Cannot create PoolableConnectionFactory
Hi, I've been away from my app for 3 months with only 4-5 tests in the interim (lots of tests while I was working on it though). Now, I have a "Connot create PoolableConnectionFactory" problem. What I've done is at the end of the email. Some new places to look at would be helpful. Setup: Vista (with auto update--I should be ok) Tomcat 6.0.18 (running in a window--not running as a service) Mysql 5.0 (running as a service) mysql-connector-java-5.1.7-bin.jar java 1.6.0_07 and also jre6 (new) No IDE yet. No problem seen with mysql or the mysql command line utility. Tomcat comes up and down alright. context.xml HTTP Status 500 error report: java.lang.NullPointerException PublicTopFrameset.doGet(PublicTopFrameset.java:109) javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:617) javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:717) Tomcat error report: AbandonedObjectPool is used (org.apache.tomcat.dbcp.dbcp.AbandonedObjectPool&b8f8eb) LogAbandoned: false RemoveAbandoned: true RemoveAbandonedTimeout: 120 org.apache.tomcat.dbcp.dbcp.SQLNestedException: Cannot create PoolableConnectionFactory (Communications link failure Last packet sent to the server was 0 ms ago.) --- The failing servlet: --- ... private ServletContext servletContext = null; private DataSource dataSource = null; public void init(ServletConfig config) throws ServletException { super.init(config); servletContext = config.getServletContext(); dataSource = (DataSource)servletContext.getAttribute("dataSource"); //The dataSource is set by an initialization servlet running at no 1 } public void doGet(HttpServletRequest request, HttpServletResponse response) throws ServletException, IOException { Connectioncon = null; ... try { //The error occurs here. con = dataSource.getConnection(); } catch (SQLException e){System.out.println(e.toString());} ... } --- So far: --- .In the con = dataSource.getConnection(); line, dataSource is not null. .I tested with my Norton firewall off. The problem persisted. .When the mysql port is changed to 3308, the error message is the same. I conclude that the error occurs before there is an attempt to use the mysql port? .I bit on a Sun Java upgrade popup several weeks ago but I believe I tested ok after it was installed. Anyway, the upgrade left a CLASSPATH variable containing only jre6. I temporarily removed the CLASSPATH variable but the problem persisted. I copied some .jar files into the new jre6/lib/ext folder from the jre1.6.0_07/lib/ext folder. No luck. .A few days ago, my computer hung at "shutting down" (first time ever) and I pulled the electrical plug and restarted. I don't belive I tested my app after the restart but I didn't notice anything else wrong. .I've not been able to resolve it through Internet search. Thanks, Mel McGuire - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: Tomcat Data sources and connection pools
So do I understand this correctly? Tomcat will read the context.xml file in the META-INF directory and get the data source from there? I also added a resource ref in my web.xml because that's what various tutorials suggest. After that is done, how do I obtain a connection? and one more question, is it correct to make a DAO a singleton? Thanks, On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 7:57 PM, Caldarale, Charles R < chuck.caldar...@unisys.com> wrote: > > From: Mighty Tornado [mailto:mighty.torn...@gmail.com] > > Subject: Tomcat Data sources and connection pools > > > > 1. I used WebLogic previously and there you had to configure > > connection pools and then create data sources and link them > > to connection pools. > > You can manage the pool yourself, but it's certainly easier if you let > Tomcat do it. The doc is here: > http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/jndi-datasource-examples-howto.html > > > 2. From what I understand I need to create the data source > > definition in the Context element of an xml file. Which xml > > file is it? > > You can define the data source in a file if you want it available > only to one webapp, or as a if you want it available to all > webapps. A element describes the Tomcat-specific configuration > for a webapp; it is normally located within the webapp at > META-INF/context.xml, or you can also put it at > conf/Catalina/[host]/[appName].xml if you want to keep it outside of the > webapp's .war file or directory. (For compatibility with older Tomcat > versions, you can also put it in conf/server.xml, but that's strongly > discouraged these days.) Doc is here: > http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/config/context.html > > Do not use the path of docBase attributes when using one of the standard > location for your element and webapp. > > - Chuck > > > THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY > MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received > this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its > attachments from all computers. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org > >
RE: not valid Tomcat installation
