Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-24 Thread David Teigland 
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 09:50:38PM +0200, Nir Soffer wrote:

> >> The major issue is sanlock, if it is maintaining a lease on storage,
> >> updating sanlock will cause the host to reboot. Sanlock is not
> >> petting the host watchdog because you killed sanlock during the
> >> upgrade, the watchdog will reboot the host.
> >
> > Is the sanlock RPM preventing an upgrade (in the pre-upgrade script) if it
> > has a lock?

I think that rpm upgrade is not interacting with the running daemon,
although there was a problem with that at one time.

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Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Nir Soffer 
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Yaniv Kaul  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Nir Soffer  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Yaniv Kaul  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 23, 2017 3:20 PM, "Nathanaël Blanchet"  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Le 23/01/2017 à 13:08, Yaniv Kaul a écrit :
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi
>> >>
>> >> The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to alert
>> >> for
>> >> new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update of virt
>> >> packages
>> >> and more are notified. I know that hot updating qemu-kvm package does
>> >> break
>> >> vms that are running on concerned hosts, but what about other one like
>> >> libvirt-client? I know it is recommended to put in maintenance while
>> >> updating, but can we update some minor packages without waiting for
>> >> migration?
>> >
>> >
>> > Hot-updating any package should not break any running VMs. If it does,
>> > it's
>> > a bug.
>>
>> Updating vdsm is not supported when the host is not in maintenance.
>>
>> The major issue is sanlock, if it is maintaining a lease on storage,
>> updating
>> sanlock will cause the host to reboot. Sanlock is not petting the host
>> watchdog
>> because you killed sanlock during the upgrade, the watchdog will
>> reboot the host.
>
>
> Is the sanlock RPM preventing an upgrade (in the pre-upgrade script) if it
> has a lock?

Adding David.

> Y.
>
>>
>> Updating vdms while file based storage domain are mounted is also not
>> supported, since the local mount path may change between versions, for
>> example because of fixed bugs. If the local mount path changed, the domain
>> will not be considered mounted, and some flows may fail.
>>
>> Nir
>>
>> > The last time I did a qemu-kvm upgrade, my host became down and the vms
>> > on
>> > it with a question mark and no possibility to interact with them. My
>> > only
>> > solution was to use the "confirm host has rebooted" to fence the vms,
>> > and
>> > then the nightmare began : the high
>> >
>> >
>> > Was the host indeed rebooted?
>> >
>> > availaible vms rebooted on an other host while they were still active on
>> > the
>> > first one, so they were up on two hosts at the same time. Their disk
>> > began
>> > to be written by two vms at the same time and I had to fscsk them to
>> > make
>> > them up on the next boot. Some database vms were completely unusabled!
>> >
>> >
>> > On 4.1 we are going to introduce a feature that will protect against
>> > this
>> > situation, by taking a lock on the storage.
>> > Y.
>> >
>> >
>> > So I'm very surprised to hear that it is possible to do  hot-updating on
>> > these kind of upgrade, and I won't do it anymore!
>> >
>> > I personally agree it's not the best habit to do it nevertheless, and I
>> > expect users to put hosts to maintenance before performing any upgrade.
>> >
>> > We cannot tell which update requires maintenance and which doesn't (or
>> > for
>> > that matter - requires a reboot or a service restart) - there's no
>> > metadata
>> > available to do attached to the packages that can tell us that.
>> > Y.
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Nathanaël Blanchet
>> >>
>> >> Supervision réseau
>> >> Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
>> >> 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
>> >> 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
>> >> Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
>> >> Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
>> >> blanc...@abes.fr
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> Users mailing list
>> >> Users@ovirt.org
>> >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Nathanaël Blanchet
>> >
>> > Supervision réseau
>> > Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
>> > 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
>> > 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
>> > Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
>> > Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
>> > blanc...@abes.fr
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users@ovirt.org
>> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Yaniv Kaul 
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Nir Soffer  wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Yaniv Kaul  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Jan 23, 2017 3:20 PM, "Nathanaël Blanchet"  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 23/01/2017 à 13:08, Yaniv Kaul a écrit :
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to alert for
> >> new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update of virt
> packages
> >> and more are notified. I know that hot updating qemu-kvm package does
> break
> >> vms that are running on concerned hosts, but what about other one like
> >> libvirt-client? I know it is recommended to put in maintenance while
> >> updating, but can we update some minor packages without waiting for
> >> migration?
> >
> >
> > Hot-updating any package should not break any running VMs. If it does,
> it's
> > a bug.
>
> Updating vdsm is not supported when the host is not in maintenance.
>
> The major issue is sanlock, if it is maintaining a lease on storage,
> updating
> sanlock will cause the host to reboot. Sanlock is not petting the host
> watchdog
> because you killed sanlock during the upgrade, the watchdog will
> reboot the host.
>

Is the sanlock RPM preventing an upgrade (in the pre-upgrade script) if it
has a lock?
Y.


