Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Steve Ames
- Original Message - 
From: Michael Bowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with
 postfix MTA  :-)

Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create
an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do
X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list
but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes
happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else
can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or
contributing work with your fingers crossed.

The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some
reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA.

-Steve




Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Paul Theodoropoulos
What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point.
At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Michael Bowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with
 postfix MTA  :-)
Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create
an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do
X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list
but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes
happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else
can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or
contributing work with your fingers crossed.
The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some
reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA.
-Steve
Paul Theodoropoulos
http://www.anastrophe.com
http://www.smileglobal.com



Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Jesse Guardiani
On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:20 am, Paul Theodoropoulos wrote:
 What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point.

Postfix is a MODERN sendmail replacement. Qmail is not. You don't need
to patch Postfix. Patches suck. :)


 At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote:
 - Original Message -
 From: Michael Bowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with
   postfix MTA  :-)
 
 Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to create
 an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions do
 X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list
 but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of changes
 happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else
 can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves or
 contributing work with your fingers crossed.
 
 The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for some
 reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA.
 
 -Steve
 
 Paul Theodoropoulos
 http://www.anastrophe.com
 http://www.smileglobal.com
 
 
 
 

-- 
Jesse Guardiani, Systems Administrator
WingNET Internet Services,
P.O. Box 2605 // Cleveland, TN 37320-2605
423-559-LINK (v)  423-559-5145 (f)
http://www.wingnet.net



Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Steve Ames
- Original Message - 
From: Paul Theodoropoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point.

Are you being sarcastic?

-Steve

 At 02:45 PM 9/8/2004, you wrote:
 - Original Message -
 From: Michael Bowe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
   The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with
   postfix MTA  :-)
 
 Yes! I keep saying that. I had heard that there is work going on to
create
 an abstraction layer between vpopmail and qmail (i.e. vpopmail functions
do
 X rather than doing X with qmail). I promptly joined the development list
 but its low traffic and I don't really see a lot of those types of
changes
 happening... nor do I see a well defined path layed out where anyone else
 can help to make this happen without either just doing it all themselves
or
 contributing work with your fingers crossed.
 
 The main/only developers on vpopmail seem VERY fixated on qmail and for
some
 reason are unwilling to work towards supporting other MTA.
 
 -Steve

 Paul Theodoropoulos
 http://www.anastrophe.com
 http://www.smileglobal.com







Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Chris Ess
On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Jesse Guardiani wrote:

 On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:20 am, Paul Theodoropoulos wrote:
  What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point.

 Postfix is a MODERN sendmail replacement. Qmail is not. You don't need
 to patch Postfix. Patches suck. :)

(in re 'MODERN')
I disagree.  Despite the age of the original code base, qmail is still a
modern and viable replacement for sendmail.  However, it's not very
featureful -- which is fine for replacing most versions of sendmail
anyway.  I believe that the majority of sendmail installations do not use
STARTTLS or SMTP AUTH.

(in re patches)
Funny.  I've never thought so.

One thing I like about having to patch qmail is the ability to decide at
compile-time what extensions I want to use.  This allows me to limit the
amount of unused code compiled into my MTA.  (In the era of modern
computing and the prevalence of CPU's well over 2GHz, this may not mean a
lot.  However, I run qmail on a 50MHz SparcStation LX and I'm a bit picky
about what goes into it.)  Having only ever compiled Postfix once (and
many moons ago at that), I do not know if the same option is present
there.


But I'm wandering off topic for the vpopmail list.

Ooh...  While we're at it, we could add vpopmail support for sendmail...
^_~

Sincerely,


Chris Ess
System Administrator / CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician)


Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Paul Theodoropoulos
At 08:39 AM 9/9/2004, you wrote:
On Thursday 09 September 2004 11:20 am, Paul Theodoropoulos wrote:
 What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point.
Postfix is a MODERN sendmail replacement. Qmail is not. You don't need
to patch Postfix. Patches suck. :)
well, qmail isn't a ronco pocket fisherman either. that doesn't make it 
less than an excellent MTA.

patching? okay, you've got me there. doesn't bother me however. i've run 
qmail since 1997. works great. no security issues. why muck with what 
works. i despise sendmail and will do anything in my power not to deal with 
sendmail. so a 'modern sendmail replacement' doesn't exactly make me do 
cartwheels.

but i digress.
Paul Theodoropoulos
http://www.anastrophe.com
http://www.smileglobal.com



Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Paul Theodoropoulos
At 08:41 AM 9/9/2004, you wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Paul Theodoropoulos [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 What, precisely, is gained by supporting postfix? i don't see the point.
Are you being sarcastic?
no.
Paul Theodoropoulos
http://www.anastrophe.com
http://www.smileglobal.com



Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Steve Ames
- Original Message - 
From: Chris Ess [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Ooh...  While we're at it, we could add vpopmail support for sendmail...

Once vpopmail is abstracted from qmail that would be easy. :)

I fully realize that everyone who uses vpopmail also uses qmail. Me too. A
lot of people like qmail. Others would like to be able to use vpopmail
(which is great) with other MTA that they are more familiar with or just
prefer. This isn't anti-qmail its pro-vpopmail.

-Steve




RE: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-09 Thread Joseph Schmitt II
 -Original Message-
 From: Rainer Duffner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 4:52 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP
 
 
 Am Mi, den 08.09.2004 schrieb Michael Bowe um 23:20:
 
  But! whenever I demonstrate the vpopmail software to any of the guys
  at my new place of employment, they are the ones who are marvelling at 
  the ease of use and features of vpopmail.
 
 Indeed.
 Postfix _is_ nice (cyrus is debatable, IMO), but what use is a mailserver
without any webinterface for customers to add/modify/delete their users?
 
