5iKUAkI 9p6RCQttDNlRbfXzL1bCg1wIvQHvYamQNfmY80d4RuSqvKqD3k0Q03wei8EQKK/Q g6WQm07/JgVugxP9BUKA0Ttz5HrMY+pYW2MlWNk9BzHgFdGon6sO6IYL2luOoqXv hN9SGKUFtDFIJwcAN8k+uyUVZWN7YP9YKvJkT7Z4hWATN6dO+6aiDSpn4v2Ypzut E7wY2yyWnmwbShZcoCdfJRvzaG5OftnxH72j1a+AZs8sth5c28bLXEtM7cBLQyy/ NPeCsXq5zO1bJFeeEH5K4ozMEdKbW2R+uv2elCp9qY+5eBaY95CvamUe7ePKEZH4 1URZMEsbOy71Ly3wXcgo8MRizS6WSepQnJHS1pYcZHmP2S1bAuTxN4hV39BXCxad eYvLK+291LTQnp0yOjT+y9Fe3+t9AUqMbD8EnsBs/HnX8kHXirCM9xW90rluED6N VqoLlsHFNdoJp5bz1u73 =L38J -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 02/06/2015 04:59 PM, jonathon wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 06/02/15 09:09, Paul wrote: Surely running MSO under Wine on Linux is a valid choice? Not one I would choose, for sure, but a choice that should be on the poll none the less? The idea is to highlight _Linux_ software. By allowing _use x under WINE_ as an option_, the poll then becomes a contest about the non-native software. That would also mandate including programs whose developers have promised will never be released as native *Nix software. jonathon I have read a bunch of these posts and although at least one person thinks that MS office products MUST be on the list for it to be valid, has anyone really asked the question, can Wine run the product in question? Microsoft Word 2013 is known to NOT work There are only 8 votes requesting that it be made to work. https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=10959 When Microsoft creates their products, they generally push the envelope and use the newest latest libraries, which Crossover is less likely to have ported. So, if MSO was included in the list as things that people run on Linux, then they would need to include numerous versions to try to get one that people are using. There is not even an entry for MS Excel 2013, so no one has even cared enough to create one. If I look at the MS Office 97 entry, there are zero votes to make it work, and only 149 CrossTie Downloads (downloads of the automated Cross-Over office installation stuff). Now, to be more positive on MSO having any bearing, the generic MSO 2013 entry (which is listed as known to not work) has 158 votes asking them to make it work. https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=10518;details=1 Here are their top 25 requested to make work applications: The first number is the rank, the second is the number of votes. 1. 158 · Microsoft Office 2013 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=10518 2. 49 · Star Wars: The Old Republic https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7626 3. 38 · The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=9766 4. 36 · Origin https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=9509 5. 36 · VMware vSphere Client https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=8014 6. 33 · Diablo III https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=6277 7. 30 · Guild Wars 2 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7951 8. 27 · World of Warcraft https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7714 9. 25 · The Elder Scrolls Online https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=11974 10. 24 · Quicken 2014 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=12227 11. 24 · WildStar https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=9742 12. 23 · Microsoft Outlook 2013 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=10958 13. 21 · League of Legends https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=6282 14. 20 · Final Fantasy XIV https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7892 15. 20 · Steam https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=206 16. 18 · Microsoft Visio Professional 2013 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=11726 17. 18 · Civilization V https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7234 18. 17 · Microsoft Outlook 2010 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=6135 19. 16 · Microsoft Visio 2010 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7688 20. 15 · Microsoft Office 365 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=11826 21. 14 · World of Tanks https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=7998 22. 13 · Elite Dangerous https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=12975 23. 13 · Internet Explorer 10 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=11348 24. 12 · Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 5 https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=11808 25. 12 · StarCraft II: Heart of the Swarm https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name?app_id=11488 I think that it does not matter that it is not listed as a possibility as one of the top office products (or word processors) used on Linux. It looks like Word 2010 has 1507 crosstie downloads, so certainly some people are using older copies of Word. https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/browse/name/?app_id=6132;details=1 -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt Info: http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more:
