Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-22 Thread Sam Stainsby
Thanks Adrian for sending through the details.

We are now also looking at Apache Geronimo that has some interesting 
features for plugins.

Thanks all,
Sam.
 
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 17:26:03 +0200, Adrian Wiesmann wrote:


 Ping me offline for details since this is very much non-Wicket stuff.
 
 Cheers,
 Adrian
 
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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Sam Stainsby
Providing modules for others. And also providing an environment for third-
party modules. See for example:

https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:29:51 +0300, Martin Makundi wrote:

 What are you aiming at? Providing modules to others or building software
 to your client/own company?
 
 In my opinnion modules are good for the public but not for internal /
 sophisticated (=educated) use.
 
 **
 Martin
 
 2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
 I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in asking
 this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle application add-
 ons (or plug-ins or modules).

 I'm interested in emulating what happens in the Zope/Plone world (which
 is where I've come from). In the case of Zope, you have a tool called
 'buildout' and configuration file (buildout.cfg) where you can, among
 other things, tell buildout what modules/plug-ins you want to install.
 You then run the buildout script, which will take care of finding
 dependencies, downloading your modules and dependencies and installing
 them into the right place. Then the next time you run Zope, those
 modules are available.

 Buildout used in this way is a tool used by sys admins after you have
 deployed your Zope instance. A concrete example might be to add LDAP
 authentication to Zope - this would involve using buildout to install
 the correct modules, and then going into Zope and configuring the LDAP
 components. I know it sounds very much like maven, and perhaps maven
 can be used in this way. But generally I have considered maven to be a
 developer tool - at least that is how I use it.

 In my current case, I have created a web application framework built
 using Wicket. I want to have a core component and the add-ons/plug-ins
 such as LDAP authentication, CMS components, etc. that can be installed
 easily into a generic Granite deployment.

 Does that makes sense? How have Wicket people approached this?

 Buidlout can also build and install modules you are developing, as well
 as configure parts of Zope (such as the timezone). Sometime you just
 use buildout to upgrade your modules. I'm interested in approaches that
 encompass that as well. I'm not to fussed about having to restart the
 server.


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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Martin Makundi
Different form wicket-stuff?

http://wicketstuff.org/confluence/display/STUFFWEB/Home

**
Martin

2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
 Providing modules for others. And also providing an environment for third-
 party modules. See for example:

 https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/

 On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:29:51 +0300, Martin Makundi wrote:

 What are you aiming at? Providing modules to others or building software
 to your client/own company?

 In my opinnion modules are good for the public but not for internal /
 sophisticated (=educated) use.

 **
 Martin

 2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
 I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in asking
 this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle application add-
 ons (or plug-ins or modules).

 I'm interested in emulating what happens in the Zope/Plone world (which
 is where I've come from). In the case of Zope, you have a tool called
 'buildout' and configuration file (buildout.cfg) where you can, among
 other things, tell buildout what modules/plug-ins you want to install.
 You then run the buildout script, which will take care of finding
 dependencies, downloading your modules and dependencies and installing
 them into the right place. Then the next time you run Zope, those
 modules are available.

 Buildout used in this way is a tool used by sys admins after you have
 deployed your Zope instance. A concrete example might be to add LDAP
 authentication to Zope - this would involve using buildout to install
 the correct modules, and then going into Zope and configuring the LDAP
 components. I know it sounds very much like maven, and perhaps maven
 can be used in this way. But generally I have considered maven to be a
 developer tool - at least that is how I use it.

 In my current case, I have created a web application framework built
 using Wicket. I want to have a core component and the add-ons/plug-ins
 such as LDAP authentication, CMS components, etc. that can be installed
 easily into a generic Granite deployment.

 Does that makes sense? How have Wicket people approached this?

 Buidlout can also build and install modules you are developing, as well
 as configure parts of Zope (such as the timezone). Sometime you just
 use buildout to upgrade your modules. I'm interested in approaches that
 encompass that as well. I'm not to fussed about having to restart the
 server.


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For
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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Per Lundholm
Well, plug-ins, are they compile-time or run-time?  Sounds like compile-time
from your description.

Also, from your description, it sounds that it is more than web-tier.
Remember Wicket is web-tier only.

There are solutions for the server tier for plug-ins. Look att OSGi
http://www.osgi.org and ESB.

