Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On 10 Feb 2026, at 21:24, Stephen Morris wrote: If we need to raise issues upstream for dnf where do we raise them? In the Fedora bugtracker The instructions I found on the net for ensuring all the media packages needed for vlc to play blu-rays may have been for dnf4, as it was also using a method for identifying the group that in dnf5, in my view, is broken. Groups have an ID and a Name, and in dnf4 you could specify the group by name enclosed in double quotes, in dnf5 it says the value specified in double quotes doesn't exist even though a "group list" displays that name. As I understand it you are expected to use the ID now and not the name. Both the ID and the description are shown as you noticed. For example dnf group info editors Barry I've replied to some threads with silly questions, so if I can continue the trend, given that I have used the group install facility in previous versions of Fedora and dnf by using the Name and had that work as specified in articles on the net, how are we supposed to know that in F43 that functionality has to be done differently? I guess there's no way to know, but from what I understand now, that method should never really have been used. The issue is that the name is localized, so a command with the English name would not work on a French localized install (unless dnf would check all the localized names). And I just checked that and dnf4 won't install the French name on my English system. # dnf4 group info "Outils système" Warning: Group Outils système does not exist. But this works: # LANG=fr_CA.UTF-8 dnf4 group info "Outils système" Group: Outils système Description: Ce groupe est un ensemble de différents outils pour le système, tels qu'un client pour la connexion aux partages SMB et des outils permettant de surveiller le trafic réseau. Yes, but if a user has their system locale set to french then I would expect the french language to work and the English language to fail as you have shown, which is the way systems work anyway. What annoys me though (I know the net can be misleading), is where a web page provides instructions on what needs to done to do what it is suggesting, and those instructions a tailored to a whole host of different distributions, and for Fedora is specified to use a group install with the package name rather than ID, and that command doesn't work even though in the past I've done things that way. When it comes back and tells the name doesn't exist, my first thought before I change methods is "What do you mean it doesn't exist I'm looking at that name on the screen in front of me because you have just told me it does exist?". regards, BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:4.0 N:Morris;Stephen;;; FN:Stephen Morris EMAIL;PREF=1;TYPE=home:[email protected] END:VCARD -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On Thu, 2026-02-12 at 11:36 +1030, Tim via users wrote: > My pet peeve is when we have systems that are case-sensitive and > someone decides to name things in annoying ways to type. All our > other > system commands are all lower-case, and many of their options > (excepting for things like -v versus -V because there's not enough > letters for around for the many options), stick to that approach. Amen to that. poc -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On Thu, 2026-02-12 at 09:01 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote: > I've replied to some threads with silly questions, so if I can > continue the trend, given that I have used the group install > facility in previous versions of Fedora and dnf by using the Name and > had that work as specified in articles on the net, how are we > supposed to know that in F43 that functionality has to be done > differently? Well, generally after one or two attempt at what you thought would work but failing with unexpected results you try something else, or look online for some answers. It took me a few minutes consternation after my last install. Fortunately I have more than one PC and can use the other to look up info. My pet peeve is when we have systems that are case-sensitive and someone decides to name things in annoying ways to type. All our other system commands are all lower-case, and many of their options (excepting for things like -v versus -V because there's not enough letters for around for the many options), stick to that approach. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.119.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Jun 4 14:43:51 UTC 2024 x86_64 (yes, this is the output from uname for this PC when I posted) Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On 2/11/26 2:01 PM, Stephen Morris wrote: On 10 Feb 2026, at 21:24, Stephen Morris wrote: If we need to raise issues upstream for dnf where do we raise them? In the Fedora bugtracker The instructions I found on the net for ensuring all the media packages needed for vlc to play blu-rays may have been for dnf4, as it was also using a method for identifying the group that in dnf5, in my view, is broken. Groups have an ID and a Name, and in dnf4 you could specify the group by name enclosed in double quotes, in dnf5 it says the value specified in double quotes doesn't exist even though a "group list" displays that name. As I understand it you are expected to use the ID now and not the name. Both the ID and the description are shown as you noticed. For example dnf group info editors Barry I've replied to some threads with silly questions, so if I can continue the trend, given that I have used the group