Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Russ Fineman]

I filter on [libreoffice-users] and Ref:[libreoffice-users] in Subject
line with no problems. I route them to a local folder LibreOffice. I do
it for various lists.

Tom Davies wrote:
 Hi :)
 Is it possible to set filters to look for items in a subject-line instead of 
 looking at where replies might go to?  Messages from the users list always 
 seem to have [libreoffice-users] in the subject-line but not always in the 
 same place ...
 Regards from
 Tom :)  
 
 
 --- On Tue, 14/8/12, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:
 
 From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com
 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
 To: users@global.libreoffice.org
 Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 15:24
 
 On 08/14/2012 08:00 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 On 2012-08-13 4:01 PM, Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Yesterday, your changes broke my email filter which puts libreoffice
 user group messages in a specific folder. But then I changed the filter
 from looking at Reply-To: to To: and thought that would suffice.
 Now, this morning I got 7 libreoffice messages in my correct folder via
 my filter change, and 4 messages direct from members in my main inbox,
 which my filter did not catch.  Your change may make it easy for you,
 but it is a nightmare for me.  There is no way I can create filters for
 all users who use their address.

 Wrong.

 In Thunderbird, just use the 'From, To, Cc or Bcc' option...

 
 I make sure the message filter checks if the email address is in any of the 
 options stated above.  It really works, except when someone sends the reply 
 to the list and to me directly.  At that point I get both messages in the 
 LibreOffice folder based on which list it is part of - i.e. this list is in 
 the LibreO - Users Global folder and the website list uses LibreO - 
 Website folder.
 
 I have been using Thunderbird for many years.  The only problem I have is I 
 cannot save the message filters.  When I have a system crash [when using 
 Windows] and had to reinstall Windows, I had no ability to reload the message 
 filters as I can with the saved emails and address-book.  When I went from 
 Windows to Ubuntu for my default system, I had to rebuild the Message 
 Filtering that had several years of growth that I had to rebuild from 
 scratch.
 
 -- off topic ---
 
 I currently read my emails from only one computer - my Ubuntu 10.04 desktop.  
 If I need to deal with emails on a different computer, I use my domain/email 
 hosting system's web-mail system.  Since I use the Ubuntu desktop, a Dell 
 laptop running Ubuntu 12.04/MATE and Vista, HP laptop running XP/pro, an 
 Android tablet, a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop attached to my HD-TV set for the types 
 of Internet audio/video that my Blu-ray player cannot do, and a few more 
 desktops running Ubuntu or XP that are spares or will be given to others who 
 need them and cannot afford to buy one themselves.
 
 With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a mess if 
 I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I could get a sync 
 system to work properly between the various Windows and Ubuntu systems.
 
 I currently use a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external hard drive[s] for backing up 
 my main Ubuntu desktop [it has the two drives - 1 TB and 2 TB - installed].  
 Then I can use these external drives to play AVI and MPG/MP4 files on my TV 
 via the Blu-ray player or listen to audio books with the ability to deal with 
 the volume and play/pause controls of the Blu-ray player and not having to 
 get up out of my comfy chair to do so with my computer.  The down side of 
 this is the USB drives must be Windows formatted and it takes a long time to 
 defrag/optimize the 2 TB drive. With 324 GB free space on that drive, it has 
 been over 26 hours running the Auslogics Disk Defrag software on a Dell 
 laptop - Pentium Dual core CPU T3200 @ 2.00 GHz, 32-bit Vista, with 3 GB of 
 RAM.
 
 I must keep the drives formatted to Windows systems so the Windows computers 
 and the Blu-ray player can access them.  But that is a small price to pay for 
 having all my media and data file accessible to all my computers and media 
 players that can use an external USB drive.  It is much better than having to 
 load up a 32 GB microSD flash card, and use a USB card reader, to share the 
 file[s] between devices.  Much slower as well.
 
 
 
 
 -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems? 
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
 
 


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
One event in 2 years is not worth creating a big fuss over.  It got fixed 
through some excellent work by Florian (as usual) and i think someone else.  
The vast majority of people seem to  realise that anything can go very public 
and perhaps even go viral very fast.  

We seldom seem to run into the problem of people not realise how to unsubscribe 
anymore either so perhaps people are just becoming more familiar with the 
problems of modern times and typical work-arounds (such as giving info in the 
sig at the bottom).  


While most email-client may have an easy way to reply to list the ones that 
are used by most people do not have the functionality and i can't imagine 
Microsoft adding it just to make things easier for TDF.  If we are aiming at 
avoiding converting or migrating MS Office users then making things difficult 
for them is fine.  

Most replies are really aimed at the list.  If they go elsewhere then that 
becomes confusing.  If people do want to respond off-list then it's fairly easy 
to copypaste an appropriate address into the To field.  


I thought the guide was interesting but it looked old and unaware of the 
problems that TDF faces.  The writer uses a very non-standard (NOT the smae as 
complying with ISO standards!) email-client and doesn't seem to give a hoot 
about anyone else.  


Normally i wouldn't mind trying something new like this for a couple of days 
but the timing makes it a total pita for me as i have hundreds of emails to get 
through and 2 clicks instead of 1 is a pita that i wouldn't normally notice so 
much.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Thu, 16/8/12, anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com wrote:

From: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: Bjørn Nilssen b...@bknilssen.no
Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Thursday, 16 August, 2012, 1:15

       exactly;
           and well expressed.



On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Bjørn K Nilssen b...@bknilssen.no wrote:

På Sun, 12 Aug 2012 18:31:07 +0200, skrev Florian Effenberger 
 flo...@documentfoundation.org**:


  Hello,

 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
 (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

 So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
 words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
 automatically sent directly to the list.


 Which is the whole idea of a mailing list IMO.



  In the past, this lead to two major problems:

 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
 where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
 where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
 worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people hit
 reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.


 That some people send private mail in public can't be a good argument to
 stop/hamper the flow on a miling list - surely?


  2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
 with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because of
 reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also led to
 the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who needed to
 spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden with others.
 While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just one way to find
 out...

 Therefore, I have applied a change:

 Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
 either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or -
 preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
 direct replies directly to the list.

 This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
 setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
 here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
 http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


 I checked every single one of my 52 current mailing lists, and not one
 single one of them follows that rule (except this one). One of them used
 the senders email + the list email in the Reply-To field, but that's it.
 And that list isn't really for discussing, but just for one-way information.

 I'd like to see some statistics that shows that 'most mailing lists' does
 not put the list address in the Reply-To field ?

 And where is the RFC?

 And the poll?
 Looks like most people wants to get it back to how it was, which is how
 all my other 51 lists still are?
 Using the 'Reply to all' option is not a good idea at all IMO.


  I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
 outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it, so I
 am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
 understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
 with reply-to mangling

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1

Yahoo is set-up to be a pita anyway, i know.  There is a reply button but to do 
a reply-to-all takes 2 clicks and you have to wait after the 1st click for it's 
sub-menu (with only 2 items in it) to appear.  Other, proper email-clients, may 
have tons of options but Yahoo only offers 2 including reply.  Does MS ever 
comply with RFCs?  Does it even try to or claim it tries to?

Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 14/8/12, Steven Shelton ste...@sheltonlegal.net wrote:

From: Steven Shelton ste...@sheltonlegal.net
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 15:49


-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
On 8/14/2012 5:50 AM, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
 My feedback is that I don't like the change at all.

I agree. The purpose of a list like this is to share information.
Typically, when a person on a list such as this one hits REPLY, that
person is participating in the larger conversation, and not intending to
send a private message to a specific person. Since that is the usual
intent, it should be the default.

I have been on some lists that have made this change, and typically
participation drops and group knowledge is lost. I think it's a solution
for a problem that doesn't really exist.

- -- 
Steven Shelton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
iEYEARECAAYFAlAqZW4ACgkQXUonIzCvpdM9GACeKV6ucNA0ROby6ppOoLP3DqfY
a7wAnjhcjFo0XdjBmhgQGvRNBaGrwuO1
=zGdT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Is it possible to set filters to look for items in a subject-line instead of 
looking at where replies might go to?  Messages from the users list always seem 
to have [libreoffice-users] in the subject-line but not always in the same 
place ...
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 14/8/12, webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:

From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P webmas...@krackedpress.com
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 15:24

On 08/14/2012 08:00 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:
 On 2012-08-13 4:01 PM, Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
 Yesterday, your changes broke my email filter which puts libreoffice
 user group messages in a specific folder. But then I changed the filter
 from looking at Reply-To: to To: and thought that would suffice.
 Now, this morning I got 7 libreoffice messages in my correct folder via
 my filter change, and 4 messages direct from members in my main inbox,
 which my filter did not catch.  Your change may make it easy for you,
 but it is a nightmare for me.  There is no way I can create filters for
 all users who use their address.
 
 Wrong.
 
 In Thunderbird, just use the 'From, To, Cc or Bcc' option...
 

I make sure the message filter checks if the email address is in any of the 
options stated above.  It really works, except when someone sends the reply to 
the list and to me directly.  At that point I get both messages in the 
LibreOffice folder based on which list it is part of - i.e. this list is in the 
LibreO - Users Global folder and the website list uses LibreO - Website 
folder.

I have been using Thunderbird for many years.  The only problem I have is I 
cannot save the message filters.  When I have a system crash [when using 
Windows] and had to reinstall Windows, I had no ability to reload the message 
filters as I can with the saved emails and address-book.  When I went from 
Windows to Ubuntu for my default system, I had to rebuild the Message Filtering 
that had several years of growth that I had to rebuild from scratch.

-- off topic ---

I currently read my emails from only one computer - my Ubuntu 10.04 desktop.  
If I need to deal with emails on a different computer, I use my domain/email 
hosting system's web-mail system.  Since I use the Ubuntu desktop, a Dell 
laptop running Ubuntu 12.04/MATE and Vista, HP laptop running XP/pro, an 
Android tablet, a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop attached to my HD-TV set for the types 
of Internet audio/video that my Blu-ray player cannot do, and a few more 
desktops running Ubuntu or XP that are spares or will be given to others who 
need them and cannot afford to buy one themselves.

With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a mess if I 
tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I could get a sync system 
to work properly between the various Windows and Ubuntu systems.