/Per

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 8:08 AM, Martin Makundi 
martin.maku...@koodaripalvelut.com wrote:

 Different form wicket-stuff?

 http://wicketstuff.org/confluence/display/STUFFWEB/Home

 **
 Martin

 2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
  Providing modules for others. And also providing an environment for
 third-
  party modules. See for example:
 
  https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/
 
  On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:29:51 +0300, Martin Makundi wrote:
 
  What are you aiming at? Providing modules to others or building software
  to your client/own company?
 
  In my opinnion modules are good for the public but not for internal /
  sophisticated (=educated) use.
 
  **
  Martin
 
  2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
  I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in asking
  this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle application add-
  ons (or plug-ins or modules).
 
  I'm interested in emulating what happens in the Zope/Plone world (which
  is where I've come from). In the case of Zope, you have a tool called
  'buildout' and configuration file (buildout.cfg) where you can, among
  other things, tell buildout what modules/plug-ins you want to install.
  You then run the buildout script, which will take care of finding
  dependencies, downloading your modules and dependencies and installing
  them into the right place. Then the next time you run Zope, those
  modules are available.
 
  Buildout used in this way is a tool used by sys admins after you have
  deployed your Zope instance. A concrete example might be to add LDAP
  authentication to Zope - this would involve using buildout to install
  the correct modules, and then going into Zope and configuring the LDAP
  components. I know it sounds very much like maven, and perhaps maven
  can be used in this way. But generally I have considered maven to be a
  developer tool - at least that is how I use it.
 
  In my current case, I have created a web application framework built
  using Wicket. I want to have a core component and the add-ons/plug-ins
  such as LDAP authentication, CMS components, etc. that can be installed
  easily into a generic Granite deployment.
 
  Does that makes sense? How have Wicket people approached this?
 
  Buidlout can also build and install modules you are developing, as well
  as configure parts of Zope (such as the timezone). Sometime you just
  use buildout to upgrade your modules. I'm interested in approaches that
  encompass that as well. I'm not to fussed about having to restart the
  server.
 
 
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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Sam Stainsby
Yes, different because I'm not talking about a collection of components 
per se, but how add-on components are deployed to an already running 
application by systems administrators, not developers, as per my initial 
post.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:08:38 +0300, Martin Makundi wrote:

 Different form wicket-stuff?
 
 http://wicketstuff.org/confluence/display/STUFFWEB/Home
 
 **
 Martin
 
 2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
 Providing modules for others. And also providing an environment for
 third- party modules. See for example:

 https://svn.plone.org/svn/collective/

 On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 08:29:51 +0300, Martin Makundi wrote:

 What are you aiming at? Providing modules to others or building
 software to your client/own company?

 In my opinnion modules are good for the public but not for internal /
 sophisticated (=educated) use.

 **
 Martin

 2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
 I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in
 asking this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle
 application add- ons (or plug-ins or modules).

 I'm interested in emulating what happens in the Zope/Plone world
 (which is where I've come from). In the case of Zope, you have a tool
 called 'buildout' and configuration file (buildout.cfg) where you
 can, among other things, tell buildout what modules/plug-ins you want
 to install. You then run the buildout script, which will take care of
 finding dependencies, downloading your modules and dependencies and
 installing them into the right place. Then the next time you run
 Zope, those modules are available.

 Buildout used in this way is a tool used by sys admins after you have
 deployed your Zope instance. A concrete example might be to add LDAP
 authentication to Zope - this would involve using buildout to install
 the correct modules, and then going into Zope and configuring the
 LDAP components. I know it sounds very much like maven, and perhaps
 maven can be used in this way. But generally I have considered maven
 to be a developer tool - at least that is how I use it.

 In my current case, I have created a web application framework built
 using Wicket. I want to have a core component and the
 add-ons/plug-ins such as LDAP authentication, CMS components, etc.
 that can be installed easily into a generic Granite deployment.

 Does that makes sense? How have Wicket people approached this?

 Buidlout can also build and install modules you are developing, as
 well as configure parts of Zope (such as the timezone). Sometime you
 just use buildout to upgrade your modules. I'm interested in
 approaches that encompass that as well. I'm not to fussed about
 having to restart the server.


 -
 To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For
 additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org



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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Sam Stainsby
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:10:57 +0200, Per Lundholm wrote:

 Well, plug-ins, are they compile-time or run-time?  Sounds like
 compile-time from your description.

Runtime I think if I understand you correctly. Suppose a sys admin has 
already deployed the war file for the core application and wants to add 
some functions.

 Also, from your description, it sounds that it is more than web-tier.
 Remember Wicket is web-tier only.
 