 There are lots of bits and pieces around, but no complete package. Just
compare what is available to postfix with
 qmail+patches^3+vpopmail+qmailadmin and see which one you want to start
 with.
 
 
 
 cheers,
 Rainer
 -- 
 ===
 ~ Rainer Duffner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
 ~   Freising - Munich - Germany   ~
 ~Unix - Linux - BSD - OpenSource - Security   ~
 ~  http://www.ultra-secure.de/~rainer/pubkey.pgp  ~
===
 

Somehow I worry the discussion of MTA+MDA will venture to an evangelistic
argument/discussion (much like that between linux/windows/mac etc).

When we first came to the need for a more powerful MTA back in 1999,
qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin seemed to be the best features wise, and
administration wise.  In dealing with the ever growing spam, a re-evaluation
in 2003 lead us to believe that qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin still had a slight
edge over the others, including postfix.

As Rainer said, it seems that postfix has more upfront, but it still seems
that qmail can be patched very well.  Currently, I'm running
qmail+vpopmail+qmailadmin, qmail-scanner w/ClamAV, mailfilter invoking
SpamAssassin for userbased SA.

Qmails only holdback is the lack of development (but does a stable secure
MTA need development?), patches add features as needed. But, its not like
MTA requirements has changed over the years, it's the MDA, and that's easy
to plug something else in its place.

--joey




Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-08 Thread Davide Giunchi
Il mer, 2004-09-08 alle 19:55, Jesse Guardiani ha scritto:
 Howdy folks,
 
 Sorry for the flame bait, but I'm just curious what all you
 seasoned vpopmail veterans have to say about Postfix + Cyrus.
 
 Back in 2002 when my company chose to go with QMail + Vpopmail
 I thought it was the Right Choice, but these days I'm hearing a lot
 about Postfix + Cyrus. For a while there, it seemed like vpopmail
 development was grinding to a halt, but these days it seems to

No, i don't think that the vpopmail development is on a halt, i think
that it's the opposite: vpopmail dev was stopped on v5.2.x version when
was developed only by inter7, since Tom Collins has joined (or better:
maintaned) the development vpopmail has get a big sprint.

I don't think that the problem is vpopmail, the problem is qmail:
after 6 years since 1.03 version there's no modific to the original
version, now you always need addictional feature like antivirus
integration, more spam filters, a lot of other things... this lead to a
patch-over-patch phenomenon that is an headace for the qmail
administrator.
So you need a toaster like netqmail-1.05 + bill shupp patches, but
sometimes this is not enoght. On the other hand postfix is active
developed even on the core.
So i think that the problem of qmail is its license and it's author's
ego.

 be picking back up again. Even QMail seems to be at least partially
 back under development with the Netqmail package. It's giving me
 hope for the platform that I've invested so much of my personal time
 into.
 
 For those of you who have had the opportunity to work with BOTH
 systems, which do you prefer and why?
 
 BTW, I currently run QMail + vpopmail  friends + courier-imap + sqwebmail.
 

Don't use sqwebmail, use squirrel.

Regards.

-- 
Davide Giunchi



Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-08 Thread Michael Bowe
- Original Message - 
From: Davide Giunchi [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Il mer, 2004-09-08 alle 19:55, Jesse Guardiani ha scritto:
  Howdy folks,
 
  Sorry for the flame bait, but I'm just curious what all you
  seasoned vpopmail veterans have to say about Postfix + Cyrus.
 
  Back in 2002 when my company chose to go with QMail + Vpopmail
  I thought it was the Right Choice, but these days I'm hearing a lot
  about Postfix + Cyrus. For a while there, it seemed like vpopmail
  development was grinding to a halt, but these days it seems to

 I don't think that the problem is vpopmail, the problem is qmail:
 after 6 years since 1.03 version there's no modific to the original
 version, now you always need addictional feature like antivirus
 integration, more spam filters, a lot of other things... this lead to a
 patch-over-patch phenomenon that is an headace for the qmail
 administrator.

Yes I agree

I extensively used qmail/vpopmail at the ISP I used to own.

However, I sold the business to a larger ISP last year, and now I work for
them. They use postfix as their standard mail server. Since being exposed
to this software I marvel at all the fabulous features compared with qmail.
In particular the ease that you can perform a vast array of checks /
filtering on incoming mail. The more I see of postfix, the more I understand
just how out-of-date that qmail really is.

But! whenever I demonstrate the vpopmail software to any of the guys at my
new place of employment, they are the ones who are marvelling at the ease of
use and features of vpopmail.

The perfect world would be a vpopmail mailbox management combined with
postfix MTA  :-)

Michael.




Re: [vchkpw] QMail + Vpopmail vs. Postfix + Cyrus IMAP

2004-09-08 Thread Rainer Duffner
Am Mi, den 08.09.2004 schrieb Michael Bowe um 23:20:

 But! whenever I demonstrate the vpopmail software to any of the guys at my
 new place of employment, they are the ones who are marvelling at the ease of
 use and features of vpopmail.

Indeed.
Postfix _is_ nice (cyrus is debatable, IMO), but what use is a
mailserver without any webinterface for customers to add/modify/delete
their users?

There are lots of bits and pieces around, but no complete package.
Just compare what is available to postfix with
qmail+patches^3+vpopmail+qmailadmin and see which one you want to start
with.



cheers,
Rainer
-- 
===
~ Rainer Duffner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~
~   Freising - Munich - Germany   ~
~Unix - Linux - BSD - OpenSource - Security   ~
~  http://www.ultra-secure.de/~rainer/pubkey.pgp  ~
===