I currently use a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external hard drive[s] for backing up my 
main Ubuntu desktop [it has the two drives - 1 TB and 2 TB - installed].  Then 
I can use these external drives to play AVI and MPG/MP4 files on my TV via the 
Blu-ray player or listen to audio books with the ability to deal with the 
volume and play/pause controls of the Blu-ray player and not having to get up 
out of my comfy chair to do so with my computer.  The down side of this is the 
USB drives must be Windows formatted and it takes a long time to 
defrag/optimize the 2 TB drive. With 324 GB free space on that drive, it has 
been over 26 hours running the Auslogics Disk Defrag software on a Dell laptop 
- Pentium Dual core CPU T3200 @ 2.00 GHz, 32-bit Vista, with 3 GB of RAM.

I must keep the drives formatted to Windows systems so the Windows computers 
and the Blu-ray player can access them.  But that is a small price to pay for 
having all my media and data file accessible to all my computers and media 
players that can use an external USB drive.  It is much better than having to 
load up a 32 GB microSD flash card, and use a USB card reader, to share the 
file[s] between devices.  Much slower as well.




-- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Hmmm, over 60% of the worlds top 50 supercomputers use GnuLinux and most of 
the rest use other unix-based platforms.  So anyone using the internet or any 
email system has probably used Linux.  Google servers run on GnuLinux.  Almost 
all mobile phones used GnuLinux although smart phones sometimes use something 
else.  

What people usually mean is they have never used it as a desktop OS.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 14/8/12, Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org wrote:

From: Andrew Douglas Pitonyak and...@pitonyak.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 6:12


I would bet that you have used a Linux based machine. and you just 
never knew it. Seems like Linux is everywhere. Seems that I own a DVR, a 
fancy Panasonic DVD player, and a phone that all seem to be based on 
Linux. It is everywhere, we just don't know it! :-)

On 08/13/2012 07:55 PM, anne-ology wrote:
         you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
 machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com wrote:

 On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 Hello,

 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
 (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

 So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
 words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
 automatically sent directly to the list.

 In the past, this lead to two major problems:

 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
 where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
 where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
 worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
 hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

 2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
 with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
 of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
 led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
 needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
 with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
 one way to find out...

 Therefore, I have applied a change:

 Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
 either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
 - preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
 direct replies directly to the list.

 This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
 setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
 here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
 http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

 I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
 outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
 so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
 understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
 with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
 are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
 two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
 mutually exclusive to each other.

 In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
 again, I beg for your understanding.

 Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
 community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
 is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
 not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
 immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

 Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
 somehow sitting between two chairs here.

 Florian


 Hey All,

 Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an email
 tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux
 installation.

 For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on
 libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your email to
 the right folder.

 --
      _
     °v°
    /(_)\
     ^ ^  Mark LaPierre
 Registerd Linux user No #267004
 www.counter.li.org
 


-- 
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
+1

It is good to experiment and play around with things in search of the best 
answer.  I think the way it was before was the best way i have ever seen from 
any list.  I was bragging about it on the Ubuntu lists quite recently where 
they often have problems with the new type of system we have moved to.  
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 14/8/12, Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

From: Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 1:12

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to thank everyone for your feedback, and assure you that I read 
every bit, even if I don't manage to reply to every message in detail.

My offer stands valid, let's wait for some more feedback and some more days, 
and then make a final decision.

Florian

-- Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender)
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

-- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I am not sure about current usage levels but 2 areas that Sun had problems 
trying to break into were
1.  Windows users
2.  US and England etc
Europe, Brazil and many other places were quite happy to use a product that 
wasn't primarily about making huge profits for a certain US company.  

There is always a risk, when going for new markets, of losing stable and 
existing loyal customers.  Would gaining a lot of Windows users annoy the 
GnuLinux users so much they would leave?  

(It might be worth noting that the extremist group (probably not the way 
extremist is usually used these days), the Free Software Foundation and 
Richard Stallman backed LO where they would never back OOo (OOo is what AOO 
used to be called under Sun) so i doubt GnuLinux users would leave!  More 
likely the opposite and tons more would continue to keep joining.)  

Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 14/8/12, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com wrote:

From: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
Cc: Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com, users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 1:03

I primarily use SUSE but also osx and win. I support Anne.
If (as an example only) 80% of LO potential is win based and this is the 
target for growth then to be non-exclusive and encourage advancement in 
the win platform the support list should cater for the most common win. 
mail applications. Browser (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) or outlook.

If we are trying to stifle growth and keep LO in the linux club, then 
make it easy for linux users and less convenient for others.

Steve

On 2012-08-14 11:55, anne-ology wrote:
         you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
 machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com wrote:

 On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 Hello,

 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
 (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

 So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
 words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
 automatically sent directly to the list.

 In the past, this lead to two major problems:

 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
 where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
 where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
 worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
 hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

 2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
 with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
 of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
 led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
 needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
 with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
 one way to find out...

 Therefore, I have applied a change:

 Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
 either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
 - preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
 direct replies directly to the list.

 This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
 setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
 here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
 http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

 I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
 outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
 so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
 understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
 with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
 are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
 two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
 mutually exclusive to each other.

 In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
 again, I beg for your understanding.

 Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
 community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
 is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
 not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
 immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

 Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
 somehow sitting between two chairs here.

 Florian


 Hey All,

 Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an email
 tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tanstaafl]

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:24 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a
mess if I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I
could get a sync system to work properly between the various Windows
and Ubuntu systems.


This is what IMAP is for. I have 20+ accounts set up on 5 different 
computers, and work with the same mail on all of them, and they all stay 
in sync because of teh way IMAP works.


IMAP is the only way to do email, especially if you can host your own 
server.


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Jay Lozier]

On 08/16/2012 10:36 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
I am not sure about current usage levels but 2 areas that Sun had problems 
trying to break into were
1.  Windows users
2.  US and England etc
Europe, Brazil and many other places were quite happy to use a product that 
wasn't primarily about making huge profits for a certain US company.

There is always a risk, when going for new markets, of losing stable and existing 
loyal customers.  Would gaining a lot of Windows users annoy the GnuLinux 
users so much they would leave?

(It might be worth noting that the extremist group (probably not the way extremist is 
usually used these days), the Free Software Foundation and Richard Stallman backed LO where 
they would never back OOo (OOo is what AOO used to be called under Sun) so i doubt GnuLinux users 
would leave!  More likely the opposite and tons more would continue to keep joining.)

Regards from
Tom :)
My observation is that LO/AOO will be your default office suites for 
Linux users because we support ODF and MSO file formats as well as many 
others. While MSO formats can be problematical, they are extremely common.


For Mac and Windows users, you have more options both commercial and 
FOSS that support MSO file formats. IMHO the problems here are lack of 
awareness and the perception  of geekiness being required to install 
LO. Many Windows users rely on friends or family to help maintain their 
systems, install software, etc. I suspect most LO users are more 
comfortable with working on their system since LO requires a user 
install of either LO itself or the Linux distro. Note, I am not saying 
installing LO is difficult but that many potential users are afraid to 
personally install any software on their computers. Installing LO makes 
one a comparatively advanced computer user; you can actually install 
software on a computer.


IMHO, the real problems for LO are the overall size of the user base, 
reliance on word of mouth marketing, and lack of support by hardware 
vendors. The user base size means that many potential users are unaware 
of LO and have never seen it used. There are regional differences where 
LO is stronger. Word of mouth advertising is actually very effective but 
not necessarily very fast. Most hardware vendors (Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc) 
do not normally install LO on the retail machines but often install a 
crippled/trial version of MSO. This may change if MS continues to move 
into device manufacturing, hardware vendors may promote/install other 
products to avoid supporting MS.



--- On Tue, 14/8/12, Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com wrote:

From: Steve Edmonds steve.edmo...@ptglobal.com
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed
To: anne-ology lagin...@gmail.com
Cc: Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com, users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 14 August, 2012, 1:03

I primarily use SUSE but also osx and win. I support Anne.
If (as an example only) 80% of LO potential is win based and this is the
target for growth then to be non-exclusive and encourage advancement in
the win platform the support list should cater for the most common win.
mail applications. Browser (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) or outlook.

If we are trying to stifle growth and keep LO in the linux club, then
make it easy for linux users and less convenient for others.

Steve

On 2012-08-14 11:55, anne-ology wrote:

  you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com wrote:

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.

In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...

Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
- preferably

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[James Knott]

Tanstaafl wrote:

On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:24 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a
mess if I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I
could get a sync system to work properly between the various Windows
and Ubuntu systems.


This is what IMAP is for. I have 20+ accounts set up on 5 different 
computers, and work with the same mail on all of them, and they all 
stay in sync because of teh way IMAP works.


IMAP is the only way to do email, especially if you can host your own 
server.




I agree.  I have my own IMAP server at home.  It makes no difference 
which computer or email program I use, all the mail is synced.  It even 
works with my smart phone and tablet.  I also use Google Contacts to 
sync my address books everywhere.



--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Michael Manning]

I strongly support the change.  It is the fail-safe option.  Users of this
list know how to use their email to send back to the list

regards

Mike

-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Bjørn K Nilssen]

På Sun, 12 Aug 2012 18:31:07 +0200, skrev Florian Effenberger  
flo...@documentfoundation.org:



Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed  
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).


So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other  
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were  
automatically sent directly to the list.


Which is the whole idea of a mailing list IMO.



In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,  
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case  
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of  
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people  
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.


That some people send private mail in public can't be a good argument to  
stop/hamper the flow on a miling list - surely?


2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working  
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because  
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also  
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who  
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden  
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just  
one way to find out...


Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You  
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or  
- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will  
direct replies directly to the list.


This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default  
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel  
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at  
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


I checked every single one of my 52 current mailing lists, and not one  
single one of them follows that rule (except this one). One of them used  
the senders email + the list email in the Reply-To field, but that's it.  
And that list isn't really for discussing, but just for one-way  
information.


I'd like to see some statistics that shows that 'most mailing lists' does  
not put the list address in the Reply-To field ?


And where is the RFC?

And the poll?
Looks like most people wants to get it back to how it was, which is how  
all my other 51 lists still are?

