Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Jürgen Lind

Hi,

I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation that I have
been unable to fix until now:

1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login page
3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits very long,
   a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I would like
to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a session
is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I avoid this
behavior?

Kind Regards,

Jürgen

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Igor Vaynberg
use a stateless form

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation that I
 have
 been unable to fix until now:

 1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
 2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login page
 3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits very
 long,
   a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

 As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I would
 like
 to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a
 session
 is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I avoid
 this
 behavior?

 Kind Regards,

 Jürgen

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Jürgen Lind

Hi,

I tried using a stateless form for the Login page, but it seems that a new
session is created before the page is even called. I inserted a stacktrack
output in the constructor of my Wicket-Session (which happens to be s subclass
of AuthenticatedWebSession)  and that trace shows me that
AuthenticatedWebApplication.newSession is called by wicket somewhere in the
application lifecycle.

I can reproduce the behavior by adding a logout link that invalidates the
current  session and redirects to the Homepage (implying a redirect to the Login
page). Again, a new session is created immediately by wicket. Any clues?

J.

Igor Vaynberg wrote:

use a stateless form

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,

I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation that I
have
been unable to fix until now:

1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login page
3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits very
long,
  a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I would
like
to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a
session
is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I avoid
this
behavior?

Kind Regards,

Jürgen

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Jürgen Lind

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Igor Vaynberg
wicket will create session instances for every request if there is no
session stored in httpsession. the session is stored into httpsession
only when the user encounters a stateful page.

i am guessing that since you changed the form to stateless the page
itself is no longer stateful and so wicket will not save it into
session, thus it creates an interim session for the duration of the
request.

if you want to manually bind the session then call bind() on it.

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 I tried using a stateless form for the Login page, but it seems that a new
 session is created before the page is even called. I inserted a stacktrack
 output in the constructor of my Wicket-Session (which happens to be s
 subclass
 of AuthenticatedWebSession)  and that trace shows me that
 AuthenticatedWebApplication.newSession is called by wicket somewhere in the
 application lifecycle.

 I can reproduce the behavior by adding a logout link that invalidates the
 current  session and redirects to the Homepage (implying a redirect to the
 Login
 page). Again, a new session is created immediately by wicket. Any clues?

 J.

 Igor Vaynberg wrote:

 use a stateless form

 -igor

 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation that
 I
 have
 been unable to fix until now:

 1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
 2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login page
 3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits very
 long,
  a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

 As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I would
 like
 to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a
 session
 is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I avoid
 this
 behavior?

 Kind Regards,

 Jürgen

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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 --
 Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

 Jürgen Lind

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Jürgen Lind

Hi Igor,

thanks for your support. Still I am a bit confused about the two types
of sessions we are dealing with: as far as I understood, there is a wicket
session that is stored within the http session of the container. Now, which
session is responsible for the Page Expired situations? The Wicket session
or the http session? If it would be the http session then it should not matter
whether a wicket session is created or not as long as the wicket session is
not bound to a http session, right? BTW: for not wasting your time, any links
to documentation on the matter would be great as well. I looked through the
wicket docs but did not find anything relevant.

Cheers,

J.

Igor Vaynberg wrote:

wicket will create session instances for every request if there is no
session stored in httpsession. the session is stored into httpsession
only when the user encounters a stateful page.

i am guessing that since you changed the form to stateless the page
itself is no longer stateful and so wicket will not save it into
session, thus it creates an interim session for the duration of the
request.

if you want to manually bind the session then call bind() on it.

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi,

I tried using a stateless form for the Login page, but it seems that a new
session is created before the page is even called. I inserted a stacktrack
output in the constructor of my Wicket-Session (which happens to be s
subclass
of AuthenticatedWebSession)  and that trace shows me that
AuthenticatedWebApplication.newSession is called by wicket somewhere in the
application lifecycle.

I can reproduce the behavior by adding a logout link that invalidates the
current  session and redirects to the Homepage (implying a redirect to the
Login
page). Again, a new session is created immediately by wicket. Any clues?

J.

Igor Vaynberg wrote:

use a stateless form

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Hi,

I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation that
I
have
been unable to fix until now:

1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login page
3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits very
long,
 a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I would
like
to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a
session
is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I avoid
this
behavior?

