Re: [ovirt-users] Remote DB: How do you set server_version?

[Jamie Lawrence]

> On May 3, 2018, at 12:42 AM, Yaniv Kaul  wrote:

> Patches are welcome to improve the way oVirt uses Postgresql, supports 
> various versions, etc.
> Can you give examples for some of the things you'd do differently?

A little pre-ramble - I was trying not to be offensive in talking about this, 
and hope I didn't bother anyone. For the record, if I were supreme dictator of 
the project, I might well make the same choices. Attention is limited, 
DB-flexibility is nowhere near a top-line feature, DB compatibility issues can 
be complex and subtle, and QA is  a limited  resource. I don't know that those 
are the concerns responsible for the current stance, but can totally see good 
reasons as to why things are they way they are.

Anyway, I've been thinking about is an installer mode that treats the DB as 
Someone Else's Problem - it doesn't try to install, configure or monitor it, 
instead leaving all config and responsibility for selecting something that 
works to the administrator. The assumption is that crazy people like me will 
figure out if things won't work against a given version, and over time the list 
will be capable of assuming some of that QA responsibility. That leaves the 
normal path for the bulk of users, and those who want to assume the risk can 
point at their own clusters where the closest running version is almost always 
going to be a point-release or three away from whatever Ovirt tests against and 
configuration is quite different.

What I have not done is written any code. I'd like to, but I'm probably several 
months away from having time.

-j


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Re: [ovirt-users] Remote DB: How do you set server_version?

[Yaniv Kaul]

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Jamie Lawrence 
wrote:

>
> I've been down this road. Postgres won't lie about its version for you.
> If you want to do this, you have to patch the Ovirt installer[1]. I stopped
> trying to use my PG cluster at some point -  the relationship between the
> installer and the product combined with the overly restrictive requirements
> baked into the installer[2]) makes doing so  an ongoing hassle. So I treat
> Ovirt's PG as an black box; disappointing, considering that we are a very
> heavy PG shop with a lot of expertise and automation I can't use with Ovirt.
>
>
Patches are welcome to improve the way oVirt uses Postgresql, supports
various versions, etc.
Can you give examples for some of the things you'd do differently?

If nothing has changed (my notes are from a few versions ago), everything
> you need to correct is in
>
> /usr/share/ovirt-engine/setup/ovirt_engine_setup/engine_
> common/constants.py
>
> Aside from the version, you'll also have to make the knobs for vacuuming
> match those of your current installation, and I think there was another
> configurable for something else I'm not remembering right now.
>
> Be aware that doing so is accepting an ongoing commitment to monkeying
> with the installer a lot. At one time I thought doing so was the right
> tradeoff, but it turns out I  was wrong.
>

At least we can start with documenting their location and default values -
if that's not the case already, and when/why change them.
An ovirt.org blog entry would be welcome too.
Y.


> -j
>
> [1] Or you could rebuild PG with a fake version. That option was
> unavailable here.
> [2] Not criticizing, just stating a technical fact. How folks apportion
> their QA resources is their business.
>
> > On May 2, 2018, at 12:49 PM, ~Stack~  wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Exploring hosting my engine and ovirt_engine_history db's on my
> > dedicated PostgreSQL server.
> >
> > This is a 9.5 install on a beefy box from the postgresql.org yum repos
> > that I'm using for other SQL needs too. 9.5.12 to be exact. I set up the
> > database just as the documentation says and I'm doing a fresh install of
> > my engine-setup.
> >
> > During the install, right after I give it the details for the remote I
> > get this error:
> > [ ERROR ] Please set:
> >  server_version = 9.5.9
> > in postgresql.conf on 'None'. Its location is usually
> > /var/lib/pgsql/data , or somewhere under /etc/postgresql* .
> >
> > Huh?
> >
> > Um. OK.
> > $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
> > server_version = 9.5.9
> >
> > $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
> >
> > LOG:  syntax error in file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> > line 33, n...n ".9"
> > FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> > contains errors
> >
> >
> > Well that didn't work. Let's try something else.
> >
> > $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
> > server_version = 9.5.9
> >
> > $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
> > LOG:  parameter "server_version" cannot be changed
> > FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> > contains errors
> >
> > Whelp. That didn't work either. I can't seem to find anything in the
> > oVirt docs on setting this.
> >
> > How am I supposed to do this?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > ~Stack~
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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>
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Re: [ovirt-users] Remote DB: How do you set server_version?

[Yedidyah Bar David]

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Roy Golan  wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 2 May 2018 at 23:27 Jamie Lawrence 
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I've been down this road. Postgres won't lie about its version for you.
>> If you want to do this, you have to patch the Ovirt installer[1]. I stopped
>> trying to use my PG cluster at some point -  the relationship between the
>> installer and the product combined with the overly restrictive requirements
>> baked into the installer[2]) makes doing so  an ongoing hassle. So I treat
>> Ovirt's PG as an black box; disappointing, considering that we are a very
>> heavy PG shop with a lot of expertise and automation I can't use with Ovirt.

Sorry about that, but not sure it's such a bad choice.