Using the 'Reply to all' option is not a good idea at all IMO.

I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the  
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,  
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your  
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable  
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists  
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those  
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are  
mutually exclusive to each other.


In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and  
again, I beg for your understanding.


Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the  
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you  
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or  
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will  
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.


Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm  
somehow sitting between two chairs here.


Florian




--
Bjørn K Nilssen - b...@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   exactly;
   and well expressed.



On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Bjørn K Nilssen b...@bknilssen.no wrote:

På Sun, 12 Aug 2012 18:31:07 +0200, skrev Florian Effenberger 
 flo...@documentfoundation.org**:


  Hello,

 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
 (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

 So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
 words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
 automatically sent directly to the list.


 Which is the whole idea of a mailing list IMO.



  In the past, this lead to two major problems:

 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
 where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
 where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
 worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people hit
 reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.


 That some people send private mail in public can't be a good argument to
 stop/hamper the flow on a miling list - surely?


  2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
 with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because of
 reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also led to
 the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who needed to
 spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden with others.
 While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just one way to find
 out...

 Therefore, I have applied a change:

 Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
 either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or -
 preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
 direct replies directly to the list.

 This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
 setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
 here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
 http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


 I checked every single one of my 52 current mailing lists, and not one
 single one of them follows that rule (except this one). One of them used
 the senders email + the list email in the Reply-To field, but that's it.
 And that list isn't really for discussing, but just for one-way information.

 I'd like to see some statistics that shows that 'most mailing lists' does
 not put the list address in the Reply-To field ?

 And where is the RFC?

 And the poll?
 Looks like most people wants to get it back to how it was, which is how
 all my other 51 lists still are?
 Using the 'Reply to all' option is not a good idea at all IMO.


  I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
 outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it, so I
 am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
 understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
 with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists are
 unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those two,
 even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are mutually
 exclusive to each other.

 In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
 again, I beg for your understanding.

 Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
 community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you is
 to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or not.
 Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will immediately
 switch back to the old behaviour.

 Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
 somehow sitting between two chairs here.

 Florian



 --
 Bjørn K Nilssen



-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Andrew Brager]

The questions on your poll are rather leading.  The items you have 
selected as questions are really not the issue at all.


This list is still a list, what else could it be?  You're using it right 
now as you're complaining about it.  So clearly, it's not private 
communication at all.  You simply have to make a conscious decision as 
to whom you wish to reply to.  Yes, you must _think_ about it for a 
second or two until you get used to the new way. (And you know what?  
You did it!  Otherwise I wouldn't be seeing your message right now.  Was 
it really that hard?)


webmaster-Kracked_P_P stated exactly that. To wit: /I am so use to 
pressing Reply and the next button being Reply All, that I now have 
to remember to skip the Reply button and remember that the Reply All 
button has been replaced with Reply List./


Seriously?  We're complaining about remembering to move the mouse a hair 
to the right?  And it's become a major issue among the users here?  I 
think there's more discussion about this then there is voter turnout 
(apologies to the non-voting countries).


What you're really saying is you don't want to change your habits.  
That, I can understand; old habits die hard.  However, with a little 
effort and a little practice the new way will soon grow on you and 
you'll eventually forget what it was you were so upset about.


Now I don't know what email client you're using and perhaps it's a 
hassle for you in some other way.  Is that the case?   I'm using 
Thunderbird and so I simply hit Reply List instead of Reply. Not a 
big deal.  It takes an extra nanosecond to make the conscious decision 
to hit one button instead of another.  Do you have to do more work than 
that?


Back in my day, we had to hike 10 miles uphill in the snow to press a 
different button and we were happy to do it ;-)



On 8/13/2012 12:19 PM, anne-ology wrote:

exactly.

Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual list
  or
  (2) to change this from a list to private
communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
the ins  outs of LO.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:



I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the thread
by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button and
remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply List.
  This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the reply
posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.

Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead the
How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.

I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  This
is going to be a problem, maybe.



On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:


 exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
the
list to hear what's new and learn from others.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


  I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List

instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.

I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make
it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the
email
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will
be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use
the
new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.

  myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private

email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I
had
trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.

the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not
a
big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

F.


--
Felmon Davis



//

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Bjørn K Nilssen]

På Tue, 14 Aug 2012 02:12:33 +0200, skrev Florian Effenberger  
flo...@documentfoundation.org:



Hello everyone,

I just wanted to thank everyone for your feedback, and assure you that I  
read every bit, even if I don't manage to reply to every message in  
detail.


My offer stands valid, let's wait for some more feedback and some more  
days, and then make a final decision.


My feedback is that I don't like the change at all.
Most of the mailing lists I subscribe to nowadays (~50 lists) are on Yahoo  
or Google, and none of them behaves like this, with no Reply-To field.  
They all have the standard Reply-To list field.
And so do the few non-Yahoo/Google lists. LO is now the only exception,  
and I actually out of old habit replied to your post as I always do to  
lists (and emails), before I noticed that I was writing to your email  
instead of to the list.

Please switch back!

--
Bjørn K Nilssen - b...@bknilssen.no - 3D and panoramas

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-08-13 4:01 PM, Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

I hope this gets to the right place.  I used Reply All in
Thunderbird.  The header looks correct, but people are going to get
duplicate messages.


Why not 'Reply to List' (I use the keyboard shortcut, CTRL-SHIFT-L)?

Thunderbird added this a long time ago...

That said, I agree that discussion lists (like this one) that are *not* 
discussing what would be considered 'private' issues - ie, like an email 
list for battered wives, etc - should always default to Reply-To munging 
(reply to the list address)...


Anything else just greatly reduces the effectiveness of the list.

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Tanstaafl]

On 2012-08-13 4:01 PM, Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Yesterday, your changes broke my email filter which puts libreoffice
user group messages in a specific folder. But then I changed the filter
from looking at Reply-To: to To: and thought that would suffice.
Now, this morning I got 7 libreoffice messages in my correct folder via
my filter change, and 4 messages direct from members in my main inbox,
which my filter did not catch.  Your change may make it easy for you,
but it is a nightmare for me.  There is no way I can create filters for
all users who use their address.


Wrong.

In Thunderbird, just use the 'From, To, Cc or Bcc' option...

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

On 08/14/2012 08:00 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

On 2012-08-13 4:01 PM, Girvin R. Herr girvin.h...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Yesterday, your changes broke my email filter which puts libreoffice
user group messages in a specific folder. But then I changed the filter
from looking at Reply-To: to To: and thought that would suffice.
Now, this morning I got 7 libreoffice messages in my correct folder via
my filter change, and 4 messages direct from members in my main inbox,
which my filter did not catch.  Your change may make it easy for you,
but it is a nightmare for me.  There is no way I can create filters for
all users who use their address.


Wrong.

In Thunderbird, just use the 'From, To, Cc or Bcc' option...



I make sure the message filter checks if the email address is in any of 
the options stated above.  It really works, except when someone sends 
the reply to the list and to me directly.  At that point I get both 
messages in the LibreOffice folder based on which list it is part of - 
i.e. this list is in the LibreO - Users Global folder and the website 
list uses LibreO - Website folder.


I have been using Thunderbird for many years.  The only problem I have 
is I cannot save the message filters.  When I have a system crash [when 
using Windows] and had to reinstall Windows, I had no ability to reload 
the message filters as I can with the saved emails and address-book.  
When I went from Windows to Ubuntu for my default system, I had to 
rebuild the Message Filtering that had several years of growth that I 
had to rebuild from scratch.


-- off topic ---

I currently read my emails from only one computer - my Ubuntu 10.04 
desktop.  If I need to deal with emails on a different computer, I use 
my domain/email hosting system's web-mail system.  Since I use the 
Ubuntu desktop, a Dell laptop running Ubuntu 12.04/MATE and Vista, HP 
laptop running XP/pro, an Android tablet, a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop 
attached to my HD-TV set for the types of Internet audio/video that my 
Blu-ray player cannot do, and a few more desktops running Ubuntu or XP 
that are spares or will be given to others who need them and cannot 
afford to buy one themselves.


With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a 
mess if I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I could 
get a sync system to work properly between the various Windows and 
Ubuntu systems.


I currently use a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external hard drive[s] for backing 
up my main Ubuntu desktop [it has the two drives - 1 TB and 2 TB - 
installed].  Then I can use these external drives to play AVI and 
MPG/MP4 files on my TV via the Blu-ray player or listen to audio books 
with the ability to deal with the volume and play/pause controls of the 
Blu-ray player and not having to get up out of my comfy chair to do so 
with my computer.  The down side of this is the USB drives must be 
Windows formatted and it takes a long time to defrag/optimize the 2 TB 
drive. With 324 GB free space on that drive, it has been over 26 hours 
running the Auslogics Disk Defrag software on a Dell laptop - Pentium 
Dual core CPU T3200 @ 2.00 GHz, 32-bit Vista, with 3 GB of RAM.


I must keep the drives formatted to Windows systems so the Windows 
computers and the Blu-ray player can access them.  But that is a small 
price to pay for having all my media and data file accessible to all my 
computers and media players that can use an external USB drive.  It is 
much better than having to load up a 32 GB microSD flash card, and use a 
USB card reader, to share the file[s] between devices.  Much slower as well.





--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   and you have how many computers ???

   Just wondering, when do you have time for other things? - as eating,
sleeping, or conversing with others - as friends  family;
   and when do you tend to various jobs; both work  hobbies ???



On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:24 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:


 I make sure the message filter checks if the email address is in any of
 the options stated above.  It really works, except when someone sends the
 reply to the list and to me directly.  At that point I get both messages in
 the LibreOffice folder based on which list it is part of - i.e. this list
 is in the LibreO - Users Global folder and the website list uses LibreO
 - Website folder.

 I have been using Thunderbird for many years.  The only problem I have is
 I cannot save the message filters.  When I have a system crash [when using
 Windows] and had to reinstall Windows, I had no ability to reload the
 message filters as I can with the saved emails and address-book.  When I
 went from Windows to Ubuntu for my default system, I had to rebuild the
 Message Filtering that had several years of growth that I had to rebuild
 from scratch.

