Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
On Dec 12, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Enric wrote: video podcasting allows programs like iTunes http://apple.com/itunes and FireAnthttp://getfireant.comto automatically download video content. Video podcasting does not apply to products like fireAnt that allow the blog and feedback that makes a videoblog. Video podcasting does apply to FireAnt. It automatically downloads content and MORE. ;-) --Steve -- Home Page - http://stevegarfield.com Video Blog - http://stevegarfield.blogs.com Text Blog - http://offonatangent.blogspot.com Like Paul Revere, leading the citizen's media revolution. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/KIlPFB/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
Who is doing what I described? Producing 100 minutes of show for $150k? I'd love to talk to them! The great thing about video podcasting is that it can scale to every level. From tiny video diaries to heavily produced shows. You decide which level you're going to play at. You rebuke Indie film -- and sure a lot of it is self-absorbed claptrap, but does that mean you only accept summer blockbusters as truly great cinema? Or do you reject all films? What I'm describing is way for people like me who want to be in show business. This is how to get to the business part using these tools. To recoup $150,000 you need to sell less than 10,000 DVDs. And with the other revenue models you should be able to break even even if it's not a hit, and be comfortable if it does strike a chord. -K --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 12, 2005, at 5:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All it takes now is someone with a little money and vision to really start doing it. Some people have been doing this for quite a goddamn while. Not that anyone scribbling these inane articles cares unless it's McDonald's TV. Good god, Indie TV? Just as awful as Indie Film? PUKE. Chris Weagel www.human-dog.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Media RSS has not been widely adopted outside of Yahoo. Look at some of the prior posts on here about multiple enclosures. That's like saying Microsoft Word has not been widely adopted outside of Microsoft. Are there competitors? Sure. Can it be easier for people to find and subscribe to feeds, absolutely, but right now FireAnt and iTunes use mRSS. Done and done. Video podcasting does not apply to products like fireAnt that allow the blog and feedback that makes a videoblog. You're right I did not address the interactive potential of video blogging. But Video Blogging is still a push media much like television. Part of the attraction to video blogs is the responsiveness from the creators of the shows to the audience. Emails and comments can be incorporated into the next show. Try emailing your favorite show now and see what happens. Once you find a podcast you like, you can tell these programs to always download the newest content when it appears on the net. Again, this is only the distribution aspect, not the interaction and response capabilities in blogs. Here and following is shown how to fit into the current model of one way television communication, rather than the disruptive change of incorporating the ability of linking and comment response in blogging. The one-way non-interactive large audience broadcast model hasn't evolved, just opened up to more people with less resources. Yes, exactly. This opens up creation to practically everyone. I still think we're in the middle of evolving the model of how interactive the media can be, but I've seen studies and heard anecdotes that people want to be engaged and told a story -- the dislike too many options or adventures to choose from during an actual story. But the interaction after the fact -- emails, comments, etc. -- that is where the video podcasts are alive. -Kent Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/2jUsvC/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Media RSS has not been widely adopted outside of Yahoo. Look at some of the prior posts on here about multiple enclosures. That's like saying Microsoft Word has not been widely adopted outside of Microsoft. Are there competitors? Sure. Can it be easier for people to find and subscribe to feeds, absolutely, but right now FireAnt and iTunes use mRSS. Done and done. Joshua Kinberg could probably address the usage of media RSS bettter. My impression is that most people don't post in multiple enclosures. Video podcasting does not apply to products like fireAnt that allow the blog and feedback that makes a videoblog. You're right I did not address the interactive potential of video blogging. But Video Blogging is still a push media much like television. Actualy RSS and therefore videoblogs are in a pull mechanism. The aggregators have to poll the sites for pulling updates, they're not notified and pushed content. Part of the attraction to video blogs is the responsiveness from the creators of the shows to the audience. Emails and comments can be incorporated into the next show. Try emailing your favorite show now and see what happens. Once you find a podcast you like, you can tell these programs to always download the newest content when it appears on the net. Again, this is only the distribution aspect, not the interaction and response capabilities in blogs. Here and following is shown how to fit into the current model of one way television communication, rather than the disruptive change of incorporating the ability of linking and comment response in blogging. The one-way non-interactive large audience broadcast model hasn't evolved, just opened up to more people with less resources. Yes, exactly. This opens up creation to practically everyone. I still think we're in the middle of evolving the model of how interactive the media can be, but I've seen studies and heard anecdotes that people want to be engaged and told a story -- the dislike too many options or adventures to choose from during an actual story. I think that's absolutely correct. And after they've finished seeing the show they're very motivated to respond: That's great, I really love the..., That sucks the way you showed that guy..., etc. But the interaction after the fact -- emails, comments, etc. -- that is where the video podcasts are alive. Yup! The more immediately after, the better. Sometimes people are into it during. Like, Hey, why did you bring that character into the story? (which they may forget by the time it's over.) -Kent -- Enric Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 22:10:52 +0100, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Enric [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Media RSS has not been widely adopted outside of Yahoo. Look at some of the prior posts on here about multiple enclosures. That's like saying Microsoft Word has not been widely adopted outside of Microsoft. Are there competitors? Sure. Can it be easier for people to find and subscribe to feeds, absolutely, but right now FireAnt and iTunes use mRSS. Done and done. To the best of my knowledge iTunes only supports their own RSS extension, not Media RSS. Don't get me wrong, I like Media RSS and was pretty active when the original spec was being formulated, but it hasn't gotten wide adoption (yet). Video podcasting does not apply to products like fireAnt that allow the blog and feedback that makes a videoblog. You're right I did not address the interactive potential of video blogging. But Video Blogging is still a push media much like television. Part of the attraction to video blogs is the responsiveness from the creators of the shows to the audience. Emails and comments can be incorporated into the next show. Try emailing your favorite show now and see what happens. E-mail is the two-dollar whore of interactivity. Videoblogging is not a push medium (if it was it would not be blogging), and you have to stop thinking of interactivity as 'flying pigs' and Other Stuff You Can Click On. There are other types of interactivity. In the most basic form video is placed on blogs. Viewers click from blog to blog and connects the pieces into wholes. Doesn't work on tv. Here and following is shown how to fit into the current model of one way television communication, rather than the disruptive change of incorporating the ability of linking and comment response in blogging. The one-way non-interactive large audience broadcast model hasn't evolved, just opened up to more people with less resources. Yes, exactly. This opens up creation to practically everyone. I still think we're in the middle of evolving the model of how interactive the media can be, but I've seen studies and heard anecdotes that people want to be engaged and told a story -- the dislike too many options or adventures to choose from during an actual story. 30 minute videos don't work well on the web for a reason. The computer is an interactive experience - if you force tv on it it gets really boring really fast. Videoblogging isn't about copying the tv concept to the web. There are over 22 million blogs tracked by Technorati. People do want to create content that fits into an interactive enviroment and they do want to consume it because it is valuable. It's not tv, and if you try to force a tv concept on it you will fail. Adapt video to the blog concept and you will succeed. - Andreas -- URL:http://www.solitude.dk/ Commentary on media, communication, culture and technology. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/.QUssC/izNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
Me. I hate shitty blockbuster films just as much as I hate shitty indie films just as much as I hate bullshit dichotomies. You want to be in show business? Well god bless you. You tell me what level I should be playing at. Chris Weagel www.human-dog.com On Dec 12, 2005, at 4:00 PM, Kent Nichols wrote: Who is doing what I described? Producing 100 minutes of show for $150k? I'd love to talk to them! The great thing about video podcasting is that it can scale to every level. From tiny video diaries to heavily produced shows. You decide which level you're going to play at. You rebuke Indie film -- and sure a lot of it is self-absorbed claptrap, but does that mean you only accept summer blockbusters as truly great cinema? Or do you reject all films? What I'm describing is way for people like me who want to be in show business. This is how to get to the business part using these tools. To recoup $150,000 you need to sell less than 10,000 DVDs. And with the other revenue models you should be able to break even even if it's not a hit, and be comfortable if it does strike a chord. -K --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Weagel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 12, 2005, at 5:54 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All it takes now is someone with a little money and vision to really start doing it. Some people have been doing this for quite a goddamn while. Not that anyone scribbling these inane articles cares unless it's McDonald's TV. Good god, Indie TV? Just as awful as Indie Film? PUKE. Chris Weagel www.human-dog.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/KIlPFB/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
Someone with a geeky predisposition might write a skype plugin so that one could assigns a skype-in number to their (wordpress) vlog and with a wordpress plugin the audio comments could go directly into the post. I guess you would need to indicate a suffix (i.e., and extension) that would associate the vlog post with the audio message. BTW on a different matter, anyone else finding YAHOO mail posts to this board slower/worse than ever then past few days, it's completely dropped one I sent earlier this afternoon. cheers r -- URL: http://r.24x7.com Deconstructing the status quo, collaboratively On Dec 12, 2005, at 6:15 PM, Pete Prodoehl wrote: Enric wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Kent Nichols [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think that's absolutely correct. And after they've finished seeing the show they're very motivated to respond: That's great, I really love the..., That sucks the way you showed that guy..., etc. But the interaction after the fact -- emails, comments, etc. -- that is where the video podcasts are alive. Yup! The more immediately after, the better. Sometimes people are into it during. Like, Hey, why did you bring that character into the story? (which they may forget by the time it's over.) Maybe the videobloggers should follow what many of the podcasters do, at the end of the video supply a phone number: Comments on this video? Call 206-555- Of course it's not exactly as bloggy as text, but you could use the calls in a video, or as audio on the site, or in it's own feed, or... there are some interesting possibilities I'd imagine... Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
I have always said that Rocketboom is too good for vlogging. Good luck to all at rocketboom, I just wish you well.On 12 Dec 2005, at 16:34, Enric wrote: --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have crossed a milestone with this weekend's announcementhttp://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/11/arts/television/11mack.html?ex=1291957200en=902af87c8ba6ddf4ei=5090partner=rssuserlandemc=rssthat TiVo has entered into an agreement with the popular web show Rocketboom http://rocketboom.com. Finally a model for independent television is upon us.Right now the television shows are developed by a handful of trusted writer/producers in Hollywood who have become trusted enough to pitch there show ideas to the Networks. They've gained this trust by working on other television shows or by being incredibly success in another medium such as film, or books, or porn. If you're not one of these trusted people, the networks will not talk to you about your ideas.These pitches are then considered by the network suits and a few are chosen to be turned into full fledged pilot scripts. These scripts are then read and fewer still are made into actual pilots and then the best pilots make it to air where most of them fail to generate the 8-15 million viewers required to stay on the air.In the last year with maturity of mRSS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRSS Media RSS has not been widely adopted outside of Yahoo. Look at some of the prior posts on here about multiple enclosures. and the wide dispersal of high-quality digital video production tools, video podcasting has exploded. For the new kids on the block, video podcasting allows programs like iTunes http://apple.com/itunes and FireAnthttp://getfireant.comto automatically download video content. "Video podcasting" does not apply to products like fireAnt that allow the blog and feedback that makes a videoblog. It's like signing up for a season pass on TiVo. fireAnt, mefeedia, etc. allow linking and response, unlike TiVo. Once you find a podcast you like, you can tell these programs to always download the newest content when it appears on the net.Again, this is only the distribution aspect, not the interaction and response capabilities in blogs. That's the groundwork, and now with this TiVo deal you can add that same sort of functionality to your television set through TiVo.Great. But how does that change anything? Well, it changes things because it gives TiVo an incentive to make other deals with indie producers so that they can distinguish themselves from the generic PVR boxes more and more cable and satellite providers are giving to their customers. Here and following is shown how to fit into the current model of one way television communication, rather than the disruptive change of incorporating the ability of linking and comment response in blogging. The one-way non-interactive large audience broadcast model hasn't evolved, just opened up to more people with less resources. -- Enric http://www.cirne.com Determine the Media It also will allow for a model where indie producers will have incentive to create longer DVD-length pilots for their shows on the cheap. Why go to a big network that's just going to shit all over your idea when you can produce your own content the way you want it and then take it to the network when you have built a following through TiVo and iTunes. If you can prove your show is being watched by a million people, you're getting close to what the average viewership is on basic cable.How will the producers make money? Subscribers, DVD sales, and small interactive ads for the people who don't subscribe. The subscribers is a simple extension of how people pay for cable today. ESPN gets around $2.50 out of your monthly cable bill to support it's programming. That works out to $30 a year and about eight cents for each day's Sports Center.If you charge people $5 or $10 a year to subscribe to your entire archive and get extra content and early access to your new shows you should see a fairly sizable subscriber base (10%-ish). It's important to not that you still give away your content freely on the net and TiVo, but you just charge a reasonable fee for subscription and you treat your free customers with respect.The market for DVDs is impressive. Sales of TV show DVD is very strong, and it costs under $2 to physically produce a DVD. Add the usual bevvy of special features and DVD only content and you should be able to sell enough discs to recoup your costs with a healthy profit.Advertising. Again this should not be intrusive. But a simple ad at the end of your content will bring in enough money to fund the project and not be annoying to the viewers. And this ad would not appear on the subscriber's content, this would only be for your free viewers.So that's where the money comes from, but where does the content
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
Joshua Kinberg could probably address the usage of media RSS bettter. I have a feeling that the person misused the term Media RSS. I don't think they were referring to the Media RSS specification developed collaboratively by Yahoo! and others. I think they were simply referring to the process of syndicating media via RSS. Unfortunately, MRSS as a spec is not flourishing and I haven't seen all that much commitment to it even from Yahoo! It really shows the power of developing supporting software when it comes to propagating adoption. The iTunes spec is a lump of steaming turd. But because it is supported by iTunes creators bend over backwards despite the annoyance (there is very little in the iTunes spec that isn't already in RSS to begin with, or had started to gain traction because of the groundwork done by Yahoo with MRSS... reinvent the wheel much, Apple?). If Yahoo! had developed, or helped develop technology to publish MRSS and made that easier, then we probably would have seen more adoption... maybe we still will see this, but it seems to have been stunted a bit. -Josh Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get Bzzzy! (real tools to help you find a job). Welcome to the Sweet Life. http://us.click.yahoo.com/KIlPFB/vlQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: Fwd: The Indie TV Movement is Here
However Media RSS wasn't designed to replace or embellish what we the public know and love as syndication and distribution (at least from what I read at the time, and from the design of the schema). It was designed primarily for the more traditional meaning of syndication, large media outlets pushing media streams to affiliates, which includes program guide metadata. Think broadband TV providers digitally pushing content to an affiliate station. I really think it was designed to accomodate both. -Josh On 12/12/05, Richard Bennett-Forrest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joshua Kinberg could probably address the usage of media RSS bettter. Unfortunately, MRSS as a spec is not flourishing and I haven't seen all that much commitment to it even from Yahoo! I'm not sure if people are expecting Media RSS to suddenly pop up in the blogosphere wilderness or not. When it was announced, a lot of people who should probably know better, got excited about it pervading our space. However Media RSS wasn't designed to replace or embellish what we the public know and love as syndication and distribution (at least from what I read at the time, and from the design of the schema). It was designed primarily for the more traditional meaning of syndication, large media outlets pushing media streams to affiliates, which includes program guide metadata. Think broadband TV providers digitally pushing content to an affiliate station. So Media RSS may well not be flourishing, but we mustn't make that judgement on whether we've seen it pop up on peoples' web sites, because it wasn't designed for that. (again, based on what the schema looks like, and what was announced by Yahoo! at the time) Regards, Richard Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Most low income households are not online. Help bridge the digital divide today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/I258zB/QnQLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
