Re: documentation

2013-01-28 Thread Philippe Demaison
The community is very responsive.
Thanks you very much, the documentation will help us.

Philippe Demaison


2013/1/25 Martin Grigorov mgrigo...@apache.org

 Hi,

 I just pushed a new branch named 'reference-guide' to our Git repo.
 It contains the setup to write documentation and include code samples from
 wicket-examples project.
 This is just the first step. It will receive more updates.

 You can see how it looks at:
 http://martin-g.github.com/wicket-reference-guide/index.html

 If you feel that you know some area of Wicket better please be welcome to
 contribute!

 For now I'm going to move some documentation from
 http://wicket.apache.org/learn and the Wiki to this reference guide.

 On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Andrea Del Bene an.delb...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  For what it's worth :) I'm about to finish a free reference document for
  Wicket 6. I've started to write it almost one and a half years ago and it
  should be ready by the end of February.
  The example code used in the document are hosted here
  https://github.com/bitstorm/**Wicket-tutorial-examples
 https://github.com/bitstorm/Wicket-tutorial-examples
 
   This is great !
  I am looking forward to reading the new documentation.
 
  Best regards
  Phlippe
 
 
  2013/1/23 Rob Schroeder schrdrr...@gmail.com
 
   Hi all,
 
  On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:25:41 +0100, Guillaume Smet wrote:
 
   On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Philippe Demaison
  ph.demai...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Are you kidding ?
 
  First thing first, while everyone agrees that a good documentation is
  a good thing, you should consider that you don't pay anyone to write
  it.
 
  On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:08:35 +0100, Thies Edeling wrote:
 
   Wicket is open source, if you feel that the documentation is lacking -
 
  feel
 
  free to contribute.
 
  don't mean to offend anyone, but things like those are the least
 helpful
  kind of answers possible. We all know Wicket is open source, we all
 know
  what open source means, an we all know that we aren't paying anyone.
  It's just that if someone had the resources to pay anyone or
  significantly contribute to the documentation himself (*after* having
  learned everything he'd need, and after doing so *without* a complete
  reference), he'd probably not complain in the first place. More
 probable
  is that he's already got a job to do himself and is just looking for
 the
  best tool to do so.
 
  Of course, shouting abuse (not that I'd think anyone here did) at maybe
  even unsalaried developers who are doing what they can doesn't help,
  either.
 
  To add my experience to the subject, I bought the 'Wicket in Action'
  book some time ago, and for my first steps with Wicket 6 I tried to
  extract what I could from it and the Net.
 
  The problem is, just as Philippe said, much has changed between
  versions, and it's not only that things I find sometimes don't apply
  anymore, but, what's possibly worse, I can't even know whether code
  examples I find still work until I tried them myself, as the changes
  aren't really exhaustively documented and because, well, there is no
  such thing as a Wicket 6 reference.
 
  As far as I am concerned, I'll keep trying to get into Wicket 6, though
  - but that's something I'll be doing in my spare time, because I
  probably won't ever see Wicket used at my main job, and so I can take
 my
  time.
 
  Cheers,
  Robert
 
 
 
 
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 Martin Grigorov
 jWeekend
 Training, Consulting, Development
 http://jWeekend.com http://jweekend.com/



Re: documentation

2013-01-24 Thread Philippe Demaison
This is great !
I am looking forward to reading the new documentation.

Best regards
Phlippe


2013/1/23 Rob Schroeder schrdrr...@gmail.com

 Hi all,

 On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 18:25:41 +0100, Guillaume Smet wrote:

  On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Philippe Demaison
  ph.demai...@gmail.com wrote:
   Are you kidding ?
 
  First thing first, while everyone agrees that a good documentation is
  a good thing, you should consider that you don't pay anyone to write
  it.

