Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[George Bosilca]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 12:45 AM, Fab Tillier via users <
users@lists.open-mpi.org> wrote:

> Hi Llelan,
>
> Llelan D. wrote on Wed, 27 Sep 2017 at 19:06:23
>
> > On 09/27/2017 3:04 PM, Jeffrey A Cummings wrote:
> >> The MS-MPI developers disagree with your statement below and claim to
> >> be actively working on MPI-3.0 compliance, with an expected new version
> >> release about every six month.
> >
> > They can disagree as much as they want. I've spent over 30 years doing
> > contracts for and associated with MS and am very familiar with their
> policy of
> > what they claim vs. what they do. Check out:
> >http://mpi-forum.org/slides/2014/11/mpi3-impl-status-Nov14.pdf
> > for where msmpi was in 2014 when they were claiming
> > the same things. The latest version of msmpi (v8.1.12438) still only
> > provides minimal support for MPI specification v2.0.
>
> Did you mean MPI 3.0 here?  We've had comprehensive support for MPI 2.0
> for quite some time, and as of version 8.1 believe we should be MPI 2.2
> compliant as well as supporting a fair bit of MPI 3.0.  We've been steadily
> adding MPI 3 support each release, and tend to prioritize development based
> on user feedback, so if there are APIs you need, please let us know - you
> can contact the MS-MPI team directly at mailto:ask...@microsoft.com.
>
> You should be able to see the evolution through the MPICH BOF slides from
> past super computing conferences.  The 2015 slides are here:
> https://www.mpich.org/files/2015/11/SC15-MPICH-BoF.pdf, but unfortunately
> the 2016 slides link is broken.
>

The link to the slides presenting the level of support of the MPI
specification by different MPI implementations can be found on the main
page of the MPI Forum at http://mpi-forum.org/ (look for Implementation
Status).

  George.


>
> > Understand, I'm no MS basher; Windows is still the most likely
> development
> > environment in the industry and must be respected. This is why I always
> > argue that it is a mistake not to distribute native MS versions of
> packages no
> > matter what level of popular support there is.
> > Allowing MS to restrict the level of support on the Windows platform to
> only
> > the avenues they wish developers to use is a huge restriction for the
> > evolution of a specification and a terrible problem for those of us who
> must
> > work cross-platform.
>
> I think you misconstrue our objectives here.  If there are APIs you would
> like us to support, let us know so that we can prioritize their
> implementation.  We also don't prevent or discourage alternative
> implementations, and while we would be more than happy to see Windows
> native Open MPI releases, we understand and respect the Open MPI
> developers' decision to invest their time elsewhere.
>
> Cheers,
> -Fab
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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Fab Tillier via users]

Hi Llelan,

Llelan D. wrote on Wed, 27 Sep 2017 at 19:06:23

> On 09/27/2017 3:04 PM, Jeffrey A Cummings wrote:
>> The MS-MPI developers disagree with your statement below and claim to
>> be actively working on MPI-3.0 compliance, with an expected new version
>> release about every six month.
>
> They can disagree as much as they want. I've spent over 30 years doing
> contracts for and associated with MS and am very familiar with their policy of
> what they claim vs. what they do. Check out:
>    http://mpi-forum.org/slides/2014/11/mpi3-impl-status-Nov14.pdf
> for where msmpi was in 2014 when they were claiming
> the same things. The latest version of msmpi (v8.1.12438) still only
> provides minimal support for MPI specification v2.0.

Did you mean MPI 3.0 here?  We've had comprehensive support for MPI 2.0 for 
quite some time, and as of version 8.1 believe we should be MPI 2.2 compliant 
as well as supporting a fair bit of MPI 3.0.  We've been steadily adding MPI 3 
support each release, and tend to prioritize development based on user 
feedback, so if there are APIs you need, please let us know - you can contact 
the MS-MPI team directly at mailto:ask...@microsoft.com.

You should be able to see the evolution through the MPICH BOF slides from past 
super computing conferences.  The 2015 slides are here: 
https://www.mpich.org/files/2015/11/SC15-MPICH-BoF.pdf, but unfortunately the 
2016 slides link is broken.