>>
>> If nothing has changed (my notes are from a few versions ago), everything
>> you need to correct is in
>>
>>
>> /usr/share/ovirt-engine/setup/ovirt_engine_setup/engine_common/constants.py
>>
>> Aside from the version, you'll also have to make the knobs for vacuuming
>> match those of your current installation, and I think there was another
>> configurable for something else I'm not remembering right now.
>>
>> Be aware that doing so is accepting an ongoing commitment to monkeying
>> with the installer a lot. At one time I thought doing so was the right
>> tradeoff, but it turns out I  was wrong.
>>
>> -j
>>
>> [1] Or you could rebuild PG with a fake version. That option was
>> unavailable here.
>> [2] Not criticizing, just stating a technical fact. How folks apportion
>> their QA resources is their business.
>>
>> > On May 2, 2018, at 12:49 PM, ~Stack~  wrote:
>> >
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > Exploring hosting my engine and ovirt_engine_history db's on my
>> > dedicated PostgreSQL server.
>> >
>> > This is a 9.5 install on a beefy box from the postgresql.org yum repos
>> > that I'm using for other SQL needs too. 9.5.12 to be exact. I set up the
>> > database just as the documentation says and I'm doing a fresh install of
>> > my engine-setup.
>> >
>> > During the install, right after I give it the details for the remote I
>> > get this error:
>> > [ ERROR ] Please set:
>> >  server_version = 9.5.9
>> > in postgresql.conf on 'None'. Its location is usually
>> > /var/lib/pgsql/data , or somewhere under /etc/postgresql* .
>> >
>> > Huh?
>> >
>
>
> Yes it's annoying and I think +Yaniv Dary opened a bug for it after both of
> got mad at it. Yaniv?

Yaniv did, and I asked for details. Comments are welcome:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1573091

Of course, if it's so annoying, and we are so confident in PG's compatibility
inside z-stream, we can simply lax the test by checking only x.y but changing
no other functionality, and discuss something stronger later on (if at all).

Pushed this for now, didn't verify:

https://gerrit.ovirt.org/90866

Ideally, "verification" isn't merely checking that it works as expected, but
also coming up with means to enhance our confidence that it's indeed safe.

But it might not be such a big risk to merge this anyway, even for 4.2.

>
> Meanwhile let us know if you were able to patch constants.py as suggested.
>
>> > Um. OK.
>> > $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
>> > server_version = 9.5.9
>> >
>> > $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
>> >
>> > LOG:  syntax error in file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
>> > line 33, n...n ".9"
>> > FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
>> > contains errors
>> >
>> >
>> > Well that didn't work. Let's try something else.
>> >
>> > $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
>> > server_version = 9.5.9
>> >
>> > $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
>> > LOG:  parameter "server_version" cannot be changed
>> > FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
>> > contains errors
>> >
>> > Whelp. That didn't work either. I can't seem to find anything in the
>> > oVirt docs on setting this.
>> >
>> > How am I supposed to do this?
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> > ~Stack~
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users@ovirt.org
>> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>> ___
>> Users mailing list
>> Users@ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
> ___
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> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



-- 
Didi
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Re: [ovirt-users] Remote DB: How do you set server_version?

[~Stack~]

On 05/02/2018 03:26 PM, Jamie Lawrence wrote:
> 
> I've been down this road. Postgres won't lie about its version for you.  If 
> you want to do this, you have to patch the Ovirt installer[1]. I stopped 
> trying to use my PG cluster at some point -  the relationship between the 
> installer and the product combined with the overly restrictive requirements 
> baked into the installer[2]) makes doing so  an ongoing hassle. So I treat 
> Ovirt's PG as an black box; disappointing, considering that we are a very 
> heavy PG shop with a lot of expertise and automation I can't use with Ovirt.
> 
> If nothing has changed (my notes are from a few versions ago), everything you 
> need to correct is in
> 
> /usr/share/ovirt-engine/setup/ovirt_engine_setup/engine_common/constants.py
> 
> Aside from the version, you'll also have to make the knobs for vacuuming 
> match those of your current installation, and I think there was another 
> configurable for something else I'm not remembering right now.
> 
> Be aware that doing so is accepting an ongoing commitment to monkeying with 
> the installer a lot. At one time I thought doing so was the right tradeoff, 
> but it turns out I  was wrong.
> 
> -j
> 
> [1] Or you could rebuild PG with a fake version. That option was unavailable 
> here.
> [2] Not criticizing, just stating a technical fact. How folks apportion their 
> QA resources is their business.
>

Yikes! OK. Thanks for the warning. I've got better things to do with my
time. I will just skip this part of exploring. :-)

Thank you!
~Stack~



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Re: [ovirt-users] Remote DB: How do you set server_version?