 On Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:08:35 +0100, Thies Edeling wrote:

  Wicket is open source, if you feel that the documentation is lacking -
 feel
  free to contribute.

 don't mean to offend anyone, but things like those are the least helpful
 kind of answers possible. We all know Wicket is open source, we all know
 what open source means, an we all know that we aren't paying anyone.
 It's just that if someone had the resources to pay anyone or
 significantly contribute to the documentation himself (*after* having
 learned everything he'd need, and after doing so *without* a complete
 reference), he'd probably not complain in the first place. More probable
 is that he's already got a job to do himself and is just looking for the
 best tool to do so.

 Of course, shouting abuse (not that I'd think anyone here did) at maybe
 even unsalaried developers who are doing what they can doesn't help,
 either.

 To add my experience to the subject, I bought the 'Wicket in Action'
 book some time ago, and for my first steps with Wicket 6 I tried to
 extract what I could from it and the Net.

 The problem is, just as Philippe said, much has changed between
 versions, and it's not only that things I find sometimes don't apply
 anymore, but, what's possibly worse, I can't even know whether code
 examples I find still work until I tried them myself, as the changes
 aren't really exhaustively documented and because, well, there is no
 such thing as a Wicket 6 reference.

 As far as I am concerned, I'll keep trying to get into Wicket 6, though
 - but that's something I'll be doing in my spare time, because I
 probably won't ever see Wicket used at my main job, and so I can take my
 time.

 Cheers,
 Robert




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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org




Re: documentation

2013-01-23 Thread Philippe Demaison
If I had your knowledge and more time (project manager), I wish I could
help.

Best regards
Philippe


2013/1/22 Thies Edeling th...@rrm.net

 Wicket is open source, if you feel that the documentation is lacking - feel
 free to contribute.
 On Jan 22, 2013 5:54 PM, Philippe Demaison ph.demai...@gmail.com
 wrote:

  Hi Ondra and Kees,
 
  Are you kidding ?
 
  Are you saying that I need to
 
  - read a book released in 2009 covering wicket 1.3 ?
  - read http://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/index.html (for
 which
  wicket version ? )
  - read the Wicket Cookbook
  - read the migration from 1.x to 1.5
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-15.html
  - read the migration from 1.5 to 1.6
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-60.html
 
  to understand what are the Wicket's benefits and write a POC ?
 
 
  Are you saying that I need to google to read the best practices ?
 
  You know that framework adoption is linked to good documentation.
  Not only of course (quality are community are equally important) but
  documentation is essential.
 
  For example, I find these documentations much more appealing
 
  http://www.playframework.org/documentation/2.0.4/Home
  http://tapestry.apache.org/documentation.html
  https://developers.google.com/web-toolkit/doc/latest/DevGuide
  http://www.springsource.org/spring-framework#documentation
 
  Don't you ?
 
  Philippe
 
  2013/1/22 Ondrej Zizka ozi...@redhat.com
 
   Hi Phillipe,
  
   you're right, the documentation deserves improvements.
  
   I would recommend you to start with the Wicket in Action book. That
 will
   give you the basic concepts of Wicket.
   Then continue with the examples from http://www.wicket-library.com/**
   wicket-examples/index.html
  http://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/index.html. That will
  enforce what you learned in the book, and show more tricks.
   Then go through the Wicket Cookbook. That is a collection of solutions
  and
   best practices for common tasks.
   Then skim through https://cwiki.apache.org/**
   WICKET/migration-to-wicket-15.**html
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-15.html
   and https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/migration-to-wicket-60.**html
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-60.html.
  
   It is quite easy to create non-ajax websites. I only have dificulties
  once
   it gets to Ajax.
   In such cases, this mailing list is very useful, and also stackoverflow
   and the multitude of blogs.
  
   Not sure what are your other options, but e.g. I prefer Wicket over
 JSF.
   Even big JSF fans claim that JSF is marginally better.
  
