Re: Hyphenation Problems (was RE: AOO-Members dont forget voting)
On 20/07/2013 Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: In some cases, it comes down to having someone around who knows how to fix the problem and has undertaken to do so. The writing tools require an entirely different expertise than working on the source code. Some of them are, by virtue of their licenses, not maintainable directly by the Apache Project. In case someone missed it, the bug is now fixed by an updated dictionary that works on both 3.4.1 and 4.0.0. See https://issues.apache.org/ooo/show_bug.cgi?id=119087 for more. Regards, Andrea. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had thought was fixed. But... The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com wrote: On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had thought was fixed. But... The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. I think the compromise then is with quality. Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs, of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and fixing old bugs. Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing. That, I think, would be very inefficient. We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would allow us to release more frequently as well. I don't think either kind of compromise is what our users really want. IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2 months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done, hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers. Also, a public beta or bug finding contests is not a substitute for formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback. Regards, -Rob Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Good Afternoon Rob Group, I whole heartily agree with your summation. I would much prefer the slower paced actual fixing and additions that worked, then the fastpace maybe it will work and see if the users find the problems the developers missed. I don't stay abreast of LO, since I'm not using LO. My opinion is that there seems to be less to writer then there used to be. the dictionary is now working. Hopefully, a better update can be established so the user doesn't have to figure out whether they have the latest or not. Possibly some way to notify of upcoming updates? I WAS happy with v3.3, but I'm not not a heavy user of AOO, because it isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, especially in the spread sheet department. I need converted xls to work with my AutoCad software, which currently it will not. That's mostly the fault of AutoDesk, who doesn't keep up with new world of office software. I am not one to hang on to expensive Office software because of one program that requires its usage. I am happy that Open Office is alive and progressing at a solid pace of excellence. I'm also ecstatic that its mainline rather then in Incubation, that word gave me the shivers. Take Care. Scooter College Park, MD USA Rob Weir wrote on 7/20/2013 11:33 AM: On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com wrote: On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had thought was fixed. But... The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. I think the compromise then is with quality. Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs, of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and fixing old bugs. Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing. That, I think, would be very inefficient. We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would allow us to release more frequently as well. I don't think either kind of compromise is what our users really want. IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2 months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done, hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers. Also, a public beta or bug finding contests is not a substitute for formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback. Regards, -Rob Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - To
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 3:22 PM, Scooter scoo...@scootersdesk.com wrote: Good Afternoon Rob Group, I whole heartily agree with your summation. I would much prefer the slower paced actual fixing and additions that worked, then the fastpace maybe it will work and see if the users find the problems the developers missed. I don't stay abreast of LO, since I'm not using LO. My opinion is that there seems to be less to writer then there used to be. the dictionary is now working. Hopefully, a better update can be established so the user doesn't have to figure out whether they have the latest or not. Possibly some way to notify of upcoming updates? In OpenOffice you should be able to do a Help/Check for Updates via the menu. Also, OpenOffice 3.4.1 checks for updates every week (by default) and notifies the user if there is an update available. -Rob I WAS happy with v3.3, but I'm not not a heavy user of AOO, because it isn't 100% compatible with Microsoft Office, especially in the spread sheet department. I need converted xls to work with my AutoCad software, which currently it will not. That's mostly the fault of AutoDesk, who doesn't keep up with new world of office software. I am not one to hang on to expensive Office software because of one program that requires its usage. I am happy that Open Office is alive and progressing at a solid pace of excellence. I'm also ecstatic that its mainline rather then in Incubation, that word gave me the shivers. Take Care. Scooter College Park, MD USA Rob Weir wrote on 7/20/2013 11:33 AM: On Sat, Jul 20, 2013 at 7:49 AM, Virgil Arrington cuyfa...@hotmail.com wrote: On Friday July, 19, 2013, Rob Weir wrote: We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. I have complained on the LO user's list of its pace of releasing new versions. There are several to choose from at its download page, and the latest often contains bugs that had been fixed in earlier releases. It can be quite frustrating to download an update only to find a bug that you had thought was fixed. But... The slow pace of development at Apache is equally frustrating. AOO 3.4.1 is a nice program ... except for the inability of the U.S. English version to properly hyphenate words (See bug 119087). This bug has been around for years preventing the use of AOO for serious work in America when hyphenation is required. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that it will be corrected in Ver. 4, but it has been frustrating to wait for Apache to release a new version until it gets everything right. Perhaps some sort of interim release fixing known and critical bugs could be made. Surely there can be some compromise between LO's torrid release pace and AOO's seemingly non-existent pace. I think the compromise then is with quality. Think if it this way: any release has fixed and variable costs. The main fixed cost is testing. Any release, no matter how small, needs to be tested. And given the complexity of AOO (from a code and architecture viewpoint) this means a test of every area of the product. We have over a thousand test cases defined for AOO that we try to run on all major platforms before we release. This is a fixed chunk of work and it can take a couple of months. The variable costs, of course, are the development work that goes into adding features and fixing old bugs. Now, in theory, we could have a release every quarter, but that would mean we do only 1 month of feature work and 2 months of testing. That, I think, would be very inefficient. We could also drop our quality goals and do less testing. Or ship based on dates without any fixed test execution goals. That would allow us to release more frequently as well. I don't think either kind of compromise is what our users really want. IMHO, if we want to release more frequently then we need to find a way to accomplish the same quality goals, but in less time. So cut the 2 months of testing down to 1 months, or even less. This could be done, hypothetically, with more test automation and/or more test volunteers. Also, a public beta or bug finding contests is not a substitute for formal QA. These things tend to be highly redundant, shallow feature testing. But they can be a good way to get early feedback. Regards, -Rob Virgil - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
