Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
Days were indeed reckoned from sunset to sunset; so the Twelve Days of Christmas are from the evening of the 24th of December (Christmas Night) to the evening of the 5th of January (Twelfth Night)––not the 4th (otherwise there wouldn’t be twelve days). -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
On 08/12/2022 23:13, Toki wrote: When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, when does it assume that the new Islamic day begins: * Sunset; * Midnight; * Sunrise; When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, when does it assume that the first of the Islamic month begins: * Sunset; * Midnight; * Sunrise; I'm completely ignorant in this area but find the questions interesting. However, doesn't the second (on first principles) follow from the first? In Islam: * The new day begins at sunset. * The new month begins at sunrise, after the new moon has been sighted. Judaism, is slightly more logical. Both the new day and new month begin at sunset. The new month begins on the sunset of the day that the new moon was sighted. By way of example. Sunset is at 5:00 PM on Thursday. The New moon is sighted at 5:10 PM on Thursday. In Islam, the first of the month starts at sunrise on Friday. In Judaism, the first of the month starts at sunset on Friday. (If you want to be technical, replace _Judaism_ with _Karaite Judaism_.) The western Christian calendar is also based on the start of the day is at sunset. At this time of year this is important as it means Christmas day starts at sunset on the 24th December. This means that twelfth night is the night starting at sunset on the 4th of January so technically Christmas finishes at sunset on the Fifth January and this is then the start of Epiphany, the period to celebrate the arrival of the 3 kings. It explains why there is a discussion each year about when you should take down the Christmas decorations. :) Easter also has similar rules. Which is that Easter is the Saturday night/Sunday after the spring Equinox after a full Moon. Passover uses the same rule but for Friday Night, which means occasionally they a month apart. Calendars are just such fun. Not sure when the next leap second is? -- Cheers Ian Mac When going through journals of pious Muslims, you will occasionally see dates like 30 Shaʿbān 12th hour immediately followed by 1 Ramaḍān 13th hour.The first through twelfth hour doesn't exist for 1 Ramadan. This is why knowing what assumptions are made about the converted date are important. I'm completely ignorant too. A quick search leads to the further question: which islamic calendar? As best as I can determine, LibO uses a theoretical calendar. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
On 11/12/22 04:53, John Kaufmann wrote: When I found the questions interesting, I did not imagine how interesting: that the last day of each month is also the first day of the following month -- not just for Shaʿbān to Ramadan, but for all monthly transitions. The implications are fascinating. There is a reason why serious developers point blank refuse to write their own calendar library. That said, your use of "12th hour" suggests that "sunset" and "sunrise" are (like Gregorian "midnight") formal based on a 24-hour day, not literal - correct? It depends. * Sometimes one uses a standard clock, that breaks a day into 24 hours of 60 minutes each; * Sometimes one uses a time piece that breaks the time between sunset and sunrise into 12 hours, and between sunrise and sunset into 12 hours, with the length of the hours during daylight being different from those during the night. By way of example, where I am, the hours at night are roughly 80 minutes long, whilst the hours during the day are roughly 40 minutes long. Twelfth hour being at roughly 6 AM, with sunrise at roughly 7:45 AM, then the next 12th hour is at roughly roughly 3:30 PM, with sunset at roughly 4:15 PM. * Sometimes one uses a time piece that breaks the day into 12 hours, and the night into either 3 or 4 watches. # I'm going to assume that LibO starts both the day, and the month at sunset. For when the exact day is critical, I'll run a script that calculates when the new moon was first _theoretically_ sighted in Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
On 2022-12-08 18:13, Toki wrote: ... In Islam: * The new day begins at sunset. * The new month begins at sunrise, after the new moon has been sighted. Judaism, is slightly more logical. Both the new day and new month begin at sunset. The new month begins on the sunset of the day that the new moon was sighted. By way of example. Sunset is at 5:00 PM on Thursday. The New moon is sighted at 5:10 PM on Thursday. In Islam, the first of the month starts at sunrise on Friday. In Judaism, the first of the month starts at sunset on Friday. (If you want to be technical, replace _Judaism_ with _Karaite Judaism_.) When going through journals of pious Muslims, you will occasionally see dates like 30 Shaʿbān 12th hour immediately followed by 1 Ramaḍān 13th hour.The first through twelfth hour doesn't exist for 1 Ramadan. This is why knowing what assumptions are made about the converted date are important. When I found the questions interesting, I did not imagine how interesting: that the last day of each month is also the first day of the following month -- not just for Shaʿbān to Ramadan, but for all monthly transitions. The implications are fascinating. That said, your use of "12th hour" suggests that "sunset" and "sunrise" are (like Gregorian "midnight") formal based on a 24-hour day, not literal - correct? [Sorry that you came to the list for answers, and ended up providing answers. Sadly, the topic is esoteric, but it is important.] -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, when does it assume that the new Islamic day begins: * Sunset; * Midnight; * Sunrise; When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, when does it assume that the first of the Islamic month begins: * Sunset; * Midnight; * Sunrise; I'm completely ignorant in this area but find the questions interesting. However, doesn't the second (on first principles) follow from the first? In Islam: * The new day begins at sunset. * The new month begins at sunrise, after the new moon has been sighted. Judaism, is slightly more logical. Both the new day and new month begin at sunset. The new month begins on the sunset of the day that the new moon was sighted. By way of example. Sunset is at 5:00 PM on Thursday. The New moon is sighted at 5:10 PM on Thursday. In Islam, the first of the month starts at sunrise on Friday. In Judaism, the first of the month starts at sunset on Friday. (If you want to be technical, replace _Judaism_ with _Karaite Judaism_.) When going through journals of pious Muslims, you will occasionally see dates like 30 Shaʿbān 12th hour immediately followed by 1 Ramaḍān 13th hour.The first through twelfth hour doesn't exist for 1 Ramadan. This is why knowing what assumptions are made about the converted date are important. I'm completely ignorant too. A quick search leads to the further question: which islamic calendar? As best as I can determine, LibO uses a theoretical calendar. jonathon -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 21:34:37 -0500 John Kaufmann wrote: > On 2022-12-07 19:57, Toki wrote: > > All: > > > > When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, > > when does it assume that the new Islamic day begins: > > * Sunset; > > * Midnight; > > * Sunrise; > > > > When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, > > when does it assume that the first of the Islamic month begins: > > * Sunset; > > * Midnight; > > * Sunrise; > > I'm completely ignorant in this area but find the questions > interesting. However, doesn't the second (on first principles) follow > from the first? I'm completely ignorant too. A quick search leads to the further question: which islamic calendar? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-users] Islamic Calendar Dates
On 2022-12-07 19:57, Toki wrote: All: When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, when does it assume that the new Islamic day begins: * Sunset; * Midnight; * Sunrise; When LibreOffice converts Gregorian to/from Islamic Calendar dates, when does it assume that the first of the Islamic month begins: * Sunset; * Midnight; * Sunrise; I'm completely ignorant in this area but find the questions interesting. However, doesn't the second (on first principles) follow from the first? -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