Kind Regards,

Jürgen

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Jürgen Lind

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Jürgen Lind

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Igor Vaynberg
once the wicket sesson object is bound (stored in httpsesson) their
lifecycles are the same. it is httpsession timing out that causes page
expired errors.

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Igor,

 thanks for your support. Still I am a bit confused about the two types
 of sessions we are dealing with: as far as I understood, there is a wicket
 session that is stored within the http session of the container. Now, which
 session is responsible for the Page Expired situations? The Wicket session
 or the http session? If it would be the http session then it should not
 matter
 whether a wicket session is created or not as long as the wicket session is
 not bound to a http session, right? BTW: for not wasting your time, any
 links
 to documentation on the matter would be great as well. I looked through the
 wicket docs but did not find anything relevant.

 Cheers,

 J.

 Igor Vaynberg wrote:

 wicket will create session instances for every request if there is no
 session stored in httpsession. the session is stored into httpsession
 only when the user encounters a stateful page.

 i am guessing that since you changed the form to stateless the page
 itself is no longer stateful and so wicket will not save it into
 session, thus it creates an interim session for the duration of the
 request.

 if you want to manually bind the session then call bind() on it.

 -igor

 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I tried using a stateless form for the Login page, but it seems that a
 new
 session is created before the page is even called. I inserted a
 stacktrack
 output in the constructor of my Wicket-Session (which happens to be s
 subclass
 of AuthenticatedWebSession)  and that trace shows me that
 AuthenticatedWebApplication.newSession is called by wicket somewhere in
 the
 application lifecycle.

 I can reproduce the behavior by adding a logout link that invalidates
 the
 current  session and redirects to the Homepage (implying a redirect to
 the
 Login
 page). Again, a new session is created immediately by wicket. Any clues?

 J.

 Igor Vaynberg wrote:

 use a stateless form

 -igor

 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation
 that
 I
 have
 been unable to fix until now:

 1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
 2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login
 page
 3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits
 very
 long,
  a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

 As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I
 would
 like
 to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a
 session
 is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I
 avoid
 this
 behavior?

 Kind Regards,

 Jürgen

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf
 Menzel


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 --
 Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

 Jürgen Lind

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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 --
 Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

 Jürgen Lind

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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For additional 

Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Jürgen Lind

Hi,

thanks again for your help, replacing the form by the stateless form has done
the job as I could verify by lowering the http session timeout. What I still do
not fully understand is why the error has now disappeared because still a full
http session is created as I can see from the Tomcat Management Console. Anyway,
perhaps I will take me some time to figure it out by looking into the source...

Thanks,

J.

Igor Vaynberg wrote:

once the wicket sesson object is bound (stored in httpsesson) their
lifecycles are the same. it is httpsession timing out that causes page
expired errors.

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hi Igor,

thanks for your support. Still I am a bit confused about the two types
of sessions we are dealing with: as far as I understood, there is a wicket
session that is stored within the http session of the container. Now, which
session is responsible for the Page Expired situations? The Wicket session
or the http session? If it would be the http session then it should not
matter
whether a wicket session is created or not as long as the wicket session is
not bound to a http session, right? BTW: for not wasting your time, any
links
to documentation on the matter would be great as well. I looked through the
wicket docs but did not find anything relevant.

Cheers,

J.

Igor Vaynberg wrote:

wicket will create session instances for every request if there is no
session stored in httpsession. the session is stored into httpsession
only when the user encounters a stateful page.

i am guessing that since you changed the form to stateless the page
itself is no longer stateful and so wicket will not save it into
session, thus it creates an interim session for the duration of the
request.

if you want to manually bind the session then call bind() on it.

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Hi,

I tried using a stateless form for the Login page, but it seems that a
new
session is created before the page is even called. I inserted a
stacktrack
output in the constructor of my Wicket-Session (which happens to be s
subclass
of AuthenticatedWebSession)  and that trace shows me that
AuthenticatedWebApplication.newSession is called by wicket somewhere in
the
application lifecycle.

I can reproduce the behavior by adding a logout link that invalidates
the
current  session and redirects to the Homepage (implying a redirect to
the
Login
page). Again, a new session is created immediately by wicket. Any clues?