you'll need to install the sysdeo tomcat plugin available from http://www.eclipsetotale.com/tomcatPlugin.html (step by step instructions available at the site) Bon Chance/Viel Gluck Martin __ Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung / Disclaimer and confidentiality note Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen. This message is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, we kindly ask you to please inform the sender. Any unauthorised dissemination or copying hereof is prohibited. This message serves for information purposes only and shall not have any legally binding effect. Given that e-mails can easily be subject to manipulation, we can not accept any liability for the content provided. > Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:18:33 +0100 > From: a...@ice-sa.com > To: users@tomcat.apache.org > Subject: Re: not valid Tomcat installation > > Sergey Livanov wrote: > > no, I have only tc 6.0.18 > > CATALINA_HOME points to c:\tomcat > > > As I mentioned, I do not know Eclipse, but maybe it checks for certain > files. If you did not install the zip version of Tomcat, some files are > missing, and that might be why Eclipse is lost. > If that is the case, download the zip version, and I think you can just > unzip it on top of your installation directory. > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org > _ Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009
RE: Tomcat Data sources and connection pools
> From: Mighty Tornado [mailto:mighty.torn...@gmail.com] > Subject: Tomcat Data sources and connection pools > > 1. I used WebLogic previously and there you had to configure > connection pools and then create data sources and link them > to connection pools. You can manage the pool yourself, but it's certainly easier if you let Tomcat do it. The doc is here: http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/jndi-datasource-examples-howto.html > 2. From what I understand I need to create the data source > definition in the Context element of an xml file. Which xml > file is it? You can define the data source in a file if you want it available only to one webapp, or as a if you want it available to all webapps. A element describes the Tomcat-specific configuration for a webapp; it is normally located within the webapp at META-INF/context.xml, or you can also put it at conf/Catalina/[host]/[appName].xml if you want to keep it outside of the webapp's .war file or directory. (For compatibility with older Tomcat versions, you can also put it in conf/server.xml, but that's strongly discouraged these days.) Doc is here: http://tomcat.apache.org/tomcat-6.0-doc/config/context.html Do not use the path of docBase attributes when using one of the standard location for your element and webapp. - Chuck THIS COMMUNICATION MAY CONTAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND/OR OTHERWISE PROPRIETARY MATERIAL and is thus for use only by the intended recipient. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the e-mail and its attachments from all computers. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Tomcat Data sources and connection pools
Hi, A couple of questions regarding Tomcat 6 Data Sources. 1. I used WebLogic previously and there you had to configure connection pools and then create data sources and link them to connection pools. Is the process the same in Tomcat? 2. From what I understand I need to create the data source definition in the Context element of an xml file. Which xml file is it? Thanks.
RE: [OT] of very off topic marketing question
> From: André Warnier [mailto:a...@ice-sa.com] > Peter Crowther wrote: > > I'm also particularly amused by the topmost set of bars in > figure 2, given how proud the perl-ites are of their RE > library and performance ;-). > > > You didn't expect for a minute that this would remain > unanswered, did you ? > First, the perl-ites would answer that the comparison being > with PHP, it is of little relevance. . Quite. One of these days I'll learn to read... apologies. - Peter - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: job announcement - Software Architect
To the OP : I know of only two people in the world who meet all the criteria you expressed in your advertisement (*). Unfortunately, they were working for a US Fortune 500 financial company which has since been bailed out. Consequently, they got their boni and are now happily retired in Florida and not interested anymore. May I thus respectfully suggest that you lower the barrier of entry somewhat, so that more of us could apply ? (*) Mind you, they meet them together, not individually. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: job announcement - Software Architect
> followed the link to Wikipedia (automatically assumed this is what he meant) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development :: which includes in the initial description the line: "Note that test-driven development is a software design method, not merely a method of testing." TDD/BDD as an iterative *design* process is one of those things that I think you just have to try until you achieve that 'a-HA!' moment :-) YMMV! -- Hassan Schroeder hassan.schroe...@gmail.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: job announcement - Software Architect
