[xwiki-users] Fwd: Re[4]: SearchSuggest parameters in a new syntax gives different behaviour
-- Forwarded message -- From: Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru Date: Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:19 AM Subject: Re[4]: [xwiki-users] SearchSuggest parameters in a new syntax gives different behaviour To: Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com Hi, Marius! See below. Thu, 3 Apr 2014 18:03:50 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, Marius! See below. Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:41:32 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com wrote: Hi Dmitry, On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:33 AM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, all! 5.2 - 5.4.3 Upgrade Xwiki.SearchSuggest objects were changed It was: type:OBJECT AND (class:XWiki.BlogPostClass) AND objcontent:(__INPUT__*) It is: fq=type:DOCUMENT fq=class:Blog.BlogPostClass qf=object.Blog.BlogPostClass The main difference: - it was __INPUT__* query string and - (as far as I understood) it is __INPUT__ if parameter q is omitted The result is Solr Suggest changes it's behaviour and gives only exact results. To make Search Suggest running as it was, we have to add: q=__INPUT__* Is it done by puprpose or it is a bug and I have to jira it? On purpose. I did it as part of http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10051 (check the documentation links). The reason I dropped the * (star) is because: (1) Prefix matching is costly If Search Suggest is too costly, we can turn it off completely :) Not if there is a way to improve it. My idea was to offer by default something that performs well, but I agree that it could also be seen as an optimization. (2) The search suggest is not a filter (in the sense that you have a list of item and you type some text and it filters the items starting with that text). Search is more complex. The search text is analysed, stop words are removed, etc. (3) It was a fake prefix matching, because if you typed more words, only the last word was matched as prefix (not the entire text). All the other were analysed. IMHO, suggest means we prefer suggest more than exact search results. What I mean, that all languages wich have declensioin are too sensitive to the __INPUT__* search. Usual use case for such a search is: you enter root of the word and get back suggest of ALL forms of the word. Even in English, which is much less declensionable, singular and plural is the case. E.g. wiki input will give only exact much and won't show wikis. Thus, it makes Solr Sugges much less relevant. typing wiki (without the quotes) definitely matches wikis if the document (default) language is English. That is not the problem. The problem is if you type wik. In my use case: - Default language is Russian - Search needed for comments I didn't find any other solution, besides __INPUT__* search. As you said, you can get back the previous behaviour using q=__INPUT__* Yes, it was the firs I did, 'cause nearly to all my search strings Solr gave me no results. It wasn't so severe before the upgrade. :) IMHO, it's better to leave __INPUT__* in default settings and amend documentation with performance/relevancy issues tricks for Solr Suggest tuning. * would be useful for most use cases, and would make Suggest effective, especially for new users who start playing with XWiki. I do agree, that in the high load projects it could be essential to tweak default behaviour or turn it off at all. I'd like to hear what others think about this. Do simple users expect the search suggest to perform a prefix match or a standard match? In other words, when a user types in the search suggest, does he type the whole word or just a few letters (a prefix)? Prefix is more flexible from search point of view. But, sure it would be interesting to carry out a survey. Again, note that the previous behaviour was applying prefix matching only for the last word in the search query, not for all of the words in the query. IMHO, for Search - yes all words are essential, for suggest, most probably prefix. It is my way of searching. :) Thanks, Marius Let me know what yo think, Marius Kind regards, Dmitry ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users Kind regards, Dmitry Kind regards, Dmitry ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Re: [xwiki-users] Fwd: Re[4]: SearchSuggest parameters in a new syntax gives different behaviour
Hi, Marius, For search suggest - prefix matching by default. Wed, 23 Apr 2014 19:26:04 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com: -- Forwarded message -- From: Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com Date: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Re[4]: [xwiki-users] SearchSuggest parameters in a new syntax gives different behaviour To: Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru No other opinions on this? What do you prefer for search suggest (live search)? prefix matching or full text analysis? Thanks, Marius On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, Marius! See below. Thu, 3 Apr 2014 18:03:50 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com : On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, Marius! See below. Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:41:32 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com : On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com wrote: Hi Dmitry, On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:33 AM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, all! 5.2 - 5.4.3 Upgrade Xwiki.SearchSuggest objects were changed It was: type:OBJECT AND (class:XWiki.BlogPostClass) AND objcontent:(__INPUT__*) It is: fq=type:DOCUMENT fq=class:Blog.BlogPostClass qf=object.Blog.BlogPostClass The main difference: - it was __INPUT__* query string and - (as far as I understood) it is __INPUT__ if parameter q is omitted The result is Solr Suggest changes it's behaviour and gives only exact results. To make Search Suggest running as it was, we have to add: q=__INPUT__* Is it done by puprpose or it is a bug and I have to jira it? On purpose. I did it as part of http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10051 (check the documentation links). The reason I dropped the * (star) is because: (1) Prefix matching is costly If Search Suggest is too costly, we can turn it off completely :) Not if there is a way to improve it. My idea was to offer by default something that performs well, but I agree that it could also be seen as an optimization. (2) The search suggest is not a filter (in the sense that you have a list of item and you type some text and it filters the items starting with that text). Search is more complex. The search text is analysed, stop words are removed, etc. (3) It was a fake prefix matching, because if you typed more words, only the last word was matched as prefix (not the entire