 -- off topic ---

 I currently read my emails from only one computer - my Ubuntu 10.04
 desktop.  If I need to deal with emails on a different computer, I use my
 domain/email hosting system's web-mail system.  Since I use the Ubuntu
 desktop, a Dell laptop running Ubuntu 12.04/MATE and Vista, HP laptop
 running XP/pro, an Android tablet, a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop attached to my
 HD-TV set for the types of Internet audio/video that my Blu-ray player
 cannot do, and a few more desktops running Ubuntu or XP that are spares or
 will be given to others who need them and cannot afford to buy one
 themselves.

 With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a mess
 if I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I could get a
 sync system to work properly between the various Windows and Ubuntu systems.

 I currently use a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external hard drive[s] for backing
 up my main Ubuntu desktop [it has the two drives - 1 TB and 2 TB -
 installed].  Then I can use these external drives to play AVI and MPG/MP4
 files on my TV via the Blu-ray player or listen to audio books with the
 ability to deal with the volume and play/pause controls of the Blu-ray
 player and not having to get up out of my comfy chair to do so with my
 computer.  The down side of this is the USB drives must be Windows
 formatted and it takes a long time to defrag/optimize the 2 TB drive. With
 324 GB free space on that drive, it has been over 26 hours running the
 Auslogics Disk Defrag software on a Dell laptop - Pentium Dual core CPU
 T3200 @ 2.00 GHz, 32-bit Vista, with 3 GB of RAM.

 I must keep the drives formatted to Windows systems so the Windows
 computers and the Blu-ray player can access them.  But that is a small
 price to pay for having all my media and data file accessible to all my
 computers and media players that can use an external USB drive.  It is much
 better than having to load up a 32 GB microSD flash card, and use a USB
 card reader, to share the file[s] between devices.  Much slower as well.



-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Steven Shelton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
On 8/14/2012 5:50 AM, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
 My feedback is that I don't like the change at all.

I agree. The purpose of a list like this is to share information.
Typically, when a person on a list such as this one hits REPLY, that
person is participating in the larger conversation, and not intending to
send a private message to a specific person. Since that is the usual
intent, it should be the default.

I have been on some lists that have made this change, and typically
participation drops and group knowledge is lost. I think it's a solution
for a problem that doesn't really exist.

- -- 
Steven Shelton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
iEYEARECAAYFAlAqZW4ACgkQXUonIzCvpdM9GACeKV6ucNA0ROby6ppOoLP3DqfY
a7wAnjhcjFo0XdjBmhgQGvRNBaGrwuO1
=zGdT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Steven Shelton]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
 
On 8/13/2012 7:36 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:
 Not trying to be rude. All of you should be smart enough to run an email 
 tool. After all you're all
Linux users who administer at least one Linux installation.


And, crap, this stupid change . . . this is the second time I've had to
send this because I forgot I have to send it to the list now.

What makes you think we are all linux users who administer at least one
linux installation?

I am a criminal defense attorney running Windows XP.




- -- 
Steven Shelton
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
 
iEYEARECAAYFAlAqZrQACgkQXUonIzCvpdPLwwCeLo6/K4c4J7heI3H+K8SjH+TF
n+kAn25pQbo16CQQ/mA5Kfuz92l19G8Y
=svqP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

3 desktops, 2 laptops, 1 tablet - currently out of storage cabinets and 
setup to run whenever I need it to.  More in storage.


1 Blu-ray Player with Internet content apps.

3 network printers [bw duplexing, color laser, USB 
printer/copier/scanner/fax], 1 USB printer [printer/scanner/copier], 
plus one USB printer in storage [just a printer]. each printer bought 
for specific uses.


running 2 wireless routers, sometimes 3, [one for my network and one for 
an isolated shared network for my neighbors [those I give the pass-code 
to] to get access to the Internet.  The secured shared network cannot 
access any part of my private one's data or printers.


After 3 strokes and a debilitating back injury, I no longer work. My 
life is based on pain and stress management.  So I read [or listen to 
books], watch TV, do some work on fixing friends' computers, deal with 
these lists, and help out several local not-for-profit groups and 
associations.


I have setup specific computers to do specific functions.

My Dell laptop came with Vista, but I also use it as a test bed for the 
newest Ubuntu versions.  I still use Ubuntu 10.04 on my default desktop 
[typing on it now], but I use the laptop to see how the newest versions 
of Ubuntu are working.  I found out that for Ubuntu 12.04, I prefer 
using MATE desktop environment over any other d.e. available for 12.04.  
I found out that 12.04/MATE will allow the Epson Artisan 810 
printer/scanner/copier/fax to work with XSane, while 10.04 cannot get 
the printer and XSane scanner software to work together.


I have a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop - Dell Optiplex - attached to my flat 
screen TV to access streaming content that my Blu-ray player cannot 
access or cannot do it easily.  My older HP laptop has a better wifi 
antenna so it can pick up hot-spots - or my private network - from a 
greater distance, and more bars, than my Dell laptop.


My living room is filled with computers, printers, books, DVDs and audio 
discs, paper supply drawers, plus a bit of this and that, besides a nice 
comfy chair and my TV and blu-ray systems.  Also I have my walker and 
wheelchair in their places to fill the rest of the room.  The only thing 
in the bedroom that is electronic is the CRT-TV and DVD/VCR player.



On 08/14/2012 10:37 AM, anne-ology wrote:

and you have how many computers ???

Just wondering, when do you have time for other things? - as eating,
sleeping, or conversing with others - as friends  family;
and when do you tend to various jobs; both work  hobbies ???



On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:24 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:



I make sure the message filter checks if the email address is in any of
the options stated above.  It really works, except when someone sends the
reply to the list and to me directly.  At that point I get both messages in
the LibreOffice folder based on which list it is part of - i.e. this list
is in the LibreO - Users Global folder and the website list uses LibreO
- Website folder.

I have been using Thunderbird for many years.  The only problem I have is
I cannot save the message filters.  When I have a system crash [when using
Windows] and had to reinstall Windows, I had no ability to reload the
message filters as I can with the saved emails and address-book.  When I
went from Windows to Ubuntu for my default system, I had to rebuild the
Message Filtering that had several years of growth that I had to rebuild
from scratch.

-- off topic ---

I currently read my emails from only one computer - my Ubuntu 10.04
desktop.  If I need to deal with emails on a different computer, I use my
domain/email hosting system's web-mail system.  Since I use the Ubuntu
desktop, a Dell laptop running Ubuntu 12.04/MATE and Vista, HP laptop
running XP/pro, an Android tablet, a Ubuntu 10.04 desktop attached to my
HD-TV set for the types of Internet audio/video that my Blu-ray player
cannot do, and a few more desktops running Ubuntu or XP that are spares or
will be given to others who need them and cannot afford to buy one
themselves.

With this mix of system being used for various tasks, I would have a mess
if I tried to read emails on more than one system, even if I could get a
sync system to work properly between the various Windows and Ubuntu systems.

I currently use a 1 TB and a 2 TB USB external hard drive[s] for backing
up my main Ubuntu desktop [it has the two drives - 1 TB and 2 TB -
installed].  Then I can use these external drives to play AVI and MPG/MP4
files on my TV via the Blu-ray player or listen to audio books with the
ability to deal with the volume and play/pause controls of the Blu-ray
player and not having to get up out of my comfy chair to do so with my
computer.  The down side of this is the USB drives must be Windows
formatted and it takes a long time to defrag/optimize the 2 TB drive. With
324 GB free space on that drive, it has been over 26 hours running the
Auslogics Disk Defrag 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Jay Lozier]

On 08/14/2012 10:54 AM, Steven Shelton wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
  
On 8/13/2012 7:36 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

Not trying to be rude. All of you should be smart enough to run an email tool. 
After all you're all

Linux users who administer at least one Linux installation.


And, crap, this stupid change . . . this is the second time I've had to
send this because I forgot I have to send it to the list now.

What makes you think we are all linux users who administer at least one
linux installation?

I am a criminal defense attorney running Windows XP.



+1 (even though I use Linux)


- -- 
Steven Shelton

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
  
iEYEARECAAYFAlAqZrQACgkQXUonIzCvpdPLwwCeLo6/K4c4J7heI3H+K8SjH+TF

n+kAn25pQbo16CQQ/mA5Kfuz92l19G8Y
=svqP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-





--
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   exactly; and well said.



On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Steven Shelton ste...@sheltonlegal.netwrote:


 On 8/14/2012 5:50 AM, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
  My feedback is that I don't like the change at all.

 I agree. The purpose of a list like this is to share information.
 Typically, when a person on a list such as this one hits REPLY, that
 person is participating in the larger conversation, and not intending to
 send a private message to a specific person. Since that is the usual
 intent, it should be the default.

 I have been on some lists that have made this change, and typically
 participation drops and group knowledge is lost. I think it's a solution
 for a problem that doesn't really exist.

 - --
 Steven Shelton


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Joep L. Blom]

On 14-08-12 19:03, anne-ology wrote:

wow, you should be a great attorney;
you're very expressive.



On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 9:54 AM, Steven Shelton ste...@sheltonlegal.netwrote:




On 8/13/2012 7:36 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

Not trying to be rude. All of you should be smart enough to run an email

tool. After all you're all
Linux users who administer at least one Linux installation.


And, crap, this stupid change . . . this is the second time I've had to
send this because I forgot I have to send it to the list now.

What makes you think we are all linux users who administer at least one
linux installation?

I am a criminal defense attorney running Windows XP.


- --
Steven Shelton




Sorry,
All of you that resent the change are in error. The RFC requires this 
change moreover it is much more logical. That Windows users don't 
understand simple logic is their problem (but understandable).

Joep


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List 
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.


I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a 
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make 
it easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the 
email address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This 
will be easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget 
to use the new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.





On 08/12/2012 09:53 PM, Anthony Easthope wrote:

I quite like this idea of change as it now seems that less mistakes
should be made!

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 01:33 AM, Brian Barker wrote:

At 18:31 12/08/2012 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have
changed (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

Well done!

This new way fails safe.  A message intended to be public may get
sent privately by mistake - a minor inconvenience that can easily be
remedied by sending the message again correctly.  The old method
risked messages intended to be private being sent publicly - a
unfortunate consequence that simply cannot be undone.