i googled 'TDD' followed the link to Wikipedia (automatically assumed this is what he meant) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test-driven_development *thanks for the clarification* Martin __ Disclaimer and confidentiality note This message is confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, we kindly ask you to please inform the sender. Any unauthorised dissemination or copying hereof is prohibited. This message serves for information purposes only and shall not have any legally binding effect. Given that e-mails can easily be subject to manipulation, we can not accept any liability for the content provided. > Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:38:29 +0100 > Subject: Re: job announcement - Software Architect > From: rosenberg.l...@googlemail.com > To: users@tomcat.apache.org > > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Gregor Schneider > wrote: > > Martin, > > > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Gainty wrote: > >> > >> test driven means if I create a component as a developer I need to install > >> a JUnit testcase that will test the requisite function > >> > > > > Actually there's a bit more behind it. > > Usually, you start to design an application starting with some > > UseCases, Sequenz-Diagrams, Action-Diagrams, Class-Diagrams etc. So > > basically you have a MDA (Modell Driven Architecture) reflecting / > > incooperating *all* business-requirements (hopefully...) > > > > When Using TDD, all of that is left behind. The flow of activity is like > > - analyse the problem / requirement > > - write a test reflecting the requirement > > - code something on which the test will not fail > > You are describing Test Driven DEVELOPMENT. The original post included > Test Driven _DESIGN_. > > Since the main criticism of TDD usually goes into the lack of Design, > I was really interested how they managed to come around this problem > and probably came out with a new methodology. Otherwise one have to > assume that the OP was just using Buzzwords he found to sound cool > without understanding what they actually mean. > > regards > Leon > > Btw, what you were describing is the general OOD which doesn't imply a > Model Driven Architecture (they invented UML before they trademarked > MDD). > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org > _ Internet Explorer 8 – Now Available. Faster, safer, easier. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/141323790/direct/01/
Re: job announcement - Software Architect
On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:18 AM, Gregor Schneider wrote: > Martin, > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Gainty wrote: >> >> test driven means if I create a component as a developer I need to install a >> JUnit testcase that will test the requisite function >> > > Actually there's a bit more behind it. > Usually, you start to design an application starting with some > UseCases, Sequenz-Diagrams, Action-Diagrams, Class-Diagrams etc. So > basically you have a MDA (Modell Driven Architecture) reflecting / > incooperating *all* business-requirements (hopefully...) > > When Using TDD, all of that is left behind. The flow of activity is like > - analyse the problem / requirement > - write a test reflecting the requirement > - code something on which the test will not fail You are describing Test Driven DEVELOPMENT. The original post included Test Driven _DESIGN_. Since the main criticism of TDD usually goes into the lack of Design, I was really interested how they managed to come around this problem and probably came out with a new methodology. Otherwise one have to assume that the OP was just using Buzzwords he found to sound cool without understanding what they actually mean. regards Leon Btw, what you were describing is the general OOD which doesn't imply a Model Driven Architecture (they invented UML before they trademarked MDD). - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
RE: job announcement - Software Architect
MG>questions/comments __ Verzicht und Vertraulichkeitanmerkung Diese Nachricht ist vertraulich. Sollten Sie nicht der vorgesehene Empfaenger sein, so bitten wir hoeflich um eine Mitteilung. Jede unbefugte Weiterleitung oder Fertigung einer Kopie ist unzulaessig. Diese Nachricht dient lediglich dem Austausch von Informationen und entfaltet keine rechtliche Bindungswirkung. Aufgrund der leichten Manipulierbarkeit von E-Mails koennen wir keine Haftung fuer den Inhalt uebernehmen. > Martin, > > On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Gainty wrote: > > > > test driven means if I create a component as a developer I need to install > > a JUnit testcase that will test the requisite function > > > > Actually there's a bit more behind it. > Usually, you start to design an application starting with some > UseCases, Sequenz-Diagrams, Action-Diagrams, Class-Diagrams etc. So > basically you have a MDA (Modell Driven Architecture) reflecting / > incooperating *all* business-requirements (hopefully...) MG>agreed but unless you have the business requirement clearly stated beforehand MG>Sequence,Action and Class Diagrams would not reflect true customer need > > When Using TDD, all of that is left behind. The flow of activity is like > - analyse the problem / requirement > - write a test reflecting the requirement > - code something on which the test will not fail > > As you can see, TDD is more something being used for small projects. > I'd even say that what we understand as a project is already too big > for pure TDD. > TDD is great if you have a small problem, need ti implement a new > requirement or just fix a bug / unwanted behaviour. IMHO it's useless > for