Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Bruno Negro wrote: Hi all, I have to solve the famous problem of splitting a unique domain into 2 remote machines. One machine gonna be the MX for the domain but will contain only part of the e-mail accounts. The other half of the e-mail accounts will be configured in the other server. Creating two subdomains *is not a valid alternative* for me. I can't see how you could actually want this. Are you planning on then putting some sort of imap proxy in front of the box to direct logins to the correct place? What does this do for you that a cluster with shared storage doesn't? Is it possibleto do thiselegantly with vpopmail? Until now, the most elegant solution i have seen is using Qmail + qmail-ldap patch + Open LDAP. In this scenario, vpopmailwouldn'tbe used. I know there is also a vpopmail-ldap patch, but i understood that it doesn't foresee the case of splitting a domain into two different servers. Thanks in advance, bnegrao I wish I could offer a solution directly to your question, but it definitely looks like you're attacking the problem in a less than optimal way. Cheers, Nick Harring Webley Systems
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
I can't see how you could actually want this. Are you planning on then putting some sort of imap proxy in front of the box to direct logins to the correct place? What does this do for you that a cluster with shared storage doesn't? Hi Nick, What a "cluster with shared storage" means? Where can i learn moreabout this topic? bruno
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Bruno Negro wrote: I can't see how you could actually want this. Are you planning on then putting some sort of imap proxy in front of the box to direct logins to the correct place? What does this do for you that a cluster with shared storage doesn't? Hi Nick, What a "cluster with shared storage" means? Where can i learn moreabout this topic? bruno Bruno - You can simply have an NFS server, or CIFS or whatever, that the vpopmail domain directories are mounted from. Search the archives of this list for cluster and you'll find several people describing the setup they use. Its much, much easier to scale a domain that way than splitting it across servers with each mailbox being mapped to only one server. Hope that helps, Nick
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Pra que voce quer fazer isto Bruno ? - Original Message - From: Bruno Negrão To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines? I can't see how you could actually want this. Are you planning on then putting some sort of imap proxy in front of the box to direct logins to the correct place? What does this do for you that a cluster with shared storage doesn't? Hi Nick, What a "cluster with shared storage" means? Where can i learn moreabout this topic? bruno
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Nick, The qmail-ldap patch appears to offer a clean solution for this problem since it creates an ldap for the email accounts that can be share amongst the corporate email servers. When qmail-ldap wants to deliver a message to a local user, it checks in the ldap database for the properti "mailhost" of that user. The mailhost property sets the host where the maildir of that account is physically configured. Then, the e-mail is forwarded to that host. There is a document called "Life with Qmail-Ldap", in http://www.lifewithqmail.org/ldap/, that makes an introduction about the new capabilities gained when integrating qmail + an ldap database. Bellow, i cut and pasted this introduction: "Lightweight Directory Access Protocol, or LDAP, is a very useful tool in administration of large networks and organizations. It is a database that is highly optimized for read operations, up to ten times faster than SQL database systems. One of the best features of LDAP is the ability to store user accounts. A single account entry can be used for logging in to unix workstations, imap servers, access controlled web pages, and email account storage. With the qmailUser schema and user accounts loaded into an LDAP server, Qmail-LDAP can be configured so that all mail servers in an organization can share this same account data. Qmail-LDAP supports message routing to the mailhost specified in each users account entry, even when all internal email accounts use business card style addresses such as [EMAIL PROTECTED] There is no need to use internal addresses like [EMAIL PROTECTED] and convert them to [EMAIL PROTECTED] when mail leaves the intranet. Using LDAP to store Qmail-LDAP email accounts requires either building an LDAP directory, or modifying your existing directory. Since Qmail-LDAP requires the administrator to have a prior understanding of LDAP, this section of the HOWTO does not deal with basic LDAP or unix topics. For those who are completely unfamiliar with LDAP directory construction and administration, there are excellent books available and there are searchable mailing list archives at http://www.openldap.org. 1. The first part of setting up the directory server to work with Qmail-LDAP is to add the schema. This is not required if you have disabled schema checking, however running an LDAP server with schema checking disabled is highly discouraged. How the schema is loaded depends on the server you are using." Regards, bruno