text). All the other were analysed. IMHO, suggest means we prefer suggest more than exact search results. What I mean, that all languages wich have declensioin are too sensitive to the __INPUT__* search. Usual use case for such a search is: you enter root of the word and get back suggest of ALL forms of the word. Even in English, which is much less declensionable, singular and plural is the case. E.g. wiki input will give only exact much and won't show wikis. Thus, it makes Solr Sugges much less relevant. typing wiki (without the quotes) definitely matches wikis if the document (default) language is English. That is not the problem. The problem is if you type wik. In my use case: - Default language is Russian - Search needed for comments I didn't find any other solution, besides __INPUT__* search. As you said, you can get back the previous behaviour using q=__INPUT__* Yes, it was the firs I did, 'cause nearly to all my search strings Solr gave me no results. It wasn't so severe before the upgrade. :) IMHO, it's better to leave __INPUT__* in default settings and amend documentation with performance/relevancy issues tricks for Solr Suggest tuning. * would be useful for most use cases, and would make Suggest effective, especially for new users who start playing with XWiki. I do agree, that in the high load projects it could be essential to tweak default behaviour or turn it off at all. I'd like to hear what others think about this. Do simple users expect the search suggest to perform a prefix match or a standard match? In other words, when a user types in the search suggest, does he type the whole word or just a few letters (a prefix)? Prefix is more flexible from search point of view. But, sure it would be interesting to carry out a survey. Again, note that the previous behaviour was applying prefix matching only for the last word in the search query, not for all of the words in the query. IMHO, for Search - yes all words are essential, for suggest, most probably prefix. It is my way of searching. :) Thanks, Marius Let me know what yo think, Marius Kind regards, Dmitry ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users Kind regards, Dmitry Kind regards, Dmitry ___ users mailing
[xwiki-users] Fwd: Re[4]: SearchSuggest parameters in a new syntax gives different behaviour
-- Forwarded message -- From: Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com Date: Wed, Apr 23, 2014 at 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Re[4]: [xwiki-users] SearchSuggest parameters in a new syntax gives different behaviour To: Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru No other opinions on this? What do you prefer for search suggest (live search)? prefix matching or full text analysis? Thanks, Marius On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:19 AM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, Marius! See below. Thu, 3 Apr 2014 18:03:50 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, Marius! See below. Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:41:32 +0300 от Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Marius Dumitru Florea mariusdumitru.flo...@xwiki.com wrote: Hi Dmitry, On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 5:33 AM, Dmitry Bakbardin haru_mamb...@mail.ru wrote: Hi, all! 5.2 - 5.4.3 Upgrade Xwiki.SearchSuggest objects were changed It was: type:OBJECT AND (class:XWiki.BlogPostClass) AND objcontent:(__INPUT__*) It is: fq=type:DOCUMENT fq=class:Blog.BlogPostClass qf=object.Blog.BlogPostClass The main difference: - it was __INPUT__* query string and - (as far as I understood) it is __INPUT__ if parameter q is omitted The result is Solr Suggest changes it's behaviour and gives only exact results. To make Search Suggest running as it was, we have to add: q=__INPUT__* Is it done by puprpose or it is a bug and I have to jira it? On purpose. I did it as part of http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-10051 (check the documentation links). The reason I dropped the * (star) is because: (1) Prefix matching is costly If Search Suggest is too costly, we can turn it off completely :) Not if there is a way to improve it. My idea was to offer by default something that performs well, but I agree that it could also be seen as an optimization. (2) The search suggest is not a filter (in the sense that you have a list of item and you type some text and it filters the items starting with that text). Search is more complex. The search text is analysed, stop words are removed, etc. (3) It was a fake prefix matching, because if you typed more words, only the last word was matched as prefix (not the entire text). All the other were analysed. IMHO, suggest means we prefer suggest more than exact search results. What I mean, that all languages wich have declensioin are too sensitive to the __INPUT__* search. Usual use case for such a search is: you enter root of the word and get back suggest of ALL forms of the word. Even in English, which is much less declensionable, singular and plural is the case. E.g. wiki input will give only exact much and won't show wikis. Thus, it makes Solr Sugges much less relevant. typing wiki (without the quotes) definitely matches wikis if the document (default) language is English. That is not the problem. The problem is if you type wik. In my use case: - Default language is Russian - Search needed for comments I didn't find any other solution, besides __INPUT__* search. As you said, you can get back the previous behaviour using q=__INPUT__* Yes, it was the firs I did, 'cause nearly to all my search strings Solr gave me no results. It wasn't so severe before the upgrade. :) IMHO, it's better to leave __INPUT__* in default settings and amend documentation with performance/relevancy issues tricks for Solr Suggest tuning. * would be useful for most use cases, and would make Suggest effective, especially for new users who start playing with XWiki. I do agree, that in the high load projects it could be essential to tweak default behaviour or turn it off at all. I'd like to hear what others think about this. Do simple users expect the search suggest to perform a prefix match or a standard match? In other words, when a user types in the search suggest, does he type the whole word or just a few letters (a prefix)? Prefix is more flexible from search point of view. But, sure it would be interesting to carry out a survey. Again, note that the previous behaviour was applying prefix matching only for the last word in the search query, not for all of the words in the query. IMHO, for Search - yes all words are essential, for suggest, most probably prefix. It is my way of searching. :) Thanks, Marius Let me know what yo think, Marius Kind regards, Dmitry ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users Kind regards, Dmitry Kind regards, Dmitry ___ users mailing list users@xwiki.org http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
