@Alex Objelean Igor Vanyberg-2
Yea, my bad on just posting something up here without looking at any
previous posts. Look, it was my rant and how I felt about things at the
time. Nothing personal. This was actually the clean version for public
consumption. It was probably still too rude
I didn't have a look one the wicket books for quite while. Good you told
us. I orderered yours yesterday on Amazon. :)
2011/11/18 Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com
* there are three books written about wicket: two for beginners and
one for intermediate-advanced users.
* there is a
Super cool list, thanks a lot.
2011/11/18 robert.mcguinness robert.mcguinness@gmail.com
i'm baffled when people say the documentation is poor, the javadocs are
excellent and like igor said there are some great books (blogs too!).
books
and blogs get outdated fast since technlogy is
@Alex Objelean Igor Vanyberg-2
Yea, my bad on just posting something up here without looking at any
previous posts. Look, it was my rant and how I felt about things at the
time. Nothing personal. This was actually the clean version for public
consumption. It was probably still too rude
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Eric Kizaki erickiz...@gmail.com wrote:
LOL! You know Eleco Hilenius wrote the “Wicket in Action” book? For some
reason I can't stop laughing. Now everyone is going to think you are a
badass at work. The book is decent, but it would be nice if the next
Hi Igor,
You have valid points. I've not built a Wicket app yet to compare, so I
can't honestly say. My intuition knowing about how session replication
occurs to provide at least fault tolerance does however make me believe that
in the end, wicket will scale much less than a stateless app with
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 6:40 PM, jlazeraski
supreme_java_gur...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi Igor,
You have valid points. I've not built a Wicket app yet to compare, so I
can't honestly say. My intuition knowing about how session replication
occurs to provide at least fault tolerance does however make
Why this business about component nesting keeps coming up is really beyond
me. If you're running into non-trivial problems with keeping component
nesting in sync, you really need to stop what you're doing and back up a
step or two because you're definitely looking through the wrong end of the
On Fri, 2011-11-18 at 06:27 -0800, Eric Kizaki wrote:
I was not expecting so much hate. I guess now I am infamous in the Java
world now. Look, it is just my opinion. Not many people actually stopped
to address many of my points. They just immediately bashed me.
I did not bother to
Really, is this what you do, go around posting to user lists of
frameworks you don't like? I imagine one can have a full time job
doing that.
Eelco
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Eric Kizaki erickiz...@gmail.com wrote:
Violates Dry: You must repeat the component hierarchy of your widgets
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:27 AM, Eric Kizaki erickiz...@gmail.com wrote:
I was not expecting so much hate. I guess now I am infamous in the Java
world now. Look, it is just my opinion. Not many people actually stopped
to address many of my points. They just immediately bashed me.
Like
Hey all,
Wanted to weigh in on the subject as I have some similar feelings regarding
Wicket and since so many experienced have posted perhaps they can be
addressed.
I will however include some positives. I absolutely love the idea of the
templated html page where by a web designer can build up
I think all of us were frustrated a lot more than once during our career
and decided to rant about it. I do think Eric's comments were actually made
to be contradicted by the experienced people here so that he could learn
more about Wicket and so take something out of it. It showed passion for
the
Another area I am not keen with at all with wicket which is mentioned
is
having to build the object tree code the same way the html page is.
With
element Ids, I am a little confused as to why we cant simply insert the
component using the element id and let wicket figure out where to stick
it
on
Hey Jeremy, thanks for the info.
I am having a hard time seeing how Wicket uses less memory if for each
user/page it keeps a DOM tree of objects in memory + any model data for that
page.. where at least in my struts2 apps, there is nothing in memory on the
server side.. only when a request comes
Cristi,
Oh how I miss Swing! That is one of the main reasons I took a look at
Wicket.. I loved Swing. I still don't get why so many people feel Swing
wasn't a good UI to develop in. Threading was a bit tricky, but workable if
you knew how to deal with it. The event system was fantastic, and while
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 9:20 PM, jlazeraski
supreme_java_gur...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hey Jeremy, thanks for the info.
I am having a hard time seeing how Wicket uses less memory if for each
user/page it keeps a DOM tree of objects in memory + any model data for that
page.. where at least in my
Again address the content and not the speaker. I prompted him to post this to
get some good feedback on why Wicket is a better alternative than the UI
frameworks than we have come across.
Frameworks in the ui space are numerous and all serve a different need or
perspective.
If all you have
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 4:52 PM, jlazeraski
supreme_java_gur...@yahoo.com wrote:
The big one for me is the server side statefulness. Maybe I misunderstood
this, but I am really worried about the ability for Wicket to scale given
that it keeps per user object trees in memory for the page the
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 4:52 PM, jlazeraski
supreme_java_gur...@yahoo.com wrote:
Another area I am not keen with at all with wicket which is mentioned is
having to build the object tree code the same way the html page is. With
element Ids, I am a little confused as to why we cant simply insert
On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 9:31 PM, sthomps stho...@gmail.com wrote:
Again address the content and not the speaker. I prompted him to post this
to get some good feedback on why Wicket is a better alternative than the UI
frameworks than we have come across.
