Re: insfrastructure set list
Today we're about to deploy a simple app that is basically a charts solution that will run over Tomcat 7.X. Well till there everything is all right. But since I'm not a heavy user of Tomcat I'm not so sure what could that be the best settup for my app for not have problems in a first sight by a miss configuration. This app will have 100 concurrent users and in terms of hardware I'm not sure what they will give us. Is that possible that you guys share some experience and minimal setup due to those above scenario? Thanks!!! Daniel, I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly. If everyone that wanted to use tomcat emailed the list, none of the people who answer questions on the list would be able to get any work done. They are only answering the questions posted on this list in their own free time. Nobody is paid to answer questions on this list. The suggested approach to using tomcat (and open source software in general) is 1) download, install, try it out 2) if you get an error, google for the error message. 99.99% of the time, somebody else will have hit the problem and commented about it somewhere 3) if you can't fix it by yourself, ask the list You seem to be asking for this piece of software (that I won't tell you anything about), how should I configure tomcat? Nobody can answer that question. We don't know the software - you haven't told us. We don't know the hardware. We don't know the load. Even if people did know the above, the answer is always to try your suggested load using your hardware, and see what happens. The defaults generally work very well in a broad range of situations. That's why they are the defaults. Perhaps you will need to tweak some settings, but you need to have a baseline, and method to test what effect each change actually has. HTH Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: insfrastructure set list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel, On 10/23/12 9:52 AM, Daniel Barcellos wrote: Today we're about to deploy a simple app that is basically a charts solution that will run over Tomcat 7.X. Like JasperReports Server? This app will have 100 concurrent users and in terms of hardware I'm not sure what they will give us. So do you want to know what minimal system requirements you should give to someone, or do you want to know what you'll be able to handle given a particular piece of hardware? You have to have /one/ fixed variable in your equation ;) - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCG3RwACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PD9IwCfddmjyYA8+qqqTV+1Y9yxVUUk PiUAnA+BZPBwiZ79mPxivzZTd1BRRuNI =hIqz -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: insfrastructure set list
Hi Chris, you've said: I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly Thank you for your patience in advising me how should I use this list. I'm pretty sure you're right, but if I'm here that's because I'm not able to find any good solution in the google's ocean. I was wondering if based on your experience that is possible to setup my enviroment since I was already faced some issues due to miss configuration or even because my server just got hanged by consuming all it thread and so on. Hi Christopher, It's a chart solution that uses Primefaces componenet suit. I was wondering that based in the fact that this app will have to handle 100 users over it. And I was wondering that since i'm not sure about the hardware I have on the client side, I'd like to know if there's a good setup like how many virtual memory do I need to use, how many threads do I need to set... stuffs like that. I'm pretty sure that someone on this list already faced some kind of scenario and might share his knoledge... Imagine this simple examplo... we used to develop app for Oracle forms that runs over a oracle application server. If you need to install it you should obey a big list of requirement so that every thing under its control will run ok. Now we need to use and deploy software over Tomcat that is basically a free server. Where can I find those requirements? I'm not able to find them on google because there's a lot of specif case documents and posts... Cheers, 2012/10/23 chris derham ch...@derham.me.uk Today we're about to deploy a simple app that is basically a charts solution that will run over Tomcat 7.X. Well till there everything is all right. But since I'm not a heavy user of Tomcat I'm not so sure what could that be the best settup for my app for not have problems in a first sight by a miss configuration. This app will have 100 concurrent users and in terms of hardware I'm not sure what they will give us. Is that possible that you guys share some experience and minimal setup due to those above scenario? Thanks!!! Daniel, I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly. If everyone that wanted to use tomcat emailed the list, none of the people who answer questions on the list would be able to get any work done. They are only answering the questions posted on this list in their own free time. Nobody is paid to answer questions on this list. The suggested approach to using tomcat (and open source software in general) is 1) download, install, try it out 2) if you get an error, google for the error message. 99.99% of the time, somebody else will have hit the problem and commented about it somewhere 3) if you can't fix it by yourself, ask the list You seem to be asking for this piece of software (that I won't tell you anything about), how should I configure tomcat? Nobody can answer that question. We don't know the software - you haven't told us. We don't know the hardware. We don't know the load. Even if people did know the above, the answer is always to try your suggested load using your hardware, and see what happens. The defaults generally work very well in a broad range of situations. That's why they are the defaults. Perhaps you will need to tweak some settings, but you need to have a baseline, and method to test what effect each change actually has. HTH Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: insfrastructure set list