J.

Igor Vaynberg wrote:

use a stateless form

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Hi,

I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation
that
I
have
been unable to fix until now:

1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login
page
3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits
very
long,
 a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I
would
like
to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that a
session
is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I
avoid
this
behavior?

Kind Regards,

Jürgen

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf
Menzel


-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Jürgen Lind

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf Menzel


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--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Jürgen Lind

--
Dr. Jürgen Lind
iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark 

Re: Session Creation Problem

2008-06-20 Thread Igor Vaynberg
stateless form generates a bookmarkable action url so the page
instance is recreated when the form submits rather then pulled from
session.

-igor

On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi,

 thanks again for your help, replacing the form by the stateless form has
 done
 the job as I could verify by lowering the http session timeout. What I still
 do
 not fully understand is why the error has now disappeared because still a
 full
 http session is created as I can see from the Tomcat Management Console.
 Anyway,
 perhaps I will take me some time to figure it out by looking into the
 source...

 Thanks,

 J.

 Igor Vaynberg wrote:

 once the wicket sesson object is bound (stored in httpsesson) their
 lifecycles are the same. it is httpsession timing out that causes page
 expired errors.

 -igor

 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 9:08 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi Igor,

 thanks for your support. Still I am a bit confused about the two types
 of sessions we are dealing with: as far as I understood, there is a
 wicket
 session that is stored within the http session of the container. Now,
 which
 session is responsible for the Page Expired situations? The Wicket
 session
 or the http session? If it would be the http session then it should not
 matter
 whether a wicket session is created or not as long as the wicket session
 is
 not bound to a http session, right? BTW: for not wasting your time, any
 links
 to documentation on the matter would be great as well. I looked through
 the
 wicket docs but did not find anything relevant.

 Cheers,

 J.

 Igor Vaynberg wrote:

 wicket will create session instances for every request if there is no
 session stored in httpsession. the session is stored into httpsession
 only when the user encounters a stateful page.

 i am guessing that since you changed the form to stateless the page
 itself is no longer stateful and so wicket will not save it into
 session, thus it creates an interim session for the duration of the
 request.

 if you want to manually bind the session then call bind() on it.

 -igor

 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Jürgen Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I tried using a stateless form for the Login page, but it seems that a
 new
 session is created before the page is even called. I inserted a
 stacktrack
 output in the constructor of my Wicket-Session (which happens to be s
 subclass
 of AuthenticatedWebSession)  and that trace shows me that
 AuthenticatedWebApplication.newSession is called by wicket somewhere in
 the
 application lifecycle.

 I can reproduce the behavior by adding a logout link that invalidates
 the
 current  session and redirects to the Homepage (implying a redirect to
 the
 Login
 page). Again, a new session is created immediately by wicket. Any
 clues?

 J.

 Igor Vaynberg wrote:

 use a stateless form

 -igor

 On Fri, Jun 20, 2008 at 1:21 AM, Jürgen Lind
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Hi,

 I am facing a little annoyance in conjunction with session creation
 that
 I
 have
 been unable to fix until now:

 1. My pages are guarded using MetaDataRoleAuthorizationStrategy
 2. When the homepage is opened, the user is redirected to the Login
 page
 3. Now, if the user does not fill out the form immediately but waits
 very
 long,
  a Page Expired error is thrown when the form is submitted

 As I said, this is not a big problem but rather an annoyance that I
 would
 like
 to have fixed. Can anybody tell me what the problem is? I assume that
 a
 session
 is created immediately when the user opens the home page. How can I
 avoid
 this
 behavior?

 Kind Regards,

 Jürgen

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf
 Menzel


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 --
 Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

 Jürgen Lind

 --
 Dr. Jürgen Lind
 iteratec GmbHFon: +49 (0)89 614551-44
 Inselkammerstrasse 4 Fax: +49 (0)89 614551-10
 82008 Unterhaching   Web: www.iteratec.de

 Sitz und Registergericht der iteratec GmbH: München HRB 113 519
 Geschäftsführer: Klaus Eberhardt, Mark Goerke, Inge Hanschke, Ralf
 Menzel


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