OT - Re: [libreoffice-users] Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

[Tanstaafl]

On 2/27/2016 7:06 AM, Andrea Venturoli  wrote:
> Reliability aside (I really don't trust OL and I've got lot of backing 
> experience to support that), I've yet to find a feature in OL that TB is 
> missing (apart integration with Exchange).

Actually, Outlook was designed first and foremost as an Exchange Client.

In that environment, it has much less issues - but it still is prone to
weirdness.

But as a standalone client is where it falls down.

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OT - Re: [libreoffice-users] Thunderbird potential as the official/default email-client for LO? Re: [board-discuss] BoD decision from 2015-10-05

[Tanstaafl]

On 2/26/2016 8:49 PM, toki  wrote:
> From my POV, for TDF to write a new email client would be a waste of
> effort.

+1

> A couple of issues with TDF adoption of Thunderbird are:
> 
> * What will TDF policy on breaking extensions be?
> I have no idea if it was TB, or the extensions that were upgraded on
> Monday, but the three extensions I rely on the most are now completely
> broken.

It happens... Addon devs have plenty of advance warning when something
changes that will break something, but it is on them to be proactive.

Apparently the devs for your critical Addons aren't. Is that TB's fault?

> Firefox has a habit of breaking extensions at every upgrade.

Well, that is a major exaggeration, if not FUD, at present. It hasn't
really been a problem for a long time, although it was a big problem for
a while after they switched to the fast release schedule. But now that
they started down this road of requiring all Addons to be signed by
them, with no way, after version 45, to disable this stupidity - well
this is another problem. I'll probably be forced to start running and
unbranded version (not 'Firefox') that will still have the pref to
disable it. The ESR will also keep the pref, but I don't want the ESR.

> (I'm ignoring the issue that most of the useful Firefox extensions
> will be abandoned by the developer, because the road map eliminates
> the API that utilized to provide the functionality that they offer).

Maybe, maybe not. There is some concern with the deprecation of
XPCOM/XUL in favor of WebExtensions, yes, but they have committed to
providing most capabilities through the new API:

https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/08/21/the-future-of-developing-firefox-add-ons/

Main point to take away - don't shoot the messenger until you know for
certain they deserve to be shot.

> For a corporate environment, breaking extensions when the software
> updates is an absolute no-no. Especially when the extensions are
> mission-critical.

1. Such environments should be using the ESR version, which virtually
eliminates such breakage, and

2. Such environments should be managing updates (ie, testing to make
sure mission critical Addons aren't broken by an update).

If you are *not* doing both, that is on *you*, not Mozilla.

> For the consumer environment, breaking extensions is highly undesirable,
> and extremely annoying behaviour;

So don't use Addons that are prone to breakage.

> * What is the most appropriate long term goal for Thunderbird:
> -» To be a quasi-Outlook clone (^2);

No, to be *better*. There are some UI features in Outlook I rather like,
and I have made some feature requests for Thunderbird to provide
similar, but better, features - 3 of these are:

Mail/message listing/thread pane needs more organization in 3 vertical
pane view (like Outlook, Lotus Notes et al.)
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=213945

Allow customization of choices in View > Folders (Folder Views)
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1159713

Allow 'Pinning' (and re-ordering) one or more 'Folder Views' to the top
of the Folder Pane
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1163555

> -» To be a quasi-Pidgeon clone *^3);

The chat client? I kind of like the idea of chat integration, but I'd
muvh prefer that TB fix the major issues first (UI rewrite to JS,
Address Book rewrite to eliminate Mork DB, issues with replies/forwards
with inline attachments, IMAP performance improvements, etc

> ^2: I don't use Outlook, so I have no idea what features Outlook
> currently offers --- other than reliable retrieving email under all
> conditions --- that Thunderbird does not currently support;

Like I said earlier, my experience, and that of many dozens of others
over many years, is the exact opposite, but that could be due to our use
of IMAP vs your use (misuse if you are using 'leave messages on server'
mis-feature) of ancient POP.

Charles

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