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Hi Itamar, Pra que voce quer fazer isto Bruno ? (he is asking me why would I want to do this) To answer it i'll have to explain a little about my network. Here where i'm working is the central node of a big network. We are the mailserver for some companys that are connected to us through leased lines. Some of these links are slow 64K links. There is a company connected to us using a 64K link that wants the mailserver for their domain installed directly in their LAN, to speed up the mail transition and to avoid the internal mail traffic passing through this link every time a local employee send a message to other local employee. The problem about moving their mailserver from here (the central node) to their local network is that they have a big filial in another state that is also connected to us. When we move their MX box to their LAN, everybody in the filial will have to pass throught their 64KB link to send and receive e-mail, thus, consuming their bandwidth again. So, to avoid this, i want the filial maildirs to stay configured here in the central node of the network. And the maildirs of the biggest office will be configured in their own local mailserver. Could you understand me? Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Yes, I understand. I don´t know how to make it, Try qmail-ldap. - Original Message - From: Bruno Negrão [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:36 PM Subject: Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines? Hi Itamar, Pra que voce quer fazer isto Bruno ? (he is asking me why would I want to do this) To answer it i'll have to explain a little about my network. Here where i'm working is the central node of a big network. We are the mailserver for some companys that are connected to us through leased lines. Some of these links are slow 64K links. There is a company connected to us using a 64K link that wants the mailserver for their domain installed directly in their LAN, to speed up the mail transition and to avoid the internal mail traffic passing through this link every time a local employee send a message to other local employee. The problem about moving their mailserver from here (the central node) to their local network is that they have a big filial in another state that is also connected to us. When we move their MX box to their LAN, everybody in the filial will have to pass throught their 64KB link to send and receive e-mail, thus, consuming their bandwidth again. So, to avoid this, i want the filial maildirs to stay configured here in the central node of the network. And the maildirs of the biggest office will be configured in their own local mailserver. Could you understand me? Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
How about 2 qmail installs? After you install qmail once, change conf-qmail to have a qmail2. make setup check again, and you have a 2nd qmail install. In there, change smtproutes to point your domain to your 2nd server. Then for each user that exists on the 2nd server, make a .qmail-default with: |/var/qmail2/bin/forward [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remember to run your qmail-send process from the 2nd install, or nothing will go out - Yes yes.. It got me :) Rick On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 13:36, Bruno Negrão wrote: Hi Itamar, Pra que voce quer fazer isto Bruno ? (he is asking me why would I want to do this) To answer it i'll have to explain a little about my network. Here where i'm working is the central node of a big network. We are the mailserver for some companys that are connected to us through leased lines. Some of these links are slow 64K links. There is a company connected to us using a 64K link that wants the mailserver for their domain installed directly in their LAN, to speed up the mail transition and to avoid the internal mail traffic passing through this link every time a local employee send a message to other local employee. The problem about moving their mailserver from here (the central node) to their local network is that they have a big filial in another state that is also connected to us. When we move their MX box to their LAN, everybody in the filial will have to pass throught their 64KB link to send and receive e-mail, thus, consuming their bandwidth again. So, to avoid this, i want the filial maildirs to stay configured here in the central node of the network. And the maildirs of the biggest office will be configured in their own local mailserver. Could you understand me? Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
other solution is creating a subdomain in second machine and add an alias on the first machine to forward the message to second machine. - Original Message - From: Rick Romero [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines? How about 2 qmail installs? After you install qmail once, change conf-qmail to have a qmail2. make setup check again, and you have a 2nd qmail install. In there, change smtproutes to point your domain to your 2nd server. Then for each user that exists on the 2nd server, make a .qmail-default with: |/var/qmail2/bin/forward [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remember to run your qmail-send process from the 2nd install, or nothing will go out - Yes yes.. It got me :) Rick On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 13:36, Bruno Negrão wrote: Hi Itamar, Pra que voce quer fazer isto Bruno ? (he is asking me why would I want to do this) To answer it i'll have to explain a little about my network. Here where i'm working is the central node of a big network. We are the mailserver for some companys that are connected to us through leased lines. Some of these links are slow 64K links. There is a company connected to us using a 64K link that wants the mailserver for their domain installed directly in their LAN, to speed up the mail transition and to avoid the internal mail traffic passing through this link every time a local employee send a message to other local employee. The problem about moving their mailserver from here (the central node) to their local network is that they have a big filial in another state that is also connected to us. When we move their MX box to their LAN, everybody in the filial will have to pass throught their 64KB link to send and receive e-mail, thus, consuming their bandwidth again. So, to avoid this, i want the filial maildirs to stay configured here in the central node of the network. And the maildirs of the biggest office will be configured in their own local mailserver. Could you understand me? Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