Am 19.07.2013 13:49, schrieb kalle hauser: for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html ;-) My question to this: it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO 4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public testing of the RC? +1 RCs should announced on annou...@openoffice.apache.org. Regards - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting
On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:49 AM, kalle hauser bugfind...@yahoo.de wrote: for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html ;-) My question to this: it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO 4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public testing of the RC? Like SuperKK on the AOO blog says: You need to work on your PR. Why were there no public beta announcements? The LibreOffice propaganda machine has already convinced many people that OO is dead. Release early, release often. We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. For example, the AOO 4.0 press release already went out. You might not have seen it, but that's the point. Press releases are for the press, so they can write their stories. They want the scoop. We're doing press interviews for AOO 4.0 as well. Remember, if it is on our website then it is not news anymore. So we should not confuse noise with impact. There is an open source echo-chamber, and saying the same tired FUD within that small circle of authors will not convince or convert a single user to move toward or away from OpenOffice. Or at least it will have very little impact compared to the effort. We need to find a way to reach out, beyond the usual suspects and get the news to a new audience. Remember, the growth for AOO is not from those within the open source community. The growth is from those who have never heard of open source. After finishing work on the major-release AOO4, i hope you bring out bugfix-releases more often than all 6 - 8 month. i my opinion bugfixreleases all 3-4 month would be a good intervall... btw: i switched to LO 3.5/3.6, after the OOo-develpoment was on-ice/ incubating, but a comparisen of LO4.0 and AOO3.4.1 shows 1 important thing: You Apache-Guys need longer to bring an new release and implement new features, but the quality of your product seems to be higher I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. Regards, -Rob e.g LO announces improvments on Load/Save-speed over and over angain, but in the end, AOO 3.4.1 starts faster than LO 3.6. The improvments on the docx/xlsx/pptx-filters in LO are also not as good as yours. keep up the good work! regards K. Hauser - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
RE: AOO-Members dont forget voting
I'm repeating myself, but... The AOO crew continues to serve us well -- not only with a quality product but with well-phrased responses to inquiries and problems. I was part of engineering software development, publications, etc, at Big Blue for many years, so I have a soft spot in my heart for you; the volunteers who keep the wheels on with this first-rate offering. Thanks, Guy Gals! Maurice Howe [just a user, but a happy one!] -Original Message- From: Rob Weir [mailto:robw...@apache.org] Sent: Friday, July 19, 2013 4:14 PM To: users@openoffice.apache.org Subject: Re: AOO-Members dont forget voting On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 7:49 AM, kalle hauser bugfind...@yahoo.de wrote: for the RC2 to be released as AOO 4.0 (or even not) on http://www.marshut.com/rrypt/release-openoffice-4-rc2.html ;-) My question to this: it seems, that not one IT-website in the internet knows about a RC of AOO 4. why you dont start a PR-campain for the new AOO 4 and make a public testing of the RC? Like SuperKK on the AOO blog says: You need to work on your PR. Why were there no public beta announcements? The LibreOffice propaganda machine has already convinced many people that OO is dead. Release early, release often. We've discussed AOO 4.0 many times, on the blog and in social media, and this has been covered in the press. Yes, we don't issue a press release every week or every time we change code indentation, like some other projects seem to do. But we do take care of major announcements. For example, the AOO 4.0 press release already went out. You might not have seen it, but that's the point. Press releases are for the press, so they can write their stories. They want the scoop. We're doing press interviews for AOO 4.0 as well. Remember, if it is on our website then it is not news anymore. So we should not confuse noise with impact. There is an open source echo-chamber, and saying the same tired FUD within that small circle of authors will not convince or convert a single user to move toward or away from OpenOffice. Or at least it will have very little impact compared to the effort. We need to find a way to reach out, beyond the usual suspects and get the news to a new audience. Remember, the growth for AOO is not from those within the open source community. The growth is from those who have never heard of open source. After finishing work on the major-release AOO4, i hope you bring out bugfix-releases more often than all 6 - 8 month. i my opinion bugfixreleases all 3-4 month would be a good intervall... btw: i switched to LO 3.5/3.6, after the OOo-develpoment was on-ice/ incubating, but a comparisen of LO4.0 and AOO3.4.1 shows 1 important thing: You Apache-Guys need longer to bring an new release and implement new features, but the quality of your product seems to be higher I think the pace of development is one reason for the better quality. I'd like to release more often as well, but I don't want to compromise on quality. But I think there is room for improvement here. And we are discussing having a public beta for AOO 4.1. Regards, -Rob e.g LO announces improvments on Load/Save-speed over and over angain, but in the end, AOO 3.4.1 starts faster than LO 3.6. The improvments on the docx/xlsx/pptx-filters in LO are also not as good as yours. keep up the good work! regards K. Hauser - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6502 - Release Date: 07/18/13 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@openoffice.apache.org