> Understand, I'm no MS basher; Windows is still the most likely development
> environment in the industry and must be respected. This is why I always
> argue that it is a mistake not to distribute native MS versions of packages no
> matter what level of popular support there is.
> Allowing MS to restrict the level of support on the Windows platform to only
> the avenues they wish developers to use is a huge restriction for the
> evolution of a specification and a terrible problem for those of us who must
> work cross-platform.

I think you misconstrue our objectives here.  If there are APIs you would like 
us to support, let us know so that we can prioritize their implementation.  We 
also don't prevent or discourage alternative implementations, and while we 
would be more than happy to see Windows native Open MPI releases, we understand 
and respect the Open MPI developers' decision to invest their time elsewhere.

Cheers,
-Fab
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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Llelan D.]

On 09/27/2017 3:04 PM, Jeffrey A Cummings wrote:

The MS-MPI developers disagree with your statement below and claim to be 
actively working on MPI-3.0 compliance, with an expected new version release 
about every six month.
They can disagree as much as they want. I've spent over 30 years doing 
contracts for and associated with MS and am very familiar with their 
policy of what they claim vs. what they do. Check out:

  http://mpi-forum.org/slides/2014/11/mpi3-impl-status-Nov14.pdf
for where msmpi was in 2014 when they were claiming the same things. The 
latest version of msmpi (v8.1.12438) still only provides minimal support 
for MPI specification v2.0.


Understand, I'm no MS basher; Windows is still the most likely 
development environment in the industry and must be respected. This is 
why I always argue that it is a mistake not to distribute native MS 
versions of packages no matter what level of popular support there is. 
Allowing MS to restrict the level of support on the Windows platform to 
only the avenues they wish developers to use is a huge restriction for 
the evolution of a specification and a terrible problem for those of us 
who must work cross-platform.


However, my original point was about the Cygwin version of openmpi and 
not any native Windows version. Looking forward to that. :)


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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Jeffrey A Cummings]

The MS-MPI developers disagree with your statement below and claim to be 
actively working on MPI-3.0 compliance, with an expected new version release 
about every six month.

- Jeff

Jeffrey A. Cummings
Engineering Specialist
Performance Modeling and Analysis Department
Systems Analysis and Simulation Subdivision
Systems Engineering Division
Engineering and Technology Group
The Aerospace Corporation
571-304-7548
jeffrey.a.cummi...@aero.org

-Original Message-
From: users [mailto:users-boun...@lists.open-mpi.org] On Behalf Of Llelan D.
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:22 PM
To: users@lists.open-mpi.org
Subject: Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

On 09/27/2017 4:36 AM, Marco Atzeri wrote:
> After I finish on 2.1.2 I will look on 3.0.
Thank you for your response. I am looking forward to a Cygwin release.
If you could send me some guidelines as to the preferred manner of doing this 
as was done with previous versions, I could work on it myself. The
1.10 Cygport version compiles and packages just fine so I'll look at what was 
done to that for now and try to translate it to v3.0.

@Jeffrey A Cummings: OpenMPI has abandoned *NATIVE* windows support (*.lib for 
compilers like MSVC, etc.) and not Cygwin, though a v2.* release has been slow. 
The msmpi package has never fully supported the MPI specification (or even come 
close) and has been long (and silently) abandoned by MS as people have 
preferred other fully compliant implementations.

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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Jeff Squyres (jsquyres)]

On Sep 27, 2017, at 3:21 PM, Llelan D.  wrote:
> 
>> After I finish on 2.1.2 I will look on 3.0.
> Thank you for your response. I am looking forward to a Cygwin release.
> If you could send me some guidelines as to the preferred manner of doing this 
> as was done with previous versions, I could work on it myself. The 1.10 
> Cygport version compiles and packages just fine so I'll look at what was done 
> to that for now and try to translate it to v3.0.

Once you guys have some patches, let's have a look at them here upstream and 
see if we can slurp them in so that you don't have to carry them forward.

What would be *awesome* is if -- assuming we get those patches slurped in 
upstream -- someone could provide some testing resources:

1. For each Github pull request
2. Nightly MTT testing (doesn't have to be too extensive)

(I'm happy to explain the details of both of these if anyone has some resources 
to volunteer -- we should probably move over to the devel list, though)

Specifically: the biggest problem we have is that no one in the Open MPI 
developer community currently develops and test on Cygwin.  Hence, if/when we 
break stuff, we don't know it until Marco has the cycles to test and then 
develop aftermarket patches.  Meaning: if we get patches to make Open MPI 
compile/work on Cygwin, those will only last until we (accidentally) break it 
again.  But if we have continual testing and integration on Cygwin (with all of 
our other CI infrastructure), that *significantly* decreases the probability of 
us breaking Cygwin again.  Or, at least, if/when we break it, we'll *know* it, 
and therefore we can *fix* it.

Make sense?

-- 
Jeff Squyres
jsquy...@cisco.com

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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Llelan D.]

On 09/27/2017 4:36 AM, Marco Atzeri wrote:

After I finish on 2.1.2 I will look on 3.0.

Thank you for your response. I am looking forward to a Cygwin release.
If you could send me some guidelines as to the preferred manner of doing 
this as was done with previous versions, I could work on it myself. The 
1.10 Cygport version compiles and packages just fine so I'll look at 
what was done to that for now and try to translate it to v3.0.


@Jeffrey A Cummings: OpenMPI has abandoned *NATIVE* windows support 
(*.lib for compilers like MSVC, etc.) and not Cygwin, though a v2.* 
release has been slow. The msmpi package has never fully supported the 
MPI specification (or even come close) and has been long (and silently) 
abandoned by MS as people have preferred other fully compliant 
implementations.


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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Jeffrey A Cummings]

The OpenMPI developers stopped supporting Windows a long time (several major 
versions) ago.

Microsoft has a free version of MPI for Windows available for download.  
There's no guarantee it will be free forever but it is free for now.  I've been 
using it for about a year and it works for me.  My usage of MPI is pretty 
vanilla so there may be features missing in Microsoft's implementation.  It 
might be worth your while to at least look at it.

– Jeff

-Original Message-
From: users [mailto:users-boun...@lists.open-mpi.org] On Behalf Of Llelan D.
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:31 AM
To: users@lists.open-mpi.org
Subject: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

Can OpenMPI v3.0 be compiled for Cygwin64 on Windows 10?

Using:

./congifure --prefix=/usr/local
  [blah, blah... Apparently successful (At least it doesn't say there's an 
error)] make -j 12 all

I'm getting a slew of compiler errors about redefinitions between:

/usr/include/w32api/psdk_inc/_ip_types.h
 or /usr/include/w32api/winsock2.h
and/usr/include/netdb.h
 or /usr/include/sys/socket.h

Are there magic variables, definitions, or switches for a Cygwin build I'm 
missing?

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Re: [OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Marco Atzeri]

On 27/09/2017 09:30, Llelan D. wrote:

Can OpenMPI v3.0 be compiled for Cygwin64 on Windows 10?

Using:

./congifure --prefix=/usr/local
  [blah, blah... Apparently successful (At least it doesn't say there's 
an error)]

make -j 12 all

I'm getting a slew of compiler errors about redefinitions between:

    /usr/include/w32api/psdk_inc/_ip_types.h
     or /usr/include/w32api/winsock2.h
and    /usr/include/netdb.h
     or /usr/include/sys/socket.h

Are there magic variables, definitions, or switches for a Cygwin build 
I'm missing?




Hi Llelan,
I assume no, and expect it needs some patches as I am slowing
doing for 2.1.2.
There are portion of the code that rise definitions that collides
with the Windows headers for not Cygwin programs.

After I finish on 2.1.2 I will look on 3.0.

Regards
Marco



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[OMPI users] OpenMPI v3.0 on Cygwin

[Llelan D.]

Can OpenMPI v3.0 be compiled for Cygwin64 on Windows 10?

Using:

./congifure --prefix=/usr/local
 [blah, blah... Apparently successful (At least it doesn't say there's an 
error)]
make -j 12 all

I'm getting a slew of compiler errors about redefinitions between:

   /usr/include/w32api/psdk_inc/_ip_types.h
or /usr/include/w32api/winsock2.h
and/usr/include/netdb.h
    or /usr/include/sys/socket.h

Are there magic variables, definitions, or switches for a Cygwin build 
I'm missing?


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