[libreoffice-users] Re: [Enhancement] writer: Footnote / Endnote Styles according to standards

2017-05-24 Thread V Stuart Foote 
Johnathan,


toki wrote
> On 05/24/2017 02:42 PM, V Stuart Foote w
> 
>> Sorry, but the simple truth is that developing and maintaining just a few
>> of
>> the diverse range of defined styles is out of scope for LibreOffice
> 
> A Citation Style Language aware extension could, in theory, support all
> 8,000+ formatting styles that are in the CitationStyle.org repository,
> which utilises a CC-BY-SA 3.0 (unported) license.
> 
>>but is fully in scope for projects like Zotero and Mendeley--or the
commercial
> 
> Those two programs use Citation Style Language for bibliographic
> formatting.

Yes and both already offer fully functional _extensions_ to LibreOffice  :-)


> #
> 
> The simplest approach to rewriting the Bibliographic Component, is to
> abolish the one database for all citations approach that is currently
> used. Instead, have one database for every medium and format that is
> cited. This is to cover oddities...

That would be the framework to which I refer ;-)   

But we were not talking specifically about rewriting the Bibliographic
Component and not clear at all that alone is the best way to proceed in
supporting Citation Styles as it gets rather far into core.   Zotero and
Mendeley both hold the data external to the ODF document and depend on
fields and paragraph styles.

Stuart



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: [Enhancement] writer: Footnote / Endnote Styles according to standards

2017-05-24 Thread toki 

On 05/24/2017 02:42 PM, V Stuart Foote w

> Sorry, but the simple truth is that developing and maintaining just a few of
> the diverse range of defined styles is out of scope for LibreOffice

A Citation Style Language aware extension could, in theory, support all
8,000+ formatting styles that are in the CitationStyle.org repository,
which utilises a CC-BY-SA 3.0 (unported) license.

>but is fully in scope for projects like Zotero and Mendeley--or the commercial

Those two programs use Citation Style Language for bibliographic formatting.

#

The simplest approach to rewriting the Bibliographic Component, is to
abolish the one database for all citations approach that is currently
used. Instead, have one database for every medium and format that is
cited. This is to cover oddities, such as _The APA Manual of Style_
requiring videos on YouTube to be cited differently from videos on other
Internet sites, and movies made for TV be cited differently from movies
that had a theatrical release, and if both a theatrical release and made
for tv, to have yet another format. How to correctly cite content has
gotten so much more complicated in the last decade, that one can no
longer assume that citations unambiguously point to the specific content
that is being cited.

jonathon

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[libreoffice-users] Re: [Enhancement] writer: Footnote / Endnote Styles according to standards

2017-05-24 Thread V Stuart Foote 
Ramon, *

RamonTavarez wrote
> ... we would be enhancing the LibreOffice capabilities, ...
> 
> About the extension:  What does not attract me it is that  the extension
> compels me to use another software out of LibO, and I believe that LibO is
> too good to need a third party to carry out a task as simple as the format
> to an information which we have in a database made with LibO.

Sorry, but the simple truth is that developing and maintaining just a few of
the diverse range of defined styles is out of scope for LibreOffice--but is
fully in scope for projects like Zotero and Mendeley--or the commercial
EndNote product.

Instead LibreOffice provides just the authoring framework for documents in
ODF--to the extent that framework can be extended to support industry
standards CSL (FOSS)  or ENS (EndNote) we should. 

Improving that framework to support schemes for fielded citation while
writing--supporting parenthetical citation, footnotes, endnotes, and
bibliograhy compliant with styles described in CSL or ENS is where our
development efforts should concentrate. Including collaboration with the
developers of the extensions providing the capability--but it should not be
core to the project.

Stuart



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[libreoffice-users] Re: [Enhancement] writer: Footnote / Endnote Styles according to standards

2017-05-24 Thread RamonTavarez 
Hi Stuart.

Thank you for the attention paid to my suggestion for improvement. (nothing
new, of course, but expected).

I've been looking for the way to automatically format the references
included in the files of LibreOffice and that task is complicated when we
need to submit references in some specific format.

The database for bibliographies that we currently have int LibO is a great
help for the organization of the this  information, but if we could count
on an automatic way to format the references of these bibliographies
according to specific standards with only select a preset style of
footnote/endnote we would be enhancing the LibreOffice
capabilities, because we could present the same bibliographic reference for
different types of reports according to the required standard by only
selecting the corresponding style.

About the extension:  What does not attract me it is that  the extension
compels me to use another software out of LibO, and I believe that LibO is
too good to need a third party to carry out a task as simple as the format
to an information which we have in a database made with LibO.

*Ramón E. Tavárez B.*

On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 6:44 PM, V Stuart Foote [via Document Foundation
Mail Archive]  wrote:

> Ramon, *
>
> Using the existing Bibliography sample data base provides considerable
> function already, based on Harvard style as I understand.
>
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/23/WG4212-
> TOCsIndexesBiblios.pdf
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Referencing_Systems_in_LibreOffice
>
> And frankly this is already well handled by 3rd Party extension--I'm a fan
> of Zotero standalone (Windows) and cross-platform (via Firefox) . The
> LibreOffice plugin(s) allows application of any .CSL and effective styling
> of the parenthtical, footnote, endnote and bibliography. And have not used
> it recently but the Mendely project is equally functional.
>
> But always room to improve: have  open BZ enhancment for this in tdf#94418
>  and duplicate
> tdf#95315 .
>
> Preliminary UX/Design team discussion ~Sep 2015 in
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IQ2_dFlWodb3NI9VFy1l4_
> ZmKpJgoyATYvOmB-0yUcY/edit
>
> As to doing it fully ourselves (and maintaining it), IMHO we should
> concentrate on providing  the style framework for those 3rd party projects
> implementing the full set of .CSL--e.g. Zotero or Mendely rather than
> struggle to provide just the few major styles.
>
> http://citationstyles.org/
> https://www.zotero.org/styles
>
> Stuart
>
>
>
>
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[libreoffice-users] Re: [Enhancement] writer: Footnote / Endnote Styles according to standards

2017-05-23 Thread V Stuart Foote 
Ramon, *

Using the existing Bibliography sample data base provides considerable
function already, based on Harvard style as I understand. 

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/23/WG4212-TOCsIndexesBiblios.pdf
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Referencing_Systems_in_LibreOffice

And frankly this is already well handled by 3rd Party extension--I'm a fan
of Zotero standalone (Windows) and cross-platform (via Firefox) . The
LibreOffice plugin(s) allows application of any .CSL and effective styling
of the parenthtical, footnote, endnote and bibliography. And have not used
it recently but the Mendely project is equally functional.

But always room to improve: have  open BZ enhancment for this in  tdf#94418
   and duplicate 
tdf#95315   .

Preliminary UX/Design team discussion ~Sep 2015 in
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IQ2_dFlWodb3NI9VFy1l4_ZmKpJgoyATYvOmB-0yUcY/edit

As to doing it fully ourselves (and maintaining it), IMHO we should
concentrate on providing  the style framework for those 3rd party projects
implementing the full set of .CSL--e.g. Zotero or Mendely rather than
struggle to provide just the few major styles.

http://citationstyles.org/
https://www.zotero.org/styles

Stuart






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