> Updating vdms while file based storage domain are mounted is also not
> supported, since the local mount path may change between versions, for
> example because of fixed bugs. If the local mount path changed, the domain
> will not be considered mounted, and some flows may fail.
>
> Nir
>
> > The last time I did a qemu-kvm upgrade, my host became down and the vms
> on
> > it with a question mark and no possibility to interact with them. My only
> > solution was to use the "confirm host has rebooted" to fence the vms, and
> > then the nightmare began : the high
> >
> >
> > Was the host indeed rebooted?
> >
> > availaible vms rebooted on an other host while they were still active on
> the
> > first one, so they were up on two hosts at the same time. Their disk
> began
> > to be written by two vms at the same time and I had to fscsk them to make
> > them up on the next boot. Some database vms were completely unusabled!
> >
> >
> > On 4.1 we are going to introduce a feature that will protect against this
> > situation, by taking a lock on the storage.
> > Y.
> >
> >
> > So I'm very surprised to hear that it is possible to do  hot-updating on
> > these kind of upgrade, and I won't do it anymore!
> >
> > I personally agree it's not the best habit to do it nevertheless, and I
> > expect users to put hosts to maintenance before performing any upgrade.
> >
> > We cannot tell which update requires maintenance and which doesn't (or
> for
> > that matter - requires a reboot or a service restart) - there's no
> metadata
> > available to do attached to the packages that can tell us that.
> > Y.
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Nathanaël Blanchet
> >>
> >> Supervision réseau
> >> Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
> >> 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
> >> 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
> >> Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
> >> Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
> >> blanc...@abes.fr
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Users mailing list
> >> Users@ovirt.org
> >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Nathanaël Blanchet
> >
> > Supervision réseau
> > Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
> > 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
> > 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
> > Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
> > Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
> > blanc...@abes.fr
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Users mailing list
> > Users@ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Nir Soffer 
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 3:27 PM, Yaniv Kaul  wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 23, 2017 3:20 PM, "Nathanaël Blanchet"  wrote:
>
>
>
> Le 23/01/2017 à 13:08, Yaniv Kaul a écrit :
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to alert for
>> new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update of virt packages
>> and more are notified. I know that hot updating qemu-kvm package does break
>> vms that are running on concerned hosts, but what about other one like
>> libvirt-client? I know it is recommended to put in maintenance while
>> updating, but can we update some minor packages without waiting for
>> migration?
>
>
> Hot-updating any package should not break any running VMs. If it does, it's
> a bug.

Updating vdsm is not supported when the host is not in maintenance.

The major issue is sanlock, if it is maintaining a lease on storage, updating
sanlock will cause the host to reboot. Sanlock is not petting the host watchdog
because you killed sanlock during the upgrade, the watchdog will
reboot the host.

Updating vdms while file based storage domain are mounted is also not
supported, since the local mount path may change between versions, for
example because of fixed bugs. If the local mount path changed, the domain
will not be considered mounted, and some flows may fail.

Nir

> The last time I did a qemu-kvm upgrade, my host became down and the vms on
> it with a question mark and no possibility to interact with them. My only
> solution was to use the "confirm host has rebooted" to fence the vms, and
> then the nightmare began : the high
>
>
> Was the host indeed rebooted?
>
> availaible vms rebooted on an other host while they were still active on the
> first one, so they were up on two hosts at the same time. Their disk began
> to be written by two vms at the same time and I had to fscsk them to make
> them up on the next boot. Some database vms were completely unusabled!
>
>
> On 4.1 we are going to introduce a feature that will protect against this
> situation, by taking a lock on the storage.
> Y.
>
>
> So I'm very surprised to hear that it is possible to do  hot-updating on
> these kind of upgrade, and I won't do it anymore!
>
> I personally agree it's not the best habit to do it nevertheless, and I
> expect users to put hosts to maintenance before performing any upgrade.
>
> We cannot tell which update requires maintenance and which doesn't (or for
> that matter - requires a reboot or a service restart) - there's no metadata
> available to do attached to the packages that can tell us that.
> Y.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nathanaël Blanchet
>>
>> Supervision réseau
>> Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
>> 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
>> 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
>> Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
>> Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
>> blanc...@abes.fr
>>
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
>
> --
> Nathanaël Blanchet
>
> Supervision réseau
> Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
> 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
> 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
> Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
> Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
> blanc...@abes.fr
>
>
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
___
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Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Yaniv Kaul 
On Jan 23, 2017 3:20 PM, "Nathanaël Blanchet"  wrote:



Le 23/01/2017 à 13:08, Yaniv Kaul a écrit :



On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet < 
blanc...@abes.fr> wrote:

> Hi
>
> The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to alert for
> new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update of virt packages
> and more are notified. I know that hot updating qemu-kvm package does break
> vms that are running on concerned hosts, but what about other one like
> libvirt-client? I know it is recommended to put in maintenance while
> updating, but can we update some minor packages without waiting for
> migration?
>

Hot-updating any package should not break any running VMs. If it does, it's
a bug.