install facility in previous versions of Fedora and dnf by using the Name and had that work as specified in articles on the net, how are we supposed to know that in F43 that functionality has to be done differently? I guess there's no way to know, but from what I understand now, that method should never really have been used. The issue is that the name is localized, so a command with the English name would not work on a French localized install (unless dnf would check all the localized names). And I just checked that and dnf4 won't install the French name on my English system. # dnf4 group info "Outils système" Warning: Group Outils système does not exist. But this works: # LANG=fr_CA.UTF-8 dnf4 group info "Outils système" Group: Outils système Description: Ce groupe est un ensemble de différents outils pour le système, tels qu'un client pour la connexion aux partages SMB et des outils permettant de surveiller le trafic réseau. -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On 10 Feb 2026, at 21:24, Stephen Morris wrote: If we need to raise issues upstream for dnf where do we raise them? In the Fedora bugtracker The instructions I found on the net for ensuring all the media packages needed for vlc to play blu-rays may have been for dnf4, as it was also using a method for identifying the group that in dnf5, in my view, is broken. Groups have an ID and a Name, and in dnf4 you could specify the group by name enclosed in double quotes, in dnf5 it says the value specified in double quotes doesn't exist even though a "group list" displays that name. As I understand it you are expected to use the ID now and not the name. Both the ID and the description are shown as you noticed. For example dnf group info editors Barry I've replied to some threads with silly questions, so if I can continue the trend, given that I have used the group install facility in previous versions of Fedora and dnf by using the Name and had that work as specified in articles on the net, how are we supposed to know that in F43 that functionality has to be done differently? regards, BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:4.0 N:Morris;Stephen;;; FN:Stephen Morris EMAIL;PREF=1;TYPE=home:[email protected] END:VCARD -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
> On 10 Feb 2026, at 21:24, Stephen Morris wrote: > > If we need to raise issues upstream for dnf where do we raise them? In the Fedora bugtracker > The instructions I found on the net for ensuring all the media packages > needed for vlc to play blu-rays may have been for dnf4, as it was also using > a method for identifying the group that in dnf5, in my view, is broken. > Groups have an ID and a Name, and in dnf4 you could specify the group by name > enclosed in double quotes, in dnf5 it says the value specified in double > quotes doesn't exist even though a "group list" displays that name. As I understand it you are expected to use the ID now and not the name. Both the ID and the description are shown as you noticed. For example dnf group info editors Barry -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On 2/10/26 1:24 PM, Stephen Morris wrote: If we need to raise issues upstream for dnf where do we raise them? The instructions I found on the net for ensuring all the media packages needed for vlc to play blu-rays may have been for dnf4, as it was also using a method for identifying the group that in dnf5, in my view, is broken. Groups have an ID and a Name, and in dnf4 you could specify the group by name enclosed in double quotes, in dnf5 it says the value specified in double quotes doesn't exist even though a "group list" displays that name. It's interesting. 'dnf group info "System Tools"' works, but not 'dnf group install "System Tools"'. There's an issue filed, but the maintainers don't like the idea for valid reasons. Just use the short name. https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf5/issues/1599 -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 at 20:44, Stephen Morris wrote: Hi, I've noticed with DNF5 the commands "grouplist" and "groupinstall" have been removed. I've seen package install instructions on the net to use those commands as being specific instructions for Fedora. Before DNF became DNF5 those two commands were available, I had used them several times. It seems that DNF5 has replaced those commands with "group list" and "group install". Is it possible to create aliases of those two commands within DNF5 or do I have to raise a formal defect for the regression? Questions like this are probably best researched at the upstream repo (although I believe we do have DNF contributors here too). These issues indicate that the removal of 'group list' and 'group install' were quite explicit: https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf5/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20grouplist Just a silly question on raising defects, if one is raised what is the likelihood of it being fixed Again, probably best answered upstream. My reading of those previous two issues is that you will have to live with the changes or implement something yourself but YMMV. If we need to raise issues upstream for dnf where do we raise them? The instructions I found on the net for ensuring all the media packages needed for vlc to play blu-rays may have been for dnf4, as it was also using a method for identifying the group that in dnf5, in my view, is broken. Groups have an ID and a Name, and in dnf4 you could specify the group by name enclosed in double quotes, in dnf5 it says the value specified in double