Interestingly, there's an argument that list processors have no
business inserting a Reply-To header, which is instead the sole
domain of the message's author.  RFC 2822 appears to require this:
'When the Reply-To: field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es)
to which the *author* of the message suggests that replies be sent
(my emphasis).  The author of a message, of course, is not the list.

Brian Barker


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted






--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Felmon Davis]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:



I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List 
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.


I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a 
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make it 
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the email 
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will be 
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use the 
new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.


myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private 
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because 
I had trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word 
('hucksterism') in.


the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. 
not a big deal for me since I mostly lurk.


F.


On 08/12/2012 09:53 PM, Anthony Easthope wrote:

I quite like this idea of change as it now seems that less mistakes
should be made!

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 01:33 AM, Brian Barker wrote:

At 18:31 12/08/2012 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have
changed (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

Well done!

This new way fails safe.  A message intended to be public may get
sent privately by mistake - a minor inconvenience that can easily be
remedied by sending the message again correctly.  The old method
risked messages intended to be private being sent publicly - a
unfortunate consequence that simply cannot be undone.

Interestingly, there's an argument that list processors have no
business inserting a Reply-To header, which is instead the sole
domain of the message's author.  RFC 2822 appears to require this:
'When the Reply-To: field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es)
to which the *author* of the message suggests that replies be sent
(my emphasis).  The author of a message, of course, is not the list.

Brian Barker


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems?
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
deleted









--
Felmon Davis

Most of the fear that spoils our life comes from attacking 
difficulties

before we get to them.
-- Dr. Frank Crane


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing the
list to hear what's new and learn from others.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


 I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List
 instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.

 I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
 message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make it
 easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the email
 address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will be
 easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use the
 new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.


 myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
 email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I had
 trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
 ('hucksterism') in.

 the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not a
 big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

 F.



 --
 Felmon Davis



-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the 
thread by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button 
being Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply 
button and remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with 
Reply List.  This may cause some problems, if too many of our list 
users get the reply posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.


Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead 
the How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.


I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  
This is going to be a problem, maybe.



On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:

exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing the
list to hear what's new and learn from others.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:



I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.

I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the email
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use the
new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.


myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I had
trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.

the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not a
big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

F.


--
Felmon Davis





--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   exactly.

   Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual list
 or
 (2) to change this from a list to private
communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
the ins  outs of LO.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:


 I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the thread
 by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
 Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button and
 remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply List.
  This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the reply
 posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.

 Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead the
 How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.

 I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  This
 is going to be a problem, maybe.



 On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:

 exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
 list
 to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
 the
 list to hear what's new and learn from others.



 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

 On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


  I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List
 instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.

 I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
 message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make
 it
 easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the
 email
 address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will
 be
 easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use
 the
 new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.

  myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
 email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I
 had
 trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
 ('hucksterism') in.

 the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not
 a
 big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

 F.


 --
 Felmon Davis



-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Anthony Easthope]

To me it seems fairly straightforward. I use Opera mail and it is great
for mailing lists as it groups all replies to one thread in a
conversation view. it also has a *Reply to list and a *Reply all
functionality. It only seems logical to me to hit reply to list as
that is what it is. anyway as the cliche goes I was jus sayin

Regards
Anthony

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:19 PM, anne-ology wrote:
exactly.
 
Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual
list
  or
  (2) to change this from a list to
  private
 communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
 the ins  outs of LO.
 
 
 
 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
 webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:
 
 
  I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the thread
  by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
  Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button and
  remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply List.
   This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the reply
  posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.
 
  Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead the
  How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.
 
  I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  This
  is going to be a problem, maybe.
 
 
 
  On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
 
  exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
  list
  to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
  the
  list to hear what's new and learn from others.
 
 
 
  On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:
 
  On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
 
 
   I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List
  instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.
 
  I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
  message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make
  it
  easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the
  email
  address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will
  be
  easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use
  the
  new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.
 
   myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
  email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I
  had
  trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
  ('hucksterism') in.
 
  the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not
  a
  big deal for me since I mostly lurk.
 
  F.
 
 
  --
  Felmon Davis
 
 
 
 -- 
 For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems?
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
 deleted
 


-- 
  
  antiso...@myopera.com

-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Johnny Rosenberg]

I'm subscribed to quite a few lists by now, and some of them has had
this ”new” behaviour for quite some time. I was kind of hoping THEY
would change…


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Betti Ann and Preston Smith]

Exactly - and this is why I totally am not in favour of replying to the 
person rather than the list


Our British Car list used to reply to the list and if someone asked a 
question everyone saw the answers and ensuing dialogue. Someone 
complained about reply to list and the reply to was changed - the result 
is that we seldom see the responses to questions and folks receiving the 
info end up having to remember to forward all of the responses to the 
list so others can share


Not  a good idea to reply to sender on these help lists

Preston


anne-ology wrote:

exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing the
list to hear what's new and learn from others.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:



I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.

I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the email
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use the
new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.


myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I had
trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.

the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not a
big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

F.


--
Felmon Davis






--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Johnny Rosenberg]

2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
 To me it seems fairly straightforward. I use Opera mail and it is great
 for mailing lists as it groups all replies to one thread in a
 conversation view. it also has a *Reply to list and a *Reply all
 functionality. It only seems logical to me to hit reply to list as
 that is what it is. anyway as the cliche goes I was jus sayin

 Regards
 Anthony

When you say Opera mail, do you mean the Opera web mail or the Opera
M2 email client?


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ


 On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:19 PM, anne-ology wrote:
exactly.

Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual
list
  or
  (2) to change this from a list to
  private
 communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
 the ins  outs of LO.



 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
 webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:


  I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the thread
  by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
  Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button and
  remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply List.
   This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the reply
  posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.
 
  Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead the
  How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.
 
  I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  This
  is going to be a problem, maybe.
 
 
 
  On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
 
  exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
  list
  to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
  the
  list to hear what's new and learn from others.
 
 
 
  On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:
 
  On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
 
 
   I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply List
  instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 14.0.
 
  I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to post a
  message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make
  it
  easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the
  email
  address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This will
  be
  easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to use
  the
  new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.
 
   myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
  email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I
  had
  trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
  ('hucksterism') in.
 
  the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. not
  a
  big deal for me since I mostly lurk.
 
  F.
 
 
  --
  Felmon Davis
 
 

 --
 For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems?
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
 deleted



 --

   antiso...@myopera.com

 --
 For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems? 
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Anthony Easthope]

Opera Webmail. I move around to much on computers to use a dedicated
mail client. http://mail.opera.com

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:39 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
 2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
  To me it seems fairly straightforward. I use Opera mail and it is great
  for mailing lists as it groups all replies to one thread in a
  conversation view. it also has a *Reply to list and a *Reply all
  functionality. It only seems logical to me to hit reply to list as
  that is what it is. anyway as the cliche goes I was jus sayin
 
  Regards
  Anthony
 
 When you say Opera mail, do you mean the Opera web mail or the Opera
 M2 email client?
 
 
 Kind regards
 
 Johnny Rosenberg
 ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ
 
 
  On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:19 PM, anne-ology wrote:
 exactly.
 
 Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual
 list
   or
   (2) to change this from a list to
   private
  communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
  the ins  outs of LO.
 
 
 
  On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
  webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:
 
 
   I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the 
   thread
   by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
   Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button and
   remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply List.
This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the 
   reply
   posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.
  
   Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead 
   the
   How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.
  
   I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  
   This
   is going to be a problem, maybe.
  
  
  
   On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
  
   exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
   list
   to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
   the
   list to hear what's new and learn from others.
  
  
  
   On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:
  
   On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
  
  
I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply 
   List
   instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 
   14.0.
  
   I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to 
   post a
   message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does make
   it
   easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the
   email
   address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This 
   will
   be
   easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to 
   use
   the
   new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.
  
myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending 
   private
   email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because I
   had
   trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
   ('hucksterism') in.
  
   the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. 
   not
   a
   big deal for me since I mostly lurk.
  
   F.
  
  
   --
   Felmon Davis
  
  
 
  --
  For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
  Problems?
  http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
  Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
  List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
  All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
  deleted
 
 
 
  --
 
antiso...@myopera.com
 
  --
  For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
  Problems? 
  http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
  Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
  List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
  All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
  deleted
 
 
 -- 
 For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems?
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
 deleted


-- 
  
  antiso...@myopera.com

-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Johnny Rosenberg]

2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
 Opera Webmail. I move around to much on computers to use a dedicated
 mail client. http://mail.opera.com

I actually have an Opera Mail address, but I didn't use it for years
now; maybe it's erased by now. So it could be a good idea to use Opera
Mail for email lists, then… How much space is there for each user
these days?


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ


 On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:39 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
 2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
  To me it seems fairly straightforward. I use Opera mail and it is great
  for mailing lists as it groups all replies to one thread in a
  conversation view. it also has a *Reply to list and a *Reply all
  functionality. It only seems logical to me to hit reply to list as
  that is what it is. anyway as the cliche goes I was jus sayin
 
  Regards
  Anthony

 When you say Opera mail, do you mean the Opera web mail or the Opera
 M2 email client?


 Kind regards

 Johnny Rosenberg
 ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

 
  On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:19 PM, anne-ology wrote:
 exactly.
 
 Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual
 list
   or
   (2) to change this from a list to
   private
  communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
  the ins  outs of LO.
 
 
 
  On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
  webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:
 
 
   I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the 
   thread
   by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
   Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button and
   remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply 
   List.
This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the 
   reply
   posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.
  
   Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead 
   the
   How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.
  
   I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  
   This
   is going to be a problem, maybe.
  
  
  
   On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
  
   exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing this
   list
   to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than allowing
   the
   list to hear what's new and learn from others.
  
  
  
   On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu 
   wrote:
  
   On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
  
  
I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply 
   List
   instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 
   14.0.
  
   I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to 
   post a
   message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does 
   make
   it
   easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy the
   email
   address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This 
   will
   be
   easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to 
   use
   the
   new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.
  
myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending 
   private
   email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only because 
   I
   had
   trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
   ('hucksterism') in.
  
   the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. 
   not
   a
   big deal for me since I mostly lurk.
  
