Re: [libreoffice-users] Accessibility issues - BLIND USER
Thanks, Tom. Les :0 On Sat, 2013-02-23 at 12:43 +, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Sorry i didn't forward this to the right list earlier! Have you had any luck solving the problems? I'm not sure if you are subscribed to the right lists so i have made sure you are being CC'd so that you get the responses. Apols and regards from Tom :) From: les hlhow...@pacbell.net To: Wes Will ww...@siu.edu Cc: LibreOffice User Support Mailing List users@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Wednesday, 20 February 2013, 17:03 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Accessibility issues - BLIND USER Hi, Wes, There is an Braille institute in LA, just off the 101 near Universal City as I recall. They should be able to shed some light on these issues. Here is their EMAIL address: l...@brailleinstitute.org Or you can contact a local institute near where you live and they might be able to help. There are other options in California, but I just know a bit because my wife had a vision impaired friend. As my own vision is failing and I have a friend whose vision is also failing, this topic will become more and more important to me as well. Screen readers suck on even their best days, but given the alternatives Good luck. LesH On Wed, 2013-02-20 at 01:33 -0600, Wes Will wrote: Greetings. Just signed up for the list. Have NOT had the time yet to get to the archives and dig for prior messages to this list regarding blind users, so if this is already old news, please forgive me and drop a link to the pertinent archives. I will assuredly be delving for this topic as soon as it is possible. I'll likely wait for daylight, it is presently 0100 hours here (U.S. CST) and it has been a long day. The problem is that I have been talking LibreOffice up to the heavens to a blind friend. He is stuck in a WinBlows environment, has the latest-version-but-one of the JAWS screen reader, and has been scorched by M$ Turd one too many times. It -does- read through his screen reader, but their ribbon foolishness has made the thing completely and utterly useless to him. Simple things that he has always been able to do with a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl-O for opening a new document for instance) no longer work. One keyboard command might do one thing if a certain 'ribbon component' is active, and a completely different thing if another is active. He needs a reliable productivity suite, and I think LibreOffice -ought- to be perfect for him. Except that it ISN'T. He installed it, and was greeted with SILENCE from his screen reader. Keyboard commands, like that Ctrl-O, work fine. It just won't read the screen to him. Nightmare time for a totally blind person who just wants it to talk to him like all the other applications he uses. So I start looking, and I find that there is a REQUIRED additional JAVA API that must be installed. Roadblock ONE. It's on an Oracle site, which ISN'T all that 'blind friendly' and requires license acceptance via a bloody MOUSE CLICK on the web page. MOUSE and BLIND do NOT go together. I can get him by that, eventually, by downloading it myself (done) and sending it to him, but then it goes to roadblock TWO. The API installer is NOT 'blind friendly' either, requiring that he unzip the package, find the correct file for his OS, start it, and then answer (BY MOUSE-CLICKS AGAIN!!) several pages of information. I cannot walk him through this, as I do NOT use Microsoft ANYTHING. I cannot simply do it for him - he is in California and I am in Illinois. There is a 3000 kilometer gap between his keyboard and my hand. Is there ANY WAY that the correct API can be embedded into the LibreOffice package, or put there as an option in the install process? I.E. start the LibreOffice install; somewhere near the beginning be presented with Add Accessibility Java Extension API to LibreOffice; select Accept Oracle License Agreement; Continue installation WITH the added Java API automatically being unpacked and installed in the proper place. Or even a previously-accessibility-extended-install version of the LibreOffice suite installer. Can anyone get me past these roadblocks? I'm at a loss here, I DO think that FOSS software will work well for him, but getting it to actually WORK in the screen reader environment is already a messy, complicated thing for a BLIND MAN. Are there work-arounds or things that can be done to accomplish this? Another thing I noticed in the documentation for accessibility: The JAWS screen reader Version listed as being compatible with the (JAVA Accessibility API-Enabled) LibreOffice suite was SEVEN... They are up to version FOURTEEN, and he is using TWELVE. Has anyone checked these out for compatibility? Again, I
Re: [libreoffice-users] Accessibility issues - BLIND USER