real-world projects having a certain complexity and size. MG>6 years ago we faced this very dilemma where a massively monolithic MG>webapp was released to user base and accomplished everything it was supposed to MG>do we had not developed any testcases..after all the main objective was that 'it MG>worked' MG>the user found that when the webapp was deployed in their locale and their MG>environment that the webapp 'did not work' with their specific environment MG>we simply did not accomodate 'their environmental requirements' into the code > Besides, if you are using something like MDA, you start up like > outlined above, however, one you start to implement, you don't start > to code but you start to write some tests for the smallest parts aka > classes. MG>could you provide an real-life scenario where MDA is applicable? MG>are there advantages of using MDA over TDD? MG>are there disadvantages of using TDD over MDA? > IMHO tests should mirror the requirements aka modells, however, I do > not think that the process should start with tests but tests should > come after the design is roughly set. > > > Rapid Iterative Development means make as small a piece of functionality > > such as a >>component > > and then add ancillary functions such as this project requirement > > The thing is, that we all want the requirements to be complete once we > start with the development (which, in my understanding, consists of > analyses, design, test, implementation). However, most of us know that > requirements almost never are complete. > Therefore, one tries to accept the fact and uses something like RID > (being developed from RAD). MG>could you explain RID? MG>could you explain RID's advantages over RAD? > The lifecycle is: > > - Requirements capture MG>agree..this is important.. > - Analysis MG>i take it this means prioritisation? MG>where is resource allocation? > - Design MG>i assume conforming your webapp's architecture to real world test scenarios? > - Implementation MG>this is where TDD tests would either fail/succeed..yes/no? > - Testing MG>if you spent more than 6 months coding in the wrong direction than I hope MG>the projects funding source is infinite MG>the notion of a bunch of folks in one country coding and tossing a webapp MG>over the wall to another country to test is not cost-feasible and would fail MG>because the coders environment never accomodated real-world scenarios > After that again starting with requirements capture. MG>this should've been the first step.. > This seems to be perfect - but hold it: > > As you can imagine, it's almost impossible to estimate the effort for > a project, since you don't know all requirements beforehand. MG>i once worked for someone that would automatically cut your estimate in half MG>so if you need a min 1 week your estimate to this P/L would task at 2 weeks.. MG>the developer needs to grasp 75% of the code requirements before they start MG>in other words your core functions need to be in the first 75% of your deliverables MG>if the remaining 25% takes more time than 75% already completed that means MG>your process methodology is not robust > So the big challange will be to convince your customer that this will > not be a fixed-price / fixed-time-
Re: Slightly OT: Who is attending the Tomcat courses on Monday & Tuesday
Arriving some time Tuesday afternoon, staying until Saturday at the convention hotel. André - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: APR does not understand this error code: proxy: read response failed
No hints at to fix this problem? On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Jakob Ericsson wrote: > Hi, > > We are experiencing issues with AJP-communication between the httpd > and Tomcat 6. This is communication between httpd and tomcat on > localhost. > > Most of the requests work great in our performance tests but quite > randomly we see this error in httpd error.log: > ... > [Wed Mar 18 21:47:09 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 21:47:09 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 21:47:09 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > ... > > This result in a 500 (or sometimes 503) response code to the user. > As you can see in our log (larger log excerpt further down in mail), > it occurs quite randomly. There are no traces of error in our Tomcat > logs. > > > Any idea what kind of error this is? > > Can we tune; httpd, tomcat or Windows to get rid of this problem? > > > > Our setup > > Sun JVM 1.6.0.12 (64-bit) > Windows 2003 Server 64-bit (no firewall) > Apache 2.2.11 (64-bit) > Tomcat 6.0.18 (Native tomcat lib installed) > > > Interesting stuff in httpd.conf > > ServerRoot "D:/Apache/Apache2.2" > PidFile logs/httpd.pid > Timeout 3600 > > KeepAlive On > MaxKeepAliveRequests 600 > KeepAliveTimeout 15 > > > ThreadsPerChild 1000 > MaxRequestsPerChild 0 > > > Listen 80 > > LoadModule proxy_module modules/mod_proxy.so > LoadModule proxy_ajp_module modules/mod_proxy_ajp.so > > ... > > ProxyRequests Off > > ProxyPass /server-status ! > ProxyPass /s/ ! > ProxyPass /favicon.ico ! > ProxyPass / ajp://localhost:40010/ min=20 smax=30 ttl=120 max=199 timeout=60 > > > > > Log from our latest performance test > > [Wed Mar 18 18:42:09 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 18:42:09 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 18:42:09 