On 10/23/2012 4:12 PM, Daniel Barcellos wrote: Hi Chris, you've said: I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly Thank you for your patience in advising me how should I use this list. I'm pretty sure you're right, but if I'm here that's because I'm not able to find any good solution in the google's ocean. I was wondering if based on your experience that is possible to setup my enviroment since I was already faced some issues due to miss configuration or even because my server just got hanged by consuming all it thread and so on. Hi Christopher, It's a chart solution that uses Primefaces componenet suit. I was wondering that based in the fact that this app will have to handle 100 users over it. And I was wondering that since i'm not sure about the hardware I have on the client side, I'd like to know if there's a good setup like how many virtual memory do I need to use, how many threads do I need to set... stuffs like that. I'm pretty sure that someone on this list already faced some kind of scenario and might share his knoledge... Imagine this simple examplo... we used to develop app for Oracle forms that runs over a oracle application server. If you need to install it you should obey a big list of requirement so that every thing under its control will run ok. Now we need to use and deploy software over Tomcat that is basically a free server. Where can I find those requirements? I'm not able to find them on google because there's a lot of specif case documents and posts... The problem is that Tomcat is a far more general-purpose server than Oracle forms under Oracle. You can literally do pretty much ANYTHING under Tomcat that can be done in java. So benchmarking and server sizing requirements are highly application-specific. For example, I support and maintain two major applications for my company. One of them is very simple and runs 600+ simultaneous clients under a single tomcat instance, and the server that it's on runs 8 separate tomcat instances, totaling over 2000 simultaneous users, and the CPU of all those instances combined never goes over 5 to 10% usage. The other application never has more than 20 or so simultaneous users, but it is far more demanding, and routinely keeps the cpu trucking along at 20% or so during the busy times of the day. So, once you get *your* application running, you're going to have to benchmark it yourself, because the server and resource requirements it needs probably have no resemblance to either of my applications. Once you have some data, come back to the list with specific questions and problems, and we'll be much more able to help you. It was people on this list that helped me get my simple app to be able to handle as much as it does... Cheers, 2012/10/23 chris derhamch...@derham.me.uk Today we're about to deploy a simple app that is basically a charts solution that will run over Tomcat 7.X. Well till there everything is all right. But since I'm not a heavy user of Tomcat I'm not so sure what could that be the best settup for my app for not have problems in a first sight by a miss configuration. This app will have 100 concurrent users and in terms of hardware I'm not sure what they will give us. Is that possible that you guys share some experience and minimal setup due to those above scenario? Thanks!!! Daniel, I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly. If everyone that wanted to use tomcat emailed the list, none of the people who answer questions on the list would be able to get any work done. They are only answering the questions posted on this list in their own free time. Nobody is paid to answer questions on this list. The suggested approach to using tomcat (and open source software in general) is 1) download, install, try it out 2) if you get an error, google for the error message. 99.99% of the time, somebody else will have hit the problem and commented about it somewhere 3) if you can't fix it by yourself, ask the list You seem to be asking for this piece of software (that I won't tell you anything about), how should I configure tomcat? Nobody can answer that question. We don't know the software - you haven't told us. We don't know the hardware. We don't know the load. Even if people did know the above, the answer is always to try your suggested load using your hardware, and see what happens. The defaults generally work very well in a broad range of situations. That's why they are the defaults. Perhaps you will need to tweak some settings, but you need to have a baseline, and method to test what effect each change actually has. HTH Chris - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: insfrastructure set list