Hi Wes, Dependence on Java for certain things is a long standing issue. The devs are working to reduce and eventually eliminate this dependency, but it takes time. One suggestion would be for you to get him set up with a free LogMeIn account (www.logmein.com), then you could provide remote assistance for him (for this and any other potential issues down the road)... this way you could install things for him as if you were sitting in front of his computer. I've been using the free version of LogMeIn to provide support for family/friends for many years... Sorry, but thats the best you can do for now... Libreoffice can not legally 'integrate' java due to licensing issues (nor can any other software, commercial or free). On 2013-02-20 2:33 AM, Wes Will ww...@siu.edu wrote: So I start looking, and I find that there is a REQUIRED additional JAVA API that must be installed. Roadblock ONE. It's on an Oracle site, which ISN'T all that 'blind friendly' and requires license acceptance via a bloody MOUSE CLICK on the web page. MOUSE and BLIND do NOT go together. I can get him by that, eventually, by downloading it myself (done) and sending it to him, but then it goes to roadblock TWO. The API installer is NOT 'blind friendly' either, requiring that he unzip the package, find the correct file for his OS, start it, and then answer (BY MOUSE-CLICKS AGAIN!!) several pages of information. I cannot walk him through this, as I do NOT use Microsoft ANYTHING. I cannot simply do it for him - he is in California and I am in Illinois. There is a 3000 kilometer gap between his keyboard and my hand. -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-users] Accessibility issues - BLIND USER
Hi, Wes, There is an Braille institute in LA, just off the 101 near Universal City as I recall. They should be able to shed some light on these issues. Here is their EMAIL address: l...@brailleinstitute.org Or you can contact a local institute near where you live and they might be able to help. There are other options in California, but I just know a bit because my wife had a vision impaired friend. As my own vision is failing and I have a friend whose vision is also failing, this topic will become more and more important to me as well. Screen readers suck on even their best days, but given the alternatives Good luck. LesH On Wed, 2013-02-20 at 01:33 -0600, Wes Will wrote: Greetings. Just signed up for the list. Have NOT had the time yet to get to the archives and dig for prior messages to this list regarding blind users, so if this is already old news, please forgive me and drop a link to the pertinent archives. I will assuredly be delving for this topic as soon as it is possible. I'll likely wait for daylight, it is presently 0100 hours here (U.S. CST) and it has been a long day. The problem is that I have been talking LibreOffice up to the heavens to a blind friend. He is stuck in a WinBlows environment, has the latest-version-but-one of the JAWS screen reader, and has been scorched by M$ Turd one too many times. It -does- read through his screen reader, but their ribbon foolishness has made the thing completely and utterly useless to him. Simple things that he has always been able to do with a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl-O for opening a new document for instance) no longer work. One keyboard command might do one thing if a certain 'ribbon component' is active, and a completely different thing if another is active. He needs a reliable productivity suite, and I think LibreOffice -ought- to be perfect for him. Except that it ISN'T. He installed it, and was greeted with SILENCE from his screen reader. Keyboard commands, like that Ctrl-O, work fine. It just won't read the screen to him. Nightmare time for a totally blind person who just wants it to talk to him like all the other applications he uses. So I start looking, and I find that there is a REQUIRED additional JAVA API that must be installed. Roadblock ONE. It's on an Oracle site, which ISN'T all that 'blind friendly' and requires license acceptance via a bloody MOUSE CLICK on the web page. MOUSE and BLIND do NOT go together. I can get him by that, eventually, by downloading it myself (done) and sending it to him, but then it goes to roadblock TWO. The API installer is NOT 'blind friendly' either, requiring that he unzip the package, find the correct file for his OS, start it, and then answer (BY MOUSE-CLICKS AGAIN!!) several pages of information. I cannot walk him through this, as I do NOT use Microsoft ANYTHING. I cannot simply do it for him - he is in California and I am in Illinois. There is a 3000 kilometer gap between his keyboard and my hand. Is there ANY WAY that the correct API can be embedded into the LibreOffice package, or put there as an option in the install process? I.E. start the LibreOffice install; somewhere near the beginning be presented with Add Accessibility Java Extension API to LibreOffice; select Accept Oracle License Agreement; Continue installation WITH the added Java API automatically being unpacked and installed in the proper place. Or even a previously-accessibility-extended-install version of the LibreOffice suite installer. Can anyone get me past these roadblocks? I'm at a loss here, I DO think that FOSS software will work well for him, but getting it to actually WORK in the screen reader environment is already a messy, complicated thing for a BLIND MAN. Are there work-arounds or things that can be done to accomplish this? Another thing I noticed in the documentation for accessibility: The JAWS screen reader Version listed as being compatible with the (JAVA Accessibility API-Enabled) LibreOffice suite was SEVEN... They are up to version FOURTEEN, and he is using TWELVE. Has anyone checked these out for compatibility? Again, I cannot, since it is a Win-Only application. If I can get my friend in California past this whole mess, I will gladly have him test it out for compatibility and report back here so the documentation can be updated. Ideas? Links to information? Go suck an egg? What should I do here? -- Wes Will -- For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