   And last thing, I would recommend to try Wicket in combination with
 JBoss
   AS 7, which made my development quick and easy - redeployment in 3
  seconds,
   restart in 5 seconds, CDI, JPA and JAAS at hand, the Infinispan cache,
  easy
   management, ...
  
   my2c,
   Ondra
  
  
  
  
   On 01/22/2013 11:24 AM, Philippe Demaison wrote:
  
   Hi All,
  
   As Gabor Friedrich from the FAO, we are in my company, L'Oreal,
  comparing
   different web frameworks.
   Apache Wicket may be the best framework, may be usefull for my
 company,
  I
   don't know.
   I don't know because there is no clear documentation for a good
   evaluation.
  
   In fact the documentation is not good.
  
   The documentation is not up to date, not to say obsolete, not well
   organized and definitely not sexy.
   Sorry to being rude, I know this is difficult to do, but this is a
 major
   drawback when company and people evaluate Wicket.
  
   Some articles are for 1.4 or 1.5, not many for 6
   Some articles are redundant.
  
   I am sure the folowing structure could be improved :
   https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/framework-**documentation.html
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/framework-documentation.htmlis
   https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/index.html
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
   https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/documentation-index.**html
  https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/documentation-index.html
  
   The http://wicket.apache.org/ layout is good.
   Why not reorganize the documentation with this layout ?
  
   Managers want to see benefits, developpers want to learn fast(and have
   fun).
  
  
   I tested the mentionned blogs on http://wicket.apache.org/meet/**
   blogs.html http://wicket.apache.org/meet/blogs.html
  
   Here is what I found :
  
   Chillenious! - Eelco Hillenius - http://chillenious.wordpress.**com/
  http://chillenious.wordpress.com/
   last update : 2008
  
   Here be beasties - Al Maw - http://herebebeasties.com/
   last update : 2009
  
   Codierspiel - Nathan Hamblen (runs on Wicket) -
   http://code.technically.us/
   no a single wicket post
  
   Antwerkz - Justin Lee - http://antwerkz.com/wp/
   empty
  
   Geertjan - Geertjan Wielenga - http://blogs.sun.com/geertjan
   http 404 !
  
   Mystic Coders - Andrew Lombardi and
   Wicket by Example - Community driven are pointing

documentation

2013-01-22 Thread Philippe Demaison
Hi All,

As Gabor Friedrich from the FAO, we are in my company, L'Oreal, comparing
different web frameworks.
Apache Wicket may be the best framework, may be usefull for my company, I
don't know.
I don't know because there is no clear documentation for a good evaluation.

In fact the documentation is not good.

The documentation is not up to date, not to say obsolete, not well
organized and definitely not sexy.
Sorry to being rude, I know this is difficult to do, but this is a major
drawback when company and people evaluate Wicket.

Some articles are for 1.4 or 1.5, not many for 6
Some articles are redundant.

I am sure the folowing structure could be improved :
https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/framework-documentation.html is
https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/documentation-index.html

The http://wicket.apache.org/ layout is good.
Why not reorganize the documentation with this layout ?

Managers want to see benefits, developpers want to learn fast(and have fun).


I tested the mentionned blogs on http://wicket.apache.org/meet/blogs.html

Here is what I found :

Chillenious! - Eelco Hillenius - http://chillenious.wordpress.com/
last update : 2008

Here be beasties - Al Maw - http://herebebeasties.com/
last update : 2009

Codierspiel - Nathan Hamblen (runs on Wicket) - http://code.technically.us/
no a single wicket post

Antwerkz - Justin Lee - http://antwerkz.com/wp/
empty

Geertjan - Geertjan Wielenga - http://blogs.sun.com/geertjan
http 404 !

Mystic Coders - Andrew Lombardi and
Wicket by Example - Community driven are pointing to the same address :
http://www.mysticcoders.com/blog/


For a wider adoption of Wicket,
Best regards to all of you

Philippe Demaison


Re: documentation

2013-01-22 Thread Philippe Demaison
Hi Ondra and Kees,

Are you kidding ?

Are you saying that I need to

- read a book released in 2009 covering wicket 1.3 ?
- read http://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/index.html (for which
wicket version ? )
- read the Wicket Cookbook
- read the migration from 1.x to 1.5
https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-15.html
- read the migration from 1.5 to 1.6
https://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-60.html

to understand what are the Wicket's benefits and write a POC ?


