Re: OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
Chris, > Jerry, > >> On 7/19/19 13:38, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and > Tomcat for over 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything > related to that environment... apache http, mysql, dns > server, the file system, JAMES, and all of my management > scripts that I've accumulated over the years. Everything is > in the same box and basically on the same desktop. But now I > have a client that has needs that are best met in an AWS > environment. >> Can you explain that in a little more depth? What is it about AWS >> that meets their needs better? > >> I ask because you can provision a one-box wonder in AWS just like >> you do on a physical space with a single server. You just have to >> use remote-desktop to get into it, and then it's all the same. > >> But if they want to use RDS, auto-scaling, and other >> Amazon-provided services then things can get confusing. >>> Unfortunately, that is the precise reason we need to go AWS >>> Extremely high availability and scalability / load-balancing >>> across multiple instances. There will need to at least one >>> instance running at all times. Even when doing >>> maintenance/upgrades on other instances. > > It's not "unfortunate" necessarily. At least it makes it clear why > they want to migrate to AWS. > >> So the answer to your question really depends upon what the client >> thinks they'll be getting by you taking your existing product "to >> the cloud". > > I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not > much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, > and I believe I lose the direct file system access. >> That heavily depends upon how you do things. You can get yourself >> a server with a disk and everything, just like you are used to >> doing. >>> Do you mean AWS offers a 'file server' module that I can >>> basically access directly as a drive from TC? If so, that eases >>> my mind a bunch. I manage and serve gigabytes of videos and >>> photos. I don't really want a full CMS implementation. Just >>> want a big hard drive I can get to. > > No, AWS doesn't really have a "file server" module that you can > enable. Do you need a large disk for bulk storage? What are you > storing? Perhaps switching over to a key-value store (which can act > like a filesystem) or a document-store database (e.g. CouchDB) if you > have fairly regular documents that you want to store. All of those > technologies are quite cloud-friendly. You can even use them > single-node if you want to make your application available to either > AWS-based clients OR your more traditional one-box-wonder clients. Or, > you can abstract your "write a file somewhere" process so that you can > swap implementations at run-time: configuration says local-disk? Use > FileWriter. Using CouchDB? Push the file to CouchDB through it's APIs. > What about using EFS (NFS store) in this environment? For Windows, an NFS client would have to be installed, but that doesn't seem like much of a barrier. > > I've watched an AWS intro video and a couple of youtube > videos on setting up TC in AWS. But they always starts with > "now that you have your AWS environment set up". I am > looking for something that explains the big picture of > migrating an existing WAMP+TC to AWS. I am not so naive to > think that there won't be significant rip-up to what I have > now. But I don't want to do unnecessary rip-up just because I > don't understand where I'm heading. Basically, I don't know > enough to know what I don't know But I need to start > planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to have any > disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose > with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated > environment. > > Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to > some tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or > possible hand-hold me just a little...? I'm a pretty quick > learner. I just don't know where to start. >> As usual, start with your requirements :) > >>> Requirements are what I have now in a single box, but with the >>> addition of multiple instances of TC (and HTTPD and/or mySQL?) >>> for HA and load balancing. > > One box with multi is ... not HA. Sorry. That allows you to do things > like upgrade the application without taking it down completely. But it > does not allow you to perform maintenance on the OS because everything > has to come down. > >>> Day-1 launch won't be massive traffic and theoretically could be >>> handled by my single dedicated server I have today. But if this >>> takes off like the client predicts, I don't want to get caught >>> flat-footed and have to throw together an emergency redesign to >>> begin clustering TC to handle the traffic. Rather go live >>> initially with single instance AWS, but with a thought-out (and >>>
Re: OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, > On 7/19/19 13:38, Jerry Malcolm wrote: I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and Tomcat for over 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything related to that environment... apache http, mysql, dns server, the file system, JAMES, and all of my management scripts that I've accumulated over the years. Everything is in the same box and basically on the same desktop. But now I have a client that has needs that are best met in an AWS environment. > Can you explain that in a little more depth? What is it about AWS > that meets their needs better? > > I ask because you can provision a one-box wonder in AWS just like > you do on a physical space with a single server. You just have to > use remote-desktop to get into it, and then it's all the same. > > But if they want to use RDS, auto-scaling, and other > Amazon-provided services then things can get confusing. >> Unfortunately, that is the precise reason we need to go AWS >> Extremely high availability and scalability / load-balancing >> across multiple instances. There will need to at least one >> instance running at all times. Even when doing >> maintenance/upgrades on other instances. It's not "unfortunate" necessarily. At least it makes it clear why they want to migrate to AWS. > So the answer to your question really depends upon what the client > thinks they'll be getting by you taking your existing product "to > the cloud". > I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, and I believe I lose the direct file system access. > That heavily depends upon how you do things. You can get yourself > a server with a disk and everything, just like you are used to > doing. >> Do you mean AWS offers a 'file server' module that I can >> basically access directly as a drive from TC? If so, that eases >> my mind a bunch. I manage and serve gigabytes of videos and >> photos. I don't really want a full CMS implementation. Just >> want a big hard drive I can get to. No, AWS doesn't really have a "file server" module that you can enable. Do you need a large disk for bulk storage? What are you storing? Perhaps switching over to a key-value store (which can act like a filesystem) or a document-store database (e.g. CouchDB) if you have fairly regular documents that you want to store. All of those technologies are quite cloud-friendly. You can even use them single-node if you want to make your application available to either AWS-based clients OR your more traditional one-box-wonder clients. Or, you can abstract your "write a file somewhere" process so that you can swap implementations at run-time: configuration says local-disk? Use FileWriter. Using CouchDB? Push the file to CouchDB through it's APIs. I've watched an AWS intro video and a couple of youtube videos on setting up TC in AWS. But they always starts with "now that you have your AWS environment set up". I am looking for something that explains the big picture of migrating an existing WAMP+TC to AWS. I am not so naive to think that there won't be significant rip-up to what I have now. But I don't want to do unnecessary rip-up just because I don't understand where I'm heading. Basically, I don't know enough to know what I don't know But I need to start planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to have any disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated environment. Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to some tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or possible hand-hold me just a little...? I'm a pretty quick learner. I just don't know where to start. > As usual, start with your requirements :) > >> Requirements are what I have now in a single box, but with the >> addition of multiple instances of TC (and HTTPD and/or mySQL?) >> for HA and load balancing. One box with multi is ... not HA. Sorry. That allows you to do things like upgrade the application without taking it down completely. But it does not allow you to perform maintenance on the OS because everything has to come down. >> Day-1 launch won't be massive traffic and theoretically could be >> handled by my single dedicated server I have today. But if this >> takes off like the client predicts, I don't want to get caught >> flat-footed and have to throw together an emergency redesign to >> begin clustering TC to handle the traffic. Rather go live >> initially with single instance AWS, but with a thought-out (and >> tested/verified) plan to easily begin clustering when the need >> hits. One of the first things I'd take a look at is what it would take to switch from vanilla MySQL to one of the databases available through RDS. This sounds stupid:
Re: OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
> Jerry, > > On 7/19/19 13:38, Jerry Malcolm wrote: I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and Tomcat for over 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything related to that environment... apache http, mysql, dns server, the file system, JAMES, and all of my management scripts that I've accumulated over the years. Everything is in the same box and basically on the same desktop. But now I have a client that has needs that are best met in an AWS environment. > Can you explain that in a little more depth? What is it about AWS that > meets their needs better? > > I ask because you can provision a one-box wonder in AWS just like you > do on a physical space with a single server. You just have to use > remote-desktop to get into it, and then it's all the same. > > But if they want to use RDS, auto-scaling, and other Amazon-provided > services then things can get confusing. >> Unfortunately, that is the precise reason we need to go AWS >> Extremely high availability and scalability / load-balancing across >> multiple instances. There will need to at least one instance running at >> all times. Even when doing maintenance/upgrades on other instances. > > So the answer to your question really depends upon what the client > thinks they'll be getting by you taking your existing product "to the > cloud". > I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, and I believe I lose the direct file system access. > That heavily depends upon how you do things. You can get yourself a > server with a disk and everything, just like you are used to doing. >> Do you mean AWS offers a 'file server' module that I can basically >> access directly as a drive from TC? If so, that eases my mind a bunch. >> I manage and serve gigabytes of videos and photos. I don't really want >> a full CMS implementation. Just want a big hard drive I can get to. > I've watched an AWS intro video and a couple of youtube videos on setting up TC in AWS. But they always starts with "now that you have your AWS environment set up". I am looking for something that explains the big picture of migrating an existing WAMP+TC to AWS. I am not so naive to think that there won't be significant rip-up to what I have now. But I don't want to do unnecessary rip-up just because I don't understand where I'm heading. Basically, I don't know enough to know what I don't know But I need to start planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to have any disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated environment. Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to some tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or possible hand-hold me just a little...? I'm a pretty quick learner. I just don't know where to start. > As usual, start with your requirements :) > >> Requirements are what I have now in a single box, but with the addition >> of multiple instances of TC (and HTTPD and/or mySQL?) for HA and load >> balancing. Day-1 launch won't be massive traffic and theoretically >> could be handled by my single dedicated server I have today. But if >> this takes off like the client predicts, I don't want to get caught >> flat-footed and have to throw together an emergency redesign to begin >> clustering TC to handle the traffic. Rather go live initially with >> single instance AWS, but with a thought-out (and tested/verified) plan >> to easily begin clustering when the need hits. > >> Thanks again for the info. > > > -chris There are a lot of ways to approach this. I'm not sure how much is viable under Windows, since I've only done Linux EC2 instances. Load balancing: You can't do multicasting (last I checked) in a cloud environment. You'll need to use something like redis or memcache if you need to support sessions / load balancing without sticky sessions. I recommend steering away from sticky sessions because that complicates outages / maintenance. Database: I'd look at RDS and multiple instances across availability zones. There are some issues with fail-over and the time it takes. Look at recent AWS forums for work-arounds. Disks: I think that one good design (if you can't do Docker or Elastic Beanstalk) is to place all of your tools on an EBS volume. You can mount this on Windows (I think - works with Linux), and access all of your services from there. There are several advantages to this. Backups are done by doing snapshots of unmounted disks. You basically do the following: 1. Disconnect an instance from a load balancer 2. Unmount the driver from the instance 3. Perform the snapshot command 4. Once the snapshot command returns, remount the drive 5. Add the instance back to the load balancer Server instances: In a cloud environment, server
Re: OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
Christopher, On 7/19/2019 1:40 PM, Christopher Schultz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 7/19/19 13:38, Jerry Malcolm wrote: I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and Tomcat for over 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything related to that environment... apache http, mysql, dns server, the file system, JAMES, and all of my management scripts that I've accumulated over the years. Everything is in the same box and basically on the same desktop. But now I have a client that has needs that are best met in an AWS environment. Can you explain that in a little more depth? What is it about AWS that meets their needs better? I ask because you can provision a one-box wonder in AWS just like you do on a physical space with a single server. You just have to use remote-desktop to get into it, and then it's all the same. But if they want to use RDS, auto-scaling, and other Amazon-provided services then things can get confusing. Unfortunately, that is the precise reason we need to go AWS Extremely high availability and scalability / load-balancing across multiple instances. There will need to at least one instance running at all times. Even when doing maintenance/upgrades on other instances. So the answer to your question really depends upon what the client thinks they'll be getting by you taking your existing product "to the cloud". I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, and I believe I lose the direct file system access. That heavily depends upon how you do things. You can get yourself a server with a disk and everything, just like you are used to doing. Do you mean AWS offers a 'file server' module that I can basically access directly as a drive from TC? If so, that eases my mind a bunch. I manage and serve gigabytes of videos and photos. I don't really want a full CMS implementation. Just want a big hard drive I can get to. I've watched an AWS intro video and a couple of youtube videos on setting up TC in AWS. But they always starts with "now that you have your AWS environment set up". I am looking for something that explains the big picture of migrating an existing WAMP+TC to AWS. I am not so naive to think that there won't be significant rip-up to what I have now. But I don't want to do unnecessary rip-up just because I don't understand where I'm heading. Basically, I don't know enough to know what I don't know But I need to start planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to have any disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated environment. Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to some tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or possible hand-hold me just a little...? I'm a pretty quick learner. I just don't know where to start. As usual, start with your requirements :) Requirements are what I have now in a single box, but with the addition of multiple instances of TC (and HTTPD and/or mySQL?) for HA and load balancing. Day-1 launch won't be massive traffic and theoretically could be handled by my single dedicated server I have today. But if this takes off like the client predicts, I don't want to get caught flat-footed and have to throw together an emergency redesign to begin clustering TC to handle the traffic. Rather go live initially with single instance AWS, but with a thought-out (and tested/verified) plan to easily begin clustering when the need hits. Thanks again for the info. - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/ iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEMmKgYcQvxMe7tcJcHPApP6U8pFgFAl0yDpIACgkQHPApP6U8 pFj5GA/+Pr+CXtOGTYsZqCWVT7KYqvAulyyyZsHOvS2oaiapjrsWORYA5rzS478y TE+rMAUc7ep0RToW1ZCAhtyKi+M1vfIwGu6qkFA6NCBWKL92I8jaFw+j/pDJ0mSJ sfv0OGu8hAmQwy2FCpscgFR9PBKNzJN3o5OhR0cp1g0i6/J5Ci9xkn92KVAv1ZIU WjY+WrE9tcqtASHjO/wS53YreHlXoPLSzhpbjwje/HzKkBYXRV9dRIpHLnOSNc6t +5LhnLghVR27J3n/w1xFeO8kM3SBySuCHhUGTNCKdxMlrprxCIwZjvgLwHBxwv17 tK6NOxmuk4xsi7vrKGhR/PWYHuTMNrYkWwD3Hv2vskwqo4RioIOaseoXBGHYy/WN iDwN6viSzSCqivP+MLBGi00Xo3LFdJZu+DMufX05SYJvRxxO6yaNMxING7zr9ubJ ossrDNIkHSDs4J0SAvzYidfPCOUbRWvHI6dYLkqsieRk7pWp2JPSWBWKuisllBnP VOv4IaVfZNHGE5TmkWElKE8Cbyj8xxSerFN15RjoawmwnnP9c1L8LirTi/l7GEQN HlQfNFP+evIbGpPOrcUpZJa5sjfePeUl+jJj08DPw0djyG3K3tAcBQTO4LjqsKTC g1phEO502BxE8v1UPTpEYXGfxhvMSirvjC37lXbTabNo3R4Tbt4= =SUFA -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Jerry, On 7/19/19 13:38, Jerry Malcolm wrote: > I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and Tomcat for > over 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything related to that > environment... apache http, mysql, dns server, the file system, > JAMES, and all of my management scripts that I've accumulated over > the years. Everything is in the same box and basically on the same > desktop. But now I have a client that has needs that are best met > in an AWS environment. Can you explain that in a little more depth? What is it about AWS that meets their needs better? I ask because you can provision a one-box wonder in AWS just like you do on a physical space with a single server. You just have to use remote-desktop to get into it, and then it's all the same. But if they want to use RDS, auto-scaling, and other Amazon-provided services then things can get confusing. So the answer to your question really depends upon what the client thinks they'll be getting by you taking your existing product "to the cloud". > I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not > much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, and I > believe I lose the direct file system access. That heavily depends upon how you do things. You can get yourself a server with a disk and everything, just like you are used to doing. > I've watched an AWS intro video and a couple of youtube videos on > setting up TC in AWS. But they always starts with "now that you > have your AWS environment set up". I am looking for something > that explains the big picture of migrating an existing WAMP+TC to > AWS. I am not so naive to think that there won't be significant > rip-up to what I have now. But I don't want to do unnecessary > rip-up just because I don't understand where I'm heading. > Basically, I don't know enough to know what I don't know But I > need to start planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to have > any disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose > with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated > environment. > > Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to some > tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or possible > hand-hold me just a little...? I'm a pretty quick learner. I just > don't know where to start. As usual, start with your requirements :) - -chris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - https://www.enigmail.net/ iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEMmKgYcQvxMe7tcJcHPApP6U8pFgFAl0yDpIACgkQHPApP6U8 pFj5GA/+Pr+CXtOGTYsZqCWVT7KYqvAulyyyZsHOvS2oaiapjrsWORYA5rzS478y TE+rMAUc7ep0RToW1ZCAhtyKi+M1vfIwGu6qkFA6NCBWKL92I8jaFw+j/pDJ0mSJ sfv0OGu8hAmQwy2FCpscgFR9PBKNzJN3o5OhR0cp1g0i6/J5Ci9xkn92KVAv1ZIU WjY+WrE9tcqtASHjO/wS53YreHlXoPLSzhpbjwje/HzKkBYXRV9dRIpHLnOSNc6t +5LhnLghVR27J3n/w1xFeO8kM3SBySuCHhUGTNCKdxMlrprxCIwZjvgLwHBxwv17 tK6NOxmuk4xsi7vrKGhR/PWYHuTMNrYkWwD3Hv2vskwqo4RioIOaseoXBGHYy/WN iDwN6viSzSCqivP+MLBGi00Xo3LFdJZu+DMufX05SYJvRxxO6yaNMxING7zr9ubJ ossrDNIkHSDs4J0SAvzYidfPCOUbRWvHI6dYLkqsieRk7pWp2JPSWBWKuisllBnP VOv4IaVfZNHGE5TmkWElKE8Cbyj8xxSerFN15RjoawmwnnP9c1L8LirTi/l7GEQN HlQfNFP+evIbGpPOrcUpZJa5sjfePeUl+jJj08DPw0djyG3K3tAcBQTO4LjqsKTC g1phEO502BxE8v1UPTpEYXGfxhvMSirvjC37lXbTabNo3R4Tbt4= =SUFA -END PGP SIGNATURE- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
Re: OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
My advice when it comes to making your setup environment-agnostic: Docker'ize it. I haven't used Docker on AWS, but once you have an image running locally you can be 98% sure it's gonna run on the server (e.g. mounting files from host can cause some differences still, so best to avoid that). See if it makes sense: https://aws.amazon.com/docker/ On Fri, Jul 19, 2019 at 8:39 PM Jerry Malcolm wrote: > > I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and Tomcat for over > 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything related to that > environment... apache http, mysql, dns server, the file system, JAMES, > and all of my management scripts that I've accumulated over the years. > Everything is in the same box and basically on the same desktop. But > now I have a client that has needs that are best met in an AWS > environment. I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not > much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, and I > believe I lose the direct file system access. I've watched an AWS intro > video and a couple of youtube videos on setting up TC in AWS. But they > always starts with "now that you have your AWS environment set > up". I am looking for something that explains the big picture of > migrating an existing WAMP+TC to AWS. I am not so naive to think that > there won't be significant rip-up to what I have now. But I don't want > to do unnecessary rip-up just because I don't understand where I'm > heading. Basically, I don't know enough to know what I don't know > But I need to start planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to > have any disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose > with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated environment. > > Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to some > tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or possible hand-hold me > just a little...? I'm a pretty quick learner. I just don't know where > to start. > > Thanks. > > Jerry > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
OT: Tomcat on AWS for Dummies
I have had a dedicated hosted environment with WAMP and Tomcat for over 15 years. I'm very familiar with everything related to that environment... apache http, mysql, dns server, the file system, JAMES, and all of my management scripts that I've accumulated over the years. Everything is in the same box and basically on the same desktop. But now I have a client that has needs that are best met in an AWS environment. I understand just enough AWS to be dangerous, which is not much I do know that it's a bunch of different modules, and I believe I lose the direct file system access. I've watched an AWS intro video and a couple of youtube videos on setting up TC in AWS. But they always starts with "now that you have your AWS environment set up". I am looking for something that explains the big picture of migrating an existing WAMP+TC to AWS. I am not so naive to think that there won't be significant rip-up to what I have now. But I don't want to do unnecessary rip-up just because I don't understand where I'm heading. Basically, I don't know enough to know what I don't know But I need to start planning ahead and learning soon if I'm going to have any disasters in my code where I might have played it too loose with accessing the file system directly in my dedicated environment. Has anyone been down this path before and could point me to some tutorials targeted to migrating WAMP+TC to AWS? Or possible hand-hold me just a little...? I'm a pretty quick learner. I just don't know where to start. Thanks. Jerry - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tomcat.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tomcat.apache.org