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Urmas, I obviously missed the announcement that MS have a version of Office for Linux. Can you please provide the link. G. On 6 February 2015 at 06:04, Urmas davian...@gmail.com wrote: Robinson Tryon: Grabbing over 86% of the vote, LibreOffice was announced to be the winner of the 'Office Suite of the Year' poll: Any poll without Microsoft Office option is invalid. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
While at first glance this seems like an obvious troll, after thinking a bit I feel that there may be something to what Urmas said, though I would hardly call the poll invalid for the omission. As far as I know, Microsoft Office runs fine under Wine (please correct me if I'm wrong), and the Wine project does strive to point out that there is little difference between a native program and one running under Wine. Surely running MSO under Wine on Linux is a valid choice? Not one I would choose, for sure, but a choice that should be on the poll none the less? Thoughts? On Fri, 6 Feb 2015 11:04:53 +0600 Urmas davian...@gmail.com wrote: Robinson Tryon: Grabbing over 86% of the vote, LibreOffice was announced to be the winner of the 'Office Suite of the Year' poll: Any poll without Microsoft Office option is invalid. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Hi :) Perhaps. It might be good to suggest it to the organisers for next year's poll. Certainly Skype was included, so why not? Unlike with Skype i suspect that the majority vote would still go to LibreOffice anyway. Our community is stronger and pulls together better. People have often identified Urmas as being a troll but often miss his valid and useful posts as a result. Regards from Tom :) On 6 February 2015 at 09:09, Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: While at first glance this seems like an obvious troll, after thinking a bit I feel that there may be something to what Urmas said, though I would hardly call the poll invalid for the omission. As far as I know, Microsoft Office runs fine under Wine (please correct me if I'm wrong), and the Wine project does strive to point out that there is little difference between a native program and one running under Wine. Surely running MSO under Wine on Linux is a valid choice? Not one I would choose, for sure, but a choice that should be on the poll none the less? Thoughts? On Fri, 6 Feb 2015 11:04:53 +0600 Urmas davian...@gmail.com wrote: Robinson Tryon: Grabbing over 86% of the vote, LibreOffice was announced to be the winner of the 'Office Suite of the Year' poll: Any poll without Microsoft Office option is invalid. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? The Wine people seem to want to change that perception, and although I share it, I can't quite say why, other than it a) feels wrong (which doesn't really have any technical basis), and b) might be slower, but here the Wine people seem to be suggesting that this is either not the case, or not noticeably the case. Do you have any evidence to suggest it might be the case, or do you have other reasons to consider it not comparable? While some might feel that Wine doesn't count, as you can just run any old windows program that way and it's not linux, for many Wine represents a way to get the best of both worlds, both the advantages of linux and the programs that they either are used to or can't find alternatives on linux for. When it comes to the question of which office suite people on linux use, I feel it is a valid option, even if not one I would recommend. Especially as this is a poll of what people are actually using, not what people consider the most linux. On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 11:07:49 +0100 Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote: On 06/02/15 10:34, Tom Davies wrote: Perhaps. It might be good to suggest it to the organisers for next year's poll. Certainly Skype was included, so why not? Unlike with Skype i suspect that the majority vote would still go to LibreOffice anyway. Our community is stronger and pulls together better. Skype is available for Linux, Microsoft Office is not (and I would not consider the Wine option as comparable to a native Linux version). -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 06/02/15 12:25, Paul wrote: Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? Because it allows to run proprietary software for a proprietary operating system, which is something I would definitely avoid in a Linux environment. -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795 email it...@libreoffice.org - skype italovignoli email / hangout italo.vign...@gmail.com GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 06/02/15 10:34, Tom Davies wrote: Perhaps. It might be good to suggest it to the organisers for next year's poll. Certainly Skype was included, so why not? Unlike with Skype i suspect that the majority vote would still go to LibreOffice anyway. Our community is stronger and pulls together better. Skype is available for Linux, Microsoft Office is not (and I would not consider the Wine option as comparable to a native Linux version). -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795 email it...@libreoffice.org - skype italovignoli email / hangout italo.vign...@gmail.com GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 06/02/15 06:04, Urmas wrote: Any poll without Microsoft Office option is invalid. Is Microsoft Office available for Linux? I do not think so. The poll is run by LinuxQuestions, so Microsoft Office advocates can just avoid to have a look and rest in peace. -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795 email it...@libreoffice.org - skype italovignoli email / hangout italo.vign...@gmail.com GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Hi :) Yes it does feel badly wrong and kinda makes my skin crawl. Also i am fairly sure that various parts of MS Office wont work properly - for example Sharepoint, One Note, Outlook, Access and other things are quite often troublesome even on Windows and some block such things as having 2 different versions of MS Office on one machine. However i do still think it would be good to see MS Office included in the polls next year. I must admit i am completely confident in MS Office getting a humiliating defeat on Linux. That in itself would be nice to see. :) Wine Is Not an Emulator and doesn't create an extra layer between the programs and the bare-metal of the machine. So things on Wine often run just as fast and sometimes even faster than they would run on Windows. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Linux is better at running MS Office than Windows is! It certainly happens that way with some games and things apparently. Also if MS Office can be run with any degree of success in Windows then it opens another way for people to migrate to Linux and removes one of the biggest obstacles much earlier in the process. Of course people will later find that OpenOffice is better and LibreOffice is MUCH better than MS Office but they could discover that at a more relaxed pace. So i would like to see MS Office put forwards next year, but mostly because i would enjoy seeing it soundly and humiliatingly defeated by all the rest of the suites and especially by LibreOffice. Regards from Tom :) On 6 February 2015 at 11:25, Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? The Wine people seem to want to change that perception, and although I share it, I can't quite say why, other than it a) feels wrong (which doesn't really have any technical basis), and b) might be slower, but here the Wine people seem to be suggesting that this is either not the case, or not noticeably the case. Do you have any evidence to suggest it might be the case, or do you have other reasons to consider it not comparable? While some might feel that Wine doesn't count, as you can just run any old windows program that way and it's not linux, for many Wine represents a way to get the best of both worlds, both the advantages of linux and the programs that they either are used to or can't find alternatives on linux for. When it comes to the question of which office suite people on linux use, I feel it is a valid option, even if not one I would recommend. Especially as this is a poll of what people are actually using, not what people consider the most linux. On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 11:07:49 +0100 Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote: On 06/02/15 10:34, Tom Davies wrote: Perhaps. It might be good to suggest it to the organisers for next year's poll. Certainly Skype was included, so why not? Unlike with Skype i suspect that the majority vote would still go to LibreOffice anyway. Our community is stronger and pulls together better. Skype is available for Linux, Microsoft Office is not (and I would not consider the Wine option as comparable to a native Linux version). -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Of course, that said, reading a bit further into the posts on the poll seems to indicate that they specifically didn't include Wine + MSO because they wanted only linux native options, otherwise the field was just too big. Which is fine, but then it changes the question from What is the most used (or popular) office suite on linux to What is the most used (or popular) native linux office suite. Both are valid questions, but they are subtly, and importantly, different. On Fri, 6 Feb 2015 13:25:13 +0200 Paul paulste...