The last time I did a qemu-kvm upgrade, my host became down and the vms on
it with a question mark and no possibility to interact with them. My only
solution was to use the "confirm host has rebooted" to fence the vms, and
then the nightmare began : the high


Was the host indeed rebooted?

availaible vms rebooted on an other host while they were still active on
the first one, so they were up on two hosts at the same time. Their disk
began to be written by two vms at the same time and I had to fscsk them to
make them up on the next boot. Some database vms were completely unusabled!


On 4.1 we are going to introduce a feature that will protect against this
situation, by taking a lock on the storage.
Y.


So I'm very surprised to hear that it is possible to do  hot-updating on
these kind of upgrade, and I won't do it anymore!

I personally agree it's not the best habit to do it nevertheless, and I
expect users to put hosts to maintenance before performing any upgrade.

We cannot tell which update requires maintenance and which doesn't (or for
that matter - requires a reboot or a service restart) - there's no metadata
available to do attached to the packages that can tell us that.
Y.


>
>
> --
> Nathanaël Blanchet
>
> Supervision réseau
> Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
> 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
> 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
> Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
> Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
> blanc...@abes.fr
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>


-- 
Nathanaël Blanchet

Supervision réseau
Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5   
Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14blanc...@abes.fr
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Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Nathanaël Blanchet 



Le 23/01/2017 à 13:08, Yaniv Kaul a écrit :



On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet > wrote:


Hi

The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to
alert for new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update
of virt packages and more are notified. I know that hot updating
qemu-kvm package does break vms that are running on concerned
hosts, but what about other one like libvirt-client? I know it is
recommended to put in maintenance while updating, but can we
update some minor packages without waiting for migration?


Hot-updating any package should not break any running VMs. If it does, 
it's a bug.
The last time I did a qemu-kvm upgrade, my host became down and the vms 
on it with a question mark and no possibility to interact with them. My 
only solution was to use the "confirm host has rebooted" to fence the 
vms, and then the nightmare began : the high availaible vms rebooted on 
an other host while they were still active on the first one, so they 
were up on two hosts at the same time. Their disk began to be written by 
two vms at the same time and I had to fscsk them to make them up on the 
next boot. Some database vms were completely unusabled!


So I'm very surprised to hear that it is possible to do hot-updating on 
these kind of upgrade, and I won't do it anymore!
I personally agree it's not the best habit to do it nevertheless, and 
I expect users to put hosts to maintenance before performing any upgrade.


We cannot tell which update requires maintenance and which doesn't (or 
for that matter - requires a reboot or a service restart) - there's no 
metadata available to do attached to the packages that can tell us that.

Y.



-- 
Nathanaël Blanchet


Supervision réseau
Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
blanc...@abes.fr 

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--
Nathanaël Blanchet

Supervision réseau
Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5   
Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
blanc...@abes.fr

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Re: [ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Yaniv Kaul 
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:38 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet 
wrote:

> Hi
>
> The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to alert for
> new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update of virt packages
> and more are notified. I know that hot updating qemu-kvm package does break
> vms that are running on concerned hosts, but what about other one like
> libvirt-client? I know it is recommended to put in maintenance while
> updating, but can we update some minor packages without waiting for
> migration?
>

Hot-updating any package should not break any running VMs. If it does, it's
a bug.
I personally agree it's not the best habit to do it nevertheless, and I
expect users to put hosts to maintenance before performing any upgrade.

We cannot tell which update requires maintenance and which doesn't (or for
that matter - requires a reboot or a service restart) - there's no metadata
available to do attached to the packages that can tell us that.
Y.


>
>
> --
> Nathanaël Blanchet
>
> Supervision réseau
> Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
> 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
> 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5
> Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
> Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
> blanc...@abes.fr
>
> ___
> Users mailing list
> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
___
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[ovirt-users] packages that can be updated without maintening hosts

2017-01-23 Thread Nathanaël Blanchet 

Hi

The update notifier in the webadmin was originally designed to alert for 
new vdsm* packages. Now, I noticed that available update of virt 
packages and more are notified. I know that hot updating qemu-kvm 
package does break vms that are running on concerned hosts, but what 
about other one like libvirt-client? I know it is recommended to put in 
maintenance while updating, but can we update some minor packages 
without waiting for migration?



--
Nathanaël Blanchet

Supervision réseau
Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques
227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala
34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5   
Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55
Fax  33 (0)4 67 54 84 14
blanc...@abes.fr

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