   F.
  
  
   --
   Felmon Davis
  
  
 
  --
  For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
  Problems?
  http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
  Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
  List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
  All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
  deleted
 
 
 
  --
 
antiso...@myopera.com
 
  --
  For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
  Problems? 
  http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
  Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
  List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
  All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be 
  deleted
 

 --
 For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems?
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
 deleted


 --

   antiso...@myopera.com

 --
 For unsubscribe 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Anthony Easthope]

It has changed to become @myopera.com now. and as it is still in beta
phase you only have 1gb of space which is still heaps for emails! They
plan to increase it in the near future. (best thing with this is there
is no adverts to annoy me or nor is there googles stupid tracking
policy!)

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:50 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
 2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
  Opera Webmail. I move around to much on computers to use a dedicated
  mail client. http://mail.opera.com
 
 I actually have an Opera Mail address, but I didn't use it for years
 now; maybe it's erased by now. So it could be a good idea to use Opera
 Mail for email lists, then… How much space is there for each user
 these days?
 
 
 Kind regards
 
 Johnny Rosenberg
 ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ
 
 
  On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:39 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
  2012/8/13 Anthony Easthope antiso...@myopera.com:
   To me it seems fairly straightforward. I use Opera mail and it is great
   for mailing lists as it groups all replies to one thread in a
   conversation view. it also has a *Reply to list and a *Reply all
   functionality. It only seems logical to me to hit reply to list as
   that is what it is. anyway as the cliche goes I was jus sayin
  
   Regards
   Anthony
 
  When you say Opera mail, do you mean the Opera web mail or the Opera
  M2 email client?
 
 
  Kind regards
 
  Johnny Rosenberg
  ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ
 
  
   On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 09:19 PM, anne-ology wrote:
  exactly.
  
  Let's take a poll - (1) to return this list to being an actual
  list
or
(2) to change this from a list to
private
   communications between only select ones, depriving the group of learning
   the ins  outs of LO.
  
  
  
   On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
   webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:
  
  
I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the 
thread
by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next button being
Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the Reply button 
and
remember that the Reply All button has been replaced with Reply 
List.
 This may cause some problems, if too many of our list users get the 
reply
posting that were meant to go to the lists instead.
   
Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him 
instead the
How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.
   
I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  
This
is going to be a problem, maybe.
   
   
   
On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
   
exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing 
this
list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than 
allowing
the
list to hear what's new and learn from others.
   
   
   
On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu 
wrote:
   
On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
   
   
 I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply 
List
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 
14.0.
   
I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to 
post a
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does 
make
it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy 
the
email
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This 
will
be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget 
to use
the
new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.
   
 myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending 
private
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only 
because I
had
trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.
   
the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to 
me. not
a
big deal for me since I mostly lurk.
   
F.
   
   
--
Felmon Davis
   
   
  
   --
   For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: 
   users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
   Problems?
   http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
   Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
   List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
   All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
   deleted
  
  
  
   --
  
 antiso...@myopera.com
  
   --
   For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
   Problems? 
   http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
   Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
   List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
   All 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Girvin R. Herr]

Greetings,
I hope this gets to the right place.  I used Reply All in 
Thunderbird.  The header looks correct, but people are going to get 
duplicate messages.

Here is another side-effect of this change:
Florian,
Right!  Yesterday, your changes broke my email filter which puts 
libreoffice user group messages in a specific folder. But then I changed 
the filter from looking at Reply-To: to To: and thought that would 
suffice.  Now, this morning I got 7 libreoffice messages in my correct 
folder via my filter change, and 4 messages direct from members in my 
main inbox, which my filter did not catch.  Your change may make it easy 
for you, but it is a nightmare for me.  There is no way I can create 
filters for all users who use their address.


My vote is to return the list to the way it behaved before you made this 
change.  This is Anne-ology's Poll option #1.


I might also add, that the mis-addressed private message issue did 
happen to me many years ago, when I sent what I thought was a private 
joke message and discovered to my chagrin after sending it, that 
Netscape also added a newsgroup address to the header without my 
blessing.  You can imagine the impact of that.  It was not funny and I 
am still, after over 20 years, seeing that association come up now and 
then.  Since then, I verify where my email client is sending my messages 
before sending them.  Anyone who does not do so, is taking a chance and 
should not persecute others for their mistakes.

Girvin Herr


webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the 
thread by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next 
button being Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the 
Reply button and remember that the Reply All button has been 
replaced with Reply List.  This may cause some problems, if too many 
of our list users get the reply posting that were meant to go to the 
lists instead.


Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him instead 
the How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the Website list.


I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  
This is going to be a problem, maybe.



On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing 
this list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than 
allowing the

list to hear what's new and learn from others.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu wrote:

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply 
List
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 
14.0.


I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to 
post a
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does 
make it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy 
the email
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This 
will be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget to 
use the

new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.


myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only 
because I had

trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.

the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to me. 
not a

big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

F.


--
Felmon Davis







--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Steve Edmonds]

I prefer the list, or even better a forum. I won't be bothered editing 
the to/cc fields on a reply so it will be reply-all and every poster I 
reply to will get a private copy. I suspect in time this will become the 
norm.


Steve

On 2012-08-14 08:01, Girvin R. Herr wrote:

Greetings,
I hope this gets to the right place.  I used Reply All in 
Thunderbird.  The header looks correct, but people are going to get 
duplicate messages.

Here is another side-effect of this change:
Florian,
Right!  Yesterday, your changes broke my email filter which puts 
libreoffice user group messages in a specific folder. But then I 
changed the filter from looking at Reply-To: to To: and thought 
that would suffice.  Now, this morning I got 7 libreoffice messages in 
my correct folder via my filter change, and 4 messages direct from 
members in my main inbox, which my filter did not catch.  Your change 
may make it easy for you, but it is a nightmare for me.  There is no 
way I can create filters for all users who use their address.


My vote is to return the list to the way it behaved before you made 
this change.  This is Anne-ology's Poll option #1.


I might also add, that the mis-addressed private message issue did 
happen to me many years ago, when I sent what I thought was a private 
joke message and discovered to my chagrin after sending it, that 
Netscape also added a newsgroup address to the header without my 
blessing.  You can imagine the impact of that.  It was not funny and I 
am still, after over 20 years, seeing that association come up now and 
then.  Since then, I verify where my email client is sending my 
messages before sending them.  Anyone who does not do so, is taking a 
chance and should not persecute others for their mistakes.

Girvin Herr


webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


I just posted a reply to a thread to the last poster instead of the 
thread by mistake.  I am so use to pressing Reply and the next 
button being Reply All, that I now have to remember to skip the 
Reply button and remember that the Reply All button has been 
replaced with Reply List.  This may cause some problems, if too 
many of our list users get the reply posting that were meant to go to 
the lists instead.


Christian L. just sent me a notice that my posting went to him 
instead the How can I know which one is a spam? thread in the 
Website list.


I nearly sent this posting to anne-ology instead of the User list.  
This is going to be a problem, maybe.



On 08/13/2012 01:06 PM, anne-ology wrote:
exactly, therefore to change the default, you're changing 
this list
to where folks will now be corresponding privately rather than 
allowing the

list to hear what's new and learn from others.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Felmon Davis dav...@union.edu 
wrote:


On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:


I did not know that you could make the email client state Reply 
List
instead of the text on the Reply All button.  I run Thunderbird 
14.0.


I have to get use to using the Reply List instead of Reply to 
post a
message to the thread.  It could be confusing to people, but does 
make it
easier to send a message to the poster, off list.  I use to copy 
the email
address of the poster and then paste it to my To: section.  This 
will be
easier to do that, but hopefully not too many people will forget 
to use the

new Reply List button instead of the Reply button.


myself, I am not so clear why people are interested in sending private
email to people on a public list. I did it yesterday but only 
because I had

trouble posting to the list and was overeager to get my word
('hucksterism') in.

the default mode on a list of replying to the list made sense to 
me. not a

big deal for me since I mostly lurk.

F.


--
Felmon Davis










--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

On 08/13/2012 03:37 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:

I'm subscribed to quite a few lists by now, and some of them has had
this ”new” behaviour for quite some time. I was kind of hoping THEY
would change…


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ



It will just take some time to get use to NOT using the Reply button 
for replying to these threads.  Before the change was made, I never saw 
a Reply List as the text for the button that normally is for Reply All.


I have been using Reply since Spring of last year, so it will take 
time for me to get use to doing it a different way.


Things change all the time.  In the past year, Thunderbird went from 
3.x.x to 14.x.x on the Ubuntu 10.04 repository.  Sometimes Change is 
good, while other times it is not.  I do not like change for change 
sake like MS is doing with Win8 so your desktop looks like your 
tablet.  Not for me that.


But with this major change on how to reply to the list emails, or 
which button to use, people will need to be aware that there might be a 
lot of mistakes sending the reply to the email to the last poster and 
not to the list itself.  I already did that one and nearly twice today.  
So it most likely will happen with others as well.  I use Thunderbird, 
so I do not know what it looks like with Outlook or other mail clients, 
or even web-browser based emails like some of the accounts for GMail, 
Hotmail, YahooMail, NetZeorMail, etc., etc., will show in their web 
page[s] for accessing your emails instead via an email-client.




--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Jay Lozier]

On 08/13/2012 06:53 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

On 08/13/2012 03:37 PM, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:

I'm subscribed to quite a few lists by now, and some of them has had
this ”new” behaviour for quite some time. I was kind of hoping THEY
would change…


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ



It will just take some time to get use to NOT using the Reply button 
for replying to these threads. Before the change was made, I never saw 
a Reply List as the text for the button that normally is for Reply 
All.


I have been using Reply since Spring of last year, so it will take 
time for me to get use to doing it a different way.


Things change all the time. In the past year, Thunderbird went from 
3.x.x to 14.x.x on the Ubuntu 10.04 repository. Sometimes Change is 
good, while other times it is not. I do not like change for change 
sake like MS is doing with Win8 so your desktop looks like your 
tablet. Not for me that.


