Re: [vdr] nvidia-vdr closed driver or open source?
to, 2010-08-19 kello 08:57 -0700, VDR User kirjoitti: Nouveau is that there are no plans to support VDPAU. That drivers seems like a case of too little too late. I've just tried to use a tnt2 card with the nvidia legacy drivers because a couple of capacitors blew up on my newer card. It didn't work, undefined symbol. Same thing with ati cards. For example my work computer had an ati card and fglrx support for it went away before warranty of the computer expired. Open source drivers are needed so that old cards can be put to use even after the manufacturer doesn't care to support them anymore. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] nvidia-vdr closed driver or open source?
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Mikko Tuumanen mikko.tuuma...@utu.fi wrote: to, 2010-08-19 kello 08:57 -0700, VDR User kirjoitti: Nouveau is that there are no plans to support VDPAU. That drivers seems like a case of too little too late. I've just tried to use a tnt2 card with the nvidia legacy drivers because a couple of capacitors blew up on my newer card. It didn't work, undefined symbol. Same thing with ati cards. For example my work computer had an ati card and fglrx support for it went away before warranty of the computer expired. Open source drivers are needed so that old cards can be put to use even after the manufacturer doesn't care to support them anymore. There's nothing wrong with what Nouveau is attempting to do. It's a good thing for people who still care enough to use old EOL cards. You can always argue why throwing some old outdated hardware out if it still suits your needs vs. replacing with something newer and _cheap_ while easing the pain of fighting to keep relic hardware working. In the end it's 100% user-choice and what they're willing to tolerate. In my case an unstable driver with no VDPAU is a definite no. I have no interest in dragging around dead weight. However, that tnt2 card may work great for you and keeping it might sound better then spending $15-$30 or more if you don't absolutely have to. Either way having a choice is better then no choice. :) ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. If you can find a modeline what your output is currently using you can use online services to check framerates it provides. You can use this link Or give Xfree86 modeline to import-option http://www.epanorama.net/faq/vga2rgb/calc.html For example Xorg server with log verbosity 6 will print modes the X-server is validating. But I am not sure (too busy to check and remove from my VDR) if it writes actual modelines out. ** These framerate/synch issues are so complicated (and uninteresting to most) that we can just made a conclusion that video/audio should be properly synched, otherwise a quality declarating will occour. With VDR's FF card I have never seen such problems. But with softdevice based outputs I can see a lot of them. The video does not seem to be as smooth as on dedicated players (BD, popcorn hour etc). It does not help using direct Toslink-output from VDR which mostly prohibits resampling of audio. And why would you like to have audio decompressed, speeded up 1% and then recompressed. Just to avoid your output software to duplicate or drop frames. Synch perfectly.. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
On 20 August 2010 00:37, Niko Mikkilä n...@phnet.fi wrote: Thu, 2010-08-19 at 20:54 +0400, Goga777 wrote: Computer hardware usually cannot provide 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz outputs to your TV/Monitor. This will cause some judder on display output as MPEG/AVC input-stream is not synchronized to output framerate. do you mean that all nvidia vdpau cards with existing drivers from Nvidia can't provide exact 50.000Hz, 59.940Hz or 23.976Hz ?? There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. However, the rate doesn't need to match exactly because the display device is synchronized to the video signal. The rate could be 50.1 Hz or maybe even 51 Hz and the display wouldn't mind. 50 fps video files would play slightly faster, but there would be no need to drop video frames because of that. Things are more problematic when receiving live broadcast. Then the display and the video source (graphics card and software) needs to be synchronized to the broadcast to avoid dropping or duplicating frames. Set-top digital television boxes and FF DVB cards do that, but most graphics cards/drivers can't because they aren't designed to follow an external time source. Audio playback synchronation is another issue, and somewhat difficult to handle properly on a PC where the audio chip's clock is almost always separate from the graphics card's clock. By default, many media players time everything according to the audio clock, and therefore they need to drop/duplicate video frames every now and then. The other alternative is to drop/duplicate audio frames or resample the audio completely. -- Niko The hardware is also running some kind of software/firmware (binary blob). I would think that the Larabee would have been the perfect choice, easier to create newer/maintaining firmware, since it is x86 based. If they made the Larabee propriety for the parts that we are interested in. Then it would also defeat the purpose of having a dynamic decoding environment. Which current hardware devices fail to do. There for the argument to have a software based solution that can do more than just one thing, not just live tv but also alternative media sources/codecs. Current hardware is good for Live TV and Recordings, software based solutions are good for dynamic media/source input, newer codecs etc, not so good at displaying it properly 100% all the time. my 2c. ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] nvidia-vdr closed driver or open source?
Fri, 2010-08-20 at 10:30 +0300, Mikko Tuumanen wrote: I've just tried to use a tnt2 card with the nvidia legacy drivers because a couple of capacitors blew up on my newer card. It didn't work, undefined symbol. Same thing with ati cards. The Nvidia legacy drivers are kept up to date with kernel and X.org changes. Plus the interface between the binary blob and the rest of the system is open source, so in most cases anyone could patch it. 71.86.14 was released just a while ago with Improved compatibility with recent Linux kernels: http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-amd64-71.86.14-driver.html For example my work computer had an ati card and fglrx support for it went away before warranty of the computer expired. ATI has chosen a strategy of supporting open-source driver development so that they don't need to sacrifice as much resources on supporting legacy hardware. Open source drivers are needed so that old cards can be put to use even after the manufacturer doesn't care to support them anymore. I totally agree. It's good to have alternative projects such as Nouveau when the manufacturer doesn't want to release proper open source drivers. -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
Fri, 2010-08-20 at 10:08 +0200, jori.hamalai...@teliasonera.com wrote: There is no graphics card, BD/DVD player or other standalone device that outputs those rates exactly. I don't know how much they deviate, but I'd guess it's usually something like 0.01 % (50.005 Hz instead of 50 Hz), as Jori said. If you can find a modeline what your output is currently using you can use online services to check framerates it provides. xvidtune -show prints the current modeline, but the refresh rate calculated from it will not be the same as the actual rate. The clock chrystals have deviations in order of 0.01 % and the only way to fix that is by adjusting the timing slightly at frequent intervals as vga-sync-fields does. Having a more accurate time source might not help either because the broadcast may not be accurately timed. It does not help using direct Toslink-output from VDR which mostly prohibits resampling of audio. Audio can be resampled with any PCM output. The idea is to adjust the playback speed slightly by resampling for example 48 kHz audio to 48.01 kHz and then playing the result back at 48 kHz. This is more difficult if you'd like to play multi-channel AC-3 with S/PDIF passthrough; then the audio would need to be decoded, resampled and re-encoded. An easier alternative is to drop/duplicate AC-3 packets, but that may be more noticeable on playback. Both Xine and XBMC support resampling audio. XBMC also supports dropping/duplicating audio packets. And why would you like to have audio decompressed, speeded up 1% and then recompressed. Just to avoid your output software to duplicate or drop frames. Synch perfectly.. Yep, that's the best way to get fluid video playback with synchronized audio on current PC hardware. Re-encoding is unnecessary with stereo streams or HDMI1.3 and analog multichannel outputs. High-quality resampling is totally unnoticeable. -- Niko ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
Re: [vdr] Advice on new motherboard, xineliboutput, vdpau, hdmi video audio, etc.
btw, have a look on new ASRock Core 100HT NetTop http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=articleitem=asrock_core100htnum=1 ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
[vdr] projects.vdr-developer.org update to Redmine 1.0.0
Hi! On August 21 / 22 I will update projects.vdr-developer.org to a new Redmine version, so please be prepared for some service downtime. With the update Redmine will show Git-branches and tags in its built-in repository browser plus some other nice features. I try to make this transition as smooth as possible, but I might need to take down the whole service for some hours. Only the Redmine webinterface will be affected and you can still use the Git repositories! bye, Tobias ___ vdr mailing list vdr@linuxtv.org http://www.linuxtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vdr