* the email was written as a
On 17/11/11 16:44, Eric Kizaki wrote:
Violates MVC: It smashes view and controller code into the same Java file.
You have code that regulates page flow and code that changes css attributes
in the same file. Even Spring MVC had better separation of concerns.
JSP/Servlets with Spring MVC is
Breaks POJOS: A real POJO does not need to implement an interface or
extend a class.
A object oriented framework is a foundation on which you extend your
application. Back in the C++ world there was MFC, OWL, .Net, etc., In
the Java world there was AWT and then Swing etc.,. All event driven,
well, I have nothing against writing my own SQL with spring;]
but it is true that before I read wicket in action I was like a child in fog :/
after JSP I started palying with tapestry and tapestry has a bit
better introduction pages. it is not that there is not enough
information around but
Hi,
On Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:04:39 +0100
kamiseq kami...@gmail.com wrote:
K but it is true that before I read wicket in action I was like a
K child in fog :/
I totally agree with that.
I'm just starting with wicket and without the book I think I would have
dumped it because there is not much
If you come here and try to start a flame about how bad Wicket is while you
obviously have no clue how it works then atleast have the decency to write a
propert post instead of a lame list of cons (and no pros) and a oneliner saying
Spring MVC is the only other option...
Hielke
-Original
I started with the book wicket in action so it was ok. Before choosing a
technology I look at the number of existing books and I buy the best one.
But I'm not sure that every body does like me.
My main problem is the wiki. The pages are often very old explaining things
that do not apply with the
Gaetan;
I also like starting from a book. Then read the (scattered) docs and wiki
when am looking for a solution to specific issues. Some projects have an
official user guide that is downloadable as pdf or read online as html. I
know documentation is one of the the most boring tasks for
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Eric Kizaki erickiz...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to vent your frustrations. I don't see any
reason to start to ridicule you, or to think you are an incapable
developer just because you don't like Wicket and have taken the time
to get it off your
I have tried out the Wicket framework and many things I really like about it.
Some observations:
- Wicket changes drastically between versions, and even between minor
versions / release candidates, things suddenly disappear from the API,
sometimes without having been flagged as deprecated ;
-
- did not yet try out Ajax with Wicket, so I have no opinion on that
In my opinion, ajax is the killer feature. Give it a try.
Josh.
On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 3:07 PM, heikki tropic...@gmail.com wrote:
I have tried out the Wicket framework and many things I really like about
it.
Some
Hi all!
Thanks for this list, Rob!
Not that there would be any more to say except:
* I've never seen so informative and extremely helpfull Exception/Error
messages in any framework or tool so far.
Thank you!
* Concerning the ugly URLs: well, I don't think that the real users
out there bother so
I was searching for a Java framework two years ago because I wanted
server-side persistence and a statically typed language with the option
for easy AJAX and debugging while the output markup is largely
maintained the way I wrote the templates.
I think I found Wicket via DZone due to the 1.4
I was not expecting so much hate. I guess now I am infamous in the Java
world now. Look, it is just my opinion. Not many people actually stopped
to address many of my points. They just immediately bashed me.
I am sticking with Wicket because it is required for work. I am able to do
stuff in
That's actually interesting you feel that way because I was just making the
comment that I was surprised at how little hate was being displayed. Sure
there are a couple here and there, but par for the internet is far, far
lower (higher? maybe a golf analogy was a bad idea) than what we're seeing
heikki wrote:
- and in my opinion the stuff you need to do to achieve normal URLs (no
?, no version number, no nothing) is just a pain. *Every* URL, for
stateless or stateless pages or whatever, should be normal, otherwise it
is just not acceptable -- users never want to see those
The Play Framework has the right idea: stateless and restful.
No clunky components and over-engineered objected-oriented baggage.
Play has some advantages but also shortcomings and presents significant
risks. The transition from version 1 to version 2 will require re-writing
the code. No
i will address some points that i dont think have been addressed yet...
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:44 AM, Eric Kizaki erickiz...@gmail.com wrote:
Violates Dry: You must repeat the component hierarchy of your widgets that
are in HTML in Java Code for no good reason. If you move your widget
does a lot of the work for you. That is good or bad depending on
what your requirements are.
-Original Message-
From: Igor Vaynberg [mailto:igor.vaynb...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 1:50 PM
To: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Wicket is a Flawed Framework
i
First of all, sorry for my previous comment. It was wrong judging you instead
discussing the points addressed in your post. Nevertheless, nobody hates you
for your opinion :). This kind of posts appears from time to time and there
is nothing wrong with them as long as these address valid issues
Needless to say, I don't particularly agree with most of the criticisms
listed.