But with this major change on how to reply to the list emails, or 
which button to use, people will need to be aware that there might be 
a lot of mistakes sending the reply to the email to the last poster 
and not to the list itself. I already did that one and nearly twice 
today. So it most likely will happen with others as well. I use 
Thunderbird, so I do not know what it looks like with Outlook or other 
mail clients, or even web-browser based emails like some of the 
accounts for GMail, Hotmail, YahooMail, NetZeorMail, etc., etc., will 
show in their web page[s] for accessing your emails instead via an 
email-client.





I see the Reply List next to Reply in Thunderbird.

--
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Mark LaPierre]

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.

In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...

Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
direct replies directly to the list.

This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
mutually exclusive to each other.

In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
again, I beg for your understanding.

Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
somehow sitting between two chairs here.

Florian



Hey All,

Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an 
email tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least 
one Linux installation.


For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on 
libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your email 
to the right folder.


--
_
   °v°
  /(_)\
   ^ ^  Mark LaPierre
Registerd Linux user No #267004
www.counter.li.org


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com wrote:

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

 Hello,

 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
 (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

 So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
 words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
 automatically sent directly to the list.

 In the past, this lead to two major problems:

 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
 where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
 where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
 worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
 hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

 2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
 with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
 of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
 led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
 needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
 with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
 one way to find out...

 Therefore, I have applied a change:

 Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
 either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
 - preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
 direct replies directly to the list.

 This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
 setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
 here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
 http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

 I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
 outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
 so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
 understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
 with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
 are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
 two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
 mutually exclusive to each other.

 In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
 again, I beg for your understanding.

 Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
 community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
 is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
 not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
 immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

 Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
 somehow sitting between two chairs here.

 Florian


 Hey All,

 Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an email
 tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux
 installation.

 For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on
 libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your email to
 the right folder.

 --
 _
°v°
   /(_)\
^ ^  Mark LaPierre
 Registerd Linux user No #267004
 www.counter.li.org
 


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[David B Teague sr]

On 8/13/2012 7:25 PM, Jay Lozier wrote:




I see the Reply List next to Reply in Thunderbird.

--
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


That reply list button is apparently a function of this list. It isn't 
on any other list that I subscribe to.

Many thanks to the list managers who took care of this problem.

David Teague

-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in 
practice there is.



--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Steve Edmonds]

I primarily use SUSE but also osx and win. I support Anne.
If (as an example only) 80% of LO potential is win based and this is the 
target for growth then to be non-exclusive and encourage advancement in 
the win platform the support list should cater for the most common win. 
mail applications. Browser (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) or outlook.


If we are trying to stifle growth and keep LO in the linux club, then 
make it easy for linux users and less convenient for others.


Steve

On 2012-08-14 11:55, anne-ology wrote:

you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com wrote:

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.

In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...

Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
direct replies directly to the list.

This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
mutually exclusive to each other.

In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
again, I beg for your understanding.

Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
somehow sitting between two chairs here.

Florian



Hey All,

Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an email
tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux
installation.

For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on
libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your email to
the right folder.

--
 _
°v°
   /(_)\
^ ^  Mark LaPierre
Registerd Linux user No #267004
www.counter.li.org





--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to thank everyone for your feedback, and assure you that I 
read every bit, even if I don't manage to reply to every message in detail.


My offer stands valid, let's wait for some more feedback and some more 
days, and then make a final decision.


Florian

--
Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender)
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

  Steve, you're so right; thank you for some statistics.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 7:03 PM, Steve Edmonds
steve.edmo...@ptglobal.comwrote:

I primarily use SUSE but also osx and win. I support Anne.
 If (as an example only) 80% of LO potential is win based and this is the
 target for growth then to be non-exclusive and encourage advancement in the
 win platform the support list should cater for the most common win. mail
 applications. Browser (gmail, hotmail, yahoo, etc.) or outlook.

 If we are trying to stifle growth and keep LO in the linux club, then make
 it easy for linux users and less convenient for others.

 Steve


 On 2012-08-14 11:55, anne-ology wrote:

 you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
 machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



 On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com
 wrote:


  Hey All,

 Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an email
 tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux
 installation.

 For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on
 libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your email
 to
 the right folder.

 --
  _
 °v°
/(_)\
 ^ ^  Mark LaPierre
 Registerd Linux user No #267004
 www.counter.li.org
 



-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

On 08/13/2012 07:36 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.

In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...

Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
direct replies directly to the list.

This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
mutually exclusive to each other.

In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
again, I beg for your understanding.

Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
somehow sitting between two chairs here.

Florian



Hey All,

Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an 
email tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least 
one Linux installation.


For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on 
libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your 
email to the right folder.




I filter on email address.

LibreO - Website folder gets webs...@global.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Projects Global folder gets proje...@global.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Marketing US folder gets market...@us.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Marketing Global folder gets market...@global.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Users Global folder gets users@global.libreoffice.org

So each list goes into its own folder in Thunderbird.

I also have different folders for newsletters, friends, family, 
organizations I deal with, domain related, purchases via Amazon and 
PayPal accounts, etc., etc..  All of these folders are based on email 
address filtering and not subject line filtering.  So, once I get an 
email from a proper source, then I get to decide which folder that 
email address will go into.  Subject lines and other filtering methods 
do not work as well for me.  Every email that gets left in the general 
inbox, that I am sharing with 12 email addresses I check with 
Thunderbird, could be potential SPAM or missed valid emails from known 
people.  Some of the emails I receive that come from addresses that are 
automatically forwarded to my TRASH folder without me ever seeing any 
emails from those known SPAM sites/addresses.  95% of the all the 
daily emails I receive will go into a folder instead of the default 
inbox.  Most of those that come into that inbox are from people or 
companies I have not received from before.  So, I get only a few 
unknown emails to go through myself.  Works for me.





--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   Another method is to have multiple e-addresses -
   in this way, the e-address will remain valid even if the ISP
changes  ;-)
   each e-address is known to certain ones; I log-in to the
e-address I wish to peruse then go on to the next one, etc.
  [and I'll filter within each as well]

   BTW - my categories vary - from computer-helping to
computer-continuing-education to writing, ... to political and news to
humour ... ... ... then there's genealogical and historical to UTube
postings  ;-)



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 7:33 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
webmas...@krackedpress.com wrote:


 I filter on email address.

 LibreO - Website folder gets 
 website@global.libreoffice.**orgwebs...@global.libreoffice.org
 
 LibreO - Projects Global folder gets 
 projects@global.libreoffice.**orgproje...@global.libreoffice.org
 
 LibreO - Marketing US folder gets market...@us.libreoffice.org
 LibreO - Marketing Global folder gets 
 marketing@global.libreoffice.**orgmarket...@global.libreoffice.org
 
 LibreO - Users Global folder gets users@global.libreoffice.org

 So each list goes into its own folder in Thunderbird.

 I also have different folders for newsletters, friends, family,
 organizations I deal with, domain related, purchases via Amazon and PayPal
 accounts, etc., etc..  All of these folders are based on email address
 filtering and not subject line filtering.  So, once I get an email from a
 proper source, then I get to decide which folder that email address will
 go into.  Subject lines and other filtering methods do not work as well for
 me.  Every email that gets left in the general inbox, that I am sharing
 with 12 email addresses I check with Thunderbird, could be potential SPAM
 or missed valid emails from known people.  Some of the emails I receive
 that come from addresses that are automatically forwarded to my TRASH
 folder without me ever seeing any emails from those known SPAM
 sites/addresses.  95% of the all the daily emails I receive will go into a
 folder instead of the default inbox.  Most of those that come into that
 inbox are from people or companies I have not received from before.  So, I
 get only a few unknown emails to go through myself.  Works for me.



-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Girvin R. Herr]

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

On 08/13/2012 07:36 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.

In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that 
working

with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...

Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. 
You
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail 
program, or

- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
direct replies directly to the list.

This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the 
wheel

here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for 
your
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are 
unusable

with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
mutually exclusive to each other.

In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
again, I beg for your understanding.

Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of 
you

is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
somehow sitting between two chairs here.

Florian



Hey All,

Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an 
email tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least 
one Linux installation.


For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on 
libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your 
email to the right folder.




I filter on email address.

LibreO - Website folder gets webs...@global.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Projects Global folder gets proje...@global.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Marketing US folder gets market...@us.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Marketing Global folder gets market...@global.libreoffice.org
LibreO - Users Global folder gets users@global.libreoffice.org

So each list goes into its own folder in Thunderbird.

I also have different folders for newsletters, friends, family, 
organizations I deal with, domain related, purchases via Amazon and 
PayPal accounts, etc., etc..  All of these folders are based on email 
address filtering and not subject line filtering.  So, once I get an 
email from a proper source, then I get to decide which folder that 
email address will go into.  Subject lines and other filtering methods 
do not work as well for me.  Every email that gets left in the general 
inbox, that I am sharing with 12 email addresses I check with 
Thunderbird, could be potential SPAM or missed valid emails from known 
people.  Some of the emails I receive that come from addresses that 
are automatically forwarded to my TRASH folder without me ever seeing 
any emails from those known SPAM sites/addresses.  95% of the all 
the daily emails I receive will go into a folder instead of the 
default inbox.  Most of those that come into that inbox are from 
people or companies I have not received from before.  So, I get only a 
few unknown emails to go through myself.  Works for me.





Webmaster...,
That's sort of what I do.  I think I discovered the secret.  In this 
group now, it appears when someone Reply-Alls to a posting, The To: 
comes from the From: posting header entry, which is the poster's 
address and not practical to 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Anthony Easthope]

It is fine the way it is as of now, in fact I quite like the change as
it means I no longer get broken threads in my inbox which leads to it
being cluttered. so my vote lies with the change, I use to use a Linux
machine but found it beyond my comprehension so migrated back to
windows. Florian you made a good choice and I am glad that you have made
it and it must be noted that no matter what one can do you will never be
able to please everybody as that is one of the raw elements of human
nature because as I am sure your all aware humans do no not generally
like a lot of change of difference and that is one of the major root
causes of all disputes!

Regards
Anthony
:)

On Tue, 14 Aug 2012, at 03:07 AM, Girvin R. Herr wrote:
 
 
 webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
  On 08/13/2012 07:36 PM, Mark LaPierre wrote:
  On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
  Hello,
 
  this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
  (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).
 