On 10/23/2012 1:12 PM, Daniel Barcellos wrote: Hi Chris, you've said: I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly Thank you for your patience in advising me how should I use this list. I'm pretty sure you're right, but if I'm here that's because I'm not able to find any good solution in the google's ocean. I was wondering if based on your experience that is possible to setup my enviroment since I was already faced some issues due to miss configuration or even because my server just got hanged by consuming all it thread and so on. Hi Christopher, It's a chart solution that uses Primefaces componenet suit. I was wondering that based in the fact that this app will have to handle 100 users over it. And I was wondering that since i'm not sure about the hardware I have on the client side, I'd like to know if there's a good setup like how many virtual memory do I need to use, how many threads do I need to set... stuffs like that. I'm pretty sure that someone on this list already faced some kind of scenario and might share his knoledge... Imagine this simple examplo... we used to develop app for Oracle forms that runs over a oracle application server. If you need to install it you should obey a big list of requirement so that every thing under its control will run ok. Now we need to use and deploy software over Tomcat that is basically a free server. Where can I find those requirements? I'm not able to find them on google because there's a lot of specif case documents and posts... Cheers, 2012/10/23 chris derham ch...@derham.me.uk Today we're about to deploy a simple app that is basically a charts solution that will run over Tomcat 7.X. Well till there everything is all right. But since I'm not a heavy user of Tomcat I'm not so sure what could that be the best settup for my app for not have problems in a first sight by a miss configuration. This app will have 100 concurrent users and in terms of hardware I'm not sure what they will give us. Is that possible that you guys share some experience and minimal setup due to those above scenario? Thanks!!! Daniel, I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly. If everyone that wanted to use tomcat emailed the list, none of the people who answer questions on the list would be able to get any work done. They are only answering the questions posted on this list in their own free time. Nobody is paid to answer questions on this list. The suggested approach to using tomcat (and open source software in general) is 1) download, install, try it out 2) if you get an error, google for the error message. 99.99% of the time, somebody else will have hit the problem and commented about it somewhere 3) if you can't fix it by yourself, ask the list You seem to be asking for this piece of software (that I won't tell you anything about), how should I configure tomcat? Nobody can answer that question. We don't know the software - you haven't told us. We don't know the hardware. We don't know the load. Even if people did know the above, the answer is always to try your suggested load using your hardware, and see what happens. The defaults generally work very well in a broad range of situations. That's why they are the defaults. Perhaps you will need to tweak some settings, but you need to have a baseline, and method to test what effect each change actually has. HTH Chris As many others have said, there is no magic bullet. OK, So now we know that you're running a Primefaces application (JSF widget set) on Tomcat 7.x. We don't know if you're using JSF 1.1 or JSF 2 (and the corresponding version of Primefaces). We don't know if you're using CDI with your Primefaces application (and if so, then you are using JSF 2). If you are using CDI, then you'll need to include both the JBoss Weld Servlet (or something similar) and an appropriate configuration in context.xml and web.xml. I use Maven to build most of my applications these days, so here are the snippets I use for JSF 2 with CDI on Tomcat 7. !-- pom.xml dependency -- dependency groupIdorg.jboss.weld.servlet/groupId artifactIdweld-servlet/artifactId version1.1.9.Final/version /dependency !-- Resource in context.xml in META-INF -- Resource name=BeanManager auth=Container type=javax.enterprise.inject.spi.BeanManager factory=org.jboss.weld.resources.ManagerObjectFactory/ !-- listener in web.xml -- listener descriptionCDI listener/description listener-class org.jboss.weld.environment.servlet.Listener /listener-class /listener Tomcat 7 is a servlet container and is not required to provide CDI as per the specifications. Now, we get to resource usage of your application. In my limited experience, I've found that JSF / Primefaces is a bit heavier than just plain MVC style applications. Memory (heap, perm-gen) may need to be increased. Then again, it may not need to be increased. The only way to know is
Re: insfrastructure set list
Hi Guys, You've been greate with your help! I knew that all replies will have useful even if some o you guys do not agree with my considarations nor if I could make myself understandable! I think the two last answers can send me to the right direction! So thanks again!! Obrigado! Sent from my iPhone On 23/10/2012, at 18:57, Mark Eggers its_toas...