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 18:55:55 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 18:55:55 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 18:55:55 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 19:08:09 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 19:08:09 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 19:08:09 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 19:29:50 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 19:29:50 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 19:29:50 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 20:00:26 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 20:00:26 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 20:00:26 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 20:47:46 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 20:47:46 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 20:47:46 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 21:07:13 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 21:07:13 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 21:07:13 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 21:42:03 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 21:42:03 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 21:42:03 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 21:47:09 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: > ajp_ilink_receive() can't receive header > [Wed Mar 18 21:47:09 2009] [error] ajp_read_header: ajp_ilink_receive failed > [Wed Mar 18 21:47:09 2009] [error] (120006)APR does not understand > this error code: proxy: read response failed from 127.0.0.1:40010 > (localhost) > [Wed Mar 18 21:50:00 2009] [error] (70014)End of file found: >
Re: Slightly OT: Who is attending the Tomcat courses on Monday & Tuesday
Pieter, I'll be there starting on Tuesday Hackaton (actually will be arriving sometime on Monday) and stay until Friday. Btw., I found this site quite helpful: http://aceu2009.crowdvine.com/ Rgds Gregor -- just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you... gpgp-fp: 79A84FA526807026795E4209D3B3FE028B3170B2 gpgp-key available @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de:11371 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: job announcement - Software Architect
Martin, On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Martin Gainty wrote: > > test driven means if I create a component as a developer I need to install a > JUnit testcase that will test the requisite function > Actually there's a bit more behind it. Usually, you start to design an application starting with some UseCases, Sequenz-Diagrams, Action-Diagrams, Class-Diagrams etc. So basically you have a MDA (Modell Driven Architecture) reflecting / incooperating *all* business-requirements (hopefully...) When Using TDD, all of that is left behind. The flow of activity is like - analyse the problem / requirement - write a test reflecting the requirement - code something on which the test will not fail As you can see, TDD is more something being used for small projects. I'd even say that what we understand as a project is already too big for pure TDD. TDD is great if you have a small problem, need ti implement a new requirement or just fix a bug / unwanted behaviour. IMHO it's useless for real-world projects having a certain complexity and size. Besides, if you are using something like MDA, you start up like outlined above, however, one you start to implement, you don't start to code but you start to write some tests for the smallest parts aka classes. IMHO tests should mirror the requirements aka modells, however, I do not think that the process should start with tests but tests should come after the design is roughly set. > Rapid Iterative Development means make as small a piece of functionality such > as a component > and then add ancillary functions such as this project requirement The thing is, that we all want the requirements to be complete once we start with the development (which, in my understanding, consists of analyses, design, test, implementation). However, most of us know that requirements almost never are complete. Therefore, one tries to accept the fact and uses something like RID (being developed from RAD). The lifecycle is: - Requirements capture - Analysis - Design - Implementation - Testing After that again starting with requirements capture. This seems to be perfect - but hold it: As you can imagine, it's almost impossible to estimate the effort for a project, since you don't know all requirements beforehand. So the big challange will be to convince your customer that this will not be a fixed-price / fixed-time-project, however, he (the customer) will definately benefit since this approach is most flexiable, you are able to shortly implement new requirements (i.e. market-conditions, new legal requirements etc.). The problem still is: Most customers don't actually know their own requirements, they don't know what they want / need, but still they want a statement on what the project costs and how long it will take... Rgds Gregor -- just because your paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you... gpgp-fp: 79A84FA526807026795E4209D3B3FE028B3170B2 gpgp-key available @ http://pgpkeys.pca.dfn.de:11371 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org