 There are solutions for the server tier for plug-ins. Look att OSGi
 http://www.osgi.org and ESB.

It could well be more than web-tier, but I thought if anyone has done 
this is would be a Wicket user :-) I looked at OSGi before I started my 
framework. I didn't see anything about deployment of add-ons/plug-ins. I 
already have a framework that incorporates IoC as a fundamental feature. 
Its the actual deployment of add-on functionality that interests me. ESB 
on first glance looks way too complicated, and I'm not sure it even does 
what I want.


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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Linda van der Pal
Seeing how it looks like you want to create your own CMS, you might want 
to have a look at Hippo CMS. They've built it in Wicket AFAIK.


Regards,
Linda

Sam Stainsby wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 09:10:57 +0200, Per Lundholm wrote:

  

Well, plug-ins, are they compile-time or run-time?  Sounds like
compile-time from your description.



Runtime I think if I understand you correctly. Suppose a sys admin has 
already deployed the war file for the core application and wants to add 
some functions.


  

Also, from your description, it sounds that it is more than web-tier.
Remember Wicket is web-tier only.

There are solutions for the server tier for plug-ins. Look att OSGi
http://www.osgi.org and ESB.



It could well be more than web-tier, but I thought if anyone has done 
this is would be a Wicket user :-) I looked at OSGi before I started my 
framework. I didn't see anything about deployment of add-ons/plug-ins. I 
already have a framework that incorporates IoC as a fundamental feature. 
Its the actual deployment of add-on functionality that interests me. ESB 
on first glance looks way too complicated, and I'm not sure it even does 
what I want.



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For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
  




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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Olger Warnier

Hi Sam,


It could well be more than web-tier, but I thought if anyone has done
this is would be a Wicket user :-) I looked at OSGi before I started  
my
framework. I didn't see anything about deployment of add-ons/plug- 
ins. I
already have a framework that incorporates IoC as a fundamental  
feature.
Its the actual deployment of add-on functionality that interests me.  
ESB
on first glance looks way too complicated, and I'm not sure it even  
does

what I want.

In our project we use OSGI to get a plugin structure. Interfaces  
defined in the 'core' layer are implemented in OSGI modules.
For a simple example see: http://www.joiningtracks.org/svn/his/trunk/questionnaire/ 
 (SVN code repo)
It's a questionnaire service that uses OSGI to load the question forms  
(based on wicket)


Our whole platform is constructed like that, the questionnaire service  
is the most simple one and easily adapted for your own use.


Kind Regards,

Olger


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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Sam Stainsby
On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:25:17 +0200, Linda van der Pal wrote:

 Seeing how it looks like you want to create your own CMS, you might want
 to have a look at Hippo CMS. They've built it in Wicket AFAIK.

I've seen Hippo, but my main aim is not to create a CMS. One of my goal 
applications is more to do with identity management, but that's another 
story. However, I used CM as an example of something that could be added 
to the core framework. 


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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Sam Stainsby
OK, so I am an sys admin running some sort of OSGI-based application and 
now I want to add your questionnaire service and any other modules that 
it depends on. I also want to occasionally check for version updates. I 
want these updates and dependencies to be downloaded and put in the 
correct place for me so that when I restart the application, they are 
loaded. How do I do that? If it were Zope, I would add one line to a 
'buildout.cfg' file and run the 'buildout' script, and restart Zope.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:33:45 +0200, Olger Warnier wrote:

 In our project we use OSGI to get a plugin structure. Interfaces defined
 in the 'core' layer are implemented in OSGI modules. For a simple
 example see: http://www.joiningtracks.org/svn/his/trunk/questionnaire/
   (SVN code repo)
 It's a questionnaire service that uses OSGI to load the question forms
 (based on wicket)
 
 Our whole platform is constructed like that, the questionnaire service
 is the most simple one and easily adapted for your own use.



-
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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Olger Warnier

Hi Sam,

How we do it with that service:

We have a file listener class  that checks if OSGI based jar files are  
put in a directory.
If so, these are automatically deployed to the OSGI runtime by the  
BundleDeployer class.
We miss a download / version updates part, but you could add that by  
downloading to the directory specfified by the FileListener.


There is no need to restart, OSGI updates the whole automatically (we  
use embedded felix for this).
Something to keep in mind, be careful with the OSGI versioning in this  
as that puts versions next to eachother.


This is used to provide custom, for our project - wicket based, user  
interface functionality.