Are you saying that I need to google to read the best practices ?

You know that framework adoption is linked to good documentation.
Not only of course (quality are community are equally important) but
documentation is essential.

For example, I find these documentations much more appealing

http://www.playframework.org/documentation/2.0.4/Home
http://tapestry.apache.org/documentation.html
https://developers.google.com/web-toolkit/doc/latest/DevGuide
http://www.springsource.org/spring-framework#documentation

Don't you ?

Philippe

2013/1/22 Ondrej Zizka ozi...@redhat.com

 Hi Phillipe,

 you're right, the documentation deserves improvements.

 I would recommend you to start with the Wicket in Action book. That will
 give you the basic concepts of Wicket.
 Then continue with the examples from http://www.wicket-library.com/**
 wicket-examples/index.htmlhttp://www.wicket-library.com/wicket-examples/index.html.
  That will enforce what you learned in the book, and show more tricks.
 Then go through the Wicket Cookbook. That is a collection of solutions and
 best practices for common tasks.
 Then skim through https://cwiki.apache.org/**
 WICKET/migration-to-wicket-15.**htmlhttps://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-15.html
 and 
 https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/migration-to-wicket-60.**htmlhttps://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/migration-to-wicket-60.html.

 It is quite easy to create non-ajax websites. I only have dificulties once
 it gets to Ajax.
 In such cases, this mailing list is very useful, and also stackoverflow
 and the multitude of blogs.

 Not sure what are your other options, but e.g. I prefer Wicket over JSF.
 Even big JSF fans claim that JSF is marginally better.

 And last thing, I would recommend to try Wicket in combination with JBoss
 AS 7, which made my development quick and easy - redeployment in 3 seconds,
 restart in 5 seconds, CDI, JPA and JAAS at hand, the Infinispan cache, easy
 management, ...

 my2c,
 Ondra




 On 01/22/2013 11:24 AM, Philippe Demaison wrote:

 Hi All,

 As Gabor Friedrich from the FAO, we are in my company, L'Oreal, comparing
 different web frameworks.
 Apache Wicket may be the best framework, may be usefull for my company, I
 don't know.
 I don't know because there is no clear documentation for a good
 evaluation.

 In fact the documentation is not good.

 The documentation is not up to date, not to say obsolete, not well
 organized and definitely not sexy.
 Sorry to being rude, I know this is difficult to do, but this is a major
 drawback when company and people evaluate Wicket.

 Some articles are for 1.4 or 1.5, not many for 6
 Some articles are redundant.

 I am sure the folowing structure could be improved :
 https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/framework-**documentation.htmlhttps://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/framework-documentation.htmlis
 https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/index.htmlhttps://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/index.html
 https://cwiki.apache.org/**WICKET/documentation-index.**htmlhttps://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/documentation-index.html

 The http://wicket.apache.org/ layout is good.
 Why not reorganize the documentation with this layout ?

 Managers want to see benefits, developpers want to learn fast(and have
 fun).


 I tested the mentionned blogs on http://wicket.apache.org/meet/**
 blogs.html http://wicket.apache.org/meet/blogs.html

 Here is what I found :

 Chillenious! - Eelco Hillenius - 
 http://chillenious.wordpress.**com/http://chillenious.wordpress.com/
 last update : 2008

 Here be beasties - Al Maw - http://herebebeasties.com/
 last update : 2009

 Codierspiel - Nathan Hamblen (runs on Wicket) -
 http://code.technically.us/
 no a single wicket post

 Antwerkz - Justin Lee - http://antwerkz.com/wp/
 empty

 Geertjan - Geertjan Wielenga - http://blogs.sun.com/geertjan
 http 404 !

 Mystic Coders - Andrew Lombardi and
 Wicket by Example - Community driven are pointing to the same address :
 http://www.mysticcoders.com/**blog/ http://www.mysticcoders.com/blog/


 For a wider adoption of Wicket,
 Best regards to all of you

 Philippe Demaison