How about 2 qmail installs? After you install qmail once, change conf-qmail to have a qmail2. make setup check again, and you have a 2nd qmail install. In there, change smtproutes to point your domain to your 2nd server. Then for each user that exists on the 2nd server, make a .qmail-default with: |/var/qmail2/bin/forward [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remember to run your qmail-send process from the 2nd install, or nothing will go out - Yes yes.. It got me :) Rick, are you currently using this? It seems you omitted that I would have to make the same thing in the second server, creating .qmail files forwarding messages to the users configured in the 1st server. I think this configuration isn't scalable. What would happen if I'd like to split the domain through 3 or more machines? Or if I'd like to split other domains through other servers? It would became an administration nightmare... don't you think? The qmail-ldap still appears to be the best solution. The only disadvantage is, besides I'll be obligated to understand all about LDAP concepts, qmail-ldap seems to be difficult to install and configure at a first look. This gonna be a lot of work... Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 14:44, Bruno Negrão wrote: How about 2 qmail installs? After you install qmail once, change conf-qmail to have a qmail2. make setup check again, and you have a 2nd qmail install. In there, change smtproutes to point your domain to your 2nd server. Then for each user that exists on the 2nd server, make a .qmail-default with: |/var/qmail2/bin/forward [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remember to run your qmail-send process from the 2nd install, or nothing will go out - Yes yes.. It got me :) Rick, are you currently using this? For a whole domain. Not per user. It seems you omitted that I would have to make the same thing in the second server, creating .qmail files forwarding messages to the users configured in the 1st server. No, if you create a .qmail-default for each user that needs to be forwarded, you only need to create THOSE users on the 2nd server. I think this configuration isn't scalable. What would happen if I'd like to split the domain through 3 or more machines? Or if I'd like to split other domains through other servers? It would became an administration nightmare... don't you think? Then I'd set a flag, or create a field in MySQL - and look at using maildrop for the redirection, after a perl script checks for the routing information. The qmail-ldap still appears to be the best solution. The only disadvantage is, besides I'll be obligated to understand all about LDAP concepts, qmail-ldap seems to be difficult to install and configure at a first look. That's the main reason I suggested just using a 2nd qmail install. It's easy to create, and there's really nothing special about it. This gonna be a lot of work... No matter how you do it, breaking up a domain based on username is going to take a lot of work. Rick Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 14:57, Rick Romero wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 14:44, Bruno Negrão wrote: How about 2 qmail installs? After you install qmail once, change conf-qmail to have a qmail2. make setup check again, and you have a 2nd qmail install. In there, change smtproutes to point your domain to your 2nd server. Then for each user that exists on the 2nd server, make a .qmail-default with: |/var/qmail2/bin/forward [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remember to run your qmail-send process from the 2nd install, or nothing will go out - Yes yes.. It got me :) Rick, are you currently using this? For a whole domain. Not per user. It seems you omitted that I would have to make the same thing in the second server, creating .qmail files forwarding messages to the users configured in the 1st server. No, if you create a .qmail-default for each user that needs to be forwarded, you only need to create THOSE users on the 2nd server. I think this configuration isn't scalable. What would happen if I'd like to split the domain through 3 or more machines? Or if I'd like to split other domains through other servers? It would became an administration nightmare... don't you think? Then I'd set a flag, or create a field in MySQL - and look at using maildrop for the redirection, after a perl script checks for the routing information. The only way to avoid creating users on each of those multiple servers would be to use MySQL replication. Then you still only have 1 point of administration, and your maildrop/perl/SQL thingy in your .qmail-default would do the forwarding for you (when you create the user, you'd set the 'home server' for your forwarding script). Your script could call a separate qmail install for each remote server, or use subdomains like someone else suggested. The qmail-ldap still appears to be the best solution. The only disadvantage is, besides I'll be obligated to understand all about LDAP concepts, qmail-ldap seems to be difficult to install and configure at a first look. That's the main reason I suggested just using a 2nd qmail install. It's easy to create, and there's really nothing