[Roy Golan]

On Wed, 2 May 2018 at 23:27 Jamie Lawrence 
wrote:

>
> I've been down this road. Postgres won't lie about its version for you.
> If you want to do this, you have to patch the Ovirt installer[1]. I stopped
> trying to use my PG cluster at some point -  the relationship between the
> installer and the product combined with the overly restrictive requirements
> baked into the installer[2]) makes doing so  an ongoing hassle. So I treat
> Ovirt's PG as an black box; disappointing, considering that we are a very
> heavy PG shop with a lot of expertise and automation I can't use with Ovirt.
>
> If nothing has changed (my notes are from a few versions ago), everything
> you need to correct is in
>
> /usr/share/ovirt-engine/setup/ovirt_engine_setup/engine_common/constants.py
>
> Aside from the version, you'll also have to make the knobs for vacuuming
> match those of your current installation, and I think there was another
> configurable for something else I'm not remembering right now.
>
> Be aware that doing so is accepting an ongoing commitment to monkeying
> with the installer a lot. At one time I thought doing so was the right
> tradeoff, but it turns out I  was wrong.
>
> -j
>
> [1] Or you could rebuild PG with a fake version. That option was
> unavailable here.
> [2] Not criticizing, just stating a technical fact. How folks apportion
> their QA resources is their business.
>
> > On May 2, 2018, at 12:49 PM, ~Stack~  wrote:
> >
> > Greetings,
> >
> > Exploring hosting my engine and ovirt_engine_history db's on my
> > dedicated PostgreSQL server.
> >
> > This is a 9.5 install on a beefy box from the postgresql.org yum repos
> > that I'm using for other SQL needs too. 9.5.12 to be exact. I set up the
> > database just as the documentation says and I'm doing a fresh install of
> > my engine-setup.
> >
> > During the install, right after I give it the details for the remote I
> > get this error:
> > [ ERROR ] Please set:
> >  server_version = 9.5.9
> > in postgresql.conf on 'None'. Its location is usually
> > /var/lib/pgsql/data , or somewhere under /etc/postgresql* .
> >
> > Huh?
> >
>

Yes it's annoying and I think +Yaniv Dary  opened a bug
for it after both of got mad at it. Yaniv?

Meanwhile let us know if you were able to patch constants.py as suggested.

> Um. OK.
> > $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
> > server_version = 9.5.9
> >
> > $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
> >
> > LOG:  syntax error in file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> > line 33, n...n ".9"
> > FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> > contains errors
> >
> >
> > Well that didn't work. Let's try something else.
> >
> > $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
> > server_version = 9.5.9
> >
> > $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
> > LOG:  parameter "server_version" cannot be changed
> > FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> > contains errors
> >
> > Whelp. That didn't work either. I can't seem to find anything in the
> > oVirt docs on setting this.
> >
> > How am I supposed to do this?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > ~Stack~
> >
> > ___
> > Users mailing list
> > Users@ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
> ___
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> Users@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
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Re: [ovirt-users] Remote DB: How do you set server_version?

[Jamie Lawrence]

I've been down this road. Postgres won't lie about its version for you.  If you 
want to do this, you have to patch the Ovirt installer[1]. I stopped trying to 
use my PG cluster at some point -  the relationship between the installer and 
the product combined with the overly restrictive requirements baked into the 
installer[2]) makes doing so  an ongoing hassle. So I treat Ovirt's PG as an 
black box; disappointing, considering that we are a very heavy PG shop with a 
lot of expertise and automation I can't use with Ovirt.

If nothing has changed (my notes are from a few versions ago), everything you 
need to correct is in

/usr/share/ovirt-engine/setup/ovirt_engine_setup/engine_common/constants.py

Aside from the version, you'll also have to make the knobs for vacuuming match 
those of your current installation, and I think there was another configurable 
for something else I'm not remembering right now.

Be aware that doing so is accepting an ongoing commitment to monkeying with the 
installer a lot. At one time I thought doing so was the right tradeoff, but it 
turns out I  was wrong.

-j

[1] Or you could rebuild PG with a fake version. That option was unavailable 
here.
[2] Not criticizing, just stating a technical fact. How folks apportion their 
QA resources is their business.

> On May 2, 2018, at 12:49 PM, ~Stack~  wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Exploring hosting my engine and ovirt_engine_history db's on my
> dedicated PostgreSQL server.
> 
> This is a 9.5 install on a beefy box from the postgresql.org yum repos
> that I'm using for other SQL needs too. 9.5.12 to be exact. I set up the
> database just as the documentation says and I'm doing a fresh install of
> my engine-setup.
> 
> During the install, right after I give it the details for the remote I
> get this error:
> [ ERROR ] Please set:
>  server_version = 9.5.9
> in postgresql.conf on 'None'. Its location is usually
> /var/lib/pgsql/data , or somewhere under /etc/postgresql* .
> 
> Huh?
> 
> Um. OK.
> $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
> server_version = 9.5.9
> 
> $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
> 
> LOG:  syntax error in file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> line 33, n...n ".9"
> FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> contains errors
> 
> 
> Well that didn't work. Let's try something else.
> 
> $ grep ^server_version postgresql.conf
> server_version = 9.5.9
> 
> $ systemctl restart postgresql-9.5.service
> LOG:  parameter "server_version" cannot be changed
> FATAL:  configuration file "/var/lib/pgsql/9.5/data/postgresql.conf"
> contains errors
> 
> Whelp. That didn't work either. I can't seem to find anything in the
> oVirt docs on setting this.
> 
> How am I supposed to do this?
> 
> Thanks!
> ~Stack~
> 
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