And for the right job, Java isn't half as bad as you seem to think. I'd say
the trouble is Java vs. the JDK (and other libraries). While Java itself is
still reasonably cool, there is a lot of real crap out there.
Thanks for the laugh. Where are the irony tags?
Sven
Am 17.11.2011 16:44, schrieb Eric Kizaki:
Violates Dry: You must repeat the component hierarchy of your widgets that
are in HTML in Java Code for no good reason. If you move your widget around
in the html it will break the Java and you get
Ah, it's been a while since a JSF/JSP zealot bothered to annoy Wicket users.
Now go away and cook up a tag library or five.
- Tor Iver
I'm curious why you wasted your time if you have already determined
that Stateful,
component-based frameworks are a terrible idea. Html5 + jQuery + Restlet
is over -- http://www.restlet.org/
No framework is for everyone or even the best solution for every problem.
If you have real suggestions
I am just a user of Wicket, but this make me laugh, since we are
desperately trying to get out of the JSP nightmare and have found
Wicket a quite nice framework. Nice.
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org
Is this April fool's day? Seriously?
--
View this message in context:
http://apache-wicket.1842946.n4.nabble.com/Apache-Wicket-is-a-Flawed-Framework-tp4080411p4081149.html
Sent from the Users forum mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
This is not an april fool's day, it is just an opinion of an
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-kizaki/30/2b1/1a4 inexperienced developer .
Eric, if you have troubles in understanding wicket, you are definitely doing
it wrong. Wicket is not a silver bullet, but it is a great tool when
comparing to
Ooohh... I better double check what I'm writing on this list, Since the FBI
is around ... ;)
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Alex Objelean alex.objel...@gmail.comwrote:
This is not an april fool's day, it is just an opinion of an
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-kizaki/30/2b1/1a4
This is not an april fool's day, it is just an opinion of an inexperienced
developer.
This illustrates one of the traditional logical fallacies. If you can't
effectively attack the argument, attack the speaker.
My biggest problem with Wicket is that I haven't found any documentation on
the web
@wicket.apache.org
Date: 11/17/2011 02:54 PM
Subject:Re: Apache Wicket is a Flawed Framework
This is not an april fool's day, it is just an opinion of an
inexperienced
developer.
This illustrates one of the traditional logical fallacies. If you can't
effectively attack the argument
: Apache Wicket is a Flawed Framework
Sent: Nov 17, 2011 12:05 PM
This is not an april fool's day, it is just an opinion of an inexperienced
developer.
This illustrates one of the traditional logical fallacies. If you can't
effectively attack the argument, attack the speaker.
My biggest problem
newer so obviously
it will take a bit.
--Original Message--
From: geraldkw
To: users@wicket.apache.org
ReplyTo: users@wicket.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Wicket is a Flawed Framework
Sent: Nov 17, 2011 12:05 PM
This is not an april fool's day, it is just an opinion
I must admit that I agree with you. While I think Wicket is a
great framework, the documentation is not up to par. This tool seems a
little too elitist. If you're strong enough you will find
a great framework. It's a shame because even if the mailing list is very
effective it slows down the
You might/might not be right about documentation. This is usually true
of most frameworks when you move from the Hello World program to a
real life app.
The original message said little to nothing about documentations. It
is basically comparing Wicket to JSPs, and saying JSP are better. It
might
* there are three books written about wicket: two for beginners and
one for intermediate-advanced users.
* there is a searchable mailing list archive that spans years upon
years of users asking questions and getting answers.
* there is a wiki that lists examples and has some good articles.
* there
i'm baffled when people say the documentation is poor, the javadocs are
excellent and like igor said there are some great books (blogs too!). books
and blogs get outdated fast since technlogy is rapidly advancing, so *use
the source luke!*. Not only will you learn Wicket, but I guarantee your
As gerald mentioned address the content - not the speaker, much more
effective.
i'll address a few of your points and bring up a few of my own. I'm sure
the others can be addressed with thoughtful/intelligent responses.
*Violates DRY*: There is a reason that HTML is separated from your
Currently a link to this mail is the most popular on dzone:
http://www.dzone.com/links/apache_wicket_is_a_flawed_framework.html
Attila
I really liked the comment by javakata on that post. Counters every
argument with a counter-example and doesn't attack the speaker once.
2011/11/18 Attila Király kiralyattila...@gmail.com:
Currently a link to this mail is the most popular on dzone:
Sensational news are always a hit, even when not true.
Any tool can be misused. With great power comes great responsibility.
-Nino
2011/11/18 Attila Király kiralyattila...@gmail.com
Currently a link to this mail is the most popular on dzone:
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