special about it. This gonna be a lot of work... No matter how you do it, breaking up a domain based on username is going to take a lot of work. Rick Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Hi Rick, Rick, are you currently using this? For a whole domain. Not per user. I can't get you, what you mean for a whole domain, not per user? I want to split a whole domain... (??) You told you have to create a .qmail file on the 1st server for every account that is configured on the 2nd server. Isn't it per user configuration too? It seems you omitted that I would have to make the same thing in the second server, creating .qmail files forwarding messages to the users configured in the 1st server. No, if you create a .qmail-default for each user that needs to be forwarded, you only need to create THOSE users on the 2nd server. But what happens when a user of the second server send an email to a user of the first server? the seconds server would bounce an error message this account doesn't exist if it is not configured to forward the e-mails for unexistent accounts for the fisrt server. I think this configuration isn't scalable. What would happen if I'd like to split the domain through 3 or more machines? Or if I'd like to split other domains through other servers? It would became an administration nightmare... don't you think? Then I'd set a flag, or create a field in MySQL - and look at using maildrop for the redirection, after a perl script checks for the routing information. This was too interesting. Can you write this with more detail? I never used vpopmail integrated with MySQL, and I don't master databases or SQL. What program would check the mysql database to discover where the maildir is installed? If qmail-ldap already addresses this problem, do you believe it is worth to reimplement this using an mysql database? Wouldn't it be reinventing the wheel? Regards, bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 15:18, Bruno Negrão wrote:
Hi Rick,
Rick, are you currently using this?
For a whole domain. Not per user.
I can't get you, what you mean for a whole domain, not per user? \
:) I use the 2nd qmail install for forwarding a whole domain, not an
individual user account.
I want
to split a whole domain... (??) You told you have to create a .qmail file
on the 1st server for every account that is configured on the 2nd server.
That's the easiest way to do it. But like you said, that would not be
very scalable.. But it all depends on your needs.
Isn't it per user configuration too?
That would be easiest initially.
It seems you omitted that I would have to make the same thing in the
second
server, creating .qmail files forwarding messages to the users
configured
in the 1st server.
No, if you create a .qmail-default for each user that needs to be
forwarded, you only need to create THOSE users on the 2nd server.
But what happens when a user of the second server send an email to a user
of the first server? The seconds server would bounce an error message this
account doesn't exist if it is not configured to forward the e-mails for
unexistent accounts for the fisrt server.
I was assuming you already have a relay setup, which isn't your POP/IMAP
server. Again though, to keep it 'simple', you could run a 2nd instance
of qmail on that server, listening on it's own IP. It would follow the
MX records for all domains (so yes, sending internally would not be
efficient, because it would goto the 1st server, and back to the 2nd).
There's your outgoing address.
I think this configuration isn't scalable. What would happen if I'd
like to
split the domain through 3 or more machines? Or if I'd like to split
other
domains through other servers? It would became an administration
nightmare... don't you think?
Then I'd set a flag, or create a field in MySQL - and look at using
maildrop for the redirection, after a perl script checks for the routing
information.
This was too interesting. Can you write this with more detail? I never used
vpopmail integrated with MySQL, and I don't master databases or SQL. What
program would check the mysql database to discover where the maildir is
installed?
Well.. most vpopmail 'toasters' I've seen lately use MySQL as the user
store. So (again to make it simple) were you to add an extra field to
the vpopmail table (server_number), and have a perl script check that
field, for the # :
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use DBI;
my ($hash_ref);
my $driver = DBI-install_driver('mysql');
my $dbh = DBI-connect('DBI:mysql:vpopmail','vpopmail','vpoppass');
die Unable to Connect $DBI::errstr\n unless (defined $dbh);
my $table_data = $dbh-prepare(q{SELECT * FROM vpopmail WHERE (pw_domain
= ? AND pw_name=?)});
$table_data-execute($ARGV[1],$ARGV[0]);
if ($hash_ref = $table_data-fetchrow_hashref){
echo Server Number: $hash_ref-{server_number} .\n;
exit $hash_ref-{pw_svclvl};
}
#print Not Found!!\n;
else { exit (1); }
Then in your .qmail-default (for the domain):
| maildrop mailfilter
In your mailfilter file:
SHELL=/bin/sh
VPOP=| /home/vpopmail/bin/vdelivermail '' bounce-no-mailbox
VFWD2=| /var/qmail2/bin/forward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
VHOME=`/home/vpopmail/bin/vuserinfo -d [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MAILDIR=$VHOME/Maildir
#Run your Perl script from here
`/home/vpopmail/domains/host.com/getserver_number.pl $EXT $HOST`
if ( $RETURNCODE == 0 )
{
#deliver locally
to $VHOME
}
if ( $RETURNCODE == 1 )
{
# Send to Server2
to $VFWD2
}
Ok, I just did that off the top of my head, so I can't guarantee it will
work, or is efficient :P
If qmail-ldap already addresses this problem, do you believe it is worth to
reimplement this using an mysql database? Wouldn't it be reinventing the
wheel?