quotes doesn't exist even though a "group list" displays that name. regards, BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:4.0 N:Morris;Stephen;;; FN:Stephen Morris EMAIL;PREF=1;TYPE=home:[email protected] END:VCARD -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On Mon, 2026-02-09 at 17:01 -0500, Todd Zullinger wrote: > Stephen Morris wrote: > > I've noticed with DNF5 the commands "grouplist" and > > "groupinstall" have > > been removed. I've seen package install instructions on the net to > > use those > > commands as being specific instructions for Fedora. Before DNF > > became DNF5 > > those two commands were available, I had used them several times. > > It seems > > that DNF5 has replaced those commands with "group list" and "group > > install". > > Is it possible to create aliases of those two commands within DNF5 > > or do I > > have to raise a formal defect for the regression? > > The grouplist subcommand was a deprecated alias in dnf-4. > At some point, it's not unreasonable to drop them rather > than carry dead weight around forever. > > You can use an alias if you really want, but that seems like > more work than it's worth just to restore a long-deprecated > name in most cases. > > Refer to dnf-aliases(7) for details. I'm sure I'm not alone in never having heard of this. Apparently a bunch of standard commands are already aliases. See: /usr/share/dnf5/aliases.d/* poc -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On Tue, 2026-02-10 at 07:43 +1100, Stephen Morris wrote: > I've noticed with DNF5 the commands "grouplist" and "groupinstall" > have been removed. I've seen package install instructions on the net to > use those commands as being specific instructions for Fedora. Before DNF > became DNF5 those two commands were available, I had used them several > times. It seems that DNF5 has replaced those commands with "group list" > and "group install". Is it possible to create aliases of those two > commands within DNF5 or do I have to raise a formal defect for the > regression? > Just a silly question on raising defects, if one is raised what is > the likelihood of it being fixed, does it have to go through a voting > process like is required with the software I develop in with work? Defects are one thing, they need fixing. But Requests For Enhancements are entirely at the whim of the programmers to handle and reject. Things evolve here (and with other projects), and that can be added or changed features, and dropping of things. Over time, too many features can get added, and programmers find it too hard to maintain. Then someone decides to start from scratch. And the cycle repeats. At least with command line tools, you can often create your own tools based on them, or wrapped around them, to add your own personally needed features. But often you just have to go with the flow. Fedora is a fast moving target, and some of us don't update to each new release because it's too much change, too often. And that is another approach. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.119.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Jun 4 14:43:51 UTC 2024 x86_64 (yes, this is the output from uname for this PC when I posted) Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
Stephen Morris wrote: > I've noticed with DNF5 the commands "grouplist" and "groupinstall" have > been removed. I've seen package install instructions on the net to use those > commands as being specific instructions for Fedora. Before DNF became DNF5 > those two commands were available, I had used them several times. It seems > that DNF5 has replaced those commands with "group list" and "group install". > Is it possible to create aliases of those two commands within DNF5 or do I > have to raise a formal defect for the regression? The grouplist subcommand was a deprecated alias in dnf-4. At some point, it's not unreasonable to drop them rather than carry dead weight around forever. You can use an alias if you really want, but that seems like more work than it's worth just to restore a long-deprecated name in most cases. Refer to dnf-aliases(7) for details. -- Todd signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
Re: DNF5 Command Regression
On Mon, 9 Feb 2026 at 20:44, Stephen Morris wrote: > Hi, > I've noticed with DNF5 the commands "grouplist" and "groupinstall" > have been removed. I've seen package install instructions on the net to > use those commands as being specific instructions for Fedora. Before DNF > became DNF5 those two commands were available, I had used them several > times. It seems that DNF5 has replaced those commands with "group list" > and "group install". Is it possible to create aliases of those two > commands within DNF5 or do I have to raise a formal defect for the > regression? > Questions like this are probably best researched at the upstream repo (although I believe we do have DNF contributors here too). These issues indicate that the removal of 'group list' and 'group install' were quite explicit: https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf5/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20grouplist Just a silly question on raising defects, if one is raised what is > the likelihood of it being fixed Again, probably best answered upstream. My reading of those previous two issues is that you will have to live with the changes or implement something yourself but YMMV. -- ___ users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/[email protected] Do not reply to spam, report it: https://forge.fedoraproject.org/infra/tickets/issues/new
