Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Florent (CC Scilab Users)

I cannot run the zcos model with my current Scilab 6.0.1 setup (and I
haven't installed CPGE 1.6.3 either - is there a way you could simulate a
loudspeaker without the need for CPGE??).

The bode plots you get is a function of the input + the loudspeaker model.
We know that in principle the accelaration is equivalent to Loudspeaker
Sound Pressure Level (SPL) response and it should show a flat area + roll
off at both ends. I see that your plots don't do this.

The velocity is like an integration and should "shift" (or "tilt") the
response by 6 dB.

The position is also like an integration and should further shift/tilt the
reponse additionally 6 dB so that in the bandpass you get a 12 dB/octave
slope.

Your current loudspeaker model looks OK (I haven't dug into the details of
each block), so my guess is - the output depends on the input. Now that you
presumably have a working loudspeaker model - would it then maybe make
sense to generate a very simple model - e.g. just a resistor (i.e. not a
bandpass - but something that behaves from DC to lightning as a flat curve)
- play around with the input and get it to behave correctly?

Best regards,
Claus

On Sat, Mar 10, 2018 at 9:51 AM, Claus Futtrup  wrote:

> Hi Florent
>
> Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I don't speak but maybe
> 100 words in French and can't string together a sentence (but maybe the
> most elementary tourist-french). I looked up the CPGE in Atoms, but it
> looks French to me... https://atoms.scilab.org/toolboxes/CPGE/1.6.3/
>
> You give the result but no details to replicate, etc. I'm afraid I can't
> help.
>
> Best regards,
> Claus
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Florent 
> wrote:
>
>> Good morning,
>>
>> Here is an update of my "problem".
>>
>> First of all I had a problem of compatibility between Scilab/Xcos and the
>> toolbox CPGE.
>>
>> Before I was using Scilab 6.0.1 and CPGE Version: 1.6.0.
>> Now, with Scilab 5.4.1 and CPGE Version: 1.5.2, the Bode plot works. But
>> it
>> doesn't give the result expected...
>>
>> For the Displacement vs Frequency, a Low Pass behavior is expected.
>> For the Velocity vs Frequency, a Band Pass behavior is expected.
>> For the Acceleration vs Frequency, a High Pass behavior is expected
>> (similar
>> to the pressure response).
>>
>> And here is what is get:
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Florent

Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I don't speak but maybe 100
words in French and can't string together a sentence (but maybe the most
elementary tourist-french). I looked up the CPGE in Atoms, but it looks
French to me... https://atoms.scilab.org/toolboxes/CPGE/1.6.3/

You give the result but no details to replicate, etc. I'm afraid I can't
help.

Best regards,
Claus


On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 10:29 PM, Florent  wrote:

> Good morning,
>
> Here is an update of my "problem".
>
> First of all I had a problem of compatibility between Scilab/Xcos and the
> toolbox CPGE.
>
> Before I was using Scilab 6.0.1 and CPGE Version: 1.6.0.
> Now, with Scilab 5.4.1 and CPGE Version: 1.5.2, the Bode plot works. But it
> doesn't give the result expected...
>
> For the Displacement vs Frequency, a Low Pass behavior is expected.
> For the Velocity vs Frequency, a Band Pass behavior is expected.
> For the Acceleration vs Frequency, a High Pass behavior is expected
> (similar
> to the pressure response).
>
> And here is what is get:
>
> 
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://mailinglists.scilab.org/Scilab-users-Mailing-
> Lists-Archives-f2602246.html
> ___
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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Florent]

Good morning,

Here is an update of my "problem".

First of all I had a problem of compatibility between Scilab/Xcos and the
toolbox CPGE.

Before I was using Scilab 6.0.1 and CPGE Version: 1.6.0.
Now, with Scilab 5.4.1 and CPGE Version: 1.5.2, the Bode plot works. But it
doesn't give the result expected...

For the Displacement vs Frequency, a Low Pass behavior is expected.
For the Velocity vs Frequency, a Band Pass behavior is expected.
For the Acceleration vs Frequency, a High Pass behavior is expected (similar
to the pressure response).

And here is what is get:

 



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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Florent]

Hoo, you're right I did a "copy/paste" mistake...
Thanks for notice that.

Now I don't get the Algebraic loop error anymore but i cannot display the
Bode plot, I need to work on it.

Best regards,
Florent



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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Florian

Yes, because of the integration. I'm comparing to the source (the thesis),
Fig. 2.5.

Best regards,
Claus

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 5:56 PM, Florent  wrote:

> Hi Claus,
>
> I multiplied i(t) by Re in order to match with the equation:
> 
> Or in an other form:
> 
>
> What do you mean be omega-dependent?
> Is it because in the integration 1/s, s=jw?
>
> Best regards,
> Florent
>
>
>
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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Florent]

Hi Claus,

I multiplied i(t) by Re in order to match with the equation:
 
Or in an other form:
 

What do you mean be omega-dependent?
Is it because in the integration 1/s, s=jw?

Best regards,
Florent



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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Florian

I loaded the zcos file this morning and compared it to Fig. 2.5 in the
Master Thesis. It looks like your Re-box is connected before the
integrator, which means it becomes omega-dependent. This is not what we
normally do. Did you intend it to be this way? I'm not sure this is
actually your problem - I'm just trying to help - and clear the path.

Best regards,
Claus

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Claus Futtrup  wrote:

> Hi Florian
>
> I see it's a zcos file, but GMAIL downloads it as a zip file. I just
> rename it from zip to zcos, and it loads into Scilab. I'll look at it
> tomorrow. :-)
>
> Best regards,
> Claus
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 8:36 PM, Florent 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Claus,
>>
>> No, unfortunately I didn't get the Simulink files. And we don't have
>> Simulink where I'm working.
>>
>> Here is the zcos file  linear_LS.zcos
>>   .
>>
>> I'm new to Xcos too, I started last week.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Florent
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Team Scilab

I wish I could buy this book in English:
https://www.d-booker.fr/scilab-2-xcos/112-scilab-xcos.html

/Claus

I'm new to Xcos too, I started last week.
>
> Best regards,
> Florent
>
>
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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Florian

I see it's a zcos file, but GMAIL downloads it as a zip file. I just rename
it from zip to zcos, and it loads into Scilab. I'll look at it tomorrow. :-)

Best regards,
Claus


On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 8:36 PM, Florent  wrote:

> Hi Claus,
>
> No, unfortunately I didn't get the Simulink files. And we don't have
> Simulink where I'm working.
>
> Here is the zcos file  linear_LS.zcos
>   .
>
> I'm new to Xcos too, I started last week.
>
> Best regards,
> Florent
>
>
>
> --
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> Lists-Archives-f2602246.html
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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Florent]

Hi Claus,

No, unfortunately I didn't get the Simulink files. And we don't have
Simulink where I'm working.

Here is the zcos file  linear_LS.zcos
  .

I'm new to Xcos too, I started last week.

Best regards,
Florent



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Re: [Scilab-users] Xcos Loudspeaker simulation Algebraic loop and Bode plot

[Claus Futtrup]

Hi Florent

I'm interested in the loudspeaker rmodel (I work in the loudspeaker
industry). The Master Thesis you're referencing to, it uses Matlab. Did you
get hold of the Matlab files? ... Are you simply taking some inspiration
from this Thesis and experimenting with XCOS?

I tried to download your zcos file, but it came as a ZIP file. When
extracted it contains a few files, but no ZCOS file. Appologies if I'm a
lost cause here, since I have no experience with XCOS, even basic stuff
might throw me off. Please explain.

Best regards,
Claus
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