@yahoo.com wrote: On 10/23/2012 1:12 PM, Daniel Barcellos wrote: Hi Chris, you've said: I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly Thank you for your patience in advising me how should I use this list. I'm pretty sure you're right, but if I'm here that's because I'm not able to find any good solution in the google's ocean. I was wondering if based on your experience that is possible to setup my enviroment since I was already faced some issues due to miss configuration or even because my server just got hanged by consuming all it thread and so on. Hi Christopher, It's a chart solution that uses Primefaces componenet suit. I was wondering that based in the fact that this app will have to handle 100 users over it. And I was wondering that since i'm not sure about the hardware I have on the client side, I'd like to know if there's a good setup like how many virtual memory do I need to use, how many threads do I need to set... stuffs like that. I'm pretty sure that someone on this list already faced some kind of scenario and might share his knoledge... Imagine this simple examplo... we used to develop app for Oracle forms that runs over a oracle application server. If you need to install it you should obey a big list of requirement so that every thing under its control will run ok. Now we need to use and deploy software over Tomcat that is basically a free server. Where can I find those requirements? I'm not able to find them on google because there's a lot of specif case documents and posts... Cheers, 2012/10/23 chris derham ch...@derham.me.uk Today we're about to deploy a simple app that is basically a charts solution that will run over Tomcat 7.X. Well till there everything is all right. But since I'm not a heavy user of Tomcat I'm not so sure what could that be the best settup for my app for not have problems in a first sight by a miss configuration. This app will have 100 concurrent users and in terms of hardware I'm not sure what they will give us. Is that possible that you guys share some experience and minimal setup due to those above scenario? Thanks!!! Daniel, I think that you are trying to use this list incorrectly. If everyone that wanted to use tomcat emailed the list, none of the people who answer questions on the list would be able to get any work done. They are only answering the questions posted on this list in their own free time. Nobody is paid to answer questions on this list. The suggested approach to using tomcat (and open source software in general) is 1) download, install, try it out 2) if you get an error, google for the error message. 99.99% of the time, somebody else will have hit the problem and commented about it somewhere 3) if you can't fix it by yourself, ask the list You seem to be asking for this piece of software (that I won't tell you anything about), how should I configure tomcat? Nobody can answer that question. We don't know the software - you haven't told us. We don't know the hardware. We don't know the load. Even if people did know the above, the answer is always to try your suggested load using your hardware, and see what happens. The defaults generally work very well in a broad range of situations. That's why they are the defaults. Perhaps you will need to tweak some settings, but you need to have a baseline, and method to test what effect each change actually has. HTH Chris As many others have said, there is no magic bullet. OK, So now we know that you're running a Primefaces application (JSF widget set) on Tomcat 7.x. We don't know if you're using JSF 1.1 or JSF 2 (and the corresponding version of Primefaces). We don't know if you're using CDI with your Primefaces application (and if so, then you are using JSF 2). If you are using CDI, then you'll need to include both the JBoss Weld Servlet (or something similar) and an appropriate configuration in context.xml and web.xml. I use Maven to build most of my applications these days, so here are the snippets I use for JSF 2 with CDI on Tomcat 7. !-- pom.xml dependency -- dependency groupIdorg.jboss.weld.servlet/groupId artifactIdweld-servlet/artifactId version1.1.9.Final/version /dependency !-- Resource in context.xml in META-INF -- Resource name=BeanManager auth=Container type=javax.enterprise.inject.spi.BeanManager factory=org.jboss.weld.resources.ManagerObjectFactory/ !-- listener in web.xml -- listener descriptionCDI listener/description
Re: insfrastructure set list
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel, On 10/23/12 4:12 PM, Daniel Barcellos wrote: Imagine this simple examplo... we used to develop app for Oracle forms that runs over a oracle application server. If you need to install it you should obey a big list of requirement so that every thing under its control will run ok. Now we need to use and deploy software over Tomcat that is basically a free server. Where can I find those requirements? Tomcat by itself (well, with the JVM) can run in about 16MiB of Java heap. Your webapp will probably need a *whole* lot more than that. Tomcat is lean and mean. OAS is a beast that has higher minimal requirements, but I suspect that OAS all by itself can run in maybe 32MiB or 40MiB. The reason they tell you that you need 32GiB of heap space is because they want your app to work pretty much no matter what. Realistically, only you can determine what your requirements are. Start by giving the JVM plenty of heap space. Let's say 1GiB (if you have it) on a test bed. Then, deploy your webapp, force a few GCs (use jconsole or something else that allows you to do that) then check the memory usage: that's your baseline. You cannot possibly go below that and support even 0 users. Then, login a single user and go through a typical workflow. Repeat the GC/heap dance from above and see what the requirements are for a single user. Then try 10 users. Then 20 users. You can even graph them if you want to get fancy (which I recommend). I also recommend using a tool like JMeter to act as users. This will give you something repeatable and scalable (from a /load/ point of view). You might still be wrong about the heap space, because you may have huge transient requirements during a single transaction (for instance, you