If you don't know SQL or ldap, I suppose it wouldn't matter either way.
But it seems to me you're going to have better luck finding help if you
don't got the ldap way - just because fewer people are using qmail-ldap.
Anyways, Above I combined two things that I do in production. The first
is check the user's Service Level field in MySQL, then filter Spam
based on that. The other is the second qmail install for forwarding all
users to another server.. Yes, It would be easier to do SMTP routes, but
that customer wanted their own specific SpamAssassin config, so I have
to run it through their own SpamAssain config before I can reforward it.
Rick
Regards,
bruno.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
Just out of curiosity, Rick.. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:41:09 -0500 Rick Romero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 15:18, Bruno Negrão wrote: Hi Rick, Rick, are you currently using this? For a whole domain. Not per user. I can't get you, what you mean for a whole domain, not per user? \ :) I use the 2nd qmail install for forwarding a whole domain, not an individual user account. Why not just using smtproutes? --Jw.
Re: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 12:53, Jean Wainer wrote: Just out of curiosity, Rick.. On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:41:09 -0500 Rick Romero [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 2004-08-23 at 15:18, Bruno Negrão wrote: Hi Rick, Rick, are you currently using this? For a whole domain. Not per user. I can't get you, what you mean for a whole domain, not per user? \ :) I use the 2nd qmail install for forwarding a whole domain, not an individual user account. Why not just using smtproutes? You missed the bottom of the last email :P That specific customer wanted specific SpamAssassin settings, and running received email through spam assassin, then forwarding it via a 2nd qmail install seemed the easiest way to do it. I run SpamAssassin from Qmail-Scanner via tcpserver and the qmailqueue patch.. So theirs gets scanned twice, but that's not a problem. Rick --Jw.
RE: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines?
-Original Message- From: Bruno Negrão [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 2:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [vchkpw] How to Split a domain into 2 machines? Hi all, I have to solve the famous problem of splitting a unique domain into 2 remote machines. One machine gonna be the MX for the domain but will contain only part of the e-mail accounts. The other half of the e-mail accounts will be configured in the other server. Creating two subdomains *is not a valid alternative* for me. Is it possible to do this elegantly with vpopmail? Until now, the most elegant solution i have seen is using Qmail + qmail-ldap patch + Open LDAP. In this scenario, vpopmail wouldn't be used. I know there is also a vpopmail-ldap patch, but i understood that it doesn't foresee the case of splitting a domain into two different servers. Thanks in advance, bnegrao I wrote a patch (or quick hack) to do this and have been running this setup in production for more than months without any problem. The patch for 5.4.3 is located at http://www.sigrity.com/oss/vdelivermail.c.patch-5.4.3 and patches can be generated if requested. If more people are interested in this, we could propose a mailhost field just like in qmail-ldap to make it cleaner. Here is the brief setup instruction: For two mail servers (can be more) mail1.x.com and mail2.y.com. Any of mail servers can be MX hosts. 1] Setup vpopmail on both mail servers to host x.com as usual. 2] Add mail1.x.com as an alias to x.com domain on mail1.x.com and add mail1.x.com to VPOPMAILHOME/etc/locals 3] Add mail2.x.com as an alias to x.com domain on mail2.x.com and add mail2.x.com to VPOPMAILHOME/etc/locals 4] Set user fullname to Full [EMAIL PROTECTED] for email accounts on mail1.x.com 5] Set user fullname to Full [EMAIL PROTECTED] for email accounts on mail2.x.com All emails are routed according the setting in the fullname field and using SMTP (not like qmail-ldap). The vpopmail db needs to be synchronized between sites so mysql backend is preferred but cdb should work too. Any comment are welcomed. Hope it will solve your problem. Shouguan Lin