  So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
  words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
  automatically sent directly to the list.
 
  In the past, this lead to two major problems:
 
  1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
  where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
  where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
  worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
  hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.
 
  2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that 
  working
  with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
  of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
  led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
  needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
  with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
  one way to find out...
 
  Therefore, I have applied a change:
 
  Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. 
  You
  either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail 
  program, or
  - preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
  direct replies directly to the list.
 
  This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
  setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the 
  wheel
  here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
  http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
 
  I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
  outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
  so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for 
  your
  understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are 
  unusable
  with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
  are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
  two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
  mutually exclusive to each other.
 
  In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
  again, I beg for your understanding.
 
  Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
  community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of 
  you
  is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
  not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
  immediately switch back to the old behaviour.
 
  Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
  somehow sitting between two chairs here.
 
  Florian
 
 
  Hey All,
 
  Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an 
  email tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least 
  one Linux installation.
 
  For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on 
  libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your 
  email to the right folder.
 
 
  I filter on email address.
 
  LibreO - Website folder gets webs...@global.libreoffice.org
  LibreO - Projects Global folder gets proje...@global.libreoffice.org
  LibreO - Marketing US folder gets market...@us.libreoffice.org
  LibreO - Marketing Global folder gets market...@global.libreoffice.org
  LibreO - Users Global folder gets users@global.libreoffice.org
 
  So each list goes into its own folder in Thunderbird.
 
  I also have different folders for newsletters, friends, family, 
  organizations I deal with, domain related, purchases via Amazon and 
  PayPal accounts, etc., etc..  All of these folders are based on email 
  address filtering and not subject line filtering.  So, once I get an 
  email from a proper source, then I get to decide which folder that 
  email address will go into.  Subject lines and other filtering methods 
  do not work as well for me.  Every 

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Felmon Davis]

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, Girvin R. Herr wrote:

I think I discovered the secret.  In this group now, it appears when 
someone Reply-Alls to a posting, The To: comes from the From: 
posting header entry, which is the poster's address and not 
practical to filter on in this case.  However, the group address 
(users@global.libreoffice.org) is inserted into the Cc: field. 
So, tried using users@global.libreoffice.org in both the Cc: 
filter field as well as the To: filter field.  I don't know what 
side-effects this will generate in the long run, but it seems to be 
working for me so far.  I never filter on Subject: unless there is 
some constant in there to grab onto and it is the only option. 
Another poster above suggested filtering on the 
[libreoffice-users] in the subject field.  That should work, but I 
don't trust it to stay constant.  However, that is an option. Girvin 
Herr


this is the way it works in 'alpine' so this post will be sent under 
To: to you and webmaster-kracked_p_p while Reply: goes to the 
list.


to me it feels like an inversion of the 'natural order' since I don't 
want to post to either of you _specifically_.


I am not sure the consequences are dire at least in the case of 
'alpine'; for instance, I believe the list management software 
prevents duplication of posts.


but I guess I still don't get the point of this change. so some people 
do want to address individuals and forget they have aimed their email 
at the list? how does this change help those forgetful sorts?


F.

--
Felmon Davis

Things present are judged by things past.  -- Sanford

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Andrew Douglas Pitonyak]

I would bet that you have used a Linux based machine. and you just 
never knew it. Seems like Linux is everywhere. Seems that I own a DVR, a 
fancy Panasonic DVD player, and a phone that all seem to be based on 
Linux. It is everywhere, we just don't know it! :-)


On 08/13/2012 07:55 PM, anne-ology wrote:

you're mis-informed; I, for one, have never used a Linus-based
machine; and I bet I'm not the only one.



On Mon, Aug 13, 2012 at 6:36 PM, Mark LaPierre marklap...@aol.com wrote:

On 08/12/2012 12:31 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
automatically sent directly to the list.

In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just
one way to find out...

Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or
- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
direct replies directly to the list.

This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it,
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are
mutually exclusive to each other.

In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
again, I beg for your understanding.

Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.

Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
somehow sitting between two chairs here.

Florian



Hey All,

Not trying to be rude.  All of you should be smart enough to run an email
tool.  After all you're all Linux users who administer at least one Linux
installation.

For those of you having trouble with email filters try filtering on
libreoffice-users in the subject line.  That should get all your email to
the right folder.

--
 _
°v°
   /(_)\
^ ^  Mark LaPierre
Registerd Linux user No #267004
www.counter.li.org




--
Andrew Pitonyak
My Macro Document: http://www.pitonyak.org/AndrewMacro.odt
Info:  http://www.pitonyak.org/oo.php


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

[libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Florian Effenberger]

Hello,

this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed 
(so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).


So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other 
words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were 
automatically sent directly to the list.


In the past, this lead to two major problems:

1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list, 
where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case 
where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of 
worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people 
hit reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.


2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working 
with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because 
of reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also 
led to the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who 
needed to spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden 
with others. While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just 
one way to find out...


Therefore, I have applied a change:

Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You 
either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or 
- preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will 
direct replies directly to the list.


This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default 
setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel 
here. Those seeking for details should have a look at 
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html


I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the 
outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it, 
so I am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your 
understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable 
with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists 
are unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those 
two, even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are 
mutually exclusive to each other.


In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and 
again, I beg for your understanding.


Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the 
community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you 
is to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or 
not. Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will 
immediately switch back to the old behaviour.


Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm 
somehow sitting between two chairs here.


Florian

--
Florian Effenberger, Chairman of the Board (Vorstandsvorsitzender)
Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
The Document Foundation, Zimmerstr. 69, 10117 Berlin, Germany
Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint

--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[anne-ology]

   Just testing;
  and find this may be the silliest way of setting a list I've seen.

   If someone cannot take the minute time to check the 'to' 'cc' 'bcc'
then the 'subject' line, then are they smart enough to operate a machine
;-)
  or to handle any secure documents  ;-)

   Just curiously wondering - by the way, I assume you, Florian, will
receive 2 copies of this;
  when you tire of receiving duplicate messages, maybe you'll
return this list to resemble other lists  ;-)



On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Florian Effenberger 
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

Hello,

 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have changed
 (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).

 So far, e-mails had set a reply-to the mailing list address. In other
 words, with any e-mail client, replies to e-mails on the list were
 automatically sent directly to the list.

 In the past, this lead to two major problems:

 1. Several times, people have sent direct replies to the public list,
 where deleting them is nearly impossible. I remember at least one case
 where confidential information has been sent out that caused lots of
 worries for the sender and his employer. This happened because people hit
 reply and thought it would reply to the sender only.

 2. I have heard complaints in the past from people, stating that working
 with the non-developer lists of LibreOffice is a pain for them, because of
 reply-to mangling, resulting in a lack of communication. This also led to
 the fact that numerous tasks were done by the same people, who needed to
 spend more and more time, instead of sharing the work burden with others.
 While I do not fully believe this argument, there's just one way to find
 out...

 Therefore, I have applied a change:

 Replies to e-mails from the list now only go to the original sender. You
 either need to use the reply to all feature of your e-mail program, or -
 preferably - the reply to list/reply to group feature, which will
 direct replies directly to the list.

 This is common practice on most mailing lists, and even the default
 setting for our mailing list software, so we did not re-invent the wheel
 here. Those seeking for details should have a look at
 http://www.unicom.com/pw/**reply-to-harmful.htmlhttp://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

 I know we had numerous discussions on this topic in the past, but the
 outcome was that roughly 50% were for this change, and 50% refused it, so I
 am really sitting between two chairs here, for which I beg for your
 understanding. On the one hand, those complaining the lists are unusable
 with reply-to mangling, on the other hand, those complaining the lists are
 unusable without reply-to mangling. Unfortunately, combining those two,
 even on a per-recipient basis, is not possible, so they are mutually
 exclusive to each other.

 In order to find out the real impact, I simply changed the setting, and
 again, I beg for your understanding.

 Do not worry: The mailing lists are for the community, so it's the
 community deciding how they should work. What I'd like to ask all of you is
 to try out for a few days if that change is good for each list or not.
 Should we find out it is more harmful than it helps, I will immediately
 switch back to the old behaviour.

 Sorry for this short notice, and I beg for your understanding that I'm
 somehow sitting between two chairs here.

 Florian


-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Brian Barker]

At 18:31 12/08/2012 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have 
changed (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).


Well done!

This new way fails safe.  A message intended to be public may get 
sent privately by mistake - a minor inconvenience that can easily be 
remedied by sending the message again correctly.  The old method 
risked messages intended to be private being sent publicly - a 
unfortunate consequence that simply cannot be undone.


Interestingly, there's an argument that list processors have no 
business inserting a Reply-To header, which is instead the sole 
domain of the message's author.  RFC 2822 appears to require this: 
'When the Reply-To: field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es) 
to which the *author* of the message suggests that replies be sent 
(my emphasis).  The author of a message, of course, is not the list.


Brian Barker


--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted

Re: [libreoffice-users] Reply settings on this list have changed

[Anthony Easthope]

I quite like this idea of change as it now seems that less mistakes
should be made!

On Mon, 13 Aug 2012, at 01:33 AM, Brian Barker wrote:
 At 18:31 12/08/2012 +0200, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 this is to inform you that the reply settings on this list have 
 changed (so-called Reply to mangling has been disabled).
 
 Well done!
 
 This new way fails safe.  A message intended to be public may get 
 sent privately by mistake - a minor inconvenience that can easily be 
 remedied by sending the message again correctly.  The old method 
 risked messages intended to be private being sent publicly - a 
 unfortunate consequence that simply cannot be undone.
 
 Interestingly, there's an argument that list processors have no 
 business inserting a Reply-To header, which is instead the sole 
 domain of the message's author.  RFC 2822 appears to require this: 
 'When the Reply-To: field is present, it indicates the mailbox(es) 
 to which the *author* of the message suggests that replies be sent 
 (my emphasis).  The author of a message, of course, is not the list.
 
 Brian Barker
 
 
 -- 
 For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
 Problems?
 http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
 Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
 List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
 All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
 deleted
 


-- 
  
  antiso...@myopera.com

-- 
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org
Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted