Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

[Russel Winder]

On Sat, 2018-03-10 at 00:16 +0100, MG wrote:
> Thank you to all that gave feedback :-)
> 
> Russel, could you elaborate a bit on the incompatibilities you
> mention ?
> 

Gant (I use it as a playground for some stuff, it is no longer a useful
application for anyone) had all tests passing under Azul-8 with Groovy
2.4.14. I run using Groovy 2.4.14 on Azul-9 and two tests fail. Correct
the tests to work (via total weirdness) and then they fail using Azul-
8.

There is a thread on the developer list going into more detail.
 
-- 
Russel.
===
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk


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Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

[Mauro Molinari]

They have their own set of debs with their own maintainers, although they 
use Debian source and patches heavily. Honestly I don't know whether they 
use the Debian binaries as-is, but I would say they should compile sources 
by their own because the package base for dependencies is different.


Mauro Molinari
mauro...@tiscali.it



In data 8 marzo 2018 3:55:47 PM Russel Winder  ha 
scritto:



On Thu, 2018-03-08 at 15:53 +0100, Mauro Molinari wrote:

FWIW we have been using OpenJDK (installed from Ubuntu repositories)
to
run web applications using Groovy in production for years without any
issue.



Does Ubuntu just use the Debian OpenJDK debs, or do they build their
own from source?

--
Russel.
===
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk

Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

[Eric Helgeson]

Hi Charles,

zulu.org it says "Powered by Azul" and the links on Azul for zulu point to
zulu.org - so my assumption is they are one in the same.

Thanks,
-Eric

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 9:01 AM Charles Monteiro 
wrote:

> corrected:
>
> Eric:
>
>
>
> I don’t see Azul on SDKMan but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org
> ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks
>
>
>
> --
> Charles Monteiro
>
>
> On March 8, 2018 at 9:51:36 AM, Charles Monteiro (
> charles.monte...@gmail.com) wrote:
>
> Eric:
>
>
> I don’t see Azul on seaman but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org
> ,so that is what you mean right ? thanks
>
> --
> Charles Monteiro
>
>
> On March 8, 2018 at 9:06:01 AM, Eric Helgeson (erichelge...@gmail.com)
> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few
> differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no
> longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in
> the near future:
>
> [1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no
> technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.
>
> In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if
> you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK
> (which we do).
>
> Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for
> quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences
> when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.
>
> With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2]
> - I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but
> OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather
> ship customers features :)
>
> Just my 2c & experience,
> -Eric
>
> PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to
> mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D
>
> [1] https://medium.com/codefx-weekly/no-free-java-lts-version-b850192745fb
> 
> [2] https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1*vkAzxUI6lgP5sH7qfbNEqQ.png
> 
> (via [1])
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg  wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using
>> alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?
>>
>> Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and
>> the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory
>> is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent
>> garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application
>> startup (warmup) time improvements.
>> But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala
>> explicitly on the web page)...
>>
>> Cheers,
>> mg
>>
>>
>> --
>
> -Eric Helgeson
>
> --

-Eric Helgeson

Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

[Charles Monteiro]

Eric:


I don’t see Azul on seaman but I do see the Java feature from zulu.org ,so
that is what you mean right ? thanks

-- 
Charles Monteiro


On March 8, 2018 at 9:06:01 AM, Eric Helgeson (erichelge...@gmail.com)
wrote:

Hi,

It used to be the case that OpenJDK and OracleJDK  had quite a few
differences in terms of performance and compatibility. But that is no
longer the case in my experience & should be no technical differences in
the near future:

[1] > [The] intent is that within a few releases there should be no
technical differences between OpenJDK builds and Oracle JDK binaries.

In fact many IaaS platforms can only run OpenJDK due to licensing - so if
you're running Grails on AWS Elastic Beanstalk you're already using OpenJDK
(which we do).

Since AWS uses OpenJDK I've been using Azul on my Mac (via sdkman) for
quite some time and have not noticed any incompatibilities or differences
when running Grails or other small groovy apps/scripts.

With Oracle's new release cadence and no overlapping support timelines[2] -
I don't see how any non-oracle-paying java users could use anything but
OpenJDK. For me I don't want to spend time upgrading my JDK - would rather
ship customers features :)

Just my 2c & experience,
-Eric

PS: Maybe worth reaching out to Azul and asking what tests they did to
mention Scala - and to add Groovy there too :D

[1] https://medium.com/codefx-weekly/no-free-java-lts-version-b850192745fb

[2] https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/2000/1*vkAzxUI6lgP5sH7qfbNEqQ.png

(via [1])

On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 6:09 AM mg  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using
> alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/) ?
>
> Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower, and
> the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model (JVM memory
> is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os), continuous concurrent
> garbage collection without freeze-the-world fallback, and application
> startup (warmup) time improvements.
> But I am worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala
> explicitly on the web page)...
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
> --

-Eric Helgeson

Re: Alternative JVM with Groovy (Azul,...) ?

[Russel Winder]

On Thu, 2018-03-08 at 13:09 +0100, mg wrote:
> Hi,
> I would be interested to hear if anyone has experience with using
> alternative JVMs with Groovy, especially Azul (https://www.azul.com/)
> ?
> Licensing costs for long term OpenJDK support seem to be much lower,
> and the JVM has additional benefits such as an elastic memory model
> (JVM memory is dynamically allocated/deallocated from the os),
> continuous concurrent garbage collection without freeze-the-world
> fallback, and application startup (warmup) time improvements.But I am
> worried about Groovy compatibility (they only mention Scala
> explicitly on the web page)...
> Cheers,mg

On Debian Sid I use Azul JDKs (Zulu 8 and Zulu 9) because they provide
a deb repository and it is easy. On Fedora Rawhide I use the Fedora
provided OpenJDK, Azul do not provide a Fedora rawhide rpm repository,
but they do provide a RHEL/CentOS one. Why not the Debian provided
OpenJDK and ignore Azul? It comes down to being told Debian Sid OpenJDK
was unreliable and that I should trust Azul.

I have discovered some incompatibilities of Groovy 2.4.14 running on
Zulu 8 compared to Zulu 9. I have yet to try on Fedora OpenJDK to see
if it is an Azul problem or a Groovy problem.

I am not about to use OracleJDK ever again.

Obviously though I am always using the free versions, I do not pay a
licence fee.


-- 
Russel.
===
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk


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