need to build an in-memory image, plot stuff against it, compress the image, etc.). You'll need to load-test your webapp in a test bed: that's the only way you can really know your requirements. The CPU speed is more difficult to pinpoint because realistically, any CPU will do, right? It's just a question of how long it takes to do stuff. So, you have to do all of the above (1 user, 10 users, 100 users) working constantly and checking the response time to see if it meets your targets. For instance, some people require that their response times are less than 500ms. For you, that might be more like 3000ms. You may have different targets for different transactions: choosing a chart template might need to be within 500ms but it's okay if the actual chart generation takes 10s. In case you aren't realizing it, yet: nobody can tell you what your own requirements are: you have to go figure them out yourself. If it makes you feel better, I can tell you what you need and I'm sure you'll be happy with the performance. Here goes: 1 IBM BladeCenter Chassis 4 IBM BladeCenter HSxx (you get to choose which ones) (You'll want a chassis with at least 8 blade slots: you'll need room to grow) Go for 1TiB per blade: you'll thank me later. You're definitely going to need a bank of SAS disks. Don't bother with elaborate RAID rigs or anything like that: just mirror everything because you don't want to waste time waiting for any RAID re-syncing. Or you could just fire the whole thing up on a laptop and beat the hell out of it. Your choice. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCHOHIACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PA0hQCfeXBZPLpsaQl9uvLI2QKGQcwA 3NMAoLnjdE1dzgLwCedtMYwoPc12q7Pj =LdQW -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: insfrastructure set list
Thank you só much Christofer that's what I'm talking about!!! Muito obrigado pela ajuda!!! Sent from my iPhone On 23/10/2012, at 22:38, Christopher Schultz ch...@christopherschultz.net wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel, On 10/23/12 4:12 PM, Daniel Barcellos wrote: Imagine this simple examplo... we used to develop app for Oracle forms that runs over a oracle application server. If you need to install it you should obey a big list of requirement so that every thing under its control will run ok. Now we need to use and deploy software over Tomcat that is basically a free server. Where can I find those requirements? Tomcat by itself (well, with the JVM) can run in about 16MiB of Java heap. Your webapp will probably need a *whole* lot more than that. Tomcat is lean and mean. OAS is a beast that has higher minimal requirements, but I suspect that OAS all by itself can run in maybe 32MiB or 40MiB. The reason they tell you that you need 32GiB of heap space is because they want your app to work pretty much no matter what. Realistically, only you can determine what your requirements are. Start by giving the JVM plenty of heap space. Let's say 1GiB (if you have it) on a test bed. Then, deploy your webapp, force a few GCs (use jconsole or something else that allows you to do that) then check the memory usage: that's your baseline. You cannot possibly go below that and support even 0 users. Then, login a single user and go through a typical workflow. Repeat the GC/heap dance from above and see what the requirements are for a single user. Then try 10 users. Then 20 users. You can even graph them if you want to get fancy (which I recommend). I also recommend using a tool like JMeter to act as users. This will give you something repeatable and scalable (from a /load/ point of view). You might still be wrong about the heap space, because you may have huge transient requirements during a single transaction (for instance, you need to build an in-memory image, plot stuff against it, compress the image, etc.). You'll need to load-test your webapp in a test bed: that's the only way you can really know your requirements. The CPU speed is more difficult to pinpoint because realistically, any CPU will do, right? It's just a question of how long it takes to do stuff. So, you have to do all of the above (1 user, 10 users, 100 users) working constantly and checking the response time to see if it meets your targets. For instance, some people require that their response times are less than 500ms. For you, that might be more like 3000ms. You may have different targets for different transactions: choosing a chart template might need to be within 500ms but it's okay if the actual chart generation takes 10s. In case you aren't realizing it, yet: nobody can tell you what your own requirements are: you have to go figure them out yourself. If it makes you feel better, I can tell you what you need and I'm sure you'll be happy with the performance. Here goes: 1 IBM BladeCenter Chassis 4 IBM BladeCenter HSxx (you get to choose which ones) (You'll want a chassis with at least 8 blade slots: you'll need room to grow) Go for 1TiB per blade: you'll thank me later. You're definitely going to need a bank of SAS disks. Don't bother with elaborate RAID rigs or anything like that: just mirror everything because you don't want to waste time waiting for any RAID re-syncing. Or you could just fire the whole thing up on a laptop and beat the hell out of it. Your choice. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.17 (Darwin) Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlCHOHIACgkQ9CaO5/Lv0PA0hQCfeXBZPLpsaQl9uvLI2QKGQcwA 3NMAoLnjdE1dzgLwCedtMYwoPc12q7Pj =LdQW -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