@afrihost.co.za wrote: Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? The Wine people seem to want to change that perception, and although I share it, I can't quite say why, other than it a) feels wrong (which doesn't really have any technical basis), and b) might be slower, but here the Wine people seem to be suggesting that this is either not the case, or not noticeably the case. Do you have any evidence to suggest it might be the case, or do you have other reasons to consider it not comparable? While some might feel that Wine doesn't count, as you can just run any old windows program that way and it's not linux, for many Wine represents a way to get the best of both worlds, both the advantages of linux and the programs that they either are used to or can't find alternatives on linux for. When it comes to the question of which office suite people on linux use, I feel it is a valid option, even if not one I would recommend. Especially as this is a poll of what people are actually using, not what people consider the most linux. On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 11:07:49 +0100 Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote: On 06/02/15 10:34, Tom Davies wrote: Perhaps. It might be good to suggest it to the organisers for next year's poll. Certainly Skype was included, so why not? Unlike with Skype i suspect that the majority vote would still go to LibreOffice anyway. Our community is stronger and pulls together better. Skype is available for Linux, Microsoft Office is not (and I would not consider the Wine option as comparable to a native Linux version). -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On Fri, 06 Feb 2015 12:46:05 +0100 Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote: On 06/02/15 12:25, Paul wrote: Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? Because it allows to run proprietary software for a proprietary operating system, which is something I would definitely avoid in a Linux environment. Well, sure, and I agree with you (at least for the most part), but that's not relevant to the poll as far as I can see. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
On 2/6/2015 4:09 AM, Paul wrote: While at first glance this seems like an obvious troll, after thinking a bit I feel that there may be something to what Urmas said, though I would hardly call the poll invalid for the omission. As far as I know, Microsoft Office runs fine under Wine (please correct me if I'm wrong), and the Wine project does strive to point out that there is little difference between a native program and one running under Wine. Surely running MSO under Wine on Linux is a valid choice? Not one I would choose, for sure, but a choice that should be on the poll none the less? Thoughts? For what it's worth, I've never had *any* program run fine under Wine. They either don't run at all, or they hang up on me, or whatever. Now, I won't blame Wine or Windows or anything else. It may be I need more education on Wine, but I don't have the incentive to take the time to learn. With a dual boot machine, any time I need to run a Windows program, I just boot into Windows. That said, it might be interesting to see how the poll might fare if there were an option of MS Office running under Wine. Does anybody actually do that? Virgil -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Hi :) +1 I agree that it is a really bad idea to run proprietary programs on Linux but i would widen it and say that it's a bad idea to run them anywhere. However, I don't think there is a significant increase in how bad it would be on Linux. Of course part of the whole advantage of running Linux is that it gives easy access to non-proprietary programs and packages. Using a proprietary program is a bit crazy! However another big advantage of Linux is that it gives greater freedom OF choice whereas MS tends to try to give people freedom FROM choice. If people want to run proprietary systems then it's their own choice but they will probably increasingly find that the non-proprietary systems are better. They just need to be exposed to the choice more easily than they would be on Windows and then they will gradually migrate. Part of the reason people are so terrified of using non-MS programs on Windows is because the whole of Windows is so vulnerable and such a mess that the slightest thing makes it fall over. Once on Linux, people tend to find it's quite safe to play around and experiment with all sorts of things and fairly easy to recover even if they seriously break things. So although it makes me shudder i think it would be kinda funny to see people attempting to use MS Office despite all the alternatives being better and free and easier to install. Regards from Tom :) On 6 February 2015 at 11:46, Italo Vignoli it...@libreoffice.org wrote: On 06/02/15 12:25, Paul wrote: Out of interest Italo, why would you say the Wine option is not comparable to a native binary? Because it allows to run proprietary software for a proprietary operating system, which is something I would definitely avoid in a Linux environment. -- Italo Vignoli - The Document Foundation mob IT +39.348.5653829 - mob EU +39.392.7481795 email it...@libreoffice.org - skype italovignoli email / hangout italo.vign...@gmail.com GPG Key ID - 0xAAB8D5C0 DB75 1534 3FD0 EA5F 56B5 FDA6 DE82 934C AAB8 D5C0 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-users] Re: LinuxQuestions.org's Office Suite of the Year: LibreOffice!
Robinson Tryon: Grabbing over 86% of the vote, LibreOffice was announced to be the winner of the 'Office Suite of the Year' poll: Any poll without Microsoft Office option is invalid. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