Kind Regards,

Olger


On 20 jul 2009, at 12:51, Sam Stainsby wrote:

OK, so I am an sys admin running some sort of OSGI-based application  
and
now I want to add your questionnaire service and any other modules  
that
it depends on. I also want to occasionally check for version  
updates. I

want these updates and dependencies to be downloaded and put in the
correct place for me so that when I restart the application, they are
loaded. How do I do that? If it were Zope, I would add one line to a
'buildout.cfg' file and run the 'buildout' script, and restart Zope.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:33:45 +0200, Olger Warnier wrote:

In our project we use OSGI to get a plugin structure. Interfaces  
defined

in the 'core' layer are implemented in OSGI modules. For a simple
example see: http://www.joiningtracks.org/svn/his/trunk/ 
questionnaire/

 (SVN code repo)
It's a questionnaire service that uses OSGI to load the question  
forms

(based on wicket)

Our whole platform is constructed like that, the questionnaire  
service

is the most simple one and easily adapted for your own use.




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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Sam Stainsby
Thanks Olger, that gives me some ideas. I wonder if a maven could somehow 
be coerced to do the dependency/downloading part, perhaps with some new 
plugin.

On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:39:10 +0200, Olger Warnier wrote:

 Hi Sam,
 
 How we do it with that service:
 
 We have a file listener class  that checks if OSGI based jar files are
 put in a directory.
 If so, these are automatically deployed to the OSGI runtime by the
 BundleDeployer class.
 We miss a download / version updates part, but you could add that by
 downloading to the directory specfified by the FileListener.
 
 There is no need to restart, OSGI updates the whole automatically (we
 use embedded felix for this).
 Something to keep in mind, be careful with the OSGI versioning in this
 as that puts versions next to eachother.
 
 This is used to provide custom, for our project - wicket based, user
 interface functionality.
 
 Kind Regards,
 
 Olger
 
 
 On 20 jul 2009, at 12:51, Sam Stainsby wrote:
 
 OK, so I am an sys admin running some sort of OSGI-based application
 and
 now I want to add your questionnaire service and any other modules that
 it depends on. I also want to occasionally check for version updates. I
 want these updates and dependencies to be downloaded and put in the
 correct place for me so that when I restart the application, they are
 loaded. How do I do that? If it were Zope, I would add one line to a
 'buildout.cfg' file and run the 'buildout' script, and restart Zope.

 On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:33:45 +0200, Olger Warnier wrote:

 In our project we use OSGI to get a plugin structure. Interfaces
 defined
 in the 'core' layer are implemented in OSGI modules. For a simple
 example see: http://www.joiningtracks.org/svn/his/trunk/
 questionnaire/
  (SVN code repo)
 It's a questionnaire service that uses OSGI to load the question forms
 (based on wicket)

 Our whole platform is constructed like that, the questionnaire service
 is the most simple one and easily adapted for your own use.



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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Ben Tilford
I think maven 3 is supposed to allow using OSGi bundles for versioning etc..

On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Sam Stainsby 
s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au wrote:

 Thanks Olger, that gives me some ideas. I wonder if a maven could somehow
 be coerced to do the dependency/downloading part, perhaps with some new
 plugin.

 On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 13:39:10 +0200, Olger Warnier wrote:

  Hi Sam,
 
  How we do it with that service:
 
  We have a file listener class  that checks if OSGI based jar files are
  put in a directory.
  If so, these are automatically deployed to the OSGI runtime by the
  BundleDeployer class.
  We miss a download / version updates part, but you could add that by
  downloading to the directory specfified by the FileListener.
 
  There is no need to restart, OSGI updates the whole automatically (we
  use embedded felix for this).
  Something to keep in mind, be careful with the OSGI versioning in this
  as that puts versions next to eachother.
 
  This is used to provide custom, for our project - wicket based, user
  interface functionality.
 
  Kind Regards,
 
  Olger
 
 
  On 20 jul 2009, at 12:51, Sam Stainsby wrote:
 
  OK, so I am an sys admin running some sort of OSGI-based application
  and
  now I want to add your questionnaire service and any other modules that
  it depends on. I also want to occasionally check for version updates. I
  want these updates and dependencies to be downloaded and put in the
  correct place for me so that when I restart the application, they are
  loaded. How do I do that? If it were Zope, I would add one line to a
  'buildout.cfg' file and run the 'buildout' script, and restart Zope.
 
  On Mon, 20 Jul 2009 10:33:45 +0200, Olger Warnier wrote:
 
  In our project we use OSGI to get a plugin structure. Interfaces
  defined
  in the 'core' layer are implemented in OSGI modules. For a simple
  example see: http://www.joiningtracks.org/svn/his/trunk/
  questionnaire/
   (SVN code repo)
  It's a questionnaire service that uses OSGI to load the question forms
  (based on wicket)
 
  Our whole platform is constructed like that, the questionnaire service
  is the most simple one and easily adapted for your own use.
 
 
 
  -
  To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For
  additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
 
 
 
  - To
  unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional
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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-20 Thread Adrian Wiesmann
Hi Sam

 I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in asking 
 this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle application add-
 ons (or plug-ins or modules).

What I (we) did was to imitate what Eclipse does. Defining hooks and
having plugins attach to these hooks (and even define new hooks). We did
this using a mixture of XML, Java, Script and DB tables. While we started
with Swing, we ported this to Wicket as well.

Our reason for doing so sounds similar to your thoughts: Deploying a core
application and having other (third party) developers add, change and
enhance to the core application.

Ping me offline for details since this is very much non-Wicket stuff.

Cheers,
Adrian

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best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-19 Thread Sam Stainsby
I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in asking 
this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle application add-
ons (or plug-ins or modules).

I'm interested in emulating what happens in the Zope/Plone world (which 
is where I've come from). In the case of Zope, you have a tool called 
'buildout' and configuration file (buildout.cfg) where you can, among 
other things, tell buildout what modules/plug-ins you want to install. 
You then run the buildout script, which will take care of finding 
dependencies, downloading your modules and dependencies and installing 
them into the right place. Then the next time you run Zope, those modules 
are available.

Buildout used in this way is a tool used by sys admins after you have 
deployed your Zope instance. A concrete example might be to add LDAP 
authentication to Zope - this would involve using buildout to install the 
correct modules, and then going into Zope and configuring the LDAP 
components. I know it sounds very much like maven, and perhaps maven can 
be used in this way. But generally I have considered maven to be a 
developer tool - at least that is how I use it.

In my current case, I have created a web application framework built 
using Wicket. I want to have a core component and the add-ons/plug-ins 
such as LDAP authentication, CMS components, etc. that can be installed 
easily into a generic Granite deployment.

Does that makes sense? How have Wicket people approached this?

Buidlout can also build and install modules you are developing, as well 
as configure parts of Zope (such as the timezone). Sometime you just use 
buildout to upgrade your modules. I'm interested in approaches that 
encompass that as well. I'm not to fussed about having to restart the 
server.


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Re: best or common practice for application plug-ins

2009-07-19 Thread Martin Makundi
What are you aiming at? Providing modules to others or building
software to your client/own company?

In my opinnion modules are good for the public but not for internal /
sophisticated (=educated) use.

**
Martin

2009/7/20 Sam Stainsby s...@sustainablesoftware.com.au:
 I'm probably revealing my inexperience with J2EE environments in asking
 this, but how do Wicket programmers typically handle application add-
 ons (or plug-ins or modules).

 I'm interested in emulating what happens in the Zope/Plone world (which
 is where I've come from). In the case of Zope, you have a tool called
 'buildout' and configuration file (buildout.cfg) where you can, among
 other things, tell buildout what modules/plug-ins you want to install.
 You then run the buildout script, which will take care of finding
 dependencies, downloading your modules and dependencies and installing
 them into the right place. Then the next time you run Zope, those modules
 are available.

 Buildout used in this way is a tool used by sys admins after you have
 deployed your Zope instance. A concrete example might be to add LDAP
 authentication to Zope - this would involve using buildout to install the
 correct modules, and then going into Zope and configuring the LDAP
 components. I know it sounds very much like maven, and perhaps maven can
 be used in this way. But generally I have considered maven to be a
 developer tool - at least that is how I use it.

 In my current case, I have created a web application framework built
 using Wicket. I want to have a core component and the add-ons/plug-ins
 such as LDAP authentication, CMS components, etc. that can be installed
 easily into a generic Granite deployment.

 Does that makes sense? How have Wicket people approached this?

 Buidlout can also build and install modules you are developing, as well
 as configure parts of Zope (such as the timezone). Sometime you just use
 buildout to upgrade your modules. I'm interested in approaches that
 encompass that as well. I'm not to fussed about having to restart